Pound Prizes

[Biglard]

I don't really have an opinion about all of this (even if I had I wouldn't post it here anyway because it would be pointless), but I really hope it won't discourage people, concerning large scale tournament organization and/or attendance.

All I can add is that I really wish it will go fine for the Pound V winners and for Plank.

 

[Pi]

Originally Posted by Aniolas
I feel so bad for my brother. His flight ticket was paid with the good player fund (feel sorry for you guys who donated aswell), but the whole trip cost much more than just the flight. He thought he would get some money from this after he placed 1st in teams and 2nd in singles, so he borrowed money from a friend to buy flight tickets to Genesis 2. Now he has no money and he owes other people a lot of money.

 

[Pierce7d]

At this point, I'm just utterly shocked that there are several people in this community who think it's okay not to pay out tournaments, just because there is no contract.

Let's isolate the variable first. Forget about Plank for a moment. If I run a tournament, imply that there is likely to be the standard prize of pot percentage, then decided that I didn't want to put any of the entry fee in the pot, so the pot was composed of $0, and I said winners don't get paid, I can just do that and not expect people to just complain? When this upcoming Saturday comes, there are going to be many local tourneys. It's okay for each one of those tournament organizers not to pay out, just because there's no contract?

To all of those who wish to defend Plank, I'm willing to buy an admittance that taking the money was wrong to us, but for him an obvious choice. If I was in his situation, I probably would've stolen the money too, instead of go into debt myself. Now, I wouldn't put myself in that situation, but that's neither here or there. I'm willing to hear that many Smashers are at fault because they stole services from the hotel by staying in crowded rooms, and this indirectly screwed over Plank.

However, it DISGUSTS me to hear that anyone even thinks it's okay not to pay out the winners. Clearly, this is the perspective of someone who has not placed in the money of a tournament before.

Lajin, I heard you placed in the Melee amateur tourney. What if the TO in charge of that decided to pocket the money, since payouts weren't promised for the amateur bracket. I mean, to 99% of users on Smashboards, it's implied the $10 buy in is going to the pot. However, your friend 3 would tell you that you didn't sign any contracts, and payout wasn't in the OP, so tough luck, you were just one of many that lined the TOs pockets, buy paying to participate in a fruitless tourney.

Is this honestly considered okay by you people? I'm still here not even so much out of anger with Plank. I'm actually UNWILLING to believe than in people's heart of hearts they honestly believe some of the blasphemy they are spewing.

 

[AXE 09]

Holy crap......

All I have to say is.... This really really sux

I feel horrible for PP and Armada

I feel really bad for M2k

I feel horrible for everyone else who was supposed to earn money

And I feel the worst for Plank.

Man, all of this just turned out really bad . I don't know what to say. I'm just really sad right now.

I really enjoyed my time at Pound 5 though. Everything about the actual tournament was so amazing. It just sux that this had to happen

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

At this point, I'm just utterly shocked that there are several people in this community who think it's okay not to pay out tournaments, just because there is no contract.

Yeah i totally agree.

I cant see why people are trying to defend him with this. I know people feel bad for him, but in the end it comes down to one thing: its his mistake. He was fully aware of the risk he was taking and decided to go on with things without alerting the community about the potential loss of money. Im sure that alot of people would not have attended if they knew there was not gonna be a pot.

 

[CY]

How about we get some proof of the amount of debt from plank? let's see the venue statement and whatever else there is. I'm not accusing plank of anything but if we had this information we could dismiss any rumor that plank stole the money. This is also fair to the winners considering if I was in their position I would want to know every bit of information possible. Chibo's math might be off but hell it could still be on to something.

plank has been pretty quiet about this whole thing which is pretty disrespectful imo. you just screwed over a bunch of people so in his position he should be justifying and prooving his actions.

 

[rhan]

It's morally wrong to pocket the money.

But from a legal standpoint there is nothing we can do about it.

 

[Octave]

I, for one, agree with the statement that in circumstance Plank made the right choice BUT he still needs to pay the winners, as you said, "the standard prize of pot percentage" i.e they money they earned from placing in the top 16/top whatever for brawl.

What some people are arguing is over the legal aspect of the situation, saying that there is a very small chance of any of those who did not get paid to actually get anywhere in court, not saying that he was right to not pay those people.

Looking at it purely legally, he made the right decision.

Edit: However, don't forget Chibo's math back on page 5. It shows more than 5k missing from the venue/entry money.

 

[AXE 09]

Well of course Plank has been quiet. He can't respond to like 1000 people all posting at once. And I'm pretty sure he's stressed as heck. Who wouldn't be in his situation? I think he'll post more eventually, but we can't expect him to post right away. He must be emotionally destroyed right now.

 

[S0FT]

This is why I think we need to stop focusing on how to fix this, that is between plank and the people that placed (I dont see them saying anything). Instead, we need to focus on preventive measures for all future tournaments. What is happening now apparently could have happened at any of the other Pounds. We need to make sure it is not happening at any other major tournaments.

 

[AllyKnight]

I bet Plank gave a couple of hundred to Laijin and 3 to defend his ***.

 

[idea]

Holy crap......

All I have to say is.... This really really sux

I feel horrible for PP and Armada

I feel really bad for M2k

I feel horrible for everyone else who was supposed to earn money

And I feel the worst for Plank.

Man, all of this just turned out really bad . I don't know what to say. I'm just really sad right now.

I really enjoyed my time at Pound 5 though. Everything about the actual tournament was so amazing. It just sux that this had to happen

*hug*

so many sad faces in one post!

 

[AXE 09]

*hug*

so many sad faces in one post!

I'm pretty sure that's the most amount of sad faces I've ever had in one post ever since I joined SWF This is the worst thing I've ever seen on the boards.

To make matters worse... This would've been the most money I have ever made at any tournament

 

[Mic_128]

At this point, I'm just utterly shocked that there are several people in this community who think it's okay not to pay out tournaments

I don't think anyone's been saying that it's okay, just that

From a legal standpoint there is nothing we can do about it.

 

[CY]

Well of course Plank has been quiet. He can't respond to like 1000 people all posting at once. And I'm pretty sure he's stressed as heck. Who wouldn't be in his situation? I think he'll post more eventually, but we can't expect him to post right away. He must be emotionally destroyed right now.

edit: nvm.

 

[GawdImFoxy]

This is the worst thread I have ever seen. I can't believe people actually think he stole the money.

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

I bet Plank gave a couple of hundred to Laijin and 3 to defend his ***.

I want to make it perfectly clear that while I do understand your frustrations my advice has been legal and there is no right solution to this.

Basically what we're saying is "I think plank deserves to be financially devastated as opposed to 10 others losing some money."

I for one would take plank helping out Armada and Ally as good enough. They traveled the farthest.

After that Probably Axe and Hbox.

I'm not sure who else on the brawl side had traveling expenses.

But again, we're all wishing financial ruin on plank.

I guess it's different when you're young, but as a grown man with bills, what you guys are demanding is kind of screwed up.

But plank can do something.

there's always a middle.

 

[Renth]

I bet Plank gave a couple of hundred to Laijin and 3 to defend his ***.

Nah. we spilt the pot down the middle Laijin and 3 were just there when we had our tournament money party. Oh man... Those women best $2,000 I ever spent Thanks again Ally shame you couldn't come.

 

[UltimateRazer]

I tried private messaging Plank in a cool manner on FB just to get clarification and a direction in what would happen next but no response. What happens next?

 

[Pi]

Nah. we spilt the pot down the middle Laijin and 3 were just there when we had our tournament money party. Oh man... Those women best $2,000 I ever spent Thanks again Ally shame you couldn't come.

yea man pity he couldn't show

we snorted our seven gram rocks while we got our tiger blood infusions on

At this point, I'm just utterly shocked that there are several people in this community who think it's okay not to pay out tournaments, just because there is no contract.

who exactly is saying that it's okay for him not to pay the tourney winners.

 

[AllyKnight]

Nah. we spilt the pot down the middle Laijin and 3 were just there when we had our tournament money party. Oh man... Those women best $2,000 I ever spent Thanks again Ally shame you couldn't come.

shoot LOL made me laugh.

I feel bad for Armada the most. But I traveled ALOT to get to Pound (over 35 hours of travelling)

And spend alot of money to get there. And I had a hard time winning the tournament. This is why I'm pissed.

Plank better do something still. If he tried to actually help out the winners, I'd totally forgive him even if it was in a year or 2

 

[Renth]

jlsjhfkashdfkh




Double post

 

[Renth]

I tried private messaging Plank in a cool manner on FB just to get clarification and a direction in what would happen next but no response. What happens next?

Yes, I guess you are one of the 200 people trying to contact him via telephone, smash forums and face book. Did you ever stop to think It isn't your place to try to council with him? The majority of these threads proclaim to only want answers and they are not to bash plank in any way but scroll through them they are all the same with the same three or four people saying the same thing over and over. It is mind boggling how many times I've been banned off of this website for a lot less harassment than what i've seen the past few days.

shoot LOL made me laugh.

I feel bad for Armada the most. But I traveled ALOT to get to Pound (over 35 hours of travelling)

And spend alot of money to get there. And I had a hard time winning the tournament. This is why I'm pissed.

Plank better do something still. If he tried to actually help out the winners, I'd totally forgive him even if it was in a year or 2

Yes and I understand you specifically have every right to feel that way. This matter is between you, Plank, and the other winners. Not for the entire community to pass judgment on a man who made a mistake.

 

[DoctorBendz]

i don't understand the screenshots from his bank account. It's a bunch of smaller charges (that all look like room charges likely, aka all the extra rooms plank said he got, and then a single lump of $3,600 - so i'm confused. I would expect the venue to cost around the $10-$15k range, and for the base cost of the room, i would think they would charge the entire bill at once. Separate rooms are paid in separate things, but the base of the room would be the largest cost, which we're seeing $3,600.

Idk, whatever, and since this bugs me so much, i'm gonna do the math. I dunno if anyone else did in the thread yet since i haven't read all the pages, but plank claims these are all of the charges to his card from the hotel soo...
$5,027.52 on page 1
$4,177.66 on page 2
$5,389.04 on page 3
+ the $418 he mentioned in the op

total: $15,077.56

prizes are estimated to be $9,716

now lets estimate approximately how much plank received in venue fees...

The average venue fee was say... $27.50... To be safe. The venue fee was $27.50 in the month of december. The largest amount of people signed up in january and february, but this somewhat offsets the earlier months starting at october. Honestly the avg venue is likely higher.

Next we can just add the entrants between the singles events of the two games. There was some people that joined both events such as inui and vex, but this is offset by people who might have just entered singles, or the generous list of spectators, such as the project m crowd and such who are listed as paying spectators in the pound 5 op.

Brawl had 151 entrants and melee had 243 entrants, totaling 394 players. At $27.50 each that's $10,835. Round it up to $11,000 because of spectators, extra fee from door signups, which should shoot it over 11k but then subtracting some discounts and such. For people wondering if spectators are that many, there's 40 spectators in the pound 5 op (so not including even more from at the door) and at $20 each that's a cool $800.

Ok so $11,000 in venue fee and $9,716 in entry fees
plank paid $15,077.56 for the tournament

take the $15,077.56, subtract 11k, and you've got $4,077.56. Even if plank paid that off with the entry fees, he should still have $5,638.44...
So uhh... Plank showed us straight up, those were the charges he got from the hotel. Additionally there was another thing or two on there like a music store which i'm assuming is the mic he said he bought for the event. But yea, over half of the entry fees should still be somewhere, and i'm sure the winners would enjoy getting at least half of their money back, even if it isn't all of it right now.

how is this not the most discussed post?!

 

[CT Chia]

Yea I don't know how lol

I laid out all the numbers, flat out

There should still be over 5k unaccounted for

 

[rhan]

Renth speaking that truth.

Edit: I would talk more about the money but I've just been too lazy to actually read that entire post. lol I have it under my favorites though.

I just looked at all the numbers.

 

[CY]

ayo Plank we want the statements, son! the numbers are out, prove yo ***.

 

[CT Chia]

long post short:

totaling up all those fees plank screenshotted in the OP = $15,000
plank received about $11,000 in venue fees
meaning plank was short $4,000
plank had about $9,000 in entry fees
so if plank paid off the $4,000 debt with $9,000 in entry fees
where's the $5,000 that should be left over?



edit: and to throw in a lil more food for thought
while looking for venues for CoT5, I asked a nice hotel in center city philly, which is comparable to the pound 5 venue, if not a nicer building (and comparable locations). the estimate quote for a 2 day event was $10,000. Obviously I said no thanks and started looking elsewhere for a venue lmao, but 2 day event = 10k, so pound 5 3 day event = about 15k seems about right. This does line up with the bank statement pictures he posted in the OP. However if there are more fee's he's not showing us (to make up for that missing 15k), that means this tournament cost more than 15k to run. If he had talked to the venue and they said it would cost more than 15k to run, then plank should have turned around and walked out the door lmao. picking a venue that would make the tournament cost any more than 15k is absolutely ridiculous, so I HOPE it's no more than that or plank was doomed from the very beginning.

 

[Renth]

how is this not the most discussed post?!

It's a shame a man has to show off his status report just to defend himself against friends he considered family. Remember how much Plank has done for the community as a whole the sooner we stop the slander the better. I understand people feel the need to vent whenever the matter doesn't concern them in any way, these threads should be removed and the matter should be dealt with those who are involved. Putting this on display and brainless internet zombies get a say in things that aren't their business always leads to a lot of unnecessary hate, lies, and rumors. Much like people saying Plank was taking the money and moving to California.

long post short:

totaling up all those fees plank screenshotted in the OP = $15,000
plank received about $11,000 in venue fees
meaning plank was short $4,000
plank had about $9,000 in entry fees
so if plank paid off the $4,000 debt with $9,000 in entry fees
where's the $5,000 that should be left over?

No one has that answer but Plank himself and so long every one in the community is knocking down his door with a torch and pitch fork, I don't see him rushing in to tell everyone every detail.

 

[rhan]

I don't believe Plank needs to answer to the SWF. Just the players that are owed.




Sooooo with that said.. yeah...

Edit: @ Chibo: That is a good question. I'm curious about it now.

 

[WatchYourRadar]

I don't understand the screenshots from his bank account. It's a bunch of smaller charges (that all look like room charges likely, aka all the extra rooms Plank said he got, and then a single lump of $3,600 - so I'm confused. I would expect the venue to cost around the $10-$15k range, and for the base cost of the room, I would think they would charge the entire bill at once. Separate rooms are paid in separate things, but the base of the room would be the largest cost, which we're seeing $3,600.

idk, whatever, and since this bugs me so much, I'm gonna do the math. I dunno if anyone else did in the thread yet since I haven't read all the pages, but Plank claims these are all of the charges to his card from the hotel soo...
$5,027.52 on page 1
$4,177.66 on page 2
$5,389.04 on page 3
+ the $418 he mentioned in the OP

Total: $15,077.56

Prizes are estimated to be $9,716

Now lets estimate approximately how much Plank received in venue fees...

The average venue fee was say... $27.50... TO BE SAFE. The venue fee was $27.50 in the month of december. The largest amount of people signed up in January and February, but this somewhat offsets the earlier months starting at October. Honestly the avg venue is likely higher.

Next we can just add the entrants between the singles events of the two games. There was some people that joined both events such as Inui and Vex, but this is offset by people who might have just entered singles, or the generous list of spectators, such as the Project M crowd and such who are listed as paying spectators in the Pound 5 OP.

Brawl had 151 entrants and Melee had 243 entrants, totaling 394 players. At $27.50 each that's $10,835. Round it up to $11,000 because of spectators, extra fee from door signups, which should shoot it over 11k but then subtracting some discounts and such. For people wondering if spectators are that many, there's 40 spectators in the Pound 5 OP (so not including even more from at the door) and at $20 each that's a cool $800.

Ok so $11,000 in venue fee and $9,716 in entry fees
Plank paid $15,077.56 for the tournament

Now Plank claims that there's no distinction between venue and entry fees which is an outright lie, or it would be a flat rate to enter each event and it wouldn't say X amount to venue and X amount to entry, however whatever whatever...

Take the $15,077.56, subtract 11k, and you've got $4,077.56. Even if Plank paid that off with the entry fees, he should still have $5,638.44...
So uhh... Plank showed us straight up, those were the charges he got from the hotel. Additionally there was another thing or two on there like a music store which I'm assuming is the mic he said he bought for the event. But yea, over half of the entry fees should still be somewhere, and I'm sure the winners would enjoy getting at least half of their money back, even if it isn't all of it right now.

I think your estimations on everything are spot on, but I am also assuming that Plank probably had to pay down payments etc on the venue. The last 3 grand was the final payment. So the 15000 dollars is probably more like 20000.

On a different note, can we all not just sit down and chill out for a minute? I have been reading these threads closely, and from what has been said, I am sure there is no one who feels as bad as Plank. Starting there, I am not defending his actions. Clearly everything that has happened is destructive to the community. Both defending Plank, and attacking him destroy the very fabric this community is built upon, sportsmanship and integrity. We need to sit back and remember that this is a game that we play. Something we do for fun and because we enjoy competition. Get back to the roots.

The winners deserve money, Plank deserves forgiveness. These are not mutually exclusive ideas, as both sides would like to make it seem. They can both work. It pains me to see the hardcore division here. We can try to be forgiving while still holding Plank to the high standards that he has set for himself. But for the love of God, give the man a break. He made a mistake, a large one at that. Give him a chance to fix it. Give him a chance to speak without making him feel like he is being threatened.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

who exactly is saying that it's okay for him not to pay the tourney winners.

The event happening at all is more important than the prizewinners being paid out. The cash was NEVER yours, it is not stealing. Prizes come after the event venue gets paid off, sorry, that's how it works.

he is.......

 

[UltimateRazer]

Yes, I guess you are one of the 200 people trying to contact him via telephone, smash forums and face book. Did you ever stop to think It isn't your place to try to council with him? The majority of these threads proclaim to only want answers and they are not to bash plank in any way but scroll through them they are all the same with the same three or four people saying the same thing over and over. It is mind boggling how many times I've been banned off of this website for a lot less harassment than what i've seen the past few days.





Yes and I understand you specifically have every right to feel that way. This matter is between you, Plank, and the other winners. Not for the entire community to pass judgment on a man who made a mistake.

No, I'm one of the 16 people who are owed money in this event so getting in contact with him is the only way for me to council with him. I havn't made a thread nor a single post about this matter and took it up privately in a cool manner. I have not harassed him in anyway so cool your jets.

 

[idea]

tbh my guess is that those calculations are missing some variables. not that chibo made a mistake, but that there's probably something unaccounted for. it's also possible that plank didn't show absolutely every charge on his account. (i dunno why he wouldn't, just sayin')

and in any case i don't think anyone trying to steal any amount of money would post screenshots of their bank charges. like that just wouldn't make sense lol

but

f he had talked to the venue and they said it would cost more than 15k to run, then plank should have turned around and walked out the door lmao.

this.

 

[Renth]

I don't believe Plank needs to answer to the SWF. Just the players that are owed.




Sooooo with that said.. yeah...

That I disagree with, he owes everyone an explanation but only to clear his name that if people had approached this matter with maturity.. things wouldn't have gotten this far out of control. I imagine if everyone calmed down he would post more often.

No, I'm one of the 16 people who are owed money in this event so getting in contact with him is the only way for me to council with him. I havn't made a thread nor a single post about this matter and took it up privately in a cool manner. I have not harassed him in anyway so cool your jets.

Thank you for proving my point further, you are one of the people he should talk to. However, with 200 other people jumping down his throat do you really think he's in a hurry to get back to anyone? It's not my jets that need cooled my friend.

 

[MASAHIROx]

**** being in debt to a bunch of gamers. Especially if he can legally avoid it. It's just your gamer friends. Start a new life in Cali. ... LOL Put yourself in his shoes. In the end, their just your friends. Cover your own *** first.

The poor kid just got his balls chopped off by his own community.

**** HAPPENS. SUE ME!

Plank is still a *****. And always will be.

He's being reallllllll shady.
MAN UP AND PAY WHAT YOU OWE JON.

A friend that fakes on money is not a friend for long. Especially if he's dumb enough to have his tourney at an expensive hotel and offer unaffordable housing in the same venue. dummy.



DJRome and Voodoo have been quite entertaining.
Chibo made a great point.


Now im just depressed that I haven't gotten laid in 3 months...

 

[Pi]

Yea I don't know how lol

I laid out all the numbers, flat out

There should still be over 5k unaccounted for

rounded or estimated in many cases

All these charges were pretty much during/following the tournament, I'm sure plank had to put money down before it actually got underway to even get the hotel to agree to let him do this especially if he was signing into a contract where tens of thousands of dollars were at stake.

I would like to see this post addressed by plank though.

 

[AXE 09]

I posted my thoughts in another thread, but I'll copy/paste here:

Personally, even though Plank made a huge mistake, I still sympathize for him and I still see him as a good person.

He ran all of his previous tournaments very well, and when he made this big mistake, at least he had the courage to make a detailed post explaining what happened. I'm willing to bet that a large majority of people in his situation would've just disappeared without saying anything.

On top of everything, he's a really nice guy, and I know he didn't mean any harm. Unfortunately, he DID cause harm to us. So I definitely understand why everyone is upset, especially the top players. He messed up really bad, but I think it's just the fact that I know he didn't mean any harm or do any of this on purpose that makes me forgiving.

 

[CT Chia]

I think your estimations on everything are spot on, but I am also assuming that Plank probably had to pay down payments etc on the venue. The last 3 grand was the final payment. So the 15000 dollars is probably more like 20000.

This is definitely a possibility, but why wouldn't plank mention... oh btw there was an additional $5,000 i paid before lol. kind of hard to forget something like that, and it would clear up everything. and tbh if the venue cost approx $20,000 and Plank went ahead and hosted a smash tournament that cost $20,000 he is absolutely insane. And if he hosted a smash tournament that cost $20,000 with a $20-$35 (by this i mean it's very little for such a high venue price) venue fee and a handfull of discounts, plank is out of his freicken mind and I would not expect this from someone who has hosted nationals previously.

tbh my guess is that those calculations are missing some variables. not that chibo made a mistake, but that there's probably something unaccounted for. it's also possible that plank didn't show absolutely every charge on his account.

and in any case i don't think anyone trying to steal any amount of money would post screenshots of their bank charges. like that just wouldn't make sense lol

this is certainly a possibility that I missed something somewhere, but let's be real, are these missing variables worth over $5,000? Unlikely. A few hundred to a thousand? Perhaps. Five g's? No.

--

Btw if anyone is wondering (since I hope to shed some light on the situation being another national tourney host and I'm just looking for the truth), the process for renting out my CoT5 venue is as such.

I contacted the venue, got a quote and such
Continued to work with them, explained exactly what I needed to every detail
Exact bill is drawn up
Contract is signed and 25% of the venue cost is paid
Two weeks before the event the remaining 75% is paid

Obviously this is going to be different place to place, especially seeing Plank's charges being made on Feb 24th and 25th (after the tourney), but it helps put some perspective on the situation.

 

[rhan]

That I disagree with, he owes everyone an explanation but only to clear his name that if people had approached this matter with maturity.. things wouldn't have gotten this far out of control. I imagine if everyone calmed down he would post more often.





Thank you for proving my point further, you are one of the people he should talk to. However, with 200 other people jumping down his throat do you really think he's in a hurry to get back to anyone? It's not my jets that need cooled my friend.

Clearing his name is different then actually paying people what is owed. He shouldn't approach anyone that this doesn't directly effect. To be blunt about it; He doesn't have to do anything except pay his debts.

The way he's going about paying these debts I see wrong but there isn't anything we can do about it. The way he perceives using the collected money to pay off everything then distributing the leftovers to the tourney winners is quite immoral. He shouldn't have hosted such an event if he already didn't have the funds or plan out how much each person needed to pay for venue fee.