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Smash Obsessed
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
JPOBS
Smash Hero
naah mang.
Devil Ray
Smash Lord
Jayford
Smash Lord
What are good ways to go about getting out of tech chases? Specifically Marth/Sheik tech chases. I feel like if they have the spacing down they can cover like every option I do after I tech (that is, if they don't just grab me out of the tech already)
What do you do after you roll? It's hard for me to tell if I should try to laser, run away, shield, spot dodge, attack, retreating bair, etc. Is this just reading your opponent?
thanks
I will try to post videos soon so you guys can be more specific
What do you do after you roll? It's hard for me to tell if I should try to laser, run away, shield, spot dodge, attack, retreating bair, etc. Is this just reading your opponent?
thanks
I will try to post videos soon so you guys can be more specific
Jake13
Smash Lord
think about where you'd normally tech. then go the other way lol
was the puff match foreal?
whenever some ***** is just ledgecamping i like the shine > turnaround wavedash to the ledge
sometimes you grab sometimes you don't depending on your timing but its an easy punish once you get it get it
was the puff match foreal?
whenever some ***** is just ledgecamping i like the shine > turnaround wavedash to the ledge
sometimes you grab sometimes you don't depending on your timing but its an easy punish once you get it get it
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
this isn't really the same thing. think m2k specified planking when ahead, this puff planked when the match was tied, so falco had no incentive to approach. match obv plays out differently if puff gets a 2% lead and then starts planking
edit: also that puff could have planked in sudden death. . . would have been so lame when falco died from a bobomb
JPOBS
Smash Hero
marth techchase:
usually i find vs marth it doesn't matter which direction you tech, but what you do after the tech thats most important. Most marths won't bother to regrab/punish directly out of your tech animation (even though they can), and instead will do quick dash dances right in your face to bait spotdodges/rolls and will punish THAT. so vs that kinda of marth you can tech and throw out a dair or retreating laser and catch them being idle.
but some marths also look for the retreating laser and go for dash attack->death combo so you have to figure out what style of marth you're playing.
his dthrow ledge trap is pretty gay. iirc he "check" your tech in place/away/no tech at the ledge with dtilt and still regrab the tech inwards and rinse repeat. in which case you're only viable answer is to ledgecancel or DI offstage i think.
if he's being lazy and just regrabbing your tech in and watching/waiting for your tech in place (to fsmash it most likely) you just have to fool him. tech inwards a few times, and he'll start to think you're going to tech inpace, then just tech in again lol. or do the reverse. or edgecancel is pry good too.
vs sheik techchase:
basically the same stuff for marth except her techchase is even gayer cuz its even harder to get out if they are really good.
general tips:
teching to her back leaves only a short distance between her and you, so the option of her regrabbing this is relatively easy. but it leaves the possibly they get tripped up in their turn animation lawl.
tech-inplace shine is their biggest fear and mostly, they are looking for that option first and then reacting to a no tech/tech roll.
tech roll away to crouch cancel is a good bet for a few reasons. Firstly because it puts the most space between you and her and iirc they have to boost grab to get you. this leaves the potential that they mess up and dash attack which you can CC and punish. lesser sheiks will just dash attack this tech on habit anyway cuz its so far away, again free cc punish. but if they're really good and just do everything right, you're boned anyway.
theres also the option of no tech and try to sdi the jab. an often overlooked option but its good. liable to upsmashes tho.
mixing in different kinds of DI's on the throw itself with the different techs also helps to make it harder for them.
one thing in my experience to look out for in that when the sheik misses your tech chase, they will quickly try to overshoot a dash attack at you in the hopes you tried to shoot a laser. I hate when this happens cuz most falcos instinctively think "ok im out of the techchase, time to restablish laser control" and they get boned for it. so just be careful if thats the kind of sheik you're up against.
im probably missing some things. theres too much to say about techchases lol
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
@Kira
Marth and sheik's tech chasing is unbeatable if they have perfect reaction, but a large part of most people's tech chasing is based on their subconscious predictions. That said, chances are whoever is tech chasing you has some sort of idea of where you're teching and is combining that with his reaction.
The best way to escape is to set up some sort of edgecancel so that you slide off onto a ledge. Against marth particularly, not teching is often a good way to get out of it. Against sheik you want to not tech but land close enough to them that they cannot dash attack you easily, forcing a jab reset that you can SDI up to escape. Teching in place is also harder to react to, so if you condition them to expect a tech in place and then randomly don't they'll probably attempt to predict instead of react without meaning to; alternatively you can do the opposite and not tech in place for a period of time than arbitrarily choose to tech in place.
Remember that if you tech and they have good enough reaction, they have a *guaranteed* regrab/hit on you. My thoughts were pretty scattered since I'm in class not really paying attention to what I'm typing... if you want any clarification/elaboration tell me =P
Edit: JPOBS said stuff idk how much overlaps, sorry
And I'll probably mention stuff to do after teching if they were too slow to grab/hit you later
Marth and sheik's tech chasing is unbeatable if they have perfect reaction, but a large part of most people's tech chasing is based on their subconscious predictions. That said, chances are whoever is tech chasing you has some sort of idea of where you're teching and is combining that with his reaction.
The best way to escape is to set up some sort of edgecancel so that you slide off onto a ledge. Against marth particularly, not teching is often a good way to get out of it. Against sheik you want to not tech but land close enough to them that they cannot dash attack you easily, forcing a jab reset that you can SDI up to escape. Teching in place is also harder to react to, so if you condition them to expect a tech in place and then randomly don't they'll probably attempt to predict instead of react without meaning to; alternatively you can do the opposite and not tech in place for a period of time than arbitrarily choose to tech in place.
Remember that if you tech and they have good enough reaction, they have a *guaranteed* regrab/hit on you. My thoughts were pretty scattered since I'm in class not really paying attention to what I'm typing... if you want any clarification/elaboration tell me =P
Edit: JPOBS said stuff idk how much overlaps, sorry
And I'll probably mention stuff to do after teching if they were too slow to grab/hit you later
It's already been said that Tag was goofing off that match.
And lol I guess Kira's question was answered thoroughly enough by the time I got here.
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
my friend plays marth and i got really frustrated at his techchasing the other day, so I asked him what to do against it, and he gave me an interesting recommendation.
If you tech in place and notice that they are dash dancing close to you, they're waiting for you to spot dodge and then they're going to grab you. so when they do this, just fsmash them. it becomes extremely difficult for them to react to. afterwards, they'll be a little more cautious and do their dash dance far enough away to deal with your fsmash, and then you have much more time to tech in place and run away or get to a platform or something.
but, of course, fi they're grabbing you out of your tech and not out of the option you choose next, you're boned.
oh and against marths, if you miss a tech I would recommend rolling one way out of it. it's slower, but in my experience marths that see missed techs expect getup attacks and respond to them accurately. might not be universal, though, so take that with a grain of salt.
If you tech in place and notice that they are dash dancing close to you, they're waiting for you to spot dodge and then they're going to grab you. so when they do this, just fsmash them. it becomes extremely difficult for them to react to. afterwards, they'll be a little more cautious and do their dash dance far enough away to deal with your fsmash, and then you have much more time to tech in place and run away or get to a platform or something.
but, of course, fi they're grabbing you out of your tech and not out of the option you choose next, you're boned.
oh and against marths, if you miss a tech I would recommend rolling one way out of it. it's slower, but in my experience marths that see missed techs expect getup attacks and respond to them accurately. might not be universal, though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Fortress | Sveet
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^ some people are good at reacting at the tech in place. Idk if any other marth does it all on reaction, but its really not much different than sheik's. If the tech chaser is looking for grabs, just miss your tech and try something from there.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
miss tech and do a random input
i know random is technically impossible but throwing them off is the only real way out of a tech chase
well, throwing them off or edgecanceling... edgecanceling is mad gay lolol
m2k's old d-throw turn around d-tilt trap always seemed silly to me because you can edgecancel to the edge pretty easily but i'm not sure if the d-tilt is supposed to cover that or not. maybe it is and IB is too slow. m2k explain plz.
i know random is technically impossible but throwing them off is the only real way out of a tech chase
well, throwing them off or edgecanceling... edgecanceling is mad gay lolol
m2k's old d-throw turn around d-tilt trap always seemed silly to me because you can edgecancel to the edge pretty easily but i'm not sure if the d-tilt is supposed to cover that or not. maybe it is and IB is too slow. m2k explain plz.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Couldn't you do it in a position that they were too far to edgecancel (especially at low %s) but you had time to cover a tech towards the ledge? Idk where's m2k
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Taj is pretty good at reacting to techs in place.
ViciousEnd
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2010
- Messages
- 297
I mean yea, so are a lot of players.
unknown522
Some guy
have you not played imadh before?
JPOBS
Smash Hero
i said most haha
Kanelol
Smash Lord
has anyone here ever gotten a gimp below ~30% with Falco
because I haven't
lolfloaties
really my only problem with falco, can't gimp as well as fox or marth or sheik or falcon or anyone ever
:[
because I haven't
lolfloaties
really my only problem with falco, can't gimp as well as fox or marth or sheik or falcon or anyone ever
:[
Fortress | Sveet
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yea, I gimp fast fallers below 30 all the time. bthrow -> ftilt -> dair -> herpdederp -> taunt.
"And like that - *poof* - he was gone."
I always thought bthrow fsmash was the Dope, but then again I thought pullback dair to (bait grab) to fsmash for shield pressure was the Mango, and I thought waveland away from shield (bait grab) fsmash was the Atlus (underrated Socal smasher, made a lot of montages). But I guess everything falco related was invented by PC Chris.
I always thought bthrow fsmash was the Dope, but then again I thought pullback dair to (bait grab) to fsmash for shield pressure was the Mango, and I thought waveland away from shield (bait grab) fsmash was the Atlus (underrated Socal smasher, made a lot of montages). But I guess everything falco related was invented by PC Chris.
lol, the quote's in my location, urdoin'itwrong!
Jake13
Smash Lord
Bthrow to fsmash is the rob$
everyone knows atlus, he made this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdMA9wSDFUc
and for that we are forever grateful.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
oh yeah LOL, I just remember a stretch of tourneys where he unerringly got top 3 over a period of like 3 months
well.. i would edit my last post but it is too late
Yeah it doesn't really happen all that often just because it's hard to get grabs by the edge, but then it's also hard to react to everything and cover it all since Falco's slow and can't really go offstage too far.
The only way I've ever gimped anything was throwing a spacie offstage(Fthrow or Bthrow) and then Ftilting/Fsmashing it and then Dair'ing the recovery.
I think you have to Dair Fox's recovery once more to seal the deal, but yeah that'll pretty much give you the kill.
forward
Smash Champion
Fixed .
tw1n
Smash Champion
Against a Sheik, would you recommend staying back and camping a bit or going 100% aggressive start to finish?
my rule of thumb vs. Sheik is to be aggressive when she's grounded and passive when she's platform camping. trying to approach a sheik who's mobile on platforms is really stupid because she stuffs all your approaches with fall-through fair.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
What's the safest way to pressure Falcon when I know he's going to full jump over my lasers?
shoot higher? I mean, I don't start even getting close to Falcon until I've grounded him with lasers and can approach through SHLs, but you can't do that till you shoot him down and catch him in shield or on the ground with a laser.
Either stuff his jumps before he does em with higher lasers or catch him when he lands, or get under him and uptilt/Bair. That pressure will keep Falcon guessing on how he should fall and then you can play with your spacing accordingly.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
PP... what matchup would you *not* suggest camping in >___________> (in reference to tw1n's question)
Maybe the ditto/less campy Fox lol.
It's hard to answer when campy and aggressive aren't usually all of the things you do even if your style largely centers around one of those things.
It's hard to answer when campy and aggressive aren't usually all of the things you do even if your style largely centers around one of those things.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i like ur title pp