Predictions for Tier List v4 (Includes overview of entire cast)

[Browny]

If this character was always at his peak strength, he'd definitely be high tier. However, seeing as he's most powerful when he's about to die, and otherwise pretty underwhelming, he's only seeing C-Tier

So I noticed this, If lucario was always peak strength he would be god tier EASILY

Average attack damage is around 20% and uncharged tipper fsmash has considerably more KO power than DK's tipper fsmash lol

And homing attack is still a horrible move. this thread will never be correct until you fix that. No Sonic main with a fully functioning brain will say it has any potential, other than the potential to fail.

 

[weird_lion]

I love all the characters...

 

[BSP]

Overall better aerials.
Better killing power (besides gimping)
Better recovery
The slide (it's an advantage for luigi's moveset, imo)

Yes, luigi definitely has better killing power
I'd say their aerials are pretty even though
Better revovery yes, but still pretty easy to gimp/predictable
The slide...double edged sword. It lets him do some good stuff like sliding attacks and sliding too far away for follow up, but it also means a lot of moves become safe on block vs luigi(especially at the edge) as he can't shieldgrab and usually cant retaliate in time

Luigi can't really approach that well either, and since he can usually be outcamped, he's gonna get forced to approach. Might just be me, but smart opponents just look at what i do and usually can shieldgrab me or something, since luigi ends pretty close to the opponent due to his slow airspeed.

I could be wrong, but i really don't think luigi has much over mario. He has kill power, "combos", and recovery, but mario has a lot better approach, combos too, and actually has some options vs. people who drastically outrange him, like marth and g and w.

Looking at that master matchup chart, besides diddy, mario actually does better vs. the top tiers than luigi. I didnt see luigi vs wario, but i think luigi has a better chance vs wario.

On a side note, i think mario is underrated too.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yes, luigi definitely has better killing power. You're just brushing it off, it's important.
I'd say their aerials are pretty even though luigis fair is better then marios fair, no johns. luigi has more range on his bair and uair, luigis dair can spike, its nice.
Better revovery yes, but still pretty easy to gimp/predictable yes that's why luigi is known for being gimped often
The slide...double edged sword. It lets him do some good stuff like sliding attacks and sliding too far away for follow up, but it also means a lot of moves become safe on block vs luigi(especially at the edge) as he can't shieldgrab and usually cant retaliate in time there is no shield hitstun (not enough to be worth mentioning), luigis grab has enough range to still shieldgrab on time. the edge is an annoyance indeed

Luigi can't really approach that well either, and since he can usually be outcamped, he's gonna get forced to approach. Might just be me, but smart opponents just look at what i do and usually can shieldgrab me or something, since luigi ends pretty close to the opponent due to his slow airspeed. You can space your bairs better, they're safe. After all mario gets camped too, cape isn't helping that much if at all

I could be wrong, but i really don't think luigi has much over mario. He has kill power, "combos", and recovery, but mario has a lot better approach, combos too, and actually has some options vs. people who drastically outrange him, like marth and g and w. Which kind of options against those characters? fludd? good job using fludd all match, while luigi is spacing bairs

Looking at that master matchup chart, besides diddy, mario actually does better vs. the top tiers than luigi. I didnt see luigi vs wario, but i think luigi has a better chance vs wario.

On a side note, i think mario is underrated too.

replies in red

 

[CRASHiC]

Erm, yeah, there is shield hitstun.

 

[Nitrix]

Is Luigi better than Mario? Of course lol. Luigi has MUCH better killing power, and much better aerials, and a better jab game.

 

[BSP]

I still think they're pretty even in aerials. Luigi's fair is better yes. He may have more range on his bair and u air, but mario's are faster, but that might just be a preference thing though. mario's dair also allows some safe shield pressure as well. Luigi's aerials may be better, but only by a tiny bit.

Are you sure there's no shield hitstun? On well spaced aerials it's pretty hard to get a grab with luigi because he slides while in the shield hitstun.

cape will help with projectile camping, and fludd can somewhat help vs. aircamping, but in general, they're about equally disadvantaged when air camped.

I havent used luigi too much lately, so i may be underatting the bair's range, but can it beat marth's fair and g and w's bair?

Fludd really does help in those matches, even uncharged. Unless luigi's bair has more range than g and w ans marth's aerials, i think fludd is the better option.

@Nitrix: yes, i didnt put enough credit in luigi's KO power, it does make a difference. I don't really think his aerials are that much better, and if they are, only by a small bit. Yes, his jab game is good, but i was refering to matchups where mario and luigi are both outranged.

But still, his approach could be better, and some moves become safe on block against him. He can't respond to projectiles camping or aircamping as well either.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Erm, yeah, there is shield hitstun.

Ofcourse, but it isn't worth mentioning, even when talking about luigis slide.

I still think they're pretty even in aerials. Luigi's fair is better yes. He may have more range on his bair and u air, but mario's are faster, but that might just be a preference thing though. mario's dair also allows some safe shield pressure as well. Luigi's aerials may be better, but only by a tiny bit. Range is better for safety. Startup might be nice but there aren't any real combos anyway.. Mario's dair safe on shield? I didn't even know

Are you sure there's no shield hitstun? On well spaced aerials it's pretty hard to get a grab with luigi because he slides while in the shield hitstun. Like I said, I just don't think it's worth mentioning

cape will help with projectile camping, and fludd can somewhat help vs. aircamping, but in general, they're about equally disadvantaged when air camped. Disagree, luigis bair is just sex.

I havent used luigi too much lately, so i may be underatting the bair's range, but can it beat marth's fair and g and w's bair? it can if luigi manages to bait their aerials.

Fludd really does help in those matches, even uncharged. Unless luigi's bair has more range than g and w ans marth's aerials, i think fludd is the better option. Fludd is nice, but it doesn't do any damage. FIHL is kinda sweet though

@Nitrix: yes, i didnt put enough credit in luigi's KO power, it does make a difference. I don't really think his aerials are that much better, and if they are, only by a small bit. Yes, his jab game is good, but i was refering to matchups where mario and luigi are both outranged.

But still, his approach could be better, and some moves become safe on block against him. He can't respond to projectiles camping or aircamping as well either.

Sorry for being so... Xonar-ish


Mario lacks: range, a good recovery, an approach. Luigi fixes all of these problems. Luigis weaknesses are less severe. (even though i hate his projectile)

 

[BSP]

the dair on shield...i can only play online atm, that might be the reason i can get away with it.

I see your points, but how does luigi have a better approach than mario? And if his bair is so good, why is his ratio vs marth 10 points worse that mario's? (unless it's just outdated). Minus bair, luigi lacks range as well, and i still dont think his approach is as good as mario's.

Luigi may be a little better, but my point is that I don't think that mario and luigi are too far from each other.

And fludd not doing damage, the lag usually gives mario enough time to punish.

 

[CRASHiC]

Ofcourse, but it isn't worth mentioning, even when talking about luigis slide.

There is a video where Boss is fighting a Marth, and the Marth hit him in the shield with forward air, forward air, forard air, and using Shield DI the Luigi followed Marth all the way down the field. Shield DI is key to playing effectively with Luigi.

 

[LoganW]

what is shield DI?

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

what is shield DI?

Look it up w/ the search function.

 

[LoganW]

you could just tell me
EDIT: Is it just moving your shield around?

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

you could just tell me
EDIT: Is it just moving your shield around?

A guy was showing a video of the CPU shielding ICs down-b. The CPU was moving toward ICs while still shielding the attack.

That's shield DI. We don't know how to hack into the CPU to find out how to use it though.
Edit: No need to be lazy...

 

[LoganW]

ok cool. Why didn't you just tell me that

 

[Kitamerby]

And homing attack is still a horrible move. this thread will never be correct until you fix that. No Sonic main with a fully functioning brain will say it has any potential, other than the potential to fail.

It works occasionally. You won't be punished EVERY time, as it's usually performed by accident and thus unexpected.

There is a video where Boss is fighting a Marth, and the Marth hit him in the shield with forward air, forward air, forard air, and using Shield DI the Luigi followed Marth all the way down the field. Shield DI is key to playing effectively with Luigi.

I gotta see this. Link plz?

 

[hotgarbage]

A guy was showing a video of the CPU shielding ICs down-b. The CPU was moving toward ICs while still shielding the attack.

That's shield DI. We don't know how to hack into the CPU to find out how to use it though.

Hm? "Shield DI" is done the same way as SDI. Just whack the control stick left or right to "teleport" in that direction during hitlag.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

There is a video where Boss is fighting a Marth, and the Marth hit him in the shield with forward air, forward air, forard air, and using Shield DI the Luigi followed Marth all the way down the field. Shield DI is key to playing effectively with Luigi.

I call bull****.


youtube:
Boss Luigi Marth
Newest

NOTHING
-----------
Luigi Marth
Newest

NOTHING
-----------

You better link a video because I am obviously incapable of finding anything even containing a match of boss with his weegee vs marth.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I would like to see a videow ith this shield DI.
Simply because it makes sense.

DI is simply changing the trajectory from which you are being pushed.
I cant understand as to why you're moving forward when the nockback of a move is pushing you back.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

From what I've seen of Sonic play, Sonic's Homing Attack is a pretty decent move, but it's not an approach like very poor Sonic players like to use it as. I was seeing it used as a mix-up after hits when Sonic was already at advantage; he can use it to chase in any direction he wants even if it's kinda slow. I mean, it's hardly the best thing Sonic has, but to call it useless seems a stretch at best.

Also, Luigi obviously has much better aerials than Mario. Just compare them one by one.

Forward: Mario's is nearly useless in standard Brawl (absurdly slow and weak); Luigi's is a really solid and quick move all around. It's like Luigi has an extra move.

Up: Pretty similar really. There are differences, but they aren't enough to constitute a significant advantage for either.

Back: Same story with Up.

Down: There is perhaps some debate here as Mario's down aerial has its own virtues (such as shockingly high priority), but the fact that Luigi's has such radically lower commitment makes me favor it in the end.

Neutral: Luigi's neutral aerial is insanely good mostly because of how ridiculously hard it hits. Mario's is nothing special. Luigi cleans Mario up here.

So, Luigi has two aerials way better than Mario's equivalents, two that are pretty similar, and one that is very different in function but probably overall better (not to say Mario's is particularly bad). How does Luigi not have flat out better aerials?

Good Luigi players (or good "not Olimar/Ivysaur") won't be gimped very often, when they do mostly by Meta Knight which, while important, is just one matchup. The fact that Luigi gets enough distance on his recovery to come back from anything and generally does have way more flexibility in the sense that he has several moves he could utilize to recover puts him at a substantial edge to Mario in this category.

Yeah, the traction is a double edged sword, but one matchup it helps Luigi a lot in is both brothers' most feared matchup: King Dedede. King Dedede doing the running chaingrab on Luigi requires frame perfect timing that I remain very skeptical even the best King Dedede players can do consistently. With Mario, it's all too easy. Given that on King Dedede's fresh grab both already eat something like 5 throws before they can mash out (which they obviously will in most circumstances), being able to avoid the potential follow-up of the subsequent running chaingrab is a big plus for Luigi. Mario's 5 dthrows could turn into something like 9 all too easily...

The kill power is a really big deal, and the amount Luigi outclasses Mario on this parameter is pretty big. Mario generally struggles to kill; Luigi is a killing machine.

I'm skeptical that Mario really has a better approach given that he practically doesn't have a forward aerial. Sure, his Fireballs are a lot better and can kinda cover approaches, but Luigi can double aerial on shields as he comes down which seems better to me. Luigi has a few shenanigans to exploit his traction for grounded approaches too; Mario's only real answer to that is... a usable dash attack? It doesn't seem like a fair trade. I mean, at the end of the day, you do have to look at what works, and Luigi is in many ways following the model of Meta Knight. Poor aerial mobility with very fast aerial attack speed on all around quite good aerials. That works. Mario has average aerial mobility with a set of aerials that are probably all around merely average (including not being able to attack the direction he's facing in air in a useful way to approach which is really limiting, just ask DK).

There are other things in the equation too such as the utility of Cape + FLUDD versus Green Missile + Luigi Cyclone or how much Mario's invincibility on up special is really worth when what Luigi gets in exchange is some of his KO power. In the end, I must favor Luigi on these parameters, but they're lengthy and complex comparisons of things that are not similar so it's probably not worth drudging though.

As a Mr. Game & Watch main, I think I can speak from experience a bit and say that Mario doesn't have a substantial advantage, if indeed any at all, over the most disjointed of characters. Here's the thing; it's way too easy to zone and generally shut down both of them. It's somewhat harder to do to Mario, but it's still easy. On the other hand, when they do manage to do the difficult and land their hits, Luigi gets a lot out of it. Mario... not so much. Mario doesn't kill early, and I can escape his "combos" easily enough by exploiting good (S)DI and Fire (for somewhat higher risk, feel free to insert Shuttle Loop or Dolphin Slash here). That means that I don't really have to exercise that much caution against Mario; even if he lands a few hits here and there, it's not a big deal. With Luigi, he kills stupidly low, and when he chases into the air (very often since most of his moveset hits up), I have to exercise some more caution because if he snags me with a sweetspot nair or Fire Jump Punch out of the air, I'm going to die so stupidly low that Luigi can make up for a whole lot of zoning and slow advantage gaining I've been doing. To me, it seems like a case of high risk low reward versus somewhat higher risk high reward. Mario's somewhat lower risk is worth something, but I'm more worried about the reward since neither can stack up favorably to team disjointed on the risk side anyway. In either case, both are matchups really in my favor; I breathe a sigh of relief when I see either picked so I can't imagine either side holding up a matchup like this on a pedestal.

My experiences with Balanced Brawl do teach me that Mario is only a few subtle things away from being a good character (mostly better KO power which totally changes the value on everything for him) while Luigi requires more care to bring up to standard. So in that sense, I suppose Mario is "closer" to being solid than Luigi, but as they stand, I think it's pretty clear that what Luigi can do within his limits is generally a lot better for the purpose of winning than what Mario can do. Luigi is not really that far below the watermark; he in many ways performs like a high tier character outside of four matchups (Meta Knight, King Dedede, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch). Mario just screams low tier at me; it's very hard for me to envision this Mario as he stands as in league with Luigi. I'm particularly skeptical of the accuracy of any matchup chart that grants Mario better matchups than Luigi against assorted high tier characters, but I think I'm going to end this post here.

 

[Captain L]

you forgot to mention that Luigi has an extra move, down taunt.

By the way that entire post was full of green win.

 

[Kinzer]

It works occasionally. You won't be punished EVERY time, as it's usually performed by accident and thus unexpected.

Unexpected to who, the opponent or a mess-up on the Sonic players part? I admit it helped me in one situation I can recall, and that was because it couldn't have gotten any worse than if I had done nothing, so I took the chance.

I'd say a worthy opponent is somebody who is ready for anything, and somebody who is good at countering a Sonic should know everything about him. Homing Attack is no exception, even if the player spams it or doesn't use it at all the entire match/set.

The move just sucks no matter how much you try to sugarcoat it and mention a couple of saving-graces here and there. Move on to a topic more important of discussing than that PoS.

And by "you", I mean anybody who has already said something or is planning to, not just singling out Kita.

 

[BSP]

I feel like sonic should be in C tier too.

And HA is just a bad move in general, shouldnt be used much at all.

 

[mountain_tiger]

LOL @ people saying that Sonic's Homing Attack doesn't suck.

That attack is just plain garbage. It has large start-up, and when he does eventually zoom towards you, that's basically a free attack for the other person, and against characters with good USmashes like Zelda this is especially bad.

 

[C.box]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TWj8un-Qt4

shield di.

 

[Tidal]

wasn't that a shieldstun postponed roll

 

[lax guy5]

Marth is viable against all characters listed this far. Marth is everything I could ever want in a character. He has speed, range, combos, a great camp game, solid recovery, kill set-ups, shield breaker, a great grab game, and if you tipper a smash attack, awesome kill power. He's just mad good. His low weight class coupled with lack of a projectile means that this lightweight character is forced to approach in some MUs, and that's what landed him in my B-Tier. Still, I wouldn't grudge you if you put Marth in the same tier as Falco and Wario.

I thought Marth had one of/the worst grabs in the game.

 

[Browny]

From what I've seen of Sonic play, Sonic's Homing Attack is a pretty decent move, but it's not an approach like very poor Sonic players like to use it as. I was seeing it used as a mix-up after hits when Sonic was already at advantage; he can use it to chase in any direction he wants even if it's kinda slow. I mean, it's hardly the best thing Sonic has, but to call it useless seems a stretch at best.

Play a few games as Sonic, use HA whenever you think it's a good option, then get back to me when it proves useful.

I wont be holding my breath.

the only semi-reliable use of HA it to chase certain recoveries offstage. Some characters can't afford to airdodge or throw out laggy attacks while recovering, against everyone else its borderline useless and will get you punished for ever using it.

 

[Kinzer]

What do you mean borderline?

Peach/Zelda are two good examples of characters that make HA absolutely garbage. I hope I don't need to go into detail of how much using HA on them is suicide but I will if I have too. I'll give you other characters as examples if you need more than two. Look at G&W, Wario, SONIC, Lucario, blah blah blah.

 

[MurdaMoe]

This is what i expected

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

pierce you never added ike or bowers

 

[Katakiri]

LOL @ people saying that Sonic's Homing Attack doesn't suck.

That attack is just plain garbage. It has large start-up, and when he does eventually zoom towards you, that's basically a free attack for the other person, and against characters with good USmashes like Zelda this is especially bad.

Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYmr_uI4Ndg

Aside from the instance when I used 3 Homing Attacks as a taunt, this is how Homing Attack should be used. It isn't a bad attack by any means. You just have to know what you're doing and have full control of your movements before you start it.

What I mean by "full control of your movements" is that you should be able to start HA at any time YOU want and know EXACTLY when the attack gets launched. An example of not doing this is spamming B to break out & retaliate against MK's Mach Tornado. You won't have control over exactly when HA will get launched and you will most likely get punished for it.
__________________________________________________________

I have to say that I agree with just about everything on this list, Pierce. Some of that even made me rethink my character choices.

The only beef that I have with your list is your summary of PT.

The first thing would be Ivysaur.

Ivysaur is definitely MY best of MY 3 Pokemon and I've studied and used her extensively, so please believe me when I say that I know exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to Ivysaur.

I couldn't see Ivysaur being anything less than Mid-Tier individually. Why would she even be bottom tier?

It can't be just her recovery. I mean Olimar has a FAR worse recovery than Ivysaur and look where he is. Not only does she have the longest diagonal range of any tether recovery, she has Razor Leaf which is better than a purple Pikmin since it's always available and semi-homes in on the other character. Let's not forget the very minor detail that she can somewhat slow her decent using D-Air.

Her aerials are either devastating (Up-Air & F-Air) or have ridiculous range. (B-Air & D-Air) N-Air just racks up damage and sets up.....everything. (Including itself)

Her ground game is just as solid. F-Smash, D-Smash, F-Tilt, D-Tilt, and Jabs have great range and priority. Bullet Seed OoS is just hell on Earth for anyone that gets too close. (The first hit of Bullet Seed is in the same class as Snake's F-Tilt in terms of a disjointed hitbox)
As for Up-Smash....well....what's there to say? It's a faster, stronger version of Lucas' Up-Smash. High risk, high reward.

Razor Leaf is just in a class of it's own as a projectile. It clashes with things such as Toon Link & Pit's arrows, but it slices through projectile stoppers like the pillars of Luigi's Mansion. Waddle Dees, and Pikmin. It's also very spammable and has a very large hitbox for a projectile. (Which makes it a Nade-happy Snake's nightmare)

I REALLY don't see why she'd ever be considered low-tier.

Honestly I've been wondering this for a while now so I'll post this on the PT boards too.



The only other problem I have is how you make it sound like each Pokemon is a stock.

Unless you're on FD, it's VERY easy to Zero Switch Pokemon and only take 10% to 15% in the process. On stages like SV, Delfino, Japes, & RC, if I really wanted to use Ivysaur for every stock, I could very easily do it using Baton Passing and take absolutely no more than 20% in the process.

PT could easily pass Sonic on the tier list. (This is coming from a Sonic/PT main) Hell, he could even pass Wolf. While it's true that a lot of people just don't know the PT match-up, even fewer people know the character as a whole which is why he's so underrated in the first place.


.....wow I can rant about PT huh?



With all that aside, I love how you presented this, Pierce. More people should use this kind of format instead of just posting a tier list with no explanation and expect us to talk about it.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol
above poster sucks
Ivysaur isnt close to mid tier alone, and olimar has a far better recovery due to air speed, down b, his momentum wiht it, and with purples he can grab the ledge.

But shes not good besides that.

 

[Katakiri]

Lol
above poster sucks

^This

Ivysaur isnt close to mid tier alone, and olimar has a far better recovery due to air speed, down b, his momentum wiht it, and with purples he can grab the ledge.

But shes not good besides that.

Weheheeeell, not to try to flame you or anything, but I just so happen to be a smash hacker so I have all the attributes for Brawl right here. Let's take a look shall we?

In terms of Air Mobility:
Ivysaur is a 0.09/0.30 (30 being Wario)
Olimar is a 0.07/0.30
That's right. Ivysaur is faster in the air. (Frame data ain't nothin' I got PROGRAMING DATA over here!)


As for Oli's Down-B, yea it's nice and Imma let you use it, but Ivysaur's aerial attacks have the best range in this WHOLE COMPARISON. Ivy has no need for super armor when her F-Air has that kind of range and kill power.


This last one.....why'd you even bring it up? I addressed this already.
Purple Pikmin are there for Olimar....SOME THE TIME.
Razor Leaf is there of Ivysaur.....ALL OF THE TIME. AAAAND have better range.


AND BEFORE I LET YOU FINISH I just got say once again that Ivysaur has the best Diagonal Tether Range OF ALL TIME!


Yea, if you really want to do character comparisons with me, you're gonna have to know Brawl inside & out.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok ivysaur technically has better speed, but olimar is floaty so he goes 100x further
Thats the only reason his recovery is better.
Btw bro i dont care about statistics, i care about what actually goes on.
I played vs typh, who was one of the top PTs.
I know what PT is capable of, and ivysaur is not a good character.
Foward air is slow, laggy, and not really good for that.

But i dont really care lol.
+1 Post count

 

[phi1ny3]

I thought Marth had one of/the worst grabs in the game.

Not True.
Has a really good pivot grab in range.
Can do throw -> tipper fsmash on most of the cast for a nice boost at 0%
Can do air release shenanigans on some people, especially on people like MK and G&W (Marth really leans on air release to do stuff against MK as the only other methods for getting a hit in are avoidable if the MK makes his weakpoints minimal, and air release allows tipper fair, nair (I think), sideB, dair (this only works if you are frame perfect by one frame), and even dash -> DS for KO.
Grab release CG ***** Ness, Lucas, and Squirtle.
Can do mini-CGs on some opponents, ex. There's one on fox/falco that goes fthrow x3 -> tipper dair offstage for a near insured KO if you edgehog.
Most throws lead to an aerial/smash if read correctly, or put opponents in bad positions, because of the close range they put them to allow tight control.
Marth has a good grab game, but his throws by themselves obviously don't look impressive at a glance. They do all sorts of really good things though.

 

[smashkng]

Not True.
Has a really good pivot grab in range.
Can do throw -> tipper fsmash on most of the cast for a nice boost at 0%
Can do air release shenanigans on some people, especially on people like MK and G&W (Marth really leans on air release to do stuff against MK as the only other methods for getting a hit in are avoidable if the MK makes his weakpoints minimal, and air release allows tipper fair, nair (I think), sideB, dair (this only works if you are frame perfect by one frame), and even dash -> DS for KO.
Grab release CG ***** Ness, Lucas, and Squirtle.
Can do mini-CGs on some opponents, ex. There's one on fox/falco that goes fthrow x3 -> tipper dair offstage for a near insured KO if you edgehog.
Most throws lead to an aerial/smash if read correctly, or put opponents in bad positions, because of the close range they put them to allow tight control.
Marth has a good grab game, but his throws by themselves obviously don't look impressive at a glance. They do all sorts of really good things though.

Yes, I think the fthrow to dair ***** Falco because I think he then forced to up b which means up b stage spike.

 

[Dekar173]

Can do mini-CGs on some opponents, ex. There's one on fox/falco that goes fthrow x3 -> tipper dair offstage for a near insured KO if you edgehog.

Either my opponents have bad DI, or Marth can actually do dthrow x 10 > tippered fsmash from 0. On Fox Falco ;P

:O

 

[demonictoonlink]

^
They do, because that doesn't actually work.

 

[ShadowLink84]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TWj8un-Qt4

shield di.

Im guessing it only works wih low knockback multihit moves.