Pound Prizes

[.WC.]

There is seriously something wrong with all of you people.

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

just lol laijin

here is what selfish means:
"concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others"

what plank did was selfish, not us expecting payouts.

if he pays everyone their prizes, 1 person is in debt. instead, 22 people are in debt.

how is that not selfish on plank's part again?

again, u seem to be confusing urself. u say ur not defending his actions but in fact u are. u say that he has the right to refuse to payout anything in this situation. but you completely ignore the fact that at EVERY SINGLE TOURNAMENT, the venue fee and the entry fees are separate. in fact, that is why they are distinctly paid and listed

just because everyone else would have done it doesn't mean it's right. so you say if ur in debt u would steal? sorry, but that's in fact not true. don't speak for everyone else

also, eggm, ur a ******. im glad $mike gonna make u feel it. who cares if it is possible to have that "good time" that plank provided?

if i walk into a restaurant, ask for food, pay for food, and they turn around and say, "sorry, resources low. no food. no refund. go away, we're closing" i would say, "hey, this is plank's 5 pound of chicken bucket of horse**** restaurant right here"

we all understand risk. if u chose to take it, that is ur decision. but don't steal from others if it doesn't work out

all you mother****ers who think it's okay since we decided to attend deserve to die. seriously. society doesn't want ******* like you. if i decide to go outside and someone shoots me, is it my fault? if i go to a restaurant and they undercook my food, is it my fault? holy **** u smashers are ********. i really want to punch u through this screen right now

You didn't pay for food though... you paid for entrance.

It's not like there's a contract for the winners, and if plank hadn't spent the money there would be no tournament.

 

[BigWenz]

Said payouts to top 16 min.
Not how much or where the money was coming from, or even what the term 'payout' implied.
There is no case.

but he paid them nothing, so by default their is A case.

 

[Theftz22]

"I will pay out according to attendance."

There goes your case.

 

[Xyro77]

The longer i live the more corrupt this world is getting. People literally DEFEND people like plank. Geezus my dad was right(i HATE to say that). The world only gets worse, never better.

 

[Alex Strife]

phew. Well what should I say.


Above all I want to thank plank for pound 5. It was fun running the melee section ( i love my brawl players also ) and being on the mic at the end was pretty awesome.With that being said I wanted to explain something about being a TO. Like someone said being a TO is something we choose to be. It is basically a responsibility that we take upon ourselves to do something to help the community. When Plank decided during Pound 2 to start becoming a tournament host he decided then that he had to do something beyond what we do as players and become something more. With each Pound he built upon it and wanted to strive for more. I met him at Pound 3 and talked to him and became friends. From there I looked up to him and learned a lot of dos and don'ts as a TO. Even for Apex I asked him to be my Melee TO for the event.

So we now come to this. Now obviously those who know him in-depth will stick up for him. Those being the ones defending him at this point and its vice-versa for those who are against him. Me? I just want everyone happy and sadly thats a task I cannot do for everyone. I ask that people just think about it and understand his position.

To Anti/Ally/others : If you are going to sue then that is your choice. I have already stated that if you plan on doing something serious then do not post about it and just do it. Posting on a thread/forum will never resolve issues its just being big and tough. I know you guys. You all have been ****ed more times than many in a lifetime and I can understand where you are coming from. Many do not know but I lost millions from an idea that was stolen from me by people that were former employees of Samsung who created a league based on an idea I had ( reference the former league known as CGS ). I feel all the anger and frustration that you have at times. No matter what it will never change my opinion of you all and I will always root you guys on in tournaments.

To those making this a Melee vs Brawl debate : Well what can I say? Most Melee players nowadays have not had something like this happen in a very long time. Brawl players have been screwed often so give them a break. Do I condone how some of them are talking? No , but , they have a right to be again regardless of what happens. We all try to act holier than thou at times but in reality we all have our limits in some way , shape , or form. Anti is usually a calm mature guy ( a little wild with the ladies but hey he is a teen let him enjoy ) so him being upset means he really felt "robbed". I know though he wishes ill will he does not really mean it its just his anger and people saying how wrong he is probably would upset him more.

To Plank : Jon you know I will do anything for you. Do I think you could of planned better? Yes I do but this is not about that. Its about the fact that the event did not go as planned. You said you made a mistake and thats a good thing. I remember when you needed help and I helped you and my offer still stands to help you with the payments. Thats just something I am willing to do and help out the community. You made a mistake and it happens.



Guys. Lets work towards a peaceful solution. We are a community that has so much great potential. Our streams have gotten better, our players are travelling a lot more, and we have people dedicated to making your experiences great ( Genesis , Apex, Whobo, Zenith, Roms, Etc. ). Lets use this as a way of pushing towards a new light and a new era. I will never believe our community is dying. I simply will not let it. Even if I have to continue to pay for top players out of my own pocket this community will live on. Mistakes were made...lets work at it together and stop playing the blame game and start building towards a future that we can call great.


Alex.

 

[Shenanigans]

what's funny is your argument. it's a competition for money, who exactly should the people who didn't make it out of pools get money back?

good argument, kid.

Ahaha, i missed this little spat at me.

It's Cute.

Ah, Oh well. What's done is done.

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

Alex strife should literally just do the same exact thing for Apex 2012.

I'm not even being sarcastic, he'll make a great buck on the side. I mean, it is unrealistic for him to pay everyone back 9 grand in two weeks, so..

Plank lost money... this is the worse.

 

[rhan]

Pound 5 was the best smashfest I been to.

 

[luke_atyeo]

as you said alex, being a TO means volentaraly taking on a responsability.
that responsability means you have to accept the consequences of your actions.

 

[Mic_128]

as you said alex, being a TO means volentaraly taking on a responsability.
that responsability means you have to accept the consequences of your actions.

Which he has done. I haven't seen anything anywhere that he's posted denying anything.

 

[luke_atyeo]

denying and making excuses to spend money that isnt his is not the same thing miccles diccles

 

[Mic_128]

What excuses? You mean the massive hotel bills that had to be paid in front for the event to even happen?

 

[Tesh]

Actually now that people bring it up, it does seem like he hinted in subtle and ambiguous ways that he wouldn't commit to paying anything.

I guess it was just well played on his part. I wouldn't personally condone permanently harming the guy financially or physically but I think he does deserve to get kicked in the nuts repeatedly until he can't have children. Regardless of how he might weasel his way out it in court, it was clearly immoral to avoid paying people and then post that he doesn't HAVE to pay people.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

anyone defending plank's actions can go ahead and hug a fluffy bunny
you guys are insane

lmfao

 

[CT Chia]

I don't understand the screenshots from his bank account. It's a bunch of smaller charges (that all look like room charges likely, aka all the extra rooms Plank said he got, and then a single lump of $3,600 - so I'm confused. I would expect the venue to cost around the $10-$15k range, and for the base cost of the room, I would think they would charge the entire bill at once. Separate rooms are paid in separate things, but the base of the room would be the largest cost, which we're seeing $3,600.

idk, whatever, and since this bugs me so much, I'm gonna do the math. I dunno if anyone else did in the thread yet since I haven't read all the pages, but Plank claims these are all of the charges to his card from the hotel soo...
$5,027.52 on page 1
$4,177.66 on page 2
$5,389.04 on page 3
+ the $418 he mentioned in the OP

Total: $15,077.56

Prizes are estimated to be $9,716

Now lets estimate approximately how much Plank received in venue fees...

The average venue fee was say... $27.50... TO BE SAFE. The venue fee was $27.50 in the month of december. The largest amount of people signed up in January and February, but this somewhat offsets the earlier months starting at October. Honestly the avg venue is likely higher.

Next we can just add the entrants between the singles events of the two games. There was some people that joined both events such as Inui and Vex, but this is offset by people who might have just entered singles, or the generous list of spectators, such as the Project M crowd and such who are listed as paying spectators in the Pound 5 OP.

Brawl had 151 entrants and Melee had 243 entrants, totaling 394 players. At $27.50 each that's $10,835. Round it up to $11,000 because of spectators, extra fee from door signups, which should shoot it over 11k but then subtracting some discounts and such. For people wondering if spectators are that many, there's 40 spectators in the Pound 5 OP (so not including even more from at the door) and at $20 each that's a cool $800.

Ok so $11,000 in venue fee and $9,716 in entry fees
Plank paid $15,077.56 for the tournament

Now Plank claims that there's no distinction between venue and entry fees which is an outright lie, or it would be a flat rate to enter each event and it wouldn't say X amount to venue and X amount to entry, however whatever whatever...

Take the $15,077.56, subtract 11k, and you've got $4,077.56. Even if Plank paid that off with the entry fees, he should still have $5,638.44...
So uhh... Plank showed us straight up, those were the charges he got from the hotel. Additionally there was another thing or two on there like a music store which I'm assuming is the mic he said he bought for the event. But yea, over half of the entry fees should still be somewhere, and I'm sure the winners would enjoy getting at least half of their money back, even if it isn't all of it right now.

 

[GimR]

plank messed up due to unseen circumstances that he probably should've been ready for. The people who are upset deserve to be upset but that doesn't mean that some of the mean things they are saying are alright. Cussing out a player that doesn't agree with you or saying degrading things about plank isn't going to get that money into those players' hands. At the same time, all of the Plank supporters need to get rid of your personal bias because he's your friend and stop acting like he didn't mess up.

I feel bad for him because of all of the hundreds of hours he put into all of these tournaments for the community and now all he's going to be remembered for is the one thing he did wrong

But I feel especially bad for the players because they put their heart and soul into this tournament with the understanding that if they won that they'd get the prize money they deserve.

That's all I have to say for now

 

[luke_atyeo]

What excuses? You mean the massive hotel bills that had to be paid in front for the event to even happen?

after being schooled by me so many times in the past, are you really going to do this again mic?

this is neither the time nor the place for me to destroy you once more, this is the time and the place for everyone to yell at each other untill an agreement is reached

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

Posted by tant and not by plank. Quick everyone sue tant, he put a number next to ally's name.




Question because I was trying to look it up myself
Are you basing grounds (if he hadn't ended up in debt) on what the laws are regarding gambling? Or are there laws surrounding games of skill? I found some information regarding gambling payouts and such, verbal contracts & whatnot, but I couldn't find any regarding games of skill.

The way it looks to me is that something like this is/has to be handled inside of the community involved.


v it really is a gem isn't it.

There is a common law precedent within smash, but the fact of the matter is this event was not in planks interest. He would have been financially better off had he not run the event. So it would be really hard to claim that using the winners funds isn't property of the hotel, since the hotel provided the event and we all were allowed on the premises. The winner would not even be able to compete had the hotel not allowed them.

Truthfully since the contract was with the hotel and the event was held in it, the hotel has first right to its contractually obligated finances. It would be hard to argue that common law within the community takes precedent over that contract.

Plus there was no actual guarantee of how much would be paid out.

In protection of the plaintiff, I would argue that the precedent was that I entered thinking if I placed I would have won the percentage of the fee that was deemed "entry fee" and only my money dubbed "venue fee" was served to the venue, but the fact is a service was provided for me and my revenue was not guaranteed. But mainly I received a service from the hotel.

Its not as though plank advertised "be here on this day give me 20 and I'll give you 500." The winning money was not guaranteed to me, nor was the performance at the event. Even though the winnings were expected. Again, since there was no actual amount, or guarantee that "entrance fee" was being used as a winners pot, and that was an expectation that generally true, it isn't exactly false advertising.

And even if he lost the case he'd have to file bankruptcy anyway, so there's no actual way to get money.

By the way, I edited what I said about ADHD and Djrome, but I feel like putting it back in.

Originally I said:

adhd and djrome... you guys are idiots. I mean it, you're really dumb. i don't know you personally, but your kids... will not get jobs.
Because my kids will fire them.

Get it? Because my kids will be smarter than them?

infact I might be so rich i'll just buy where they work and fire them. because I can.

and they deserve it.

Your diddy is pretty cool though. you can't sue someone if they lost money, on an event. I would just file bankruptcy.

What plank did was unfortunate... but he's more screwed than anyone.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

I don't understand the screenshots from his bank account. It's a bunch of smaller charges (that all look like room charges likely, aka all the extra rooms Plank said he got, and then a single lump of $3,600 - so I'm confused. I would expect the venue to cost around the $10-$15k range, and for the base cost of the room, I would think they would charge the entire bill at once. Separate rooms are paid in separate things, but the base of the room would be the largest cost, which we're seeing $3,600.

idk, whatever, and since this bugs me so much, I'm gonna do the math. I dunno if anyone else did in the thread yet since I haven't read all the pages, but Plank claims these are all of the charges to his card from the hotel soo...
$5,027.52 on page 1
$4,177.66 on page 2
$5,389.04 on page 3
+ the $418 he mentioned in the OP

Total: $15,077.56

Prizes are estimated to be $9,716

Now lets estimate approximately how much Plank received in venue fees...

The average venue fee was say... $27.50... TO BE SAFE. The venue fee was $27.50 in the month of december. The largest amount of people signed up in January and February, but this somewhat offsets the earlier months starting at October. Honestly the avg venue is likely higher.

Next we can just add the entrants between the singles events of the two games. There was some people that joined both events such as Inui and Vex, but this is offset by people who might have just entered singles, or the generous list of spectators, such as the Project M crowd and such who are listed as paying spectators in the Pound 5 OP.

Brawl had 151 entrants and Melee had 243 entrants, totaling 394 players. At $27.50 each that's $10,835. Round it up to $11,000 because of spectators, extra fee from door signups, which should shoot it over 11k but then subtracting some discounts and such. For people wondering if spectators are that many, there's 40 spectators in the Pound 5 OP (so not including even more from at the door) and at $20 each that's a cool $800.

Ok so $11,000 in venue fee and $9,716 in entry fees
Plank paid $15,077.56 for the tournament

Now Plank claims that there's no distinction between venue and entry fees which is an outright lie, or it would be a flat rate to enter each event and it wouldn't say X amount to venue and X amount to entry, however whatever whatever...

Take the $15,077.56, subtract 11k, and you've got $4,077.56. Even if Plank paid that off with the entry fees, he should still have $5,638.44...
So uhh... Plank showed us straight up, those were the charges he got from the hotel. Additionally there was another thing or two on there like a music store which I'm assuming is the mic he said he bought for the event. But yea, over half of the entry fees should still be somewhere, and I'm sure the winners would enjoy getting at least half of their money back, even if it isn't all of it right now.

Does this factor in the people who played both games? I'm sure there were some of them, but not enough to equal 4,000 worth anyway...

 

[DJRome]

lol alright voodoo. im already in a position to refute that but sure. continue ur dreams sir

 

[Rubyiris]

anyone defending plank's actions can go ahead and S my D

you guys are insane

lmfao

I'm defending Plank and I'll suck your ****. Where's your witty retort now?

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

lol alright voodoo. im already in a position to refute that but sure. continue ur dreams sir

Go ahead.

You seem really smart.

 

[Yung Mei]

I'm defending Plank and I'll suck your ****. Where's your witty retort now?

i ****ing love you

 

[Kuraudo]

after being schooled by me so many times in the past, are you really going to do this again mic?

this is neither the time nor the place for me to destroy you once more, this is the time and the place for everyone to yell at each other untill an agreement is reached

....

idk about the rest of you guys, but who imagined Mic and Luke being pulled into some kinda anime or some **** where they're rivals, and Luke's the superior one who will "destroy" said rival if they cross paths again?

lol at this srs intimidating words of epic.

 

[rhan]

Anyone in their right mind would see that Plank screwed up. I just feel bad because pretty much everyone who was involved in this tourney got jipped. Even the people that didn't place high.

I feel for Plank. But I feel for people like Armada, Amsah, Remen, etc. that traveled to another country for no reason. Even the players in PR like HDL. It's like all of it was for nothing.

But I do not regret my decision on going. I got to hang out with homies that I only get to see at these kinds of events. I just wish that it didn't cost everyone a lot of money. Let's all be straight up. DC ain't cheap.. I spent at least 200 extra just on myself for food n other crap. The hotel for me was about 600 (2 rooms) luckily the people I was housing paid for their share (<3 you guys). But yeah it all feels like it was for nothing. But oh well.

 

[CT Chia]

Does this factor in the people who played both games? I'm sure there were some of them, but not enough to equal 4,000 worth anyway...

Yea, it's not enough to factor both games, but as said, the amount of venue fee saved by entering both games + the amount of venue fees not collected from some helpers or giveaway passes would roughly equal the amount of money gained from spectators (over $800) plus the amount of venue fee gained from people who only entered doubles

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

I'm defending Plank and I'll suck your ****. Where's your witty retort now?

right here in my pants. come get some.

 

[DJRome]

Go ahead.

You seem really smart.

dude, im not here to compare intellect. the same thing happens on facebook. u come at me with your "credentials" of law school or whatever, but im not impressed. from my schooling experience, that's just something you do. are you seriously using the context of a smash community to toot ur own horn?

we all get it u have some education. well gee fella, we all do too. now why don't u use that head of yours to stop protecting plank and get the right people their just due

 

[Strong Badam]

You didn't refute anything in that post. Congratulations.

 

[Laijin]

You didn't refute anything in that post. Congratulations.

I lol'ed.

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

dude, im not here to compare intellect. the same thing happens on facebook. u come at me with your "credentials" of law school or whatever, but im not impressed. from my schooling experience, that's just something you do. are you seriously using the context of a smash community to toot ur own horn?

we all get it u have some education. well gee fella, we all do too. now why don't u use that head of yours to stop protecting plank and get the right people their just due

I'm not happy with what plank did, but you there's very little precedent to sue. I mean, you can always get the right judge, but these events could also be considered gambling.

I don't like what plank did. The entire time, i've been saying there's not a great ground to sue on.

Besides "***** i'm salty."

I just feel like you're being pretty ignorant about the actual claims and rights.

If i were in planks shoes, and you won money, and you sued me. I'd actually counter sue you so you'd cover my attorney fees. And I'd feel pretty good about my winning chances.

But again, you can always get the right judge.

 

[DJRome]

should i? that kind of pretentious thinking of "im smarter so ill rule ur life and ur kids life" is very juvenile and something i did when i was in middle school and possibly the largest *** in existence

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

You didn't refute anything in that post. Congratulations.

it's fairly obvious by now on who thinks what.

who cares

it's smash drama baby

******s are about to be in court LOL

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

should i? that kind of pretentious thinking of "im smarter so ill rule ur life and ur kids life" is very juvenile and something i did when i was in middle school and possibly the largest *** in existence

yeah... but it weerrs pretty funny.

 

[Strong Badam]

should i? that kind of pretentious thinking of "im smarter so ill rule ur life and ur kids life" is very juvenile and something i did when i was in middle school and possibly the largest *** in existence

You still haven't made a point that matters. I don't care about your credentials, be they existent or not. You haven't made a single point this whole page.

 

[SheerMadness]

I'm not sure I understand why plank would have signed some sort of contract where he was liable for any rooms that were booked by other people. That's bound to end disasterously, as it did.

Anyone talking about suing is dumb, IMO. It's not worth it. Nor would it get anyone anywhere.

99% of the people who went to this tourney knew they weren't going to make any money from it.

 

[DJRome]

okay, so check the previous pages. i was simply responding to his comment about: oh, im a umd graduate. im way smarter than u and that makes my points automatically more valid

i think my points are quite valid

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

okay, so check the previous pages. i was simply responding to his comment about: oh, im a umd graduate. im way smarter than u and that makes my points automatically more valid

i think my points are quite valid

Which is sort of... your problem.

your points aren't really... that valid.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

my unbiased opinion.

this only happened because there wasnt enough rooms booked, right? so hop off his **** its your fault for not coming to pound 5.it was one of the best tournaments i went to.you were able to wake up and take an elevator to the venue.if you just wanted to chill, you can leave your controller in the room.it had an amazing atmosphere.not to mention GFs.

but i do think plank should be working hard on paying the winners.he still has that obligation. doesnt matter if its late, its his job.