Project M Social Thread

[humble]

This is RockCrock on Masky's account... and all I gotta say is... ya'll byad

I looked it up, byad isn't a word. The only reference I could find was the acronym B.Y.A.D ("Buy you a drink"). So...spellcheck next time?

 

[AceSe3don]

We need a good Mario tornado in this game. I'd say Brawl-'s dair is good.

Naaah.
Luigi's Tornado on Mario, that would be awesome.

 

[Galt]

1) And part of the reason they are the best players is because they can, so their mastering of a skill improves their play- why make it arbritrary?
2) The game is undergoing radical changes daily, it's far too premature to discuss balancing already.

About your idea, I respectfully oppose it. I have no problem with giving characters tools to become better, however your idea is heavily flawed. Everyone would always use it because it's a free movement tool in the air that you can just jump out of. And think of Metaknight or Jigglypuff, and how they could abuse this.

1) The skill is arbitrary. Why be so proud of it?
2) Those are balance changes which were already made to Melee by Sakurai. That's why they're in the PAL version.

Also, the idea behind the airdash was to replace your second jump. You have an airdash instead.

 

[[TSON]]

In theory that sounds good but the last thing anyone wants if for this project to end up in the same place as BBrawl, Brawl-, or worse...Vbrawl....*pukes*

... Brawl- doesn't even have reduced landlag. Anywhere.

We need a good Mario tornado in this game. I'd say Brawl-'s dair is good.

If you hold A in minus you go the maximum height.

:/

 

[genkaku]

"Luigi's Tornado on Mario, that would be awesome"

Haha, that's all I need, a doc/mario hybrid with mobility. I hate fighting docs.

 

[Archangel]

1) The skill is arbitrary. Why be so proud of it?
2) Those are balance changes which were already made to Melee by Sakurai. That's why they're in the PAL version.

Also, the idea behind the airdash was to replace your second jump. You have an airdash instead.

If you want to call PAL Balanced go ahead. However it does nothing for the game except make Ganon suck more and moves peach into top tier....

Nerfing isn't the answer. It never has been and never will be.

and if L-canceling is such an arbitrary skill why do top level players still miss it? * remembers Kage saying "Nice L-cancel" at a misses L-cancel* LOL! that was funny

Btw your argument is valid but your coming from a very one sided angle.

1) The best players being especially spacies being able to do thing like THIS Is what makes them high level players and now scrubs that simply play a good character.
2) This is not Melee? Well your right this is Project Melee and the Idea is to recreate the game with minor tweaks and balances. That doesn't mean making it so easy a caveman can do it or Nerfing all the characters that were top or high tier because a good 85-90% of Melee players Play those characters so seeing them nerfed or seeing the technical game-play dumbed down so scrubs or grand parents can do them would just be an instant turn off.

 

[Wavebuster]

There are rare situational benefits to not L-canceling if your character winds up very low to the ground during aerial land lag, which will cause shield grabs to miss if they don't connect just as low. Similar to anti-spacing moves, most people aren't going to suddenly stop shield grabbing when they "see the opportunity."

Also, L-cancel timing is highly dependent on predicting your hitlag. The difference between a successful L-cancel and a missed one can be as simple as whether or not an attack made contact, blocked or not, or whether it missed by a few pixels or was dodged. You can't possibly react to every alternative instance of contact to compensate your L-cancel timing. The only reason it doesn't seem like this in Melee is because all the top tier have common trend of being SHFFL spammers with little landlag to begin with. Against characters with laggier aerials, punishing L-cancels that miss due to unforeseen hitlag variances becomes very significant.

 

[metaXzero]

The reason L-cancel is in Project M is to preserve the Melee feel and to be one less thing for people to complain about on "doesn't feel like Melee". It truly is a bizarre and strange mechanic in 64/Melee and adds nothing but arbitrary skill barriers, but most Melee players are used to it and like it. Hence, it's in the main set of Project M. I know I will probably use the ALR code though.

 

[ETWIST51294]

We went over this stupid L canceling crap a long *** time ago. The devs said l canceling will be in no matter what. Just stop responding to him.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

What's the difference between Project M and Brawl+ or Brawl-?

Like really, when you start messing with key components of melee and start changing around the characters, you have no right to refer to melee with the M.

What separates P:M from all the other projects is that P:M is supposed to be similar to melee. So what's all this talk about removing the L-cancel system? L-canceling is not only important but CRUCIAL to what melee is. Removing it would compromise the very thing the project's name stands for.

 

[GameWatching]

i will make fox from melee !
just give me time !

 

[ETWIST51294]

GameWatching, you are ****ing legendary

 

[Godbrother11225]

lol One of your testers left a download link of the beta on youtube. was he allowed to do that?

 

[ETWIST51294]

That really isn't good. Get that *****!!!!

Since I'm not a ****head I'm not gonna look for it.

 

[[TSON]]

lol One of your testers left a download link of the beta on youtube. was he allowed to do that?

No he isn't. PM me a link and we will see what we can do about that, I haven't seen a link on Youtube, but I've seen it on gamefaqs and IRC (which wasnt even a download link) so yeah. As long as it's not this, PM me lol

 

[AceSe3don]

No he isn't. PM me a link and we will see what we can do about that, I haven't seen a link on Youtube, but I've seen it on gamefaqs and IRC (which wasnt even a download link) so yeah. As long as it's not this, PM me lol

Lol that guy made me lol.
??? A post that begins with lol and ends with lol.
Heh.. See what I did? Lol

 

[GameWatching]

*fixing*

 

[AceSe3don]

*fixing*

I thought you said fox.
Falco was already made, so I advice you do fox now.

 

[GameWatching]

i mean REAL ones with the original model conformed !

btw,
someone also made a melee ganondorf !

and a mewtwo !

i will make melee fox just after this falco and yoshi story !

if you someone could find for me a ripped melee fox model that will help so much !

 

[Typhoon]

and a mewtwo !

I really wish they would to replace Lucario with him. =(

 

[GameWatching]

it replace lucario !
it's a full vertex !
also a PSA is available !


I NEED A MELEE FOX RIPPED MODEL !!!!

 

[XkaruX]

like this?

 

[I R MarF]

See, that makes no sense. Ganondorf wouldn't be any slower than he already is, by my argument. You just don't have to hit the button anymore. No L-cancel. Ganondorf is just fast. All the time. No more missing the L-cancel on the thunderdrop and screwing the one chance you had at a kill on that Falco player.

It does widen the skill gap. Completely artificially. It's not actually adding any competitive depth; it's just making it harder to actually utilize that depth, because some people just won't be able to do it well. Because we decided they shouldn't be able to. For no good reason.

People have this idea that "advanced" techniques are good, which I think is because Melee is great and Brawl (which was super-simplified) is terrible. But I don't need those things. If I could wavedash with a single button-press instead of buying a new controller every time I ruin another R-trigger, I'd do it in a second, and it wouldn't actually remove anything from the game. You'd still have to be able to use it well, which is the whole point. I, like my compatriot who posted a few pages back, have shaky hands, especially in tournament settings. I'm tired of blowing important wavedashes. I live with Xelic (the Melee Peach master) and we fight most every day, but man, if I were to go to a tournament tomorrow, I guarantee I'd airdodge myself into a hole. Twice.

Edit: Masky, that would be a little understandable I guess (although it's still a rather small element) if we were talking about Melee. But this is a new game. There are other, much simpler solutions which can be coded into landing lag and such, which don't require me to wreck my controllers.

Okay, I am done with the L-cancelling argument out of respect for the dev team but I have to ask: how did you break your R-button and why do I feel like one of the few people who still uses the same controller they used 9 years ago? Granted, the rubber on the control stick is starting to fall off due to incorrect thumb placement but breaking a button? Either you have the most poweful hands in the world, you practice L-cancelling in your sleep, or you use your whole weight into pressing each button (all impressive feats).

Then again, maybe its because I use the L-button for wavedash and R button for L-cancelling so I guess I don't use it for everything but idk.

 

[JCaesar]

There are rare situational benefits to not L-canceling if your character winds up very low to the ground during aerial land lag, which will cause shield grabs to miss if they don't connect just as low. Similar to anti-spacing moves, most people aren't going to suddenly stop shield grabbing when they "see the opportunity."

Also, L-cancel timing is highly dependent on predicting your hitlag. The difference between a successful L-cancel and a missed one can be as simple as whether or not an attack made contact, blocked or not, or whether it missed by a few pixels or was dodged. You can't possibly react to every alternative instance of contact to compensate your L-cancel timing. The only reason it doesn't seem like this in Melee is because all the top tier have common trend of being SHFFL spammers with little landlag to begin with. Against characters with laggier aerials, punishing L-cancels that miss due to unforeseen hitlag variances becomes very significant.

I was about to say, "There's no real objective argument you could make defending L-canceling, but it's important to the Melee feel so get used to it," but I stand corrected.

Now let's drop it and admire GameWatching's sick models!

 

[AceSe3don]

i mean REAL ones with the original model conformed !

btw,
someone also made a melee ganondorf !

and a mewtwo !

i will make melee fox just after this falco and yoshi story !

if you someone could find for me a ripped melee fox model that will help so much !

I see... I know about Mewtwo, I'm actually working on Project Mewtwo, along with DD, DS22, AGFP, and TSON, so five awesome hackers making an awesome project :D .

I really wish they would to replace Lucario with him. =(

Yeah I said we're working on that
And we're in the final stages.

it replace lucario !
it's a full vertex !
also a PSA is available !


I NEED A MELEE FOX RIPPED MODEL !!!!

Don't need to say it again xD

like this?

Awesome, give it to him! Maybe he can make a melee fox!
Dude this project's gonna be amazing with vertex hacks, but are they gonna use em?
Oh and an idea for the project is:
Alternate textures are dark characters, that would seriously be awesome, and epic for battles.
What I mean is that suppose a character has 6 diff textures, one of them would be a Dark Version of the character, which is.. Simply having all the textures black, not that hard is it?
Or maybe even Emerald Characters?
You guys should make even more powerful changes, it just adds up the awesomeness that is P:M!

 

[GameWatching]

like this?

PM me this please !!!

 

[libertyernie]

I personally am looking forward to a Melee style gameplay Toon Link.
On another note, this site seems to only be working about 50% of the time...

 

[The Good Doctor]

I personally am looking forward to a Melee style Toon Link.

I REALLY hope you turned that kid normal again....
****ing cartoon....

 

[AceSe3don]

I REALLY hope you turned that kid normal again....
****ing cartoon....

Why not try to port Young Link hack to Toon link? Might try that..
It SOMETIMES works though.

 

[Revven]

1) The skill is arbitrary. Why be so proud of it?

I'm just going to say you're not the first person to think that L-canceling is arbitrary tech skill. The argument all started back in late 2008-early 2009 for Brawl+ about L-canceling whether it should be auto or not. Guess what happened? It remained auto. Wanna know wha happened? It was still brought up as a problem to this day and I believe is one of the reasons why it didn't appeal to a very large group of the community. People just don't like things dumbed down for them just to appeal to the audience who likes that stuff. It's not Melee if it has "auto" anything and yes, that's a petty argument but if you want a better one look at Frag's post.

My point is, it's beating a dead horse that doesn't need to take place here since it's already been decided.

 

[Haseo1101]

We need to see more Marth...>_>

 

[Deleted member]

I can't wait to see a more tournament viable ness/yoshi. I need mah double jump cancels!!!

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Ness and Yoshi already have double jump cancels....


And for everyone saying to replace Lucario with Mewtwo, you obviously haven't read Wind Owl's posts about this. THEY ARE NOT REPLACING ANYONE. The only way Mewtwo and the like would EVER get in in an actual set is if there were a viable clone engine. Stop beating the horse. It's already dead and you're turning it into a pissed-off zombie.

 

[Deleted member]

I know the already have double jump cancels, I just want to be able to play them somewhat competitively without getting my *** kicked.

 

[RockCrock]

Those texture look amazing.

 

[Wind Owl]

I know the already have double jump cancels, I just want to be able to play them somewhat competitively without getting my *** kicked.

Lucas is a beast right now (his Nair actually needs to be nerfed, cough), and we have a few ideas for Ness. Don't worry, we know he sucked in Melee and we're trying to improve him without changing his fundamental gameplay too much.

 

[Juushichi]

I, for one would love to see Project: M Toon Link. Young Link was fine and cool, but I have to say I love Tink better than Yink. If you don't mind me asking (if you've started on him), what has been done for him/planned for him so far?

 

[Shadic]

He's kind of a hybrid of Young Link and Toon Link at the moment. He's got the old Nair Sex Kick, but is keeping his Toon Link Bair. Dair doesn't "stall&fall" now, either, but has the Fire-Spike.

 

[Galt]

I see that argument for unforeseen elements causing you to miss L-cancels, and it *almost* makes sense. It's close. But consider this: what you do after an L-cancel requires timing, too. So in the same way that I might miss an L-cancel because of a shield angle, I might also try to shine too early with Fox and miss that, even if the d-air auto-cancels. There are multiple timings involved. Removing L-canceling wouldn't remove the element of precise timing.

And that argument is still an attempt to make it sound like hitting every L-cancel is some impossible feat which gives you automatic follow-ups because you're just that technical. Most solid players hit nearly every L-cancel. I do. Lots of people do. It's not that difficult if you've been playing the game competitively for the last 5 years. But L-cancels alone don't make aggression/approaching safe. Fox has the fastest attack sequences in the game, next to Peach's float-cancels, and do you see Fox and Peach playing all-out aggro? No. They camp more than most any other character in the game, for other reasons as well. But even L-cancels don't guarantee a follow-up, and they don't make your approach safe--just as safe as it can be. You still have to space well/perfectly, or you'll get shield-grabbed.

L-canceling consistently doesn't make anyone a pro. It's not really even part of it. It's assumed. Pros are great because of their spacing abilities, far more than because of their technical proficiency. The best characters in the game are fast and can space better than the others. What happens when you have a character who can space but isn't fast? You get Ganondorf. What happens when you have a fast character who can't space? You get Pikachu (although he's tiny and has powerful attacks so he cheats a little).

Point is, it's a nice try. There's some merit to the argument. But it isn't enough.

I'd argue it somewhere else if there were a better place for it, and if I weren't getting bored because it doesn't really concern me because I'll never play Project M anyway because my Wii is broken and I'll never have any motivation to get it fixed. But people started to give credit to that argument, and therefore to think there was a real justification for L-canceling. But there isn't.

 

[GameWatching]

give me time plz !