PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[I.B]

i said most haha

fair enough.

has anyone here ever gotten a gimp below ~30% with Falco

because I haven't

lolfloaties

really my only problem with falco, can't gimp as well as fox or marth or sheik or falcon or anyone ever

:[

I gimped I.B. Lots today in falco v marth/ditto/fox/sheik.

Like if he misses a tech on a platform, or tech rolls to the edge (or tech in place close enough), auto shine -> d-air (then the momentum thing happens).

Or d-air -> platform drop d-air -> d-air.

shine -> f-smash at like 30 with WC DI.

d-air marth when he tries to sweetspot his up-b (SH over the d-air, or do it backwards and edge-cancel -> hog).

n-air -> d-air on floatier chars

Random (double) laser takes away jump -> moves

b-throw -> stuff (so many variables, and character dependant when it happens. Like they go low and you shine -> d-air).



- unknown522

 

[V3ctorMan]

Falco is fun....



really fun.....

I wanna make my falco better! =p

 

[I.B]

falco ditto friendlies is the ****.

- unknown522

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Against a Sheik, would you recommend staying back and camping a bit or going 100% aggressive start to finish?

Neither of those. Sheik has the tools to stop almost any kind of approach from Falco if she knows what Falco is going to do. As a result, going 100% aggressive can result in a downright suicide if you act recklessy. I also think Sheik can overcome Falco's camping pretty well or at least Falco will not benefit that much from simply camping. In general, Sheik can counter anything Falco does but Falco is slightly faster. This means Falco should not focus on single patterns/strategies but try to keep changing instead. If you manage to confuse the Sheik your approachs will start working again. You also wanna stay at middle distance from Sheik. Staying too close is risky while staying too far will make you unable to make an approach in case you had the opportunity.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

usmash oos.

o wait that's how to gimp falco.

except you lived...

**** pp.

 

[tarheeljks]

is there a falco video archive anywhere on the boards. would be cool to have one like the falcon boards have

 

[PK Webb]

yo ok im a fox main tryin out falco for fun and whenever i try to isai drop laser i get the isai drop but the laser never comes out=( am i just doing it to slow?

 

[tarheeljks]

yah just do it faster

 

[Little England]

Although I use buffering, I'm not sure if I understand it/am incorporating it in its entirety. Can someone explain a few examples of what to buffer/when? I'd appreciate it. (I do know about buffering oos things such as jumps and rolls, but thats almost the extent of it.) I feel like it's a decent sized whole in my technical game. lol

 

[FoxLisk]

the only things you can buffer are spot dodges, rolls, and jumps. and I guess shields? no one ever talks about that, though. but if you hold a shield button it goes up on the first(?) available frame. so you buffer rolls when you're scared, i guess. if i ever realize i've misspaced an aerial or missed an l-cancel or something, I buffer a roll away because my only hope is that my opponent doesn't react in time to punish me, so I wanna get away asap. also out of shield pressure.

and you can buffer jumps out of hitstun, which sucks. if you press any jump button while in hitstun, and are able to jump within [50?] frames, you will asap.


oh. i buffer rolls when i get jabbed. Assuming I didn't CC. again, hoping they dont react in time to the jab landing.

 

[JPOBS]

you can buffer rolls/spotdodges out of a ton of stuff

a big one isuggest getting good at is buffering out of marth's low percent F-throw->regrab.

 

[Roneblaster]

mr. pp and other falcos

will you guys play me at pound and help me get better at this MU?


P.S.
PP your a robot. youre TFG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57SgjVx_Z-0&feature=feedu

yeah im watching this. its dumb how good you are PP.

 

[unknown522]

^ Money match?

 

[Dr Peepee]

i like ur title pp

Thanks! =)

Falco is fun....



really fun.....

I wanna make my falco better! =p

You got this man!

falco ditto friendlies is the ****.

- unknown522

Heck yeah dude since I started figuring that junk out it's made my life easier. XD

Neither of those. Sheik has the tools to stop almost any kind of approach from Falco if she knows what Falco is going to do. As a result, going 100% aggressive can result in a downright suicide if you act recklessy. I also think Sheik can overcome Falco's camping pretty well or at least Falco will not benefit that much from simply camping. In general, Sheik can counter anything Falco does but Falco is slightly faster. This means Falco should not focus on single patterns/strategies but try to keep changing instead. If you manage to confuse the Sheik your approachs will start working again. You also wanna stay at middle distance from Sheik. Staying too close is risky while staying too far will make you unable to make an approach in case you had the opportunity.

Well I mean he was just asking more of what you wanted to do generally. Some people tend to fluctuate towards offense or defense in their play, and while that's not the best way to phrase the question/view the situation, it was cool of you to explain all of that haha.

usmash oos.

o wait that's how to gimp falco.

except you lived...

**** pp.

I cheat lol. <3

is there a falco video archive anywhere on the boards. would be cool to have one like the falcon boards have

There was one? I think it's inactive now. If people want one then someone should step up.

yah just do it faster

what he said.

mr. pp and other falcos

will you guys play me at pound and help me get better at this MU?


P.S.
PP your a robot. youre TFG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57SgjVx_Z-0&feature=feedu

yeah im watching this. its dumb how good you are PP.

I'd love to help! =)

Also those friendlies are funny hahaha the hype is too good.

 

[Roneblaster]

maybe unknown. we'll see how much money i've lost and how much more i plan on when the time comes.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Well I mean he was just asking more of what you wanted to do generally.

In that case I think the answer is to always be aggressive to a certain degree unless you're playing.. dunno.. Bowser? I tried to completely rely on camping in the past but didn't really work out without switching to attack mode at a certain point. The way I see it, camping is only effective in creating more openings in your opponent. If you keep retreating and never move forward the only outcome will be losing space to your opponent which isn't really the best thing for Falco considering he relies on space control. 100% camping will only work if your opponent is using a character that can't follow the evasion you will be using once you're out of space due to your withdraw (this is what Fox's circle camping on Hyrule temple is based on). Another exception is if you're using camping as a way to prevent your opponent from camping himself in which case you will stop as soon as your opponent changes strategy anyway.

On a more general overview both being completely aggressive and completely campy will result in becoming easily predictable but I tend to see camping as somewhat more predictable/easy to counter than approaching, because approaching is usually done through the use of more patterns compared to camping.

 

[tarheeljks]

There was one? I think it's inactive now. If people want one then someone should step up.

ah ok. i waste time searching for the same videos repeatedly, and guessed others do the same, so it seemed like a good idea. just wanted to check first in case there was one i didn't know about

 

[DJRome]

hi dr peepee. i always seem to get gimped by back throw from sheik and fox. how can i avoid this?

thanks!

btw, i love your videos.

 

[JPOBS]

hmm...foxs backthrow shouldnt be gimping you that much. he cant really cover that many options.

edit: on a slightly more constructive note, its pretty hard to give advice on avoiding gimps without some footage.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Best solution is just make better/less predictable/more random decisions on getting back to the stage. Also, make sure to DI the throw to awkward angles and don't come back to the stage the same way from the same DI or he will get a "read"

Oh yeah and shine stall can help some too

 

[Roneblaster]

dj plays sheik. he cant shine stall.

 

[Dr Peepee]

In that case I think the answer is to always be aggressive to a certain degree unless you're playing.. dunno.. Bowser? I tried to completely rely on camping in the past but didn't really work out without switching to attack mode at a certain point. The way I see it, camping is only effective in creating more openings in your opponent. If you keep retreating and never move forward the only outcome will be losing space to your opponent which isn't really the best thing for Falco considering he relies on space control. 100% camping will only work if your opponent is using a character that can't follow the evasion you will be using once you're out of space due to your withdraw (this is what Fox's circle camping on Hyrule temple is based on). Another exception is if you're using camping as a way to prevent your opponent from camping himself in which case you will stop as soon as your opponent changes strategy anyway.

On a more general overview both being completely aggressive and completely campy will result in becoming easily predictable but I tend to see camping as somewhat more predictable/easy to counter than approaching, because approaching is usually done through the use of more patterns compared to camping.

Eh, I think camping could work(at least for a while again until people figured out how to beat a new way to do it) because Falco's lasers give enough stun to slow approaches and Falco's defensive moves(Bair/Utilt specifically) provide things to respect while approaching. You even said yourself that this camping would "create more openings" so it just seems to make sense that you won't be losing your stage control for long if you get a great opportunity to attack and obviously regain stage control.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to camp until they got an opening and then held stage control until they lost control of the situation or got a kill. It would be an interesting way to play.

Camping could have lots of different patterns(or at least variations of several patterns) as well as approaching, and as long as they're mixed up well enough then they could totally be effective. It's not really about what you can do overall so much as what you do differently when it comes to options I feel.

hi dr peepee. i always seem to get gimped by back throw from sheik and fox. how can i avoid this?

thanks!

btw, i love your videos.

oh dj you really are scared of that MM aren't you? <3

dj plays sheik. he cant shine stall.

Yeah that guy sucks. Did you see me kill him with Marth's upsmash? LOL

nah <3 dj

kinda

 

[Roneblaster]

was it upsmash? i thought it was upthrow on the plat. either way, marths up moves dont kill before 150 lololol get graped dj.

i just watched ur combo vid all the way through for the first time.

damn. easily one of the top falco combo vids ever, the clicks were remarkably different than just silly falco pillars. but my favorite part had to be the last clip though. I lost so very hard at that.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Eh, I think camping could work(at least for a while again until people figured out how to beat a new way to do it) because Falco's lasers give enough stun to slow approaches and Falco's defensive moves(Bair/Utilt specifically) provide things to respect while approaching. You even said yourself that this camping would "create more openings" so it just seems to make sense that you won't be losing your stage control for long if you get a great opportunity to attack and obviously regain stage control.

What I meant to mostly point out is that some players in the past (Hiko, possibly Mathos to name a few) used to rely on camping a lot more than nowadays' Falcos. Hence my feeling that camping alone doesn't provide the same opportunities (wheter just in theory or because of practical consequences) as before.

Also, we're kind of saying the same thing. The "camping" I'm referring to in my earlier posts is when you shoot lasers without even using any other move (such as Bair/Utilt/other). When combined with moments in which you do other things (even just Bair/Utilt), camping is legit. I just find it silly when it's used to simply deal damage using the lasers themselves (yes, I tried this one too :°D)

I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to camp until they got an opening and then held stage control until they lost control of the situation or got a kill. It would be an interesting way to play.

That's curious because unless I'm misunderstanding it, you're pointing out the core of the strategy I used at RoS4 in 2007. I got 2nd place losing to Amsah in GF and that was my highest placing ever lol. Basically what I did was spamming lasers on a shield instead of approaching. If an opponent tried to escape by jumping I would intercept it (either in mid air or by interrupting his landing using lasers). If he just stood in his shield, I would simply wait for it to consume proceeding to shield stab it afterwards. It really did pay off, expecially considering how inferior my technical level used to be lol. I ended up ditching this strategy because Europe eventually found the way to get through lasers, today I really feel like shooting even one of them is a serious commitment.

 

[~Twitch~]

mr. pp and other falcos

will you guys play me at pound and help me get better at this MU?


P.S.
PP your a robot. youre TFG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57SgjVx_Z-0&feature=feedu

yeah im watching this. its dumb how good you are PP.

everyone needs to watch the featured video of that vid.

 

[Dark Hart]

DJ: ah, I kill myself

Theo: YOU DID NOT KILL YOURSELF, I'm so mad at you right now

 

[condemned_soul]

hey dr peepee do you play MAG?

 

[Deleted member]

hey kevin, I was thinking:

laser > shine is pretty gay

laser > grab is useful sometimes

so we should be trendfags and start doing laser > shinegrab. no escape lol.

 

[Divinokage]

Powershield that ****.

 

[JPOBS]

i already do laser shinegrab

dat 2012 metagame son

 

[Druggedfox]

2012 metagame is shielddropping

 

[JPOBS]

remember when sdi was like "omg he's sooo good holy crap"

and now when ppl don't do it its like "should have sdi'd scrub"

2009 where u at.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

lol laser shine grab? not difficult lol

shield dropping really is where it's at.

 

[tarheeljks]

oh man sveet. i lol'ed for real

 

[Dark Hart]

laser -> shinegrab?

seems pretty pointlessly pointless

gonna start adding it to mah game

 

[Pr0jecT]

I guess I'm 2012 status then, abuse the hell out of shield dropping with falco :D

It really does come in incredibly handy

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Laser->SC2 is that 2011 metagame

 

[Dr Peepee]

What I meant to mostly point out is that some players in the past (Hiko, possibly Mathos to name a few) used to rely on camping a lot more than nowadays' Falcos. Hence my feeling that camping alone doesn't provide the same opportunities (wheter just in theory or because of practical consequences) as before.

Also, we're kind of saying the same thing. The "camping" I'm referring to in my earlier posts is when you shoot lasers without even using any other move (such as Bair/Utilt/other). When combined with moments in which you do other things (even just Bair/Utilt), camping is legit. I just find it silly when it's used to simply deal damage using the lasers themselves (yes, I tried this one too :°D)



That's curious because unless I'm misunderstanding it, you're pointing out the core of the strategy I used at RoS4 in 2007. I got 2nd place losing to Amsah in GF and that was my highest placing ever lol. Basically what I did was spamming lasers on a shield instead of approaching. If an opponent tried to escape by jumping I would intercept it (either in mid air or by interrupting his landing using lasers). If he just stood in his shield, I would simply wait for it to consume proceeding to shield stab it afterwards. It really did pay off, expecially considering how inferior my technical level used to be lol. I ended up ditching this strategy because Europe eventually found the way to get through lasers, today I really feel like shooting even one of them is a serious commitment.

Well I just think everyone wants to be cool now and those that don't play as gay get respected more and trained with more probably. No one talented(due to smash community's smaller player pool) has been able to show the extent of camping in today's metagame I feel.

Chops will laser to deal damage in several matchups(to avoid getting CC'd or to combo floatier/heavier characters easier), but that wasn't what I was referring to. I'm talking about lasering to force approaches ON YOUR TERMS, which is what they used to say projectiles are all about in a way(forcing someone into a position on your terms). What I mean by that is someone has to come to you because your character or you as a player abuse your projectiles better but in a way that forces the opponent to only come to you/begin approaching at certain angles/timings. THAT's what camping should be about and what I haven't seen happen in forever.

I don't find that the strategy you employed at that tournament to really be camping so much as maybe like a weird shield pressure. It's not a bad idea(you're right in that it would certainly have to be modified these days with better understanding of how to deal with lasers), but it's definitely not camping.

hey dr peepee do you play MAG?

I dunno what that even is so I guess not haha.

hey kevin, I was thinking:

laser > shine is pretty gay

laser > grab is useful sometimes

so we should be trendfags and start doing laser > shinegrab. no escape lol.

Haha I've been doing that off and on for a few months now. It's pretty good.

2012 metagame is shielddropping

I really do need to master that. <.<

 

[Druggedfox]

Shield drop aerials/shine beat people trying to pressure you from below amazingly (marth uptilt)...
Shield drop when someone attacks you from above into a shine-->waveland is amazing...
Shield dropping randomly just to look cool is amazing...
Shield dropping isn't too hard...
Shield dropping...

2012 baby.