Predictions for Tier List v4 (Includes overview of entire cast)

[Kitamerby]

You are completely deviating from the subject at hand, which is in regards to what you do when the first hit is landed.

Stop arguing for the sake of it.

That was never the subject. Reread the posts. I've been talking about the tipper all this time.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Btw, where the hell is the overview of Bowser and Ike?

 

[ShadowLink84]

That was never the subject. Reread the posts. I've been talking about the tipper all this time.

Then speak better, tipper is inaccurate and makes it sound as if you refer to a sweetspot.

 

[AnDaLe]

I think Dk will make top tier, just cuz.

 

[Ripple]

I think Dk will make top tier, just cuz.

cuz me and ook wreck people? that's not enough I'm afraid

 

[AnDaLe]

cuz me and ook wreck people? that's not enough I'm afraid

lmao, how the f. yea watching u and ook play brawl was a gag. specially in teams

almost 500!!!

 

[Matador]

If D3 wasn't so bad for him, I'd argue A-tier for DK. He has the most absurd speed-to-power ratio I've ever seen in a videogame. He's also got one of the best momentum cancels in the game.

And his Giant punch has so many applications.

 

[ShadowLink84]

If D3 wasn't so bad for him, I'd argue A-tier for DK. He has the most absurd speed-to-power ratio I've ever seen in a videogame. He's also got one of the best momentum cancels in the game.

And his Giant punch has so many applications.

Its called the DONKEY BONG PUNCH!

 

[AfroTwist ShadowPie]

Link mains have been discussing wether he should be above CF or not lately so, I went to their boards and compared matchup points... CF should not be above Link lol
No bias.

Actually, just have a look yourself

Not trying to be annoying, and I know no one cares about bottom tiers, but CF being above Link makes no sense ¯\(°_o)/¯

 

[C.box]

you're being dumb.

Sheik's Fsmash is a move that depends on where she hits you with her first hit.
So you can't SDI back to avoid the second hit, nor up because you don't pop up high enough.

wolf's Fsmash doesn't have such a sweetspot.
The angle at which he hits you cause you to actually pop up, not to the side where the second hit will connect. So when you get hit by the tipper, you DI down and hit the ground, causing the second hit to miss you.

The move completely relies on the first hit setting up for the second hit and unlike Snake's Ftilt or Sheik's Fsmash, can be broken through proper DI.

The TIP of wolf's fsmash ISN'T HITTING WITH THE FIRST HIT, it's hitting with the SECOND hit so sdi isn't gonna help you avoid it when you already got hit by the second hit <_<.

 

[Red-Blue]

Actually, just have a look yourself

Not trying to be annoying, and I know no one cares about bottom tiers, but CF being above Link makes no sense ¯\(°_o)/¯

Ganon vs. The Rest MU Ratings are sad. So sad, I actually chuckled at them. 0:100 xD

 

[Albert.]

Ganon vs. The Rest MU Ratings are sad. So sad, I actually chuckled at them. 0:100 xD

I beat an Olimar in a set with Ganondorf once, he seemed ready to cry.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Why does Sonic have a disadvantage against Charizard. (wha?)
And is going 65:35 with marth? (should be 6-4 at worst really)

plus EVERYONE ***** Gdorf.
XD

The TIP of wolf's fsmash ISN'T HITTING WITH THE FIRST HIT, it's hitting with the SECOND hit so sdi isn't gonna help you avoid it when you already got hit by the second hit <_<.

Wolf's Fsmash is made up of two hits.
To a say you are tippering with it gives it the notation of having a sweetspot. Which it doesn't.
People use their terms way too freely.

Let alone Kitamerby said the EXACT SAME THING.
Which I responded to as well.
lurk moar post less

 

[Tien2500]

Why does Sonic have a disadvantage against Charizard. (wha?)

Why wouldn't Charizard have an advgantage against Sonic? I don't really see any tool one or the other has that really shuts the other down. What it comes down to is weight and power and even a fatigued Charizard can KO better than Sonic so 55:45 Zard seems right.

 

[Calzum!]

I beat an Olimar in a set with Ganondorf once, he seemed ready to cry.

theres a Ganon in the UK that is 20th in the UK rankings

 

[ShadowLink84]

Why wouldn't Charizard have an advgantage against Sonic? I don't really see any tool one or the other has that really shuts the other down. What it comes down to is weight and power and even a fatigued Charizard can KO better than Sonic so 55:45 Zard seems right.

I am sorry what?
neither character has the tools to have an advantage over each other, but Charizard has higher KO power and greater weight, he MUST have an advantage.

no that is terrible logic.
Why?
Ganondorf.
great Ko power, great weight.
no tools.

Don't use stats to push a matchup ratio.
if the abilities of the characters simply do not show them capable of conquering the other, it looks desperate when you resort to such an argument.

 

[Tien2500]

So... having high weight against a character that has an incredible amount of difficulty KOing is not an advantage?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So... having high weight against a character that has an incredible amount of difficulty KOing is not an advantage?

Not if you get juggled the whole match.

 

[Tien2500]

Not if you get juggled the whole match.

But Sonic's juggling game isn't really that amazing. Sonic doesn't have advantageous matchups against other characters like DK, ROB, or Bowser who he can juggle just as easily.

 

[Zigsta]

Charizard having the highest advantage of PT against MK?

lolwut

 

[Tien2500]

The MK boards have Squirtle/MK at 35:65 and I'm not sure we even have a matchup discussion so thats what they went with for that list I guess.

 

[JayBee]

I like this list for the most part, and even though he doesn't know everything, he explanations show how much he does know, and you can repsect that. I personally agree the most with IC's, Pokemon trainer and Ness, since I know an dplay with Aposl and gimr often, and i ended up picking up Ic's as a result. Its going to get to the point where one grab will end a stock easy, unfortunately we dont have too many big name players, and that's really the only issue. Ness will suprise you, and has several good setups for jablocks and other traps that are relatively realiable. I'm suprised that you didn't mention Sonic's ******** recovery OR his edge gaurding ability, which IMO is pretty dumb too, and does make up for his lakc of kill options. I also think that not sidesteping is a pretty bad statement to say about sonic since a ton of damage comes from throw combos and setups, so beware of that. Combine this with Sonic players still placing, (especially in MD/VA) and i think he still deserves mid tier, IMO. its just that he takes so long to play right.

I'm looking forward to discussion on this thread, especially the things I'm concerned with.

 

[Palpi]

Steeler played pretty well against Affinity as solo zard a little while back.

 

[Tien2500]

Steeler played pretty well against Affinity as solo zard a little while back.

Its not that Charizard does really bad. (40:60 is about right) but Squirtle is better.

 

[DanGR]

Against Charizard as MK you just have to dair camp and use tornado well.
Squirtle is at least somewhat decent against dair camping and has enough
aerial speed and maneuverability to get past tornado.

 

[Fox.]

I think the Star Fox chars are one of the most balanced chars, just an opinion

 

[GreenFox]

I defintley see the iceclimbers going up possibly to S and D3 moving down because he has been every tier list. I dont expect many radical changes besides Ice climbers maybe movin up 4 or 5 slots up

 

[Gindler]

Actually, just have a look yourself

Not trying to be annoying, and I know no one cares about bottom tiers, but CF being above Link makes no sense ¯\(°_o)/¯

This thing just looks stupid. Wolf has a 40:60 disadvantage against wario apparently, but wario has a 70:30 advantage against wolf? There are many other matchups on this "chart" where it argues with itself. That's just the first one I noticed...................................

 

[professor mgw]

Im still not getting the whole DK better than peach thing.

 

[phi1ny3]

@ Gindler:
I'm hoping you know that that's the ratios of what the specific character board says vs. the other boards about that character.

 

[Xyro77]

that chart is total BS

 

[Magik0722]

Well that chart is just what each character board lists as their MU

 

[Xyro77]

its wrong. i looked at the samus stuff and its way off

 

[phi1ny3]

He's probably taking it from an old chart, which in that case, Xyro, you should tell him in the MU Chart and List thread which one to take the ratios off of.

 

[Steeler]

that chart is total BS

Well that chart is just what each character board lists as their MU

therefore, character board matchup discussions are total BS

also tornado loses to rock smash almost always if it is positioned correctly, which will combo into usmash. mk can't take that much damage. mt is still good though, just only good in certain situations. dair camping might work but zard's usmash/uair out of shield are both pretty good. and if mk isn't directly overhead, charizard can just full hop retreating rock smash.

 

[Hyesz]

Ganon for god tier.
Falcon is close second.

 

[Magik0722]

MT > Charizard

It can be hard to position rocksmash where you need it if they are unpredictable with it since itll be hard to react to it

Also MT works best below zard

 

[phi1ny3]

lol how did Magik get such a tripped out picture of Giovanni? It's just creeping me out.
Also, I wish people didn't finish the chart by going "okay, everyone put up a bunch of lists of numbers they think against _______, and we'll average them".

 

[Steeler]

yeah mt ***** zard when he is above mk. like most heavyweights. tornado isn't very good against charizard when both characters are in a neutral position though. which is more than some characters can say. plus flamethrower is an excellent bait for tornado since all of mk's other moves are outspaced by it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

lol how did Magik get such a tripped out picture of Giovanni? It's just creeping me out.
Also, I wish people didn't finish the chart by going "okay, everyone put up a bunch of lists of numbers they think against _______, and we'll average them".

This why I ignore some ratios given on the Link Boards.

If the people claiming the ratios gave no information as to why the ratio was, "R.O.B. is 80:20 vs Link hur hur hur, Snake is a 75:25 hur hur hur"

Then I ignore them and take in the ratios of people who actually backed-up what they said. This is also why I like how you run it, people actually go over discussing it rather than ratio's first, info later.