PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[CK Momentum]

you can always just up-b out of shield

I cannot believe I didn't think of this. You're like Bobby Fischer. But for smash.

well perhaps with the proper spacing/timing

but i feel like a lot of lower/mid level falco's feel like they can just get away with dair shining on shield when that doesn't really carry over into high level play
and you're giving up prime opportunities to discovery the nuances of what people like to do OoS which you will need later on

sapce jab pressure, do retreating aerials, delay ur dair/nair whatever

but don't just laser laser dair shine auto pilot, ur just wasting opportunities to learn and improve

omfg u like read my brain thats all i can do. I'm working on shine grab atm, and learning the role of dash dancing in pressure/baiting. I really liked pp's thread about how since falco's dd is shorter than some of the classically dd happy chars (marth/falcon/fox) it has to work in with your laser game. I think bones0 had a really good post on people's oos options the ohter day I'll study it on the plane today (going to kentucky... on purpose)

Gotta do fadeaway nair and stuff, Crush and me were actually talking a lot about dd the other day so I've gotta put that into my game too.

I kind of wnat to start playing predictively too but I can only really do it when they already have very limited options (already very close to the ledge/prone on a platform etc.) It's really hard for me to guess what a person might do at the neutral position, but $mike and me were talking before rom and he says that noticing and taking advantage of what a person does in general (spacing/approach/defense/movement) is one of hte most important things to do so i gotta learn it.

 

[-ACE-]

i hit shields sometimes because some people like to roll right as they see my move. but your shield drops before you actually get invincibility, so they just get hit.

also, given how ganon can dair under shields, i believe that if, for a frame, an active attacking hitbox hits only an opponents hitbox that isn't shielded, the hit will get taken. no matter how many of ganons hitboxes are in the shield, the bottom hitbox hitting the feet is what matters.

Word. I agree.

 

[genkaku]

apparently playing 5 second chess makes you better at falco dittos.

 

[crush]

isnt bobby fischer dead?

 

[Bones0]

Bobby Fischer: Very fashionable.

 

[crush]

oh haha thats why

 

[unknown522]

another set with my falco from HOPE4 got uploaded:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKyIKm1Kq7c&feature=BFa&list=UUrgOLAsUwxZbhxORVjgSkAA&lf=plcp

 

[BeLia]

Hi, I've started to play falco recently, i've recorded a set and i'd like some tips.
I know my falco is not great for the moment, i'm a marth/sheik main, plus it's not that easy to get the tech skill working in real matches when you've just trained by your own (yeah i haven't played falco a lot before this set actually).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnYxceM_8AM&context=C3d3e454ADOEgsToPDskKMpGQ49_SFh8zuShOMjOym

Here it is, i'm also playing fox on fd.

 

[Rubyiris]

More recently I've been just camping outside of people's shield. Dd, lasers, and empty hops until they push a button.

 

[Warhawk]

^ Doesn't that work better when complemented by more intense shield pressure?

 

[Strong Badam]

I do like not having to commit to anything while still being in range to punish. :3

 

[Rubyiris]

^ Doesn't that work better when complemented by more intense shield pressure?

It's better to be in close enough to react to them, but far enough away to not be in danger of counter attack.

 

[Warhawk]

It's better to be in close enough to react to them, but far enough away to not be in danger of counter attack.

No, no I was asking if that lower pressure shield pressure would work better when you mix in high pressure shield pressure game with it to make it more confusing for them when you're gonna turn the heat up and when you are gonna sit back let them make the mistake.

 

[EWC]

The empty hop shield pressure thing doesn't really make any sense if it's not mixed in with normal pressure as well. The whole reason it works so well when it does is because it plays off their expectation that you are going to do something. So when you do nothing it freaks people out and they will often do something silly. But you can't expect this to work if you do nothing literally all the time.

 

[DippnDots]

i feel like delaying the shine intentionally after a dair or something would be much more effective safer than an empty short hop for what youre talking about. If you're in their face that is

 

[Dark Hart]

shine -> empty sh -> shine grab is good

 

[Beat!]

Why not just do a delayed aerial if you intend to empty sh anyway?

 

[Sinji]

Theory for fox and falco: delaying the shine after the short hop. (shine upon landing)

Too much falco's and foxes shine as soon they input short hop.

 

[Brookman]

Try that again, only this time, use English

 

[FoxLisk]

shine -> empty sh -> shine grab is good

i cant believe that's the least bit true... everyone acts after the first shine, if you dont even attempt to make it hard for them to **** you up they're going to

 

[Pi]

i cant believe that's the least bit true... everyone acts after the first shine, if you dont even attempt to make it hard for them to **** you up they're going to

open ur mind kid

 

[unknown522]

The empty hop shield pressure thing doesn't really make any sense if it's not mixed in with normal pressure as well. The whole reason it works so well when it does is because it plays off their expectation that you are going to do something. So when you do nothing it freaks people out and they will often do something silly. But you can't expect this to work if you do nothing literally all the time.

so true. I know so many lower-level people who do the last sentence that you said.

But when I played vs people like DoH/Caroll/I.B. (sometimes)/One friendly with m2k -_-/etc. For example, since they try to PS a lot then it allows me to get in some empty-hop approaches since they will most likely put up their shield in an attempt to PS.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't like PSing because I feel the way it forces Falco to modify his game is easier than the adjustments he has to make for a good duck / jump mixup, platform movements, and generic spacing tricks. Then again, Unknown just might just be too good at small optimizations. Who knows.

That said, a lot of Falcos are beyond terrible at dealing with PS'd lasers (largely because of inexperience, largely because they don't understand just exactly how shielding so often opens up the opponent for a different style of nonsense) so it may be worthwhile to learn to milk some free wins I shouldn't get. A free dash attack or grab at some point for my character (and several others) can make a whole stock disappear :x

 

[CK Momentum]

open ur mind kid

^^ Keanu is that you? Mister Andersonnn.

Edit: on powershielding etc.: I think thats true if I ever see someone trying to actively ps lasers and they arent really hitting any of them, its a pretty easy adjustment to just advancing laser then fake advance laser empty hop grab or empty hop >>. anything. Much more difficult to get around is a good mixup/platform use/ peach floating at full hop height.

However I played against G$ a while back and he was really good at ps'ing my laser then like dd grab or dash attack>fsmashing me (he played marth). In that situation where I'm getting ps'ed against, I think best play is probably to re-evaluate my spacing/timing when I use lasers and on approaching in general and not necessarily freak out and say "I NEED TO STOP LASERING THIS ISNT WORKING" (which is what happened during those sets vs. G$) anyways in that situation I'll probably be DI'ing for a little bit so I'll have time to think about how I will adapt. :]

 

[Druggedfox]

Even if that's the case KK, it's still totally worth doing, no? It's just like any other good tactic; if you overuse certain jump mixups, you'll obviously get punished for it. It should be no different for powershielding; as long as you're simply using it as one more mixup, and in the right situations (I think PS'ing is probably very good, but only at specific spacings (matchup dependent)) there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[FoxLisk]

open ur mind kid

i mean to be fair i didnt read any of the context for like 1.5 pages haha but taken on its own that advice is terrible

 

[leffen]

I don't like PSing because I feel the way it forces Falco to modify his game is easier than the adjustments he has to make for a good duck / jump mixup, platform movements, and generic spacing tricks. Then again, Unknown just might just be too good at small optimizations. Who knows.

That said, a lot of Falcos are beyond terrible at dealing with PS'd lasers (largely because of inexperience, largely because they don't understand just exactly how shielding so often opens up the opponent for a different style of nonsense) so it may be worthwhile to learn to milk some free wins I shouldn't get. A free dash attack or grab at some point for my character (and several others) can make a whole stock disappear :x

I dont see how shielding is that bad when you're only doing it on reaction and a decent bit away (so he cant emptyhop fake you).

 

[Shroomed]

Hey Leffen let's MM at Apex.

 

[leffen]

sure, I wanna get you back for that pools set LOL.

i still have no idea on how to fight doc (you where the first and last real doc i've ever played)

ur amazing btw, underrated as fk.

 

[Shroomed]

Thanks, you're pretty good too.

Yeah but at the rate I'm going I'll be a sellout and turn into a Sheik/Marth main LOL.

I can't even express how much easier it is to move and do things as top tier characters.

I want to play your Yoshi in a few games too. My old teams partner (~2 years ago) was a Fox/Yoshi main and he was pretty good. So I'm kind of experienced in the matchup.

 

[Pi]

sure, I wanna get you back for that pools set LOL.

i still have no idea on how to fight doc (you where the first and last real doc i've ever played)

ur amazing btw, underrated as fk.

revenge

johns

slurp

i have never in my life seen a post take such a dramatic turn

 

[Druggedfox]

Thanks, you're pretty good too.

Yeah but at the rate I'm going I'll be a sellout and turn into a Sheik/Marth main LOL.

I can't even express how much easier it is to move and do things as top tier characters.

I want to play your Yoshi in a few games too. My old teams partner (~2 years ago) was a Fox/Yoshi main and he was pretty good. So I'm kind of experienced in the matchup.

You should main marth ^___^

 

[Shroomed]

You should main marth ^___^

Yeah, there's not enough good Marths.

And you can do cooler looking combos with Marth than with Sheik.

 

[Druggedfox]

that's exactly what i was goin to tell you if you asked me why marth...

LOL

 

[leffen]

lol trust me, ppl are gonna keep saying "not enough marths" and start maining him and then ice/niko/etc is gonna break out and OMG MARTH IS OP WINS 70-30 VS FALCO (m2k styyyyyle) and then EVERYONE plays him

 

[Beat!]

That would be AWESOME

Main Marth, Shroomed =B

 

[Bones0]

I had to check the thread title cause I couldn't tell where the **** I was by the conversation. XD

Don't go Marth. Doc is too badass. :D

 

[Druggedfox]

This thread title doesn't say falco in it bones

Yeah, get mind****ed

Dr. Peepee's discussion thread.

This thread is the best

 

[Zoler]

This thread really is 2 good o.o also sheik is way cooler than marth

 

[Bones0]

Smash World Forums > Super Smash Bros. Melee and 64 > Melee Character Specific > Falco > Dr Peepee's Discussion Thread

By your logic we could be talking about Brawl and it would be on topic. YOU DON'T WANT THAT? DO YOU???