Project M Social Thread

[Ulevo]

hmmm let's see.....64 bair, brawl bair or MELEE bair...

i understand we are keeping brawl moves that are superior to melee's version but...that should only apply if the Melee move was completely useless or if the Brawl move is of better use

i don't think that applies to Pika's Bair......Melee bair wasn't useless and imo brawl bair isn't of much use.

and i don't think it is suited to look into 64 unless both the melee and brawl version of a move are completely terrible (which is not the case here)

at this rate there is gonna be way too many unnecessary animation flip flops

Brawl bair is of huge use. It's one of his safest aerials.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Melee bair is more useful than bralw bair but 64 bair ***** both of them if it has the same hitbox.

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

My thoughts on the Marth type Neutral B move is I personally think it should stay how it is. I know its supposed to be like melee but unless Dancing blade is gonna give enough vertical and horizontal to recover I wouldn't really suggest changing it. Also not to mention it sort of fits Marths play style due to I believe hes supposed to be trained in the art of Fencing. Also not to mention his Neutral B is imo more useful or has better uses than the melee one did.

Also I knoticed some Grab-releasing from the stream yesterday please for the love of god tell me this is not going to be in P:M.

I also watched a Link fight is there going to be any other fixes to him besides his Gale boomerang effect. I mean his recovery looks terible without wallgrappling (since its not possible yet) secondly I noticed that his AirUPB to recover I noticed that unlike in B+ it doesn't really catch them in it. I think primarly the High grav really screws with his recovery options. So I know the answer will probably be no but it would be the closest to wall tethering we could get would be option to shoot the clawshot out of his Air UPB. This is in BBrawl I know but I think it would help Link a ton. again its just a suggestion.

Other than that Keep up the good work guys.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Marths melee neutral was a little more useful than the brawl one. Melee neutral b uses: edgeguarding, combos sometimes, brawl uses: recovery... and >_>.

But if they can somehow get roy in in then I think marth should get the brawl version while roy should get the melee version to seperate them a bit.

 

[ruhtraeel]

This is being idealistic, but if only we could get the best players of each melee character to play the game, it would help so much...

 

[crazycrackers]

If you get hit by a fully charged Bowser fsmash, I think you deserve to die.

It was just a power test. The fact still remains it kills at like 30%.

EDIT: to add to my list of ICs shenanigans:

4. There was a certain point in the live stream as well, where Popo starting freezing Nana with his own blizzard or maybe it was vice-versa XDDDD.

5. There was also another point where Nana spawned on the ground and Popo spawned on a platform above her lmao.

ICs ftw.

 

[Ulevo]

I keep seeing people complain about Bowser's forward smash, and I really fail to see the issue.

We have characters like Jigglypuff who have a better combo game, better recovery, can't be combo'd, better mobility, smaller hurt box, and they can kill with Rest on some characters at like what, 0%? Not to mention Jiggs can combo in to Rest.

Then there's Bowser, with his stand alone forward smash that, if you just so happen to be not paying attention and walk in to, will kill you. It can't be combo'd in to from what I can see.

People forget what Bowser has been like in the past two games. He's been low tier and mid tier respectively, and for very obvious reasons. Buffs like this are kinda necessary to keep him tangoing with Melee Marth of all characters. So why the cry for balance?

 

[CountKaiser]

I heard people complaining about G&W's nair more in that stream.

I'm told that the nair G&W has in P:M is similar, if not the same, as the one he had in Melee. Is this true?

 

[JCaesar]

I like when people complain about obvious bugs (like ICs) or holdovers from B+ that will obviously be changed when we Meleefy everyone (like Bowser's fsmash) or obvious balance issues (even though we've stated many times that we haven't attempted to balance the game yet) and freak out about them, asking if they will be in the final P:M release. It is most amusing.

 

[StriCNYN3]

Just wondering since I didn't really see much of the streams, are subtle tricks like Isai shield dropping, shield toggling and double wall jumping gonna make a return? That'd be cool. Anyway good job guys.

 

[TL?]

You guys should keep pika's brawl back air animation. Most custom animations look awkward. It's probably a good idea not to replace what is already fine.

 

[Plum]

I would take SS64 Pika over any other iteration of Pika ANY day.
Especially Pika's SS64 Bair. If a better animation can be used/created for it then even better.
I would consider SS64 Pika to be one of the most iconic non-Melee Smash characters out there, and I really like the fact that some of that moveset is going to be used.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

64 Pika's bair, on Brawl Pika, in Melee physics?

Oh yeah, that's not going to be ******** good at all.

 

[CrypTik]

I played Project M yesterday and let me tell you it is hella fun. It feels alot like melee which I love and it has a new look to it. You guys are doing a great job. =)

 

[Plum]

64 Pika's bair, on Brawl Pika, in Melee physics?

Oh yeah, that's not going to be ******** good at all.

Well think about the other ******** good things in Melee.
The top tiers in Melee were doing ******** things, and the way I see it you have to be able to do ******** things to compete with them as well.

I think Pika's SSB64 Bair would be really good in B+ where characters aren't at the same level as Melee characters, but now consider the fact that Pika will have to be going up against Melee Fox, Falco, Sheik, Jiggs, Falcon, Peach, Ganon, and Marth. You basically need to be doing something stupid to go up against a group of characters like that who all have something stupid good about them.

There's a totally different level of balance that is going to be achieved here for low tiers to be able to actually compete against the high tiers. The other Brawl mods can go about their balance in ways completely different because it doesn't have to preserve the same level of wtfrape that the top tiers have. You can imagine how different BBrawl or B+ would be if they kept Meta Knight exactly as is and buffed the other characters to his level. P:M is basically going to be similar to that. You have characters who are just clearly better than the rest of the cast and you can't make them worse, so other characters need to have something that make them viable.

 

[Shell]

Just wondering since I didn't really see much of the streams, are subtle tricks like Isai shield dropping, shield toggling and double wall jumping gonna make a return? That'd be cool. Anyway good job guys.

Double wall jumping is back, I'm not sure about the other two but we will certainly do our best.

 

[GwJ]

What's double wall jumping? Is that being able to wall jump twice off the same wall?

 

[Gardevior]

What's double wall jumping? Is that being able to wall jump twice off the same wall?

Exactly. Most notable on stages like Mushroom Kingdom II.

 

[Shell]

Double wall jumping is sometimes referred to as "Scar Jumping."

It consists of wall jumping off the same wall multiple times without landing.

 

[D1]

In regular Melee everyone could moonwalk. Could everyone moonwalk in this?

Also if you guys need anyone to do testing, I have a lot of free time on my hands. Hit me with a pm if you do.

 

[StriCNYN3]

Ok, that's cool to know. It won't really matter if the two don't make it, but here's hoping you guys can bring back shield toggling, since it can help boost certain character's edge guarding game.

 

[Shell]

Eventually everyone should be able to Moonwalk. Sonic's moonwalk is pretty crazy.

We're slowly letting in more Melee vets, so we will keep you in mind.

 

[theunabletable]

Pika is going to have SSB64 BAir? That's friggin ******.

And about Marth's shield breaker. Couldn't you just give him a Melee shield breaker animation, but still allow it to do a ton of damage to shields? I think that'd be pretty cool.

 

[vectorace]

And about Marth's shield breaker. Couldn't you just give him a Melee shield breaker animation, but still allow it to do a ton of damage to shields? I think that'd be pretty cool.

wouldnt that be a lil broken an easy to hit with attack that does a ton of dmg if shielded and has good knockback....just sayin

 

[Rudra]

Easy to hit with? The most I've seen it used for was as an edgeguarding tool in Melee. If it is too powerful then maybe the shield damage it does could be reduced, but for now I agree that it should be restored to Melee's swinging style rather than a stab unless the latter offers something that makes it better than the former.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Uh, in case you guys didn't know, Marth's shield breaker did ridiculous amounts of shield damage in melee too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdYucDAgMvU&feature=related#t=3m

An uncharged shield breaker destroys a little over half of a full shield. And yet it was by no means broken in melee.


Melee shield breaker was superior to brawl shield breaker in almost every possible way. It had a lower angle, a larger hitbox (it's like having an f-smash in the air!), faster startup, longer duration, and less endlag. It's a move that should definitely be reverted back to melee form.

 

[I R MarF]

Uh, in case you guys didn't know, Marth's shield breaker did ridiculous amounts of shield damage in melee too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdYucDAgMvU&feature=related#t=3m

An uncharged shield breaker destroys a little over half of a full shield. And yet it was by no means broken in melee.


Melee shield breaker was superior to brawl shield breaker in almost every possible way. It had a lower angle, a larger hitbox (it's like having an f-smash in the air!), faster startup, longer duration, and less endlag. It's a move that should definitely be reverted back to melee form.

^^This.

It won't be melee Marth if he doesn't have this.

Also, in the stream I saw the other day I noticed Captain Falcon was insanely harder to KO. I mean, I know that he is arguably one of the most difficult chars to kill vertically, but when Marth's utilt didn't do the job at 130 percent (maybe more, can't remeber clearly)... you know something is up. No pun intended btw.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Marth's uptilt never killed Falcon at 130% <_<

 

[kaizo13]

nice use of Dancing blade DS ^^

dunno why most Marth mains avoid using it.....if done correctly, it can be used to shield pressure and to throw their shielding time off..

oh...and i love that dancing blade spike xD

 

[Shadic]

You guys should keep pika's brawl back air animation. Most custom animations look awkward. It's probably a good idea not to replace what is already fine.

You underestimate the talent of our animators. Camelot made an AMAZING rapid jab for Link, as an example.

 

[Dan_X]

Wow DarkSonic, awesome Marth!! That's nuts.

 

[TL?]

You underestimate the talent of our animators. Camelot made an AMAZING rapid jab for Link, as an example.

I saw the bair on a stream. Compared to his brawl back air it looks very awkward. Pika's brawl or melee back air were fine anyways. I know it sounds good in theory to bring back old moves but people need to realize homebrew hacked animations are rarely as good as ones done by professional game animators. And yes, the link jab is an example of the few times it works good. If you can make a pika bair with that quality then it would be fine.

 

[Shadic]

We've already explained the reason of the shortcomings behind Pikachu's back air. I'd be surprised if it wasn't changed before release.

 

[ValTroX]

IMHO, Pika's 64 Bair is better than all other versions, but you guys do what you think is appropriate.

 

[humble]

I'm interested to see how characters like Pit and lucario play, who in vBrawl always felt a bit too floaty; with melee gravity, I'm hoping to see major ****.

Just a suggestion, but could you make it so Pit can shield/dodge out of arrow charge? +1 idea for instant rejection

 

[JCaesar]

Pit's arrows need some kind of overhaul anyway. They are only good for camping which isn't really what we're going for.

 

[Sora-kun]

ugh everyone ignored this e.e

ok what if you programmed z-airs to react to impacting a wall like falcon's kick <_<

but instead of jumping make it go into the hanging animation <_<

would this work or no?

 

[shanus]

ugh everyone ignored this e.e

ok what if you programmed z-airs to react to impacting a wall like falcon's kick <_<

but instead of jumping make it go into the hanging animation <_<

would this work or no?

if i was able to detect wall collisions with a zair, I would program it correctly.

But I can't.



Also, guys.


Regarding bug reports:

When we have streams and characters like ICs bug out, we know. All the bugs we have we know about, and if they aren't documented, we document them. You don't need to post them here.

 

[I R MarF]

Marth's uptilt never killed Falcon at 130% <_<

You are probably right, but like i said i am a little fuzzy on the details, 130 was the minimum (I do recall Falcon lasting until 212%!)... and a non tipped utilt would have definitely done the job at over 130-150% near the edge in most cases.

 

[Dan_X]

I saw the bair on a stream. Compared to his brawl back air it looks very awkward. Pika's brawl or melee back air were fine anyways. I know it sounds good in theory to bring back old moves but people need to realize homebrew hacked animations are rarely as good as ones done by professional game animators. And yes, the link jab is an example of the few times it works good. If you can make a pika bair with that quality then it would be fine.

Again, Pika's current Bair is borrowed from another character, I think it was Samus, but I could be wrong. It's mentioned earlier within the past few pages.

Our animators have created really nice looking animations-- from scratch. They don't have to be professional to be skillful at something. Heck, professionality holds little weight here. I mean, look what the professional world gave us with Brawl. That's right, a garbage heap. Those professional coders coded stuff like random tripping, and made a super defensive based game that sucks. just sayin.

I'm sure Pika's bair will have a custom animation in time. Pikachu's 64 Bair is definitely the way to go. Maybe some of you forget 64?? However, he was top tier. We figured that because Pika isn't Melee Fox, Falco, etc, status we'd give Pika some of his elements from 64.

kirby's 64 Nair is awesome btw, and the animation looks nice. :D