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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

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I was kind of thinking about the intricacies of adaptation and conditioning, and whether or not this can be done subconsciously (adapting to your opponents patterns and punishing them without being aware of such). And whether or not one can rely on their subconscious adaptation skills to win matches for them, or whether they should try to be conscious of everything their opponent is doing.

And also how one can force themselves into the mindset of adapting. Cause I've noticed that there are matches in which I get *****, and then in the next match, I seem to just do a better job of handling my opponent better. But if you were to ask me what the difference in my game plan was between matches 1 and 2, I wouldn't be able to tell you.

But we can keep talking about Mango. That's fine, too. :)
 
D

Druggedfox

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It can most *definitely* be done subconsciously. I'm not entirely sure exactly what you're asking, or want more details about so feel free to elaborate.
 
ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

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Well, I suppose I'm more concerned with how reliable it is to rely on my subconscious to pick up what my opponent is doing. I feel as though it should be better to take a more active role when adapting, because you must be constantly noticing things, you know? I feel subconscious adapting is kind of like auto-piloting, which is not good.
 
Pi

Pi

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Oh man i can't wait to wreck some *****es at apex

here's a problem i just ran into;

at a recent tournament here, i was able to beat 3 tough competitors
and lost to 2 people who i pretty much determined i was going to lose to (plup & col bol)
so i didn't have to face losing a match i expected/hoped/wanted to win (past a certain point, i still wanted to beat plup & col bol but i had made excuses for why i could lose them to myself)

and now today, a small weekly tourney, i lost matches to players who I know i can beat, wanted to beat, but just didn't perform up to snuff and lost
and i realized that losing a match like that really threw off my momentum, i was salty and dissapointed, and at that point didn't really have a good mindset to continue trying

so basically...how do you overcome a loss that you felt you could have won, and continue to play at your best

and i suppose the same mentality for if you are down a stock, or suffer a combo or something that you felt was gay/stupid/something

so essentially
how can you keep yourself motivated & in a good mindset when things aren't going your way
and not let yourself fall deeper into despair~

p.s. i played falco today
falco is a really good character

p.p.s me and plup gonna wreck apex teams u don't even know
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix24JD4Uvv4
 
D

Druggedfox

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Niko, doing an immediately retreating aerial is also a really good option. If it's not workin for you, you probably just have to be faster
 
Aber

Aber

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I don't see the problem with talking about mango......Rom 4 is 5 days away and everyone going and the entire community was hyped to see Mango vs PP......If Mango isn't attempting to win PP will face no opposition, essentially ruining the tournament. Hype killer
 
Warhawk

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Aber said:
I don't see the problem with talking about mango......Rom 4 is 5 days away and everyone going and the entire community was hyped to see Mango vs PP......If Mango isn't attempting to win PP will face no opposition, essentially ruining the tournament. Hype killer
Click to expand...
If you feel that just because Mang0 doesn't try it ruins the tournament then you obviously didn't care too much about the tournament anyways. Besides Mang0 isn't the only person that can beat PP even if he is his best opposition in the US. Furthermore Mang0 by himself is not "ruining" the tournament. That suggest he has some responsibility in keeping the tournament exciting, and while granted a lot of times he does hype up tournaments overall that is not his responsibility and he can play how he wants..
 
ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

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Warhawk said:
If you feel that just because Mang0 doesn't try it ruins the tournament then you obviously didn't care too much about the tournament anyways. Besides Mang0 isn't the only person that can beat PP even if he is his best opposition in the US. Furthermore Mang0 by himself is not "ruining" the tournament. That suggest he has some responsibility in keeping the tournament exciting, and while granted a lot of times he does hype up tournaments overall that is not his responsibility and he can play how he wants..
Click to expand...
This. No matter how good one player his, his performance is not going to ruin the tournament. There are many more things to a tournament than how the Grand Finals look.
 
Niko45

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Druggedfox said:
Niko, doing an immediately retreating aerial is also a really good option. If it's not workin for you, you probably just have to be faster
Click to expand...
Good to know cause that's what I'm doing on autopilot right now. Faster it is.

Gotta work in those shine grabs and doubleshines too tho.
 
D

Druggedfox

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Yeah, definitely ^_^ Falco has too many sick mixups on shield.

Hmm, double shines are particularly good vs sheik I think, for various reasons, so it definitely would be a good idea to pick up on that
 
Metal Reeper

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M2K can't beat PP...
I wouldn't be surprised if Mango shows up hungover and plays like crap the second day.
Also, wobbling isn't banned =/
 
G

genkaku

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screw mango, you fools are all going to lose to my puff secondary at ROM
all I have to do is uthrow rest.
2easy
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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the status of wobbling rarely has an effect on IC player's placings. it's largely irrelevant at high level play.
 
F

Fågelholken

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I just hate not knowing whether or not Mango will play a dumb character and barely place in/outside top 10. I just don't see how it is a problem for him to at least play his best characters to the best of his (current, that is, hungover/not super warmed up) ability. So many people love watching him play, but he can't even do THAT for his fans?


I mean, if the reason was that he didn't wanna play cause he just wanted to hang out, fine. But he still enters the tourney and takes time to play the matches. Where does it say you have to play Captain Falcon and Mario if you're hungover?


Not hating on the guy, just disappointed and confused...
 
B

BigD!!!

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sometimes in falco dittos if theyre approaching with lasers i just mash A and take them out of their approach with my jab

try it, its funny

its biggest problem is when they dont laser and you just start jabbing nothing
 
Dr Peepee

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ShroudedOne said:
I was kind of thinking about the intricacies of adaptation and conditioning, and whether or not this can be done subconsciously (adapting to your opponents patterns and punishing them without being aware of such). And whether or not one can rely on their subconscious adaptation skills to win matches for them, or whether they should try to be conscious of everything their opponent is doing.

And also how one can force themselves into the mindset of adapting. Cause I've noticed that there are matches in which I get *****, and then in the next match, I seem to just do a better job of handling my opponent better. But if you were to ask me what the difference in my game plan was between matches 1 and 2, I wouldn't be able to tell you.

But we can keep talking about Mango. That's fine, too. :)
Click to expand...
This is basically fighting games and improvement 101(from my perspective), which means I could talk for ages about this particular topic the way you phrased it, but I'll hit some high points and try to explain a little from there.

Do you have a set plan for every matchup and the way to play to your best ability effectively? If you don't, then maybe you're just picking out a few vague strategies and/or waiting to react to your opponent. Honestly, if you have a plan then you should know exactly why you got hit or why you got a hit. Your plan was either a success, you failed execution(at anything below top level this still seems relevant in Melee), or your game plan needs revision. When you watch a video of yourself, can you see what you're looking to punish or what opponent movements/spacings make you feel comfortable to approach? Can you see why you chose to retreat or why you jumped out of your shield at that exact moment?

If you can explain all of your actions, then you're left with a game plan that makes sense to you. When you play, you know exactly how you're supposed to play and why playing that way is good. If you feel lost when you play, then of course you're still probably struggling to figure out your game plan or making it up on the fly. You can't devote time to reading your opponent if you're barely sure of what you're going to do.

If you somehow adapt in between games despite somewhat autopiloting, then maybe you internalized some information without knowing it(like your brain registered how many times someone DD'd before attacking without you explicitly committing that to memory or recognizing the habit). I imagine it works roughly the same as consciously internalizing information but it's much easier to "forget" even in one sitting. It also probably varies more with emotion as the information is probably also easier to remember when tied with the emotion you were feeling when you made the "read" before.


Okay enough bad rambling and theorizing lol.

CK Momentum said:
Dr. PP, do you want to money match for $1 at ROM?
Click to expand...
let's do it!

Mahone said:
Now i know why they call you dr.pp...

Also, it makes me sad you arent teaming with twitch :(

:phone:
Click to expand...
he's not coming =(

Pi said:
Oh man i can't wait to wreck some *****es at apex

here's a problem i just ran into;

at a recent tournament here, i was able to beat 3 tough competitors
and lost to 2 people who i pretty much determined i was going to lose to (plup & col bol)
so i didn't have to face losing a match i expected/hoped/wanted to win (past a certain point, i still wanted to beat plup & col bol but i had made excuses for why i could lose them to myself)

and now today, a small weekly tourney, i lost matches to players who I know i can beat, wanted to beat, but just didn't perform up to snuff and lost
and i realized that losing a match like that really threw off my momentum, i was salty and dissapointed, and at that point didn't really have a good mindset to continue trying

so basically...how do you overcome a loss that you felt you could have won, and continue to play at your best

and i suppose the same mentality for if you are down a stock, or suffer a combo or something that you felt was gay/stupid/something

so essentially
how can you keep yourself motivated & in a good mindset when things aren't going your way
and not let yourself fall deeper into despair~

p.s. i played falco today
falco is a really good character

p.p.s me and plup gonna wreck apex teams u don't even know
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix24JD4Uvv4
Click to expand...
Okay, well part of this problem comes from you treating people in tournament differently. It shouldn't matter if it's col bol, mango's fox, or some noob down the street playing fox. You need to fight FOX and only him. Feel great if you beat someone, but if you lose and it was to someone bad then you need to re-evaluate your plan for fighting whatever character you lost to. If you have emotion in your play like worrying about losing or keeping your reputation up, then this of course will only further detract from your plan. Focus on just playing the game if you want to beat Col Bol and Plup and avoid losing to worse players.

The way to overcome hard losses while still at the tournament is to go over what happened in your head if you can and determine what exactly what went wrong or what your opponent abused against you and how to counter that. On the emotional side, you need to only remember that this isn't the last tournament you're going to and your reputation can always be built back up. The sooner you focus on your game plan and improving yourself overall the sooner you can make bigger plays though, so while I can't say "just don't feel bad" I can say that you have a clear avenue toward preventing that from happening again and improving overall you can console yourself with.


also, salt.

Druggedfox said:
Yeah, definitely ^_^ Falco has too many sick mixups on shield.

Hmm, double shines are particularly good vs sheik I think, for various reasons, so it definitely would be a good idea to pick up on that
Click to expand...
Sheik likes moving OOS quickly against Falco and with her sick OOS options I don't blame her honestly. That is definitely why double shine is more useful here than in other matchups. Wish I fought Sheiks more to know all of the intricacies. XD






Edit: lmao bigD that's some truth. it's a pretty nice payoff too because those jabs are the last things you can CC/expect to CC haha.
 
Beat!

Beat!

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BigD!!! said:
sometimes in falco dittos if theyre approaching with lasers i just mash A and take them out of their approach with my jab

try it, its funny

its biggest problem is when they dont laser and you just start jabbing nothing
Click to expand...
LOOOL

Best troll move ever.
 
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