PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[LumpyCPU...]

i remember jmic syndrome.

mikey suffered a similar disorder.
instead of knee me, he'll try to nair me 3 more times because it would be more epic.... poor buddy...

 

[crush]

ah crush unbanned HERE WE GO!

I know, its great. The boards are 20% more boring and 80% more educational without me.

 

[choknater]

6 nairs in a combo, it's possible

i'm talking about mewtwo nairs though

 

[crush]

Using action replay playing as foxtwo I've done a combo with 8 nairs

 

[HugS™]

I don't think flashiness has anything to do with efficiency.

It centers around how much hype the action elicits in viewers.

You can be efficient and elicit hype (Mango)
You can be inefficient and elicit hype (Phanna)
You can be efficient and elicit low hype (Me)
You can be inefficient and elicit low hype (get better lol)

I think Leffen's point about flashy psychological warfare is moot when you also consider the alternative approach. The frustration that you induce in your opponent through a slow, drawn out, methodical dismantling can be just as detrimental to his psyche as getting rocked through flashy play.

Basically, winning in itself gives a psychological advantage, and neither of the strategies really matter if your opponent is strong headed and experienced.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Oh, Crush is unbanned. Welcome back.

Well, I just try to go for utility with whatever I do, and if it ends up looking cool, then I appreciate it. There are some characters that are flashier by nature, and what they do on a daily basis, while being easy, is probably still somewhat flashy.

Shine grab (which is ridiculously easy) is still kind of flashy (to me, anyways).

 

[Veetaak]

Shine grab might be considered flashy for some as it's not used so often. I don't blame falcos for it though, I don't like our bad grab follow-ups on most characters. I see Zhu use it alot though and I guess if you meet an opponant who is really comfortable in his shield then shine grabs are good because not only do you get some dmg off, you will also probably make them less comfortable staying in their shield later on in the set and you could use that as a mind game of sorts to do more shine-->aerial pressure for higher reward later on.

 

[choknater]

i have yet to see anyone escape a shine grab

is it possible?

 

[Veetaak]

i have yet to see anyone escape a shine grab

is it possible?

It's very possible. Shine doesn't give any ultra hitstun and grab is slow. Rolls/spot dodges/Fast attacks OoS etc will beat it.

 

[choknater]

hmmm i see i see okay

just gotta condition people to hold shield then

which isnt suuuper hard

 

[Veetaak]

hmmm i see i see okay

just gotta condition people to hold shield then

which isnt suuuper hard

Yeah, because they know that they might get ***** if they get hit by a shine/utilt

But characters with good anti shield pressure moves (Like fox and his shine OoS) will not stay in their shield for too long unless you do retreating aerials after your shine

 

[L__]

people have rolled out of my shine grabs before

makes me sad face

 

[Sinji]

Shine grab isn't flashy. It's a mix up during shield pressure.

Yea shine grab can be escaped. Shield DI backwards>wavedash oos backwards.

But it all depends on your reation timing. practice practice. =)

 

[ShroudedOne]

Shine grab isn't flashy. It's a mix up during shield pressure.

Yea shine grab can be escaped. Shield DI backwards>wavedash oos backwards.

But it all depends on your reation timing. practice practice. =)

Well, yeah, it's a nice mix up. But that doesn't make it not flashy (though it's not something to be shocked/awed by). I sometimes see people go for a shine grab when the shine already hit, and their opponent is in the air, so I'm assuming that people don't react to whether or not the shine hits during shield pressure?

 

[choknater]

yep. people just choose shine grab cuz it's really safe and a good option. so even if the shine hits people will still do it

shoutouts to isai shine grabbing in 06

 

[Van.]

I think a good standard example of flashy is fox waveshine-upsmash peach at 200% after he breaks her shield instead of just upsmashing.

 

[Veetaak]

And I think we can all say that Dark's fox is flashy.

And by that we can also say that ****ty players can be flashy :D:D:D

I hope Dark wont put this post in google translate :>

 

[tarheeljks]

nice post hugs

 

[choknater]

I think a good standard example of flashy is fox waveshine-upsmash peach at 200% after he breaks her shield instead of just upsmashing.

too good. LMAO.

 

[Sinji]

I think a good standard example of flashy is fox waveshine-upsmash peach at 200% after he breaks her shield instead of just upsmashing.

or this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUu2uvCVtn4&feature=player_detailpage#t=138s

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

how the hell is a waveshine usmash flashy

maybe shine-usmash..


and also how the hell is shinegrab flashy? it's incredibly easy for a great payout..


what is this thread i dont even

 

[ShroudedOne]

how the hell is a waveshine usmash flashy

maybe shine-usmash..


and also how the hell is shinegrab flashy? it's incredibly easy for a great payout..


what is this thread i dont even

Easiness and flashiness are not mutually exclusive. Something can be totally useful and easy, and still look cool. The issue might be that we have different definitions of flashy...

 

[JPOBS]

well his point is probably that if you are technical, then you wouldn't find a lot of stuff flashy since it'd be easy/standard for you to do

(such as the examples that were brought up)

Being able to successfully complete any move because you are technically skilled, does not in anyway mean that what you're doing isn't flashy. To put it another way, just because Lovage can hit 100 out of 100 shine bairs because he's just that technical, doesn't mean that he isn't being flashy.

I think my earlier definition summed it up pretty well.

Stuff that add little payoff but have a high technical demand are whats "flashy"

also, back to his point, the average melee player (like those who lose in second round pools for example) is hella technical.

and Hugs is right as usual.

 

[Wenbobular]

Can you name something totally useful and easy but still looks cool <_<
I don't think shinegrabbing really counts as "cool" but whatever floats your boat I guess

Also I think flashy is by definition like ... totally awesome looking if it works but is way harder / inconsistent

 

[Strong Badam]

This SOOOO much. I see a lot of players saying "omg taj's mewtwo is so flashy","Hax falcon is so flashy" and "PP plays so flashy with his combos".

Really? that isnt ****ing flashy >_>, there is nothing wrong with enjoying a optimized/gay playstyle but don't claim everyone and their mother is flashy.

Notable flashy players = Mango, Lucky, Scar, Me (sometimes ;>), Calle W etc etc

and being flashy is maaaad underrated, it puts so much pressure during tournament matches and makes you much harder to read. Its psychological warfare, its why FBI and w/e actually do walk around in suits even though it looks ******** on the surface.

kick it up a notch, show up to tourneys in a suit and play flashy

 

[Max?]

Let's go back to talking **** about each other, this new discussion is ********.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Can you name something totally useful and easy but still looks cool <_<
I don't think shinegrabbing really counts as "cool" but whatever floats your boat I guess

Also I think flashy is by definition like ... totally awesome looking if it works but is way harder / inconsistent

Yeah, shine grabbing is something that looks cool to me, I guess.

Actually, I can't think of anything that's easy and useful and looks cool, partly because it's situational, but I take your point. It's just that I don't think that flashy and useful have to be separate from each other.

And there probably isn't something that's "easy" and flashy, necessarily. The only thing that comes to mind is wave shining more than needed, but that's semi-difficult to do consistently (if they're SDI'ing the shines).

 

[choknater]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpLLfS5cV1s&feature=feedu

holy ****. happy feet.

watch game 2

 

[Strong Badam]

lol wow get ***** crush

 

[choknater]

soooo

that last stock

was what we call flashy

edit: actually i take that back. that edge guard looked like he turned around with his shield for the bair, but realized it wouldn't reach so he did a shine turnaround spike. too good. LOL zhu mindgaming me making me think he's flashy when he's just making better decisions

 

[ShroudedOne]

So...we've learned that flashiness can't be defined objectively enough for everyone to agree. But we all know it when we see it.

EDIT: Except for Mango's side B spikes. Everyone can say that those are flashy.

 

[choknater]

i wanna see hugs bomb-nair someone. FLASHYYYYY

 

[Brookman]

The frustration that you induce in your opponent through a slow, drawn out, methodical dismantling can be just as detrimental to his psyche as getting rocked through flashy play.

This x 100,000.

The word dismantling can't be stressed enough.

 

[Mogwai]

It's actually almost always more detrimental to his psyche in my experience.

 

[Winston]

the slow, methodical dismantling is more detrimental to his psyche in the long term (long term as in the entire set), and flashiness is more intimidating/more likely to benefit you in pressure in the short term, I think

 

[Lightsyde]

So the lesson is:

Be really flashy and scary for the first 45 seconds

and then play methodical/boring/campy as **** for the rest.

Right guys?

Yeah, let's talk about something else.

 

[choknater]

i like this discussion

 

[Sinji]

Being flashy has its benefits.

It unlocks your confidence in a sense that you become unaware of what your opponent is doing.

CAUTION!!

You will spiral into this lazy type world where you play auto pilot.

 

[ShroudedOne]

So the lesson is:

Be really flashy and scary for the first 45 seconds

and then play methodical/boring/campy as **** for the rest.

Right guys?

Yeah, let's talk about something else.

Well that's not exactly what's being said...

Psychological warfare is fun. Ten times more so as Jiggs. But I think it's an important part of winning matches.

 

[Veetaak]

lol, do what ever you want. Short hair, don't care or Mr. Serious. Either way work in this game for kids =)