Pokemon Battle! Which Pokemon deserves a Brawl spot the most?

[kaid]

Consider Yoshi for a minute. yes, there, are random Yoshis, but there is also a specific Yoshi, who dated back to his creation in Super Mario World ("Hello, I'm Yoshi" "Yoshi and his friends are now one step closer...")

Consider Koopa Troopa. McFox has long been a fan of this character, and several movesets have been made, but the biggest complaint is that he's "too generic." By being a random encounter foe, he loses his importance.

Pokemon, on the other hand ONLY has random encounter foes. Aside from Mewtwo and certian other Legendaries, there ARE no unique, individual pokemon... in the games.

Sakurai has to make his value judgements from outside the games.

You’ll see many famous characters persevering under the weight of their personal histories...

Pika, of course, is the mascot, the star of the anime, and the face of pokemon, so he had to go in. Now, it's not nessisaraly Ash's Pikachu... but it CAN be, in the Red costume. So when Sakurai goes looking for "history" for this generic pikachu, the obvious place to start looking is where one Pikachu has had over 10 years of history- the anime.

Mewtwo has more backstory in his own right, even in the games. He doesn't need anime influence as badly... but it adds to his flavor slightly. I predict a hybrid.

Jiggs lacks any of this, which is one reason I suspect Jiggs may not be returning... or atleast will not play any significant role in SubEm.

Now, what other pokemon have deep personal histories (in any source)?

 

[Fawriel]

Gardevoir!

\o/

 

[Black/Light]

Consider Yoshi for a minute. yes, there, are random Yoshis, but there is also a specific Yoshi, who dated back to his creation in Super Mario World ("Hello, I'm Yoshi" "Yoshi and his friends are now one step closer...") I don't see that as much of a difference. Unless that ONE Yosh was called Tommy or w/e to seperate him from any wild Yosh.

Consider Koopa Troopa. McFox has long been a fan of this character, and several movesets have been made, but the biggest complaint is that he's "too generic." By being a random encounter foe, he loses his importance.

Pokemon, on the other hand ONLY has random encounter foes. (Que? Your talking as if the actual main character (your player) is in) Aside from Mewtwo and certian other Legendaries, there ARE no unique, individual pokemon... in the games. (I JUST pointed Gard in MD out to you. But if we are talking about getting into brawl based on being a random character (Cause IDK what Koopa Troopa has to do with this) than it's fame and popularity that get the spot. If we are talking about story mode than, to be blunt, your flat out wrong.
Pokemon MD is the ONE game where many pokemon have potential back stories and thats one of the many MANY lines he can go down to make pokemon stories w/o the use of the anime. Much like how he made the animations/ personals and models for the pokemon in smash based on the 3D games when it could have been the anime that he used.)


Sakurai has to make his value judgements from outside the games. (No he doesn't)

You’ll see many famous characters persevering under the weight of their personal histories...

Pika, of course, is the mascot, the star of the anime, and the face of pokemon, so he had to go in. Now, it's not nessisaraly Ash's Pikachu... but it CAN be, in the Red costume. (Pika never wears the hat in the anime often enuff to label him. Thats just Red's hat from the games) So when Sakurai goes looking for "history" for this generic pikachu, the obvious place to start looking is where one Pikachu has had over 10 years of history- the anime. (Funny, history for a random generic Pika being focused on the history of one actual Pika. Basing the history of a random generic character on the history of a singual character sounds backwards to me. That would make smash Pika Ash's Pika. . . .meaning it aint random anymore)

Mewtwo has more backstory in his own right, even in the games. He doesn't need anime influence as badly... but it adds to his flavor slightly. I predict a hybrid. (Mew2 don't need any hybrid. He is the bad guy in every game hes in)

Jiggs lacks any of this, which is one reason I suspect Jiggs may not be returning... or atleast will not play any significant role in SubEm. (Thats a lame reason. . . )

Now, what other pokemon have deep personal histories (in any source)?

You asked for it. . . .
ANY Pokemon can be given a role from the Mysterious Dungeon game. They can be rescuing other characters or pokemon as their "deep story" (Im very much sure that there will be a MD bannada as a cos for atleast one of the pokemon)
Gard can be the helper Soul that they must save like in the first one (that can be her story).

In the anime? There are waaay too many pokemon with "deep personal histories" to effectively list.
Pichu bros
Ash's Char/ Sceptile/ [insert any Ash pokemon]
Meowth
Any legendary
Buizel
Weavle
Mime Jr
Buneary
That Meowth with the hat.
etc etc etc etc etc. . . .
Really, you seem to take it as axiomatic that the anime HAS to be used for the pokemon characters.

 

[DeathAngel]

Blank

I'm going with lucario an this one. All the other choices seemed like the would be hard to use. And Lucario has eared it!!

 

[kaid]

I see Sakurai blending the diference between the game and anime.

Your views seem to live up to your most common min-naming, Black/White.

Your automatic rejection of any suggestion that hints at any influence outside the games, for one. Pokemon is more than just the games these days.

 

[Ignatius]

And the answer is: Pokemon Trainer/Charizard/Ivysaur/Squirtle.

 

[Iggy K]

Sakurai: Ha ha screw you Lucario fans, Pokemon Trainer's getting confirmed first instead.

 

[Dynamism]

THE VERY FIRST THING I SAID IN THIS THREAD WAS "CHARIZARD FWT"

Who called it WOOT WOOT!!!

 

[PyrasTerran]

An important question in MY mind is: Now that 3 new pokemon are technically playable, does that mean that, other than Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo, they won't be adding anyone else?

 

[Fawriel]

An important question in MY mind is: Now that 3 new pokemon are technically playable, does that mean that, other than Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo, they won't be adding anyone else?

That would inevitably cause me to hate this update.
Which I don't want.
This is the ultimate in originality, Pokemon-flavor.

But dammit, I want Gardevoir or Lucario, not Jigglypuff...

 

[commonyoshi]

I sure hope not. I'd like to see at least ONE more new pokemon in Brawl. It can be anything as long as it's after the 1st gen.

Go dunsparce.

 

[Kirby knight]

Lucario really strikes me as more of a 1 of pokermon not to be controlled by a Trainer in SSBB. To be honest not representing D/P in SSBB would be kinda foolish. Lucario still has a very very very high chance of being in imo.

I do love the update though, bring back the RBY times.

 

[Drascin]

I have been hearing a lot of voices lately saying "actually the pokemon are but random encounters - the protagonist is the trainer". I never paid them any heed, because I thought putting a trainer in was nonsense.

Well, out-mindgamed again. Sakurai has blindsided everyone and put the trainer in the game, and it looks actually fun to play. I honestly quit from trying to second-guess that man.

Though, this certainly does look bleak for the number of other selectable pokemon characters... after all, the Trainer is three movesets in one, which means he fills a lot of the space. Lucario fans, Blaziken fans, Gardevoir fans... all of us better lower our hopes a bit. Awww.

 

[Lith17]

Oh crap, i didn't know i would be right. a pokemon trainer as a character. for the nay sayers out there, there you go. there you go

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I actaully wanted a Pokemon Trainer to be playable since SSB64 came out, but I never expected the day to come XD. The best part is he's RED!!! Pokemon Trainer FTW!!!

 

[Black/Light]

. .. . Good god.
In one update Sakurai SMASHED the "starters can't be playable because he aint going to put in all 3" fan made rule AND the "the trainer can't get in because what can they do? Call out pokemon? That wouldn't work" fan made rule AND he has shown Trainer Red. . . which supports my "he uses the game and not the anime" post.

ONE character. . . 3 move sets. . . a pokemon trainer. . . I never thought this would happen. Sakurai is the god of tricky.

 

[PyrasTerran]

I noticed that each of the three monsters have a 'stamina' other than the damage counter. This kind of thing would prevent anyone from exclusively choosing one monster to use, effectively. Possibly. What do you think the downside would be to switching too rarely/too often?

 

[Black/Light]

^^^ Effects of using one more than the others too often?
Pokemon becomes laggy/ tired/ weaker until it goes into it's p[okeyball for a lil well to rest.

MAYBE theres a set number of times you can use a attack like the PPs in the game so their move-set lowers when using a attack too much.

 

[Fawriel]

I think if you switch them out too often or not enough, after a while, the Pokemon start showing signs of exhaustions ( like sweatdrops or hunching over and wheezing or something like that )... the longer you keep on playing despite that, the more often it will happen that a Pokemon will be unresponsive for a second. That could SERIOUSLY mess up one's game if you decide only to use Charizard's superawesomebroken flaming martial arts or Squirtles totally overpowered BUBBLY NINJA skills or Ivysaur's raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaange!

 

[Black/Light]

I see Sakurai blending the diference between the game and anime.

Your views seem to live up to your most common min-naming, Black/White.

Your automatic rejection of any suggestion that hints at any influence outside the games, for one. Pokemon is more than just the games these days.

WELL, they are using Trainer RED and not had-10-years-of-anime-history Ash so I guess thats another point for me.

Never said they HAD to make it game only, just that anime doesn't HAVE to be used and that games are used MUCH more.

And SandMan (maker of the anti Lucario thread) just won the web for one day in smash land.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

I won too. Everyone kept saying Red in Brawl was a horrible idea. =(

 

[Black/Light]

I won too. Everyone kept saying Red in Brawl was a horrible idea. =(

yeah, just saw your thread. You won too. . . it's a shared win LOL.

 

[PyrasTerran]

WELL, they are using Trainer RED and not had-10-years-of-anime-history Ash so I guess thats another point for me.

Never said they HAD to make it game only, just that anime doesn't HAVE to be used and that games are used MUCH more.

Ash has never been in the games. So he could never be in Smash Bros. anyway.

 

[Black/Light]

Ash has never been in the games. So he could never be in Smash Bros. anyway.

That was my point about Mr talking movie Lucario. He was saying that Sakurai would use a anime character to better make the story mode for brawl because of how lil story the Pokemon characters have (as in, a random Lucario talks and crap like the anime one).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Now Red is in, Jiggly's changes of returning have seriously dropped. As some of you might know; Pit was originally ment to be in Smash 64 but got replaced by Jiggz in the final version, and having Pikachu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Mewtwo AND Jigglypuff playable... isn't that a little TOO much 1st gen rep? This hurts Mewtwo's changes aswell... But his 'status' in the games might safe him, since he's legendary and all thus infact he'd easly be able to handle all 3 Pokémon at once, but Jiggly might look weird.

 

[Fawriel]

Will you hate me if I say that I hope Jiggly's out?
Roster spots don't grow on trees, the chances of my dear Gardevoir dropped as well, and I just started liking Lucario, too...

I wonder whether it would be appropriate to make a seperate topic for speculation on the PT's Pokemon's moves.

 

[_Slick_]

Blaziken and Lucario.

But Blaziken is pure awesome.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Will you hate me if I say that I hope Jiggly's out?

I won't hate you, largely because I've never cared for the puff much anyway.

Still, I just get the impression that Sakurai has been looking fr an excuse to cut Jiggs, and with having PT using the 1st gen starter pokemon, and as I doubt pokemon would get more than 5 reps at most, it just seems like 1st gen overkill.

Still, trying to predict Sakurai is clearly a fools game now as shown by todays update.

 

[PyrasTerran]

That was my point about Mr talking movie Lucario.

No, that is a completely different matter.

Because it's all too possible that all Lucario can speak telepathically. Plus, just like Pikachu and Mewtwo have taken on the personalities of their anime counterparts, it's plausible, nay probable, that if Lucario is in the game Sakurai is going to look at the movie to get an idea of how Lucario behaves. He might even use the same voice actor from the Japanese version like what he did with Marth and Mewtwo.

But all this is completely pointless because every character in Smash Bros. is originally a trophy, not the original character.

 

[Drascin]

Will you hate me if I say that I hope Jiggly's out?
Roster spots don't grow on trees, the chances of my dear Gardevoir dropped as well, and I just started liking Lucario, too...

I wonder whether it would be appropriate to make a seperate topic for speculation on the PT's Pokemon's moves.

Not hate, per se, but I have always liked the pink puffball, and she's my best character, so I'd be a bit sad to see her go. However, if it's to give her spot to Garde or Lucario or even the possibly-cut Mewtwo, I think I could deal with it.

...And then proceed to beat the crap out of every one of my friends with whoever's her substitute as a felt tribute for the eight years of continual asskicking she's brought me . It's the least she deserves.

 

[the grim lizard]

I don't want any of the lame 4th gen...>_< I'm glad we're going to have (likely) six 1st gens. (essentially)

On another note, does this mean Blastoise is gone from the game altogether??? 0_o

 

[thrak]

What does blastoise have 2 do with NEthing. the more likely 2 go is charizard as a pokeball.

 

[Bobby Emerald]

Either Lucario or Blaziken will be in Brawl. That's what I think.

 

[Dynamism]

Jigggs Mewtwo and Marawak FTW lol
Seriously though

Charizards in, that's all I wanted really

 

[kaid]

WELL, they are using Trainer RED and not had-10-years-of-anime-history Ash so I guess thats another point for me.

Actually, the character name is "Pokemon trainer." It never says "Red" anywhere.

And Ash DID favor his Squirtle and Charizard... Ivasaur balances out the trio.


Sakurai has put starters in, but he has done so in a way that, IMO, proves Blaziken will NOT be playable in brawl. The major fan complaint was you cant put one starter without putting them all in. Sakurai took one trio, and brought them all in. But sakurai still hasn't broken the "fairness" fanrule that stands in the way of Blaze. If Blaze got in, they'd have to add Sceptile and Swampert.

 

[Black/Light]

Actually, the character name is "Pokemon trainer." It never says "Red" anywhere.

And Ash DID favor his Squirtle and Charizard... Ivasaur balances out the trio.


Sakurai has put starters in, but he has done so in a way that, IMO, proves Blaziken will NOT be playable in brawl. The major fan complaint was you cant put one starter without putting them all in. Sakurai took one trio, and brought them all in. But sakurai still hasn't broken the "fairness" fanrule that stands in the way of Blaze. If Blaze got in, they'd have to add Sceptile and Swampert.

1. It's MODELED after trainer Red.

2. Everyone also said it would be "unfair" to have any starter in cause you would have to and them ALL.(every flipping gen of them) This proves them wrong.

3. This doesn't really do anything other than hurt the chances for ANY new pokemon (they are ALL characters save the down B. Sakurai could have made them each a character like Pika if he gave them a Down B so Trainer Red has the work of 3 characters in him. . . and they are all in the pokemon series). Doesn't "prove" Blaze has to come with the other 2 (Could be Pokemon DM Blaze).

4. I couldn't care less about Blaze at this point!!! I got what I wanted. . . . for pokemon to have a completely unique-to-pokemon character. We have the first water user in smash, the first FULLY 4 legged character in smash (and it's a plant type) and we have a flying fire shooting dragon in smash. And they are ALL put into one alsome character that actually goes back to what Pokemon is IN there games.
Im happy. . . you, on the other hand, should be worried (IF your not happy).

@PyrasTerran
Pika and Mew2 got thier personalities from the games. Mewtwo mass mundered a mansion full of people and could talk in the games so him being evil aint something new. Pika's animations are based on the console game so they aint those of the anime Pika. They are both based on the console games 3D pokemon.

And I repeat, random Lucario can't do mind-talk. That was as mush of a anime only thing as trainer Red being Ash.

 

[the grim lizard]

What does blastoise have 2 do with NEthing. the more likely 2 go is charizard as a pokeball.

Squirtle is in. You just never know...They always had the three 3rd forms of the starters (Blatoise, Venusaur, Charizard). Now that one is playable, and the other two are just different evolution forms, you just never know...

 

[PyrasTerran]

Mewtwo mass mundered a mansion full of people and could talk in the games so him being evil aint something new.

Buddy, that was ADDED in LATER games AFTER the movie. nice try, but you're not going to find that in Red, Blue, or even Yellow version.

Pika's animations are based on the console game so they aint those of the anime Pika. They are both based on the console games 3D pokemon.

And yet who does the voicework? The voice actor of the show's pikachu. By your logic, they would have used any random hooha to voice this pikachu since you swear it has no relation to the anime.

They are both based on the console games 3D pokemon.

baloney. if they were then they would use the same digital screeching that the pokemon in the stadium games do. You're grasping at straws.

And I repeat, random Lucario can't do mind-talk.

Sorry, but you can't prove that. On the other hand Lucario's dex shows all the signs of being able to mind-talk. It can already read minds and understand human speech.

 

[kaid]

It's modeled after trainer red... AND Hoen Ash. They have the same outfit.

Sakurai has tacitly "proven" the trio rule in this update. In any given pokemon trio, one cannot get in without the other 2. Sakurai put them in anyway... without violating this rule.

And show me where Mewtwo could talk in the games.

 

[kaid]

It's modeled after trainer red... AND Hoen Ash. They have the same outfit.

Sakurai has tacitly "proven" the trio rule in this update. In any given pokemon trio, one cannot get in without the other 2. Sakurai put them in anyway... without violating this rule.

And show me where Mewtwo could talk in the games.