PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Dr Peepee]

Dude just aerial their shield with any aerial, and shine grab. I guarantee you they won't spot dodge it unless you conditioned them REALLY HARD by doing it 2043904 times in a row to them.

you know you can shine-grab before they can sheild grab right? There's a lot of stun on their part because of the shine hitting their shield

With fox it's not as good. You can shield grab Fox's shine grab, but with Falco, Falco will grab you first because of his shine-shield-stun on his opponent

Hmmmmmm alright you know what Jason? I'll see what sorts of funny conditioning I can get if I shine grab a lot.

Should be interesting. =)

 

[Mogwai]

Dude just aerial their shield with any aerial, and shine grab. I guarantee you they won't spot dodge it unless you conditioned them REALLY HARD by doing it 2043904 times in a row to them.

this is a pretty good point because buffering a spotdodge after Falco's shine will get you futtbucked by basically anything other than Shine -> grab, whereas getting grabbed by Falco typically isn't something you're worrying about playing against Falco.

you know you can shine-grab before they can sheild grab right? There's a lot of stun on their part because of the shine hitting their shield

yea, iirc, Falco has a 2 frame advantage over 7 frame grabbers with shine -> grab.

With fox it's not as good. You can shield grab Fox's shine grab, but with Falco, Falco will grab you first because of his shine-shield-stun on his opponent

I thought Fox was still a frame ahead of his opponent with shine -> grab, but I never paid that much attention to Fox frames. At worst I think it's an even frame count so it would come down to controller port there.

 

[FoxLisk]

ive been grabbing a lot lately cause ive been playing a guy who hardly ever rolls/WDs/dodges from shield. and he's playing peach so i cant just pummel his shield, he'll nair me out. so i have to grab a LOT. it's kinda fun.

 

[Brookman]

If he nairs out of shield often that should become easy to punish. Like Pobs said, bait his nair out of siheld and fsmash/bair/etc etc etc

 

[FoxLisk]

yeah i could be bairing it more. i dont see how you can fsmash a nair oos though. and just grabbing a lot is fine... it gets me one aerial just as well as bairing him would.

 

[Brookman]

You're looking at the concept of shield pressure wrong. If you know your opponent is prone to Nair out of shield, we'll say after your first nair shine you can omit the shine all together and space away with a dash/wavedash and (unless it's a full jump nair) you can fsmash with ease.


That's how I wlil usually act out of shield. I'll wait to see the shine then attempt to retaliate out of shield. The shine is usually my cue so if my opponent doesn't shine and instead attempts to grab my right out of his aerial then it's likely he'll succeed.

 

[Cactuar]

What is all this science and magic. Just kick them.

 

[tw1n]

What is all this science and magic. Just kick them.

Hmm... I can do both. But magic is so much fun.

 

[unknown522]

Wtf DSW is the prettiest Falco get that **** out of here. =)

I have to disagree kind sir. PP's falco is so sex.

Mango too

With fox it's not as good. You can shield grab Fox's shine grab

I'm pretty sure that's wrong m2k.

doesn't fox have +1 frame advantage on shield?

 

[Kanelol]

What is all this science and magic. Just kick them.

<3<3<3

10<3s

 

[Druggedfox]

Both falco's and fox's shine grabs have a frame advantage over the opponent; however, its a lot easier to time a shield grab correctly than to do a shine grab frame perfectly. If I'm not focusing on doing shine grabs at TOP speed all the time, I've had people shield grab me out of them. Note that characters like sheik/fox/falco have OoS options that are FASTER than shield grab and thus beat shine grab and are safe vs falco's OTHER options (unlike buffering a spot dodge).

If you do bair shine-->grab your opponents will catch onto it really quickly; it doesn't take more than once for your opponent to even become aware of it, conditioning 101.

@Mogwai

Shine turn around grab really isn't that bad, just focus on doing the turn around first (aka do it slowly and deliberately at first) and over time just speed it up. Sure it might not be as great at first because its so slow, but I'm sure it'll quickly pick up in speed.

 

[JPOBS]

when i shine turn around grab, i dont even turn around per se. I kinda just hit the stick diagonally upwards in the opposite direction I'm facing and then input the grab.

cheat to win.

apperently its mogwai's birthday according to smashboards. Shoutouts to mogwai

 

[Deleted member]

falco's shinegrab has frame advantage because his shine stuns longer on shield than fox's, fox you can grab him or do other fast things oos, falco you just kinda get grabbed.

edit: axe has the prettiest falco.

 

[tw1n]

Happy BDay Mogwai!

 

[Divinokage]

Bah I was just half trolling, Ryan.

 

[Jake13]

i can't get shine, turnaround jc grab on shields or even if i hit the person with the shine. i think i've gotten it once, so the timing must be diff than the normal shine jc grab but iono if its slower or faster or what.

anyone wanna shed some light?

i assumed it was the same as like shine - turnaround bair. i can't do that ish if the shine connects. but its easy peasy just in the urr

 

[Mew2King]

Look I never tested the frames for shine grabs except from trial and error with a friend for like 2 minutes

and I was able to shield grab their shine grabs a lot. I forget who I tested it with

but when fighting Falco, Falco's shield stun is a lot more, and he can grab way before I can. I speak from experience only, and I know Falco's shine grab is way better than Fox's

 

[Rubyiris]

if it helps you, then by all means, play green.

my falco grew up in the shia/chops era, much like many other falcos, so i generally play neutral

zhu blue is also kinda nice though
but last time i saw him play, he used green =(

My Falco grew up in the Forward/Shiz era, but I played Blue up until recently. I would occasionally play green and use Forward's tag, but I didn't completely switch to green until after DGDTJ

how can you mention green falco and NOT mention PPMD?

Because PP's falco is ugly. No offence PP, your falco has absolutely no style, but you're the best so it's ok. It's all about the AZ falcos. We have insurmountable style.

Also Shiz is mad ugly too. :\

Chops is p cool tho. he does **** I've never seen any other falco do.

Also; Zhu originally played green. Watch his old videos.

 

[Dr Peepee]

It's cool I think all of AZ except Axe hates me anyway LOL.

Can't please everyone.

 

[Divinokage]

My Falco grew up in the Forward/Shiz era, but I played Blue up until recently. I would occasionally play green and use Forward's tag, but I didn't completely switch to green until after DGDTJ



Because PP's falco is ugly. No offence PP, your falco has absolutely no style, but you're the best so it's ok. It's all about the AZ falcos. We have insurmountable style.

Also Shiz is mad ugly too. :\

Chops is p cool tho. he does **** I've never seen any other falco do.

Also; Zhu originally played green. Watch his old videos.

Pff you know nothing of styles if you talk like that lol.

 

[V3ctorMan]

^Kevin I'm soooo ashamed of you.... I talked to you so much at Pound V about how I knew you wouldn't let me down.. and how I wanted to possibly make your videos and stuff...

^You bring me to tears Kevin. ;_;

</3 Dr. Peepee </3

 

[Dr Peepee]

GUH

hasty wording johns, I meant to say hate the way I played, as I know you explicitly stated a couple times before that you have a somewhat strong dislike for my Falco's playstyle haha.

I know you talked me up, so my mistake Vman <3 won't happen again.

 

[V3ctorMan]

It's not a strong disliking of your Falco per se... Im just a type of player that prefers flash > effectiveness....

It's a personal issue that even holds myself back as a player... I would rather look bad*ss looking and lose all day rather than... look not as cool and win....

I feel sorta bad, because I never gave Axe that chance to make that decision for himself, now granted I still think he'd prefer flash but... it's just I like to look cool... I'm an entertainment based player.. ...

You may not be my fave Falco...but that's no relevance to how much I respect you as a player... remember that Kevin...

<3 Peepee <3

 

[JPOBS]

Jake: pretty sure hine turnaround anything is slower than than the regular direction because you have to account for turn around animation frames.

Because PP's falco is ugly. No offence PP, your falco has absolutely no style, but you're the best so it's ok. It's all about the AZ falcos. We have insurmountable style.

Also Shiz is mad ugly too. :\

Chops is p cool tho. he does **** I've never seen any other falco do.

Also; Zhu originally played green. Watch his old videos.

I honestly think you say ridiculous things on purpose even when you don't believe it at all, just to get people to respond to you.

it works though i guess, play on playa.

 

[Druggedfox]

There is beauty in efficiency and effectiveness, its just a different type of attractiveness. While PP doesn't fit the flashy mold, watching consistent clean execution and optimal choices is an art in and of itself that is really fun to both watch and play.

*That said, flashy falco is equally great to watch and such, but I think most people know that =p

 

[Dark Hart]

watching constant good decisions > flashy techy Falco

 

[tarheeljks]

w/e gets the w. unless it's gay obv

 

[Brookman]

Dear PP,

How much do you rely on experience, instinct, and concious thought in any given set.

For example, in a match like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0O2e-lFABc

as opposed to a match like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPfXPxxb09w&feature=related

 

[Rubyiris]

Jake: pretty sure hine turnaround anything is slower than than the regular direction because you have to account for turn around animation frames.

I honestly think you say ridiculous things on purpose even when you don't believe it at all, just to get people to respond to you.

it works though i guess, play on playa.

If you think that, you're getting the wrong impression. I've always been a contrary person, and not out of some arbitrary reason to be different from the norm. I say the things I mean, and mean the things I say. I'll back my words and opinion 100% of the way.

PP's falco is ugly. Shiz's falco is ugly. I do not enjoy watching either of them play. Does that mean I disrespect them? No.

I've never understood why people always get this impression of me. It's like people are doing everything in their power to deny who I am.

I am not like the rest of SWF. I am not tactful, and I will always post my absolute, most honest opinion, even if it's the most hurtful, assholish thing possible, and many of my views on smash are contrary to what most people think. Ironically, most old school players share my view point, so it always amuses me when someone tells me off for being different, then when an old, respected player says the same thing a week later and everyone hops on their **** like the second coming.

 

[JPOBS]

I've never understood why people always get this impression of me.

its mostly because you always have an opinion that is entirely contrary to the norm no matter what the topic is. I mean its fine to have different opinions here and there, but when every single opinion you voice is one that almost no one else would agree with or a minority, you come off as trying to be different just for the sake of being different.

I mean you swear its honestly what you believe i'm just explaining how you give off that impression. I mean shiz's falco? ugly? dude's has one of the flashiest, fastest, "I DONT GIVE A **** IMMA BEAT YO @SS" playstyles that ever existed. To hear you (or anyone) say its ugly is just wierd.

whatever sinks your sub i guess.

 

[Brookman]

Take it to PM, guys.


/infracts you

 

[JPOBS]

sorry

10wonthappenagains.

 

[Rubyiris]

its mostly because you always have an opinion that is entirely contrary to the norm no matter what the topic is. I mean its fine to have different opinions here and there, but when every single opinion you voice is one that almost no one else would agree with or a minority, you come off as trying to be different just for the sake of being different.

I mean you swear its honestly what you believe i'm just explaining how you give off that impression. I mean shiz's falco? ugly? dude's has one of the flashiest, fastest, "I DONT GIVE A **** IMMA BEAT YO @SS" playstyles that ever existed. To hear you (or anyone) say its ugly is just wierd.

whatever sinks your sub i guess.

1. Shiz was flashy back in like 06. He's really bland now.

2. Shiz lacks the finesse that Vman and Axe has. he doesn't extend his combos, he sets up good fsmashes and then edgeguards. That's not flashy. That's generic, good falco stuff, and that doesn't really entertain me. He doesn't even have the fluid movement, and great mixups that Zhu and Vman have, or the innovative move choice of Chops.

 

[unknown522]

Look I never tested the frames for shine grabs except from trial and error with a friend for like 2 minutes

and I was able to shield grab their shine grabs a lot. I forget who I tested it with

but when fighting Falco, Falco's shield stun is a lot more, and he can grab way before I can. I speak from experience only, and I know Falco's shine grab is way better than Fox's

ok. Well, if it ain't broke don't fix it.


edit: @ tristan, you're ****ing awesome!

edit 2 @ Kage: True.

 

[Rubyiris]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=12403792#post12403792

Just going to leave this for the falco boards to muse over.

It insults me when people don't take my posts seriously. Read that, give input, etc, just stop with the mindset that my posts have some deeper meaning to them, are some sort of subtle troll, or even a cry for attention.

 

[Kanelol]

I get it, it's dat AZ bias

To be fair, Axe's falco is probably the sexiest one I've ever seen. For all 3 matches i've ever seen him play with falco.

 

[Rubyiris]

I get it, it's dat AZ bias

To be fair, Axe's falco is probably the sexiest one I've ever seen. For all 3 matches i've ever seen him play with falco.

Honestly it really isn't region bias. I could live right ****ing next to shia/chops or drpp and I'd still favor vman/axe/zhu/westballz

 

[ZetTroxX]

In which situations shield drops are useful? Sure it makes you faster in general, but in which particular situations there´s a real difference?

 

[Veetaak]

I also enjoy Axe's falco sexiness. Mango, Shiz and Dr PP are all sexy in my eyes aswell. Dr PP's consistency is very inspirational.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i hope pp wins the next national by lasering everyone till they're at 999% then killing them with ftilt.

then we'll talk about style.