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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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matchup theory is naked, sultry, and perverse

presenting it is the most scandalous thing a smasher can do

let alone a top level player

i'm not sure my virgin eyes could bear seeing someone like kevin debased that way

it's so...

filthy...
 
leffen

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KirbyKaze said:
I think Shiz's Fox would lose virtually every set to his Falco if they ever could play it but w/e.
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hi
I disagree, he would actually punish his horrible recovery / ledge game because he has realized that he only goes straight for the stage EVERY SINGLE TIME >_>.

Oh and what would he do when spamming rolls wont work when the opponent is respawning?
 
D

Druggedfox

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^He would very likely roll some more followed by doing lots of cool combos that make people forget his rolling
 
Mogwai

Mogwai

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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to
leffen said:
hi
I disagree, he would actually punish his horrible recovery / ledge game because he has realized that he only goes straight for the stage EVERY SINGLE TIME >_>.

Oh and what would he do when spamming rolls wont work when the opponent is respawning?
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ummmmmmm

what?

his Fox has bad habbits too. His Falco looks pro as **** vs. Fox and his Fox looks like a fairly generic top level Fox. there's no doubt in my mind that Shiz's Falco would run train on his Fox short of Shiz-clone-playing-Fox being able to read Shiz-clone-playing-Falco's mind without it being reciprocated, which is an even stupider hypothetical to get into.
 
Dr Peepee

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Mogwai said:
na, yall are crazy, Falco ***** everyone, especially Fox.

and unless we assume that everything other than KDJ vs. PC @ vegas was a case of Falco players being generally way better than Fox players, history is on my side (with regards to Fox, lol).
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Well, I don't really care for history since Fox players haven't had the technical ability to handle Falco's stuff for the longest time and now they just aren't using it well enough. I go by theory, not history. I've seen the way to counter all of Falco's stuff and I can't help it if Fox players don't abuse that better.

Umbreon said:
i was playing devil's advocate to poke at kevin yielding no concessions in falco's favor pretty much ever. i think falco beats fox, and is a better character (both independently).

falco is a manufactured **** machine with what is pretty obviously the best offense and to treat him otherwise strikes me as silly.
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lmao <3

Druggedfox said:
This thread title is the best
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It is now kinda

JPOBS said:
at first i read this and as like 0_o

then i read this and lol'd. ya PP seems to think falco straight up loses every matchup within the top 8 sans falcon lol

this is what i've been saying for ages and made this exact argument a few weeks ago.

Falco players have always been better than fox players since forever. whether thats due mostly to falco being totally amazing or just coincidence, i can't decide (but the logical man in me wants to assume its the former)

I flip flop on who wins the matchup every time i play cuz they both do some homo **** to the other.
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I don't like giving matchup opinions because it always seems like the opponent can do so much and yet they don't take advantage of it and then I get called out for noticing it. Eh.

I know Falco loses to Sheik(I'm pretty sure that's his worst matchup I decided the other day), loses to Marth(it's probably no more than 55/45 though I'm starting to think but I'm not sure), loses to Puff(Hbox agrees on 55/45), pretty sure he loses to Fox(Shiz and Mango both agree) but it's tough to say, I dunno about Peach I'm iffy on her...I wouldn't be surprised at all deciding Falco beat Peach I guess I'll call this one even for now lol, beats Falcon(not **** or anything but he does), and I dunno on ICs. I'd rather just focus on how to beat them personally, especially since no one listens about who wins anyway. =p

Mogwai said:
w/e, you go ask most Fox players and they'll tell you Falco wins. Everyone thinks they've got it harder.
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When I see a Fox besides Mango counter Falco's stuff I'll agree.

DJRome said:
idea mustard

edit: lol kevin, will i have to lay out your matchup theory for the world to see?
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I really don't care, and my Peach opinion ***** your idea. =)

Mogwai said:
ummmmmmm

what?

his Fox has bad habbits too. His Falco looks pro as **** vs. Fox and his Fox looks like a fairly generic top level Fox. there's no doubt in my mind that Shiz's Falco would run train on his Fox short of Shiz-clone-playing-Fox being able to read Shiz-clone-playing-Falco's mind without it being reciprocated, which is an even stupider hypothetical to get into.
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LOL @ all of this

You can be a generic good Fox and still adapt and beat an opponent. That's what would happen there I assume Shiz is trying to say.

I don't really have an opinion on the subject of shiz vs shiz lol.
 
Dr Peepee

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I said I'm not sure what to think about it so it could be even.

My ideas change all of the time anyway so your theory is just silly. <.<
 
D

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my theory on falco vs peach:

if she floats, shoot her so she can't.

ban FD. CP to pokemon. if they ban pokemon, CP to RC. if you suck at RC, stop sucking.

sit on top of the middle high platform on neutrals. when she comes up after you with her slow *** jump, dair whatever she does. if she takes the platform somehow, shoot her off of it. repeat as necessary.

if peach can powershield well, don't care. keep shooting. preferably out of PS > dash attack distance.

light shield everything. you don't really want to counter attack peach anyway, so the normal shield doesn't do you any favors.

don't get ***** by dsmash.

this is about 3-4x usual the amount of advice I give in any particular MU lol.
 
Sinji

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For peach, heres my theory,

Spam lasers when your far away from her'

Stay on the middle of the stage. This will lessen her options.

Substitute Falco's u-smash for d-tilt. Falco's tail is very affective, especially how peach tends to sheild upwards.

Like what Umbreon said, light shield everything.
 
Dr Peepee

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If I can make theory like that work vs Armada then I'll agree Umbreon. A lot of my stuff is always pending application vs good players.

I pretty much agree with that though. I would think turnip and DJ aerials would make Dair camping somewhat difficult though.
 
JPOBS

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Dr Peepee said:
I don't like giving matchup opinions because it always seems like the opponent can do so much and yet they don't take advantage of it and then I get called out for noticing it. Eh.

I know Falco loses to Sheik(I'm pretty sure that's his worst matchup I decided the other day), loses to Marth(it's probably no more than 55/45 though I'm starting to think but I'm not sure), loses to Puff(Hbox agrees on 55/45), pretty sure he loses to Fox(Shiz and Mango both agree) but it's tough to say, I dunno about Peach I'm iffy on her...I wouldn't be surprised at all deciding Falco beat Peach I guess I'll call this one even for now lol, beats Falcon(not **** or anything but he does), and I dunno on ICs. I'd rather just focus on how to beat them personally, especially since no one listens about who wins anyway. =p
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for the record, I'm not calling you out or anything along those lines.

I just find it interesting that most top players don't think that the character they use is the best. m2k has never thought marth/sheik were the best. mango used to say puff sucks. You think falco loses a variety of matchups. Hbox thinks puff is 5th.
That may because top players can see holes others can't and thus envision their character losing despite evidence to the contrary.
Its just an interesting phenomenon.
 
Roneblaster

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JPOBS said:
cant wait to **** u in less than a weeks time :awesome:
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unknown522 said:
I think I'd side bet on JPOBS. Not gonna lie.
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i feel honored that you would even think its close enough to make a public declaration, i pretty much feel like the worst player in the world most of the time.


IMO:

Falco beats fox, Falco is best char. i think mogwai and I have the same thought process on this.
Standard Falco > Standard Fox. Falco is a moving **** machine. Taking into consideration all levels of play obviously.
 
DJRome

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i have 2 conflicting ideas about tiers and mus

on one hand, they should be based on high level play. but then it applies to < .01 % of players. so if u make it more practical, then it doesn't even matter bc those players will just show u who is better 99% of the time.
 
Dr Peepee

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I'd still say high level players can give us a very detailed perspective about what a matchup is like. Just because one player loses to another doesn't necessarily indicate what a matchup is like, but you can learn a ton about it from watching such matches. To take a set with pros and saying "this is what it is" can't always be the case(since, you're right, two players aren't usually evenly skilled at the highest level but they're all up there), but you can use what you see and build on it with your own inferences and theories. Since we don't have many top/high level players to learn different matchups from, everyone has to do this to some degree I believe.

LOL @ KK
 
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