PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[straight8]

idk man, shielding on a platform is like the best thing you can do from a defensive position. that, and getting the **** down.

Wait what?

Yeah cause there's a best thing from a defensive postition on a platform.
Maybe you should right a book on your smash experiences. I need a good laugh.
I just wonder at some of these people sometimes lol...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Wanna break the marth metagame? next time he throws you on a platform and you end up shielding a utilt, shield drop dair->**** combo off it.

 

[choknater]

dang. that sounds godlike LOL.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

how do you shield drop

 

[choknater]

you have to tilt the stick downwards at in a certain way that you fall through the platform instead of spot dodge

pretty difficult, i can't do it consistently myself

 

[Divinokage]

I'm starting to get it as muscle memory, I did a lot today surpringsly.. though I'm not sure if I can do it on command yet though. lol. There's a timing to go from up to down on the joystick which allows to fall through. Well that's how I do it.

 

[choknater]

i feel salty tight whenever i see you post. ahhhhhh!!!!!

kage i think your existence is gonna keep me playing melee.

 

[JPOBS]

Wait what?

Yeah cause there's a best thing from a defensive postition on a platform.
Maybe you should right a book on your smash experiences. I need a good laugh.
I just wonder at some of these people sometimes lol...

If this post was supposed to mean "being on a platform sucks all around *insert ad hominem*" then....yea ok? thanks for contributing I guess?

But seriously, watch any high level play. When people get put on a platform from a throw or something, they almost always shield and tilt down to prevent pokes. That's because they aren't directly vulnerable to attack in that position. Its a common tactic to jump on a platform and lightshield while your opponent is respawning. Or did you just think people were shielding on platforms for the lulz?

Couple that with the fact that you can still shai drop, jump, attack, wd oos etc, and I don't think it's a strech to say "shielding is the best defensive option on platforms."

 

[Divinokage]

i feel salty tight whenever i see you post. ahhhhhh!!!!!

kage i think your existence is gonna keep me playing melee.

Haha.. Suffer!!! =D

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i wanna watch kage vs choknater.

epic.
choknater, we should mm next time i see you. (if i ever do)

 

[straight8]

If this post was supposed to mean "being on a platform sucks all around *insert ad hominem*" then....yea ok? thanks for contributing I guess?

But seriously, watch any high level play. When people get put on a platform from a throw or something, they almost always shield and tilt down to prevent pokes. That's because they aren't directly vulnerable to attack in that position. Its a common tactic to jump on a platform and lightshield while your opponent is respawning. Or did you just think people were shielding on platforms for the lulz?

Couple that with the fact that you can still shai drop, jump, attack, wd oos etc, and I don't think it's a strech to say "shielding is the best defensive option on platforms."

i was just laughing at the fact that you think that there is such thing as a best option when in a defensive postiion on a platform

cause you arent reacting to who youre playing or anything, that wouldnt make any sense at all.

and its not like everyone in their mom know that the #1 noob reaction when your on a platform and under pressure is to shield, so no way anyone is going to know what youre doing and how to **** you.

 

[JPOBS]

the best option out of a set of terrible options, is still the best option.

but whatever

 

[LumpyCPU...]

the best option out of a set of terrible options, is still the best option.

but whatever

i don't think he's saying that all the options are bad.

i think he's saying that you shouldn't have a "go-to" option and that different options are better for different scenarios. "being defensive on a platform" is too broad a scenario to have one specific "best option".

straight8, sorry if i'm just putting words in your mouth.

Spoiler

"words" is what i call my penis.

 

[Druggedfox]

Macman:

@darksyde

To shield drop you just have to get your controller to a certain point far enough towards "down" on the control stick. The only way speed affects this is if you move your control stick down too slowly in which case you'll just keep angling your shield more and more downwards... but you have to be pretty slow to be doing it like this. To learn it just slowly move your control stick down and you'll shield drop eventually, and try to figure out the exact part of the control stick you need to hit. Then just work on moving to it faster; it's honestly not that hard to abuse, because you can actually be moving your control stick down *while* they're hitting your shield, so as soon as you get out of stun you'll have reached the shield drop point of your control stick.

/shield dropping is broken

@Lumpy: I think it happens quite frequently that good players end up shielding above opponents. Marth easily forces you into those situatoins, if you're trying to run away on platforms from a character with bad vertical mobility (read: peach) you can use shield dropping to catch them off guard with a quick change in trajectory (shai dropping) or even just sitting still in shield for a bit to trick them into thinking you don't have any options besides WDing OoS. Shield dropping is very powerful in the current metagame because people haven't had the chance to adapt to it; there are still ways to deal with it, and cover options, but when shield dropping first begins to be prominent in the metagame the vast majority of people won't be able to deal with it.

 

[JPOBS]

lovage shai drops offensively, all the time. its so damn sexy. its like "ok he's on a platform, his positioning is compromised, how is he gonna get off...oh **** he just did a shai drop drill shine combo raaaaappee"

 

[LumpyCPU...]

Macman:



@Lumpy: I think it happens quite frequently that good players end up shielding above opponents. Marth easily forces you into those situatoins, if you're trying to run away on platforms from a character with bad vertical mobility (read: peach) you can use shield dropping to catch them off guard with a quick change in trajectory (shai dropping) or even just sitting still in shield for a bit to trick them into thinking you don't have any options besides WDing OoS. Shield dropping is very powerful in the current metagame because people haven't had the chance to adapt to it; there are still ways to deal with it, and cover options, but when shield dropping first begins to be prominent in the metagame the vast majority of people won't be able to deal with it.

i really don't play often at all and other than a few genesis2 videos, i haven't been keeping up with what's going on too much lately.

now that i think of it, i used to play against marth as fox every day of my life.
i would ALWAYS end up shielding on a platform. i think the common response i gave was to jump out which became predictable very fast.

in the future, i'll try not to assume i know too much about this game.
i guess i just feel like pretending i'm good. lol

 

[straight8]

i don't think he's saying that all the options are bad.

i think he's saying that you shouldn't have a "go-to" option and that different options are better for different scenarios. "being defensive on a platform" is too broad a scenario to have one specific "best option".

straight8, sorry if i'm just putting words in your mouth.

Spoiler

"words" is what i call my penis.

i mean kind of?

im just saying there is going to be a different best option (and sometimes no best option at all) in every single situation.

sometimes you have guaranteed safe ones. sometimes there is no best one and you have to make a read, or maybe you play a match up a certain way against your opponent, so a certain option is "best" for you.

The whole point is jpobs is one of the worst posters on smashboards, and he needs to stop giving advice. hes had this same authoritarian, narrow-minded view of the game for like a year and a half, and walking in every thread to see him making stupid theorycraft is just a little bit annoying.

and yes your **** is fine

so kids, if you learn anything today, just learn to ignore pretty much everything jpobs says, cause its probably really wrong. and if its right, then he probably got it from another source, and you should go there instead.

 

[onionchowder]

im just saying there is going to be a different best option (and sometimes no best option at all) in every single situation.

sometimes you have guaranteed safe ones. sometimes there is no best one and you have to make a read, or maybe you play a match up a certain way against your opponent, so a certain option is "best" for you.

The whole point is jpobs is one of the worst posters on smashboards, and he needs to stop giving advice. hes had this same authoritarian, narrow-minded view of the game for like a year and a half, and walking in every thread to see him making stupid theorycraft is just a little bit annoying.

Saying "different situations have different responses" is not being very insightful, and ****-talking another poster isn't what most people would call 'contributing'.

There are many situations where, after being hit onto a platform, the best response is to shield ASAP. This is a fact. Quit being such a ****.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

and yes your **** is fine

this is all i took from your post.



lol i "theorycraft" and i suck at this game.

 

[straight8]

Saying "different situations have different responses" is not being very insightful, and ****-talking another poster isn't what most people would call 'contributing'.

There are many situations where, after being hit onto a platform, the best response is to shield ASAP. This is a fact. Quit being such a ****.

there are many situations where you shield on a platform and its the "best" option in a situation.

ok then. who doesnt agree?
im not gonna restate what i said to make clear the difference, cause at this point you just want to pick a fight.

different situations have different responses. its so basic and true that it doesnt need to be insightful, it just needs to be correct. a player doesnt have to make up stuff that isnt true to be "insightful," he just has to be bad.

stop trying to pick a fight with me, i just dont want people who are still learning to think that shielding on a platform is the somehow "best" thing and have their development as players delayed by that mentality.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

straight8, you need to calm down.

1) In a defensive position on the platform, shielding is the best option. Why? Because they cant grab you.... Them attempting to land on the platform and grab leaves a very large amount of time open to attack or escape. If they attack your shield you then are able to retreat or escape in their lag (and even punish in some situations).

2) There is no perfect answer. If you do the same thing every time, you will lose to good players.

3) You claim people are picking fights... yet you are the one that came in here and started it all.

4) JPOBS is one of the better posters on this site. You aren't.

 

[Battlecow]

Any news on that MANGO POST?

Yes, we will keep passive-aggressively asking for it as if we had a right to it until you give it to us.

 

[Veetaak]

Any news on that MANGO POST?

Yes, we will keep passive-aggressively asking for it as if we had a right to it until you give it to us.

Maybe there is so much to know about Mango that PP decided to write a whole book about it

^..^

 

[mers]

Scenario:

Peach is beneath the ledge, possibly floating, but definitely without her doublejump. I, Falco, am onstage, not on the ledge. Peach is obviously gonna parasol at some point. If I try to get on the ledge, she simply up-Bs and hits me, and makes it back onstage for free.

Am I forced to let her have the ledge, or can I do something better? Dair loses to parasol every time. Sometimes I consider charging dsmash because of the invincibility, but I'm not sure how well that works. You can't CC parasol, right?

TL;DR: wat does i do against parasol?

parasol parasol parasol. It stops looking like a word after you type it enough.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I think a spaced dsmash will work. Sorta like marth's upb, peach's is strong while the hitbox is out but there is a small gap between the hitbox being out and her actually grabbing the edge. Wait for the peak of the upb then dsmash.

 

[Winston]

if she's floating at a height where she'll sweetspot the edge, short hop backwards over the parasol and grab the edge

If she's higher than that, dsmash like sveet said

 

[Lightsyde]

if she's floating at a height where she'll sweetspot the edge, short hop backwards over the parasol and grab the edge

This seems dangerous as hell to me.

 

[JPOBS]

i mean kind of?

im just saying there is going to be a different best option (and sometimes no best option at all) in every single situation.

sometimes you have guaranteed safe ones. sometimes there is no best one and you have to make a read, or maybe you play a match up a certain way against your opponent, so a certain option is "best" for you.

The whole point is jpobs is one of the worst posters on smashboards, and he needs to stop giving advice. hes had this same authoritarian, narrow-minded view of the game for like a year and a half, and walking in every thread to see him making stupid theorycraft is just a little bit annoying.

and yes your **** is fine

so kids, if you learn anything today, just learn to ignore pretty much everything jpobs says, cause its probably really wrong. and if its right, then he probably got it from another source, and you should go there instead.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i just let her have the ledge.

since she can't ledge jump, her options become very punishable.
even if you can't punish, i don't think a space animal should take ANY kind of risk like that against a peach near the edge. spacies making bad decisions near the edge is why they can lose to good peaches.

 

[Winston]

This seems dangerous as hell to me.

Well, the idea is you start the short hop before peach starts her parasol, so that by the time the parasol hitbox gets high enough to hit you you're already behind it. It should work if she's floating as low as she can to sweetspot the edge and avoid dsmash.

try it in friendlies, it's not dangerous if you don't use it at the wrong times, and the reward is very good

I'm not making this up; it's a situational edgeguard that works, not a gamble >__>

 

[genkaku]

shout "peach is gay" and knock the controller from their hands.
Works every time.

 

[Lightsyde]

I'll play around with it (SH'ing over her UpB) and see if I have any luck. I almost kinda like the idea of letting her have the edge...

Then I think of her Dsmashing me and I immediately feel revolted by the thought of letting her have the edge.

Genkaku may be on to something. Sounds like a prolific use of Melee zeal.

Also, Sammmmedfox, thanks for the explanation. I'm looking forward to messing with it. I'm already imagining gay stuff to do with it.

Double also, clarification on what people keep calling "Shai dropping"?

 

[Sinji]

Any news on that MANGO POST?

Yes, we will keep passive-aggressively asking for it as if we had a right to it until you give it to us.

lol

You must be a real Mango fan boy.

play like you and think of yourself as a top ppl.

 

[Divinokage]

lol

You must be a real Mango fan boy.

play like you and think of yourself as a top ppl.

Lol.. is it not okay to be someone's fanboy? I think its ok to respect a top player up to the point when you face them then you have to destroy him before you think he's too sexy for you. lol.

 

[Brookman]

@ straight8:

Don't worry about Jpobs, he thinks he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Lightsyde]

Brookman: Is that L in your avatar? If so, respect.

Also, loooool

 

[Winston]

Double also, clarification on what people keeping calling "Shai dropping"?

It's dash shield drop.

Same mechanic as a shield drop, but (debatably) easier to do because you can dash, shield, and then slide your control stick downwards along the edge after shielding (you're already holding forward from dashing). Having the edge to slide it along kind of makes it easier to achieve the downward position you need for shield dropping, without going too fast that you spotdodge.

Obviously not for use from a defensive position, but it does give you more options to move around platforms with. Lovage and Zhu use it the most out of high profile smashers atm, afaik

 

[Sinji]

Lol.. is it not okay to be someone's fanboy? I think its ok to respect a top player up to the point when you face them then you have to destroy him before you think he's too sexy for you. lol.

I mentioned fanboy cause he asked the question twice. Sure, it's nice to take interest in top players performance, but at the end of the day, its about you. How you are as a ppl and the level your trying to get at. Or you can just tomahawk and get the crowd hype. =D

 

[Divinokage]

I mentioned fanboy cause he asked the question twice. Sure, it's nice to take interest in top players performance, but at the end of the day, its about you. How you are as a ppl and the level your trying to get at. Or you can just tomahawk and get the crowd hype. =D

It's more WHERE you are in brackets that will generate hype in general. You kinda have to be extremely good. =P Also of course, it depends on your style too.

Also, those eternal fanboys are usually the ones that have given up inside already. It's like having a child and you stopped following your dreams in hopes someone else can do it for you. Ya sure you can try to improve but it's most likely going to be half-hearted attempts at doing so, you won't want it enough. =P

 

[Sinji]

It's more WHERE you are in brackets that will generate hype in general. You kinda have to be extremely good. =P Also of course, it depends on your style too.

Also, those eternal fanboys are usually the ones that have given up inside already. It's like having a child and you stopped following your dreams in hopes someone else can do it for you. Ya sure you can try to improve but it's most likely going to be half-hearted attempts at doing so, you won't want it enough. =P

I agree with you perfectly. they gave up already and tend to imagine their in GF when they haven't practice or done anything to get to that level.