Project M Social Thread

[shanus]

Lowering the item grab distance is ok(overall, not just dash attacks), but completely removing it would be weird for Diddy(on dash attacks), sure, he has has AGT and WD now, but it just ain't Diddy. I guess I should forget about these things for now.

I'm just glad that Shanus discovered something on CC, it's one of the most important codes. Landing detection is the most important one left to get.

Also, it's been a while since I asked this, but I need to know, has there been any development on the jab resets? last I heard Shanus had a code that was % based, not KB based, so I would like to know how this is going

Well the jab reset code was a mixture of both. However, if the code in my head works for CCing, I am going to rebuild the jab reset code to be a lot more elegant.

 

[jalued]

YESZ!

So that would probably put Marth at 3rd/ tied for 3rd... but as long as he isn't beneath any Melee vets who were established as having shorter grab ranges than him in SSBM I can't complain.

plus charizard's grab range actually makes sense DDD's is just stupid

 

[JCaesar]

Actually, when say Peach, Link, or Y. Link had an item in hand you are supposed to approach them because they have trade offs. They cannot do tilts, grab, smash, or aerials, so having an item in hand is both advantageous and disadvantageous (especially since peach cannot dsmash with a turnip in hand).

Peach can do aerials with an item in hand, during float. So can ROB, during up-B. And if you hold A when you pick up an item, everyone can do smashes with an item in hand with the C-stick (maybe aerials too, I'm not really sure).

Diddy's bananas are the craziest thing though because he gets to control a section of the stage and without any disadvantages of holding an item.

Wavedashing picking up items nerfs that quite a bit, besides the fact that a banana laying on the ground is a hell of a lot less useful than a banana in hand.

i just dont see agt ****** as hard as people make it out to ****

Perhaps, but more options is never a bad thing. It certainly isn't useless regardless.

 

[Kix]

Good news about CC!

I think FLUDD should be scrapped and his Melee Down B returned.

I think FLUDD would create a more interesting metagame if done right, and I really want to see how it can be implemented, although I have an intuition about it needing to have some sort of change to keep up with Melee-play (which could be wrong).

I do, however, feel that the Melee Down B could be buffed to have had good and interesting uses (such as with wind hitboxes and the like). Just because it was a poor attack in Melee doesn't mean it couldn't be interesting and useful. FLUDD just seems like it should be better for Mario's game in the end.

Honestly in all the times I've played Mario:M so far, I don't think I've ever touched his down-B. In my head, I'm playing Doc, so it never even crosses my mind.

Please try to implement it. I have a feeling that the start up and or cool down at least is too slow for the gameplay style of Melee (based on watching matches), but would be happy to be proven otherwise. I don't think it would be a bad thing to give Mario more and better tools, so I'd like to see how this will work out.

Still not sure if you guys got the cape reversing the opponent while in shield and forcing a flip as a counter to some things, like in Melee. The reversing opponent is good for his offense because of the removing the threat of them shield grabbing and leading to a mindgame.

 

[shanus]

well i wrote CCing this morning, waiting for someone to wake up and test it in the PMBR. I'll let you all know how it goes

 

[Archangel]

****!!! good news shanus. and yeah about the magnetic gloves? does he have em? Mario that is.

 

[GwJ]

I'm guessing that refers to his grab range?

 

[kaizo13]

^ no, to his up b ledge grab range

@my last post -wow, only 1 person knew what i was talking about? you guys sure you know what Melee is? o-O


EDIT: then again, i coulda just been ignored w/e

 

[GwJ]

I joined the competitive scene a few months after brawl came out.

 

[shanus]

CCing works, boo yah

 

[kaizo13]

how exactly does it work for crawlers? ...just like any other?

idk, i just can't picture Snake CC'ing in my head (not saying he shouldn't be able to thou)
anyways good work Mr. Shanus

 

[Kix]

Yeah-hahaha!!

 

[shanus]

Currently I allow it for crawling (but allow it for a crawler who is crouched), but I might change it to not allow it. Undecided.

 

[kaizo13]

yea that's a tough one cuz, not giving everyone CC'ing doesn't seem right, but also crawlers with CCing is kinda weird (wouldn't they be able to crawl/move while CCing??)

 

[Dark Sonic]

crawling and crouching are separate actions

 

[Archangel]

I agree and not giving snake a CC or wario or anyone else for that matter would make as much sense as not giving L - cancels to characters with wings. If anything it shouldn't be given to characters that have this new super armor effect.....aside from that everyone should have one.

 

[shanus]

I agree and not giving snake a CC or wario or anyone else for that matter would make as much sense as not giving L - cancels to characters with wings. If anything it shouldn't be given to characters that have this new super armor effect.....aside from that everyone should have one.

your missing the point. either that or im confused, but can't snake initiate a crouch vs crawling?

 

[CountKaiser]

I'm sure he can.

Crawling is a separate action from crouching, so it shouldn't be hard to put CC on only the crouch.

 

[Archangel]

your missing the point. either that or im confused, but can't snake initiate a crouch vs crawling?

lol forget it. Maybe you should just create Crawl Canceling for crawlers


I'm just wondering why you would remove CCing for people that can crawl? What is the reason for that?

 

[shanus]

Currently, I have it on both cc and crawl. But its as simple as altering one number on the code to not include crawling.



You guys don't realize that people who can crawl also have a crouch action!! That means that if I do remove CC during crawl, that they could still CC via crouch, but just not via their crawl.... reading comprehension is hard!

 

[Rikana]

At least they'd still need to have enough reflex to instantly go into crouch mode. So, I'd say only let Crouch animation have CC. How well is CC working since Brawl's CC doesn't exist?

 

[Archangel]

Currently, I have it on both cc and crawl. But its as simple as altering one number on the code to not include crawling.



You guys don't realize that people who can crawl also have a crouch action!! That means that if I do remove CC during crawl, that they could still CC via crouch, but just not via their crawl.... reading comprehension is hard!

lol I think we read that you were removing ccing from character that could crawl all together lol. sorry.

in that case take it out.

 

[shanus]

At least they'd still need to have enough reflex to instantly go into crouch mode. So, I'd say only let Crouch animation have CC. How well is CC working since Brawl's CC doesn't exist?

i dunno how well its working since i haven't personally tested it yet, but from i am hearing, you do move a bit after each hit so it is preserving some knockback each time which is good. Concurrently, I chose an arbitrary knockback velocity to set as a CC-cap, so I'm not sure if I chose too high or too low, or what. So basically, it's a probably decent but can definitely be more refined like many other first gen codes?

 

[jalued]

Crouch canceling codes

can we possibly get a video of the code in action? amazing work as always

 

[shanus]

can we possibly get a video of the code in action? amazing work as always

if it works alright, i'm sure it'll be in some stream this weekend

 

[jalued]

if it works alright, i'm sure it'll be in some stream this weekend

awesome!

Spoiler

dam, work this weekend :'(

 

[TLMSheikant]

I cant believe it. I thought crouch canceling would be almost impossible to recode. Surprise! Shanus pulled through. good job. Now the thing I think is impossible is the tether on walls.

 

[GP&B]

I felt that CCing has always been possible to code, just not very easy. However, wall grappling still looks extremely difficult and always has. You're talking about modifying how a system works into something completely different. You're bound to run into a million different things we never knew about the current tether in the process of changing it to the grapple. Same deal with landing detection although that one looks a bit more feasible to do.

 

[shanus]

Well, I found out my first bug with it, but it shouldn't be too challenging to eliminate

 

[grim mouser]

Cool, more techs added. At this rate landing detection should be back to Melee style before we know it. (Hopefully.)

 

[I R MarF]

I cant believe it. I thought crouch canceling would be almost impossible to recode. Surprise! Shanus pulled through. good job. Now the thing I think is impossible is the tether on walls.

No wall tethers? That may hurt characters like Link and Samus's game.

I am no modder, but is it possible to create additional "hidden" ledges implemented on the walls of stages that only respond to tethers? This doesn't seem possible, and if it is, it may be extremely time consuming to do on every stage. But I'm just wondering.

Also, speaking of Samus, is she keeping her SWD?

 

[camelot]

Yes, Samus has already gotten SWD back.

 

[vectorace]

cant wait for the stream...

just sayin

 

[JCaesar]

I can confirm that there will be a stream Saturday night, starting sometime around 7pm EST. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[humble]

I imagine WDing only makes grab release punishment easier, on characters like Ness/Lucas/Wario, is this hurting them? Grab>Release>WD>Grab

Plus jump cancelled grabs...

 

[Deleted member]

Peach can do aerials with an item in hand, during float. So can ROB, during up-B. And if you hold A when you pick up an item, everyone can do smashes with an item in hand with the C-stick (maybe aerials too, I'm not really sure).

That's all true, but the difficulty of executing certain moves with an item is still there.

Wavedashing picking up items nerfs that quite a bit, besides the fact that a banana laying on the ground is a hell of a lot less useful than a banana in hand.

=)

Have you guys thought about giving larger characters who were easy to edgeguard (Ganon, Bowser, DDD, DK, Charizard and such) longer ledge grab ranges to make up for their sizes and recoveries?

It'd be a way to moderately balance recoveries. Makes sense too.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I imagine WDing only makes grab release punishment easier, on characters like Ness/Lucas/Wario, is this hurting them? Grab>Release>WD>Grab

Plus jump cancelled grabs...

grab releases have been gone since...forever.

 

[I R MarF]

That's all true, but the difficulty of executing certain moves with an item is still there.



=)

Have you guys thought about giving larger characters who were easy to edgeguard (Ganon, Bowser, DDD, DK, Charizard and such) longer ledge grab ranges to make up for their sizes and recoveries?

It'd be a way to moderately balance recoveries. Makes sense too.

D3 does not have a bad recovery; he has extra puff jumps and arguably the highest verticle recovery in the game (that isn't a flying move). IMO, he has the least amount of weaknesses of all of the heavyweights excluding Snake... however, due to the physics change allowing faster falling, Sakurai's penguin may drop like rock, thus, naturally balancing his ludicrous recovery abilities, so until I have played P:M I won't complain about his obvious advantages compared to other heavyweights.

Charizard, IMO, just needs his extra jumps buffed and he is fixed.

As for DK and Bowser (and Ganondorf aswell)... they still exist in a time where the belief was: light characaters=easy to knock off=good recovery heavy characters=hard to knock off=bad recovery and IMO need buffing of some kind whether it be their side b's giving diagonal height or their B ups travel farther.

That doesn't say your idea is bad, in fact, it is a very good idea that if done right could help chars with poor recoveries but I think it'd be more suitable for SSBM SSB64 heavyweights who are finding themselves with decent horizontal recoveries but poor vertical ones.

In fact, there are very few characters that were introduced in brawl that have poorer recoveries... and most of those "poorer" ones were tethers.

 

[Deleted member]

I know DDD doesn't have a bad recovery. It's just another example of a large character frame making their general game difficult. It's justified in DDD's case not to do such a buff.

However, it seems larger characters are getting good grab ranges (DDD, Zard, DK, Bowser) as nice buffs.

 

[kaizo13]

umm....is that JCJ (jump cancel jab) Beta Neko is messing with going to be included in this?

it seems like a very interesting tech and could possibly introduce many new combo starter options