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PP will be fine. He's got that whole "I'm a top 5 player" thing going on.
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
Bones0
Smash Legend
Armada, Mango, Hbox, Mew2King, Javi
Step it up, PP.
Step it up, PP.
D
Deleted member
Guest
my first tournament, i played chu in ness vs kirby (i was the ness). and then we talked about how we both thought ness and kirby were secretly great.
2 january 2004 lol
2 january 2004 lol
Stevo
Smash Champion
man, I can't even remember my first tournament.
I played a small tournament of Smash 64 with people from my school before melee even came out, but I don't think that should count. (probably 12 people only)
I do remember thinking Kirby was actually good really early on (probably around '04 or something)
I played a small tournament of Smash 64 with people from my school before melee even came out, but I don't think that should count. (probably 12 people only)
I do remember thinking Kirby was actually good really early on (probably around '04 or something)
Anand
Smash Journeyman
... who made this bet?
Bones0
Smash Legend
Twitch.
He's going to give PP the flu right before he leaves.
He's going to give PP the flu right before he leaves.
Wow I would definitely take that **** up lol.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Honestly, who wouldn't :D
Wes is mad good and everything, but the other guy is the doctor of smash himself!
(before anyone asks, I'm not going to set up a paypal account or sth for stupid stuff like smash bets
)
Wes is mad good and everything, but the other guy is the doctor of smash himself!
(before anyone asks, I'm not going to set up a paypal account or sth for stupid stuff like smash bets
)
Bones0
Smash Legend
Kevin is the Dr. of Smash, and it's about time for Wes's checkup. Hopefully it doesn't get physical. Amoxicillin's just not real enough.
Wait, what?
Wait, what?
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
if you guys saw how wes was playing last night
oh my god.....
oh my god.....
No one's knocking the dude... but let's be real here. LOL
JPOBS
Smash Hero
I think a more interesting bet would be sidebets on PP vs Wes playing directly.
I think wes has a better chance at beating PP in a 1 on 1 than he does at outplacing him.
If it was simply the latter, I'd choose PP
I think wes has a better chance at beating PP in a 1 on 1 than he does at outplacing him.
If it was simply the latter, I'd choose PP
Doser
Smash Ace
Wes, I want to believe.
Squirt
Smash Apprentice
Now I can't get the image of PP giving wes a cavity check out of my mind.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Everyone knows dentists aren't real doctors.Now I can't get the image of PP giving wes a cavity check out of my mind.
Oh, wait...
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
wes is going to get the rubber glove treatment from Dr. PeePee.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I even had free health care and it wasn't enough, what does Wes really have? lol.
FrootLoop
Smash Lord
shi ne
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
all you really need is a shine and a dream
Jake13
Smash Lord
Pp is gonna tap
Wesballz will never be a top 5 player
Shots fired
Wesballz will never be a top 5 player
Shots fired
Meneks
Smash Lord
forever will he linger in the top 50s
edit: if even that
edit: if even that
Bones0
Smash Legend
No, it's not safe at all. Landing from airdodges (WDing) has 10 frames of lag, which is quite a lot to be sitting in front of someone's shield with, especially when combined with Falco's 5-frames of jumpsquat before he leaves the ground. Learn to move fluently out of your double shines just like you would with a single shine. I think you're actually MORE likely to get grabbed out of double shines because people often look for the first shine, and by the time they react the second shine's stun has just run out and they've grabbed.
Squirt
Smash Apprentice
What about double shinegrab?
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
I've been hit by a double shine grab and it made me want to quit out and just start another match.
Squirt
Smash Apprentice
haha. I was surprised because normally I crack under pressure but at Midstate Massacre I pulled off some sweet stuff like double shine grab.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I do double-shine grab a lot, but everyone tells me I should just shine-grab. >.>
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Cause shield DI. But I dunno how many people ACTUALLY use shield DI against Falco's pressure.
Or use shield DI in general. Generally, shine > grab is better because of it, though.
Or use shield DI in general. Generally, shine > grab is better because of it, though.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Does double shine even beat buffered rolls? If so, what about when it's staled below 7 damage? Sveet? Strong bad?
Shine does hit frame 1, is jump cancelable on frame 4 and does 8% of damage (5 frames of base adv. on block), therefore if shine is jump canceled perfectly (that buffers, right?), we're looking at a +2 advantage (5 + 1 - 4 = 2).
That means for shine grab that our grab-box connects on the 5th frame with whatever opponent inputted frame perfectly. So we lose to everything that hits frame 4 or earlier and pretty much beat everything that hits frame 5, because grab is just awesome like that in terms of priority, right?
For a second shine, we have to wait through the jump squat and then get a hit box on frame 6 because it's the first frame we're airborne and can therefore shine, which means we hit on frame 4 of our opponents reponse, which would mean somebody who buffered a roll would already be invulnerable, right? And we would clank with stuff that hits on frame 4, right?
If I am not mistaken, that would mean that there's little reason to double shine grab over shine grab in terms of catching OOS stuff between the first shine and the grab (what does hit on exactly frame 4? Fox shine OOS?), and it's pretty much resulting in the same situation if it works out.
So the main reason to do a double shine would be to get in a "free" second shine which leaves you at the same frame advantage than the first one, whittling down his shield some more, setting up for more likely shield stabs.
But if you're fine with getting the grab, because you think the throw will set up for sufficiently nice stuff anyways, then you should just go for shine grab imho... Unless you want to style, where I would totally agree that double shine grab looks rather sweet (:
edit: oh, and not that I would recommend rolling as the default response to Falco shield pressure (reading them yields really nice stuff to Falco), but it's definitely something one should consider.
Shine does hit frame 1, is jump cancelable on frame 4 and does 8% of damage (5 frames of base adv. on block), therefore if shine is jump canceled perfectly (that buffers, right?), we're looking at a +2 advantage (5 + 1 - 4 = 2).
That means for shine grab that our grab-box connects on the 5th frame with whatever opponent inputted frame perfectly. So we lose to everything that hits frame 4 or earlier and pretty much beat everything that hits frame 5, because grab is just awesome like that in terms of priority, right?
For a second shine, we have to wait through the jump squat and then get a hit box on frame 6 because it's the first frame we're airborne and can therefore shine, which means we hit on frame 4 of our opponents reponse, which would mean somebody who buffered a roll would already be invulnerable, right? And we would clank with stuff that hits on frame 4, right?
If I am not mistaken, that would mean that there's little reason to double shine grab over shine grab in terms of catching OOS stuff between the first shine and the grab (what does hit on exactly frame 4? Fox shine OOS?), and it's pretty much resulting in the same situation if it works out.
So the main reason to do a double shine would be to get in a "free" second shine which leaves you at the same frame advantage than the first one, whittling down his shield some more, setting up for more likely shield stabs.
But if you're fine with getting the grab, because you think the throw will set up for sufficiently nice stuff anyways, then you should just go for shine grab imho... Unless you want to style, where I would totally agree that double shine grab looks rather sweet (:
edit: oh, and not that I would recommend rolling as the default response to Falco shield pressure (reading them yields really nice stuff to Falco), but it's definitely something one should consider.
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"For a second shine, we have to wait through the jump squat and then get a hit box on frame 6"
Can't you shine while still in jumpsquat?
Can't you shine while still in jumpsquat?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Nah, you can't. The things you can do out of jump squat are limited to: grab, up smash, up b.
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What.
That blows my mind. I always thought you could at least shine...one of the silly things I've thought forever that was wrong.
That blows my mind. I always thought you could at least shine...one of the silly things I've thought forever that was wrong.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
I think the up smash and up b thing are in there so the intended players (happy party with items and four way everyone vs everyone smashers :D) wouldn't be required to practically hit up on the controlstick and "a" frame perfectly in order not to accidentally jump instead... Well, so now we can just hit a / b while still on the ground and the jumping animation will be canceled, and we get the respective move instead of the tap jump nobody asked for. While probably just intended to be used for leeway in the neutral position, this of course translated to doing this stuff out of shield or cancelling the dash that way. Well, and shine doesn't require you to hit up, so there's no reason to allow it out of jump squat (grab doesn't either, but probably splashes over because of the a + shield thingy :D)
You can however shield drop > shine on the first possible frame while on a platform, that would result in a grounded shine on the platform, which comes out on frame 2 :D
You can however shield drop > shine on the first possible frame while on a platform, that would result in a grounded shine on the platform, which comes out on frame 2 :D
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It's essentially a grounded shine OOS. Yeah, I've done it a few times in practice, and it always seemed like a cool idea, I guess. Faster than shine OOS, too. I've just not seen anyone do it yet.
Shine does not care about the rules.
And that stuff about jump cancelling makes sense...I think. Lol.
Shine does not care about the rules.
And that stuff about jump cancelling makes sense...I think. Lol.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
It doesnt always work since Falco can account for shield DI while doing his moves too.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Well, double shine makes him commit to one spot, and I've never seen anybody move between the aerial and his shine, so that one is pretty much in the same spot as well... three instances of shield DI do cover a lot of ground I think. I'm just too afraid of shield stabs to really use it :x
you're welcome, and i appreciate it =)
It can be good, but like with anything else, if you pigeonhole yourself into one style of play then it can be very bad. Playing under platforms is pretty safe but what do you want to do ultimately?
I will always play well.
theory bros @ all of this
This is smashboards, where theorybros is apparently more relevant than actual smashbros.
