Project M Social Thread

[Rudra]

Very good discovery:

IC-Basic 20003 = Previous Action ID (In scalar)

This means I can program in crouch canceling now.

IC-Basic 20003 = Previous Action ID (In scalar)

This means I can program in crouch canceling now.

I can program in crouch canceling now.

Awesome work Shanus! So will we be seeing a (near) perfect replicate of Melee styled CCing or do you have plans on modifying its effectiveness?

Either way, I'm pretty hyped for it. Now its only landing detection that needs to be dealt with! =D

Spoiler

I'd love to see this in action on a stream in the near future!

 

[camelot]

Very good discovery:

IC-Basic 20003 = Previous Action ID (In scalar)

This means I can program in crouch canceling now.

Scalar...?

Actions are values, though, not scalar. Does that mean if I wanted something like "if previous action was 11A" I'd do the decimal equivalent, which would be 282?

Also, this discovery could be useful in improving the moonwalk.

 

[I R MarF]

So does Marth have the longest non-tether grab again or is he beaten by DDD?

 

[camelot]

I think Marth is beaten out by Dedede and Charizard, as far as non-tether grabs go.

 

[Gardevior]

Olimar count?

 

[camelot]

Uhhh... no.

 

[humble]

Awesome news about CC!

What is the buff to sonics homing attack?

And what did B+ do to kirby's throw game?

 

[Rikana]

I thought Charizard has a longer grab range than DDD.

So the list up to date.. correct me if I'm wrong.

What's missing:
-crouch canceling (soon to be coded from discovery?)
-meteor canceling
-landing detection

Impossible at the moment:
-wall grapples
-ledge invulnerability from rolling

By the way, are you guys going to make item pickup/catching like Melee's? I've asked this a few times but didn't really get an answer. If not, it would be better to make item pickup/catching frames tighter since its quite easy to perform at the moment.

 

[humble]

Just curious, are you guys going to bring back wobbling for ICs?

With the increased gravity, what happens to already flubby characters like D3?

Has the overall hitstun been changed?I believe melee had less, right?

 

[GP&B]

Yeah, item pickup and catch opportunities exist in way too many places and are way too easy to perform in the first place. It shouldn't be difficult to at least get rid of valid opportunities, right?

 

[humble]

Items must have something like a catch box right? That differeniates when you are at hitting range or pickup range, does such a thing exist?

 

[GwJ]

What exactly is landing detection?

 

[Rikana]

It literally is what you read it as - at which point the game detects your landing. In Brawl, as soon as the foot reaches the ground its considered a land, thus, the perfect wavedashes and easy multishines. In Melee, landing detection is by the character's ankles. Its why Ganon can dAir through the platform in Melee.

 

[JCaesar]

Landing detection is the biggest thing holding us back right now.

 

[stingers]

i'm guessing theres not just a magical landing detection value or whatever? lol well have fun with that

 

[Dan_X]

I don't see why catching properties need to be changed, to be honest. It balances items out, a bit. It's not exactly over-the-top difficult to catch Diddy's nannerz, or Peach's turnips. Why would we want it to be? The character with the item in hand is already at an advantage anyway as they choose when to throw said item, you have to read this accordingly and catch it.

I think one of the worst parts of Melee was how difficult it was to catch items. Maybe it's just me, but that's another thing I think Brawl got right.

 

[humble]

Ghetto landing detection idea; shrink peoples hurtboxes to their ankles. Would cause a lot of issues though with attacks like marth's dtilt, depends how important it is.

 

[GHNeko]

Why even bother with something like that in the first place? Lol.

 

[Plum]

Hopefully landing detection comes eventually

The game just can't feel exactly "Melee" without it.

Oh and about grab range for those who want to know...

DDD is the longest non tether grab range. It's barely shorter than Ivysaur's grab range... I love having a visibly disjointed grab :D

Marth doesn't have too crazy of a grab range. He's behind Squirtle, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Charizard and DDD (in that order too).

 

[humble]

I assume in brawl the way it works is that as soon as a hurtbox touches the ground, it makes you land. You'd have to rewrite how it works if that's the case, and somehow trick the system. Perhaps create two stage depths; the top, which is just the normal stage, and a psuedo layer beneath, and refer the game to check if hurtboxes touch that layer, but the actual ground is higher.

 

[humble]

Why even bother with something like that in the first place? Lol.

Because people care about it alot? You could adjust attacks that hit too low.

 

[I R MarF]

Hopefully landing detection comes eventually

The game just can't feel exactly "Melee" without it.

Oh and about grab range for those who want to know...

DDD is the longest non tether grab range. It's barely shorter than Ivysaur's grab range... I love having a visibly disjointed grab :D

Marth doesn't have too crazy of a grab range. He's behind Squirtle, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Charizard and DDD (in that order too).

Hmm... what happened to top tiers remaining unchanged from their Melee counterparts? I guess DK, Charizard, and D3 have rights because they are heavyweights and have noticeably long reaches... but Zelda... SQUIRTLE!?? Marth should be at least tied for 4th/3rd at the very least. That's an insult to his status that melee vets and a 1 foot turtle are higher than him.

Honestly, Falco get's his old shine back but Marth doesn't get his grab? malark I declare. lol

 

[JCaesar]

Marth did get his grab range back, don't worry. I dunno where he is on that list but I think he falls somewhere around Zelda's grab range now, if not a little more.

 

[GP&B]

I don't see why catching properties need to be changed, to be honest. It balances items out, a bit. It's not exactly over-the-top difficult to catch Diddy's nannerz, or Peach's turnips. Why would we want it to be? The character with the item in hand is already at an advantage anyway as they choose when to throw said item, you have to read this accordingly and catch it.

I think one of the worst parts of Melee was how difficult it was to catch items. Maybe it's just me, but that's another thing I think Brawl got right.

Perhaps not the actual distance at which items can be caught should be modified, but more so when you can pick up items. I hate performing a dash attack and then catching an item. I've had that happen so many times. If anything, this should be removed to give better control over when you actually want to snatch items while leaving it still relatively easier to do.

 

[shanus]

i do want to nerf dash attack item pickup

 

[Rikana]

^^^^^

Yessss Shanus. I like what I'm hearing. But to be honest, I don't like the fact that dash attacks can pick up items. What do you have in mind for a nerf?

 

[Deleted member]

I don't see why catching properties need to be changed, to be honest. It balances items out, a bit. It's not exactly over-the-top difficult to catch Diddy's nannerz, or Peach's turnips. Why would we want it to be? The character with the item in hand is already at an advantage anyway as they choose when to throw said item, you have to read this accordingly and catch it.

I think one of the worst parts of Melee was how difficult it was to catch items. Maybe it's just me, but that's another thing I think Brawl got right.

Actually, when say Peach, Link, or Y. Link had an item in hand you are supposed to approach them because they have trade offs. They cannot do tilts, grab, smash, or aerials, so having an item in hand is both advantageous and disadvantageous (especially since peach cannot dsmash with a turnip in hand).

Diddy's bananas are the craziest thing though because he gets to control a section of the stage and without any disadvantages of holding an item.

I could see Diddy still being very good without dash attack picking up bananas due to how much bananas would control the ground around him coupled with him busting a nut every half a second, but meh. Character balance comes later..

 

[L/A/W]

this is looking great guys
important question: will falcons scarf be removed?

 

[Plum]

I don't think it would be that big of a loss if dash attacks no longer grabbed items considering characters who use items as a large part of their game can wavedash to pick up items and they have AGT which ***** hard.

 

[ValTroX]

Lowering the item grab distance is ok(overall, not just dash attacks), but completely removing it would be weird for Diddy(on dash attacks), sure, he has has AGT and WD now, but it just ain't Diddy. I guess I should forget about these things for now.

I'm just glad that Shanus discovered something on CC, it's one of the most important codes. Landing detection is the most important one left to get.

Also, it's been a while since I asked this, but I need to know, has there been any development on the jab resets? last I heard Shanus had a code that was % based, not KB based, so I would like to know how this is going

 

[Sneak8288]

i just dont see agt ****** as hard as people make it out to ****

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Is landing detection really that important?

Sacrificing a smoother, more sensible, and all around better looking landing for the sole purpose of emulating Melee seems a bit over the top.

Is their some major problem arising with characters landing on their feet instead of their shins, or is the timing just slightly different?

 

[ValTroX]

@L/A/W:
If it's so important for you, just get this texture
http://kc-mm.com/?p=2605
Edit:
@Tatsu:
The problem is that it seems that it's too easy to waveshine or just wavedash in general with the landing detection as it is now
EditEdit: Also, you could do some attacks lower due to the detection being a little higher

 

[[TSON]]

Sacrificing a smoother, more sensible, and all around better looking landing for the sole purpose of emulating Melee seems a bit over the top.

Is their some major problem arising with characters landing on their feet instead of their shins, or is the timing just slightly different?

The timing varies so much per character that it's impossible to average. And idk what you mean by sensible since some characters land before they even touch the ground.

 

[Dark Sonic]

The timing is different for L-cancels and wavedashes, characters are unable to hit as low with their aerials (preventing characters from attacking through platforms when they could previously), transitioning onto platforms is different both visually and timing-wise, and land canceled projectiles can't shoot as low (this is a big one for Falco and Samus players.)

This of course not mentioning things that will have to be adjusted, such as autocancel windows or aerial endlag in general (to ensure that characters can still double aerial or second jump after an aerial, ect,ect.), or adjusting jumps to allow characters to land/waveland on platforms with similar timing to melee, ect, ect.

Landing detection is kind of a big deal. The game is workable without it, but it's one of the nuances that melee players really can feel.

 

[ValTroX]

Dark Sonic explained it too well xD, I have completely forgotten about Falco SHFF Lasers and Samus missiles, shame on me

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I suppose it is a bit more important then I was giving it credit for.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

 

[kaizo13]

theres something that's been in the back of my mind since this project started.....and i'm not sure how to explain it (but im'a try anyways)

ok sooo... in melee, after getting hit a couple of times (i think with the same move ) you seem to just break out of hitstun. (i have no idea what it is or if it even exists) but i think the absence of it is what made juggling alot easier in Brawl+ compared to Melee

example: Marth is u-tilting falco, then falco breaks out of hitstun as soon as the 3rd u-tilt hits him, keeping the knockback momentum but being able to counter attack thus Marth getting....punished?

well, i tried....anyone have a clue what i'm talking about?


EDIT: it might have something to do with low percentages or KB but....idk

 

[Starscream]

^ I actually brought that up a while back. Had a hard time explaining it too. Don't remember if I got a definitive answer on it. Also, has any progress been made on keeping your knockback momentum when teching?

 

[I R MarF]

Marth did get his grab range back, don't worry. I dunno where he is on that list but I think he falls somewhere around Zelda's grab range now, if not a little more.

YESZ!

So that would probably put Marth at 3rd/ tied for 3rd... but as long as he isn't beneath any Melee vets who were established as having shorter grab ranges than him in SSBM I can't complain.