Pokemon Battle! Which Pokemon deserves a Brawl spot the most?

[Black/Light]

Good goddess you make long post. . . Like your trying to push it up to 11 or something

Whole first part of la crap.

I was simply pointing out that Sakura just doesn't set around and talk to everyone and their momas about things. He IS good at what he does and Miyamoto would most likely be used in place of alot of devs when it comes down to it (Character design/ changes to attacks etc).

You said something about Sakurai and GameFreak meeting just 'to make Lucario popular.' I said no, they wouldn't do that. Obviously.

Funny, the way you said it seemed very "unsure".

So(supposedly,) Pit's designer didn't see the model and redesign until after it was finished. What does this have to do with anything? It just means that Sakurai didn't show it to him during the period of time where they were making it. That's like a two week span of time. So Pitt's model, first sit of attacks and trailer animation where all made in the 2 weeks before E3 06? We know this how? The only point here is that Sakurai didn't meet with the manager of a tiny, old franchise for like two weeks during development. Which was my point, he doesn't HAVE to do the things you where stating ? And (supposedly) they like the Fox model so they're going to use it in the next Star Fox. How does that signify that Sakurai hadn't been talking to them regularly anyway? From what I read and the way it sounded [insert name] was impressed with the new model for Fox and sounded as if he hadn't seen it before hand.

????

Would they select what is "Brawl material?" Maybe. Look, there's literally only one of three ways this could have gone down.
1) GameFreak shows Sakurai all new 4th gen pokemon. Marketing DOES play a role in this, so they point out the ones that will be used to push the gen, noting them a little aside from all the rest. Dialga, Palkia, Darkrai, Munchlax, Lucario, whoever else whoever else. Sakurai knows he exists along with the rest.
2) Sakurai outright asks "I want to see them all, but (because he's a very respectful man, as we know,) is there anybody you think would be good for the game?" (. . . WTF?!?) A number of them would certainly be mentioned, along with Lucario. Sakurai knows he exists, along with the rest.
3) Either party tenaciously asks or presents relevant pokemon right off the bat. Sakurai asks questions like, "So I heard about Lucario/Darkrai/Gallade(?)," or The Pokemon Company says, "Actually, we've got a few already lined up we think would be pretty good for the game, (our pokemans, let us show you them.)" Sakurai knows he exists, and he has even been relatively pushed for the position.
Actually, I think theres a few more to these. . .
4) Sakurai ask them "which of the new pokemon will be relevant to the time in which brawl comes out in terms of movies and what is said character's role in that movie?". In which case he would be directed to the latest possible movie before Brawl's release. (I say this because IMO movie's would only be a factor if A)their the most important (see Mewtwo strikes back. The biggest anime movie hit in US theater history) or B)their the latest in line. )
5) Sakurai simply ask to see w/e pokemon are new to the series and, with no help from them or "pushing" from their end, chooses his pick w/o thoughts of marketing, anime or movies in mind. Again, I point to Gard. The only pokemon he has openly shown any interest in is Gard and she was in the anime only twice with very lil marketing on her side.
6) Sakurai chooses to focus on the 3rd gen first and only use the 4th gen as a after thought. We have no proof that theres even any 4th gen pokemon in the game nor do we have proof that Sakurai is interested in focusing on it to the level of choosing a character so he can very well just toss in Pach as the Pika decloned clone and be done with it.

On a side note something just really makes me feel that GF doesn't care as much about getting w/e pokemon they use for w/e reason in brawl as you are trying to make it seem. It's not like DP will sell any better if a marketing pokemon is in Brawl at this point.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no way in hell Sakurai could've gone to talk to TPC about the new batch of pokeymans and Lucario COULDN'T have come up.

Well we have different views on this. I personally can't say Sakurai took out the time to meet with GF just on the subject of the 4th gen nor can I say that he will or will not have a 4th gen pokemon be a PC in brawl. We don't know theses things so I find it useless to argue as if he typed down somewhere on the site that he has seen the newest pokeys and chose one to be in brawl in some form (we haven't even seen a 4th gen pokemon in the game as a pokeball summon yet so how do we know they are even in the game?).

Again, um, no, he doesn't have to keep everyone constantly in the loop, as you said. But Sakurai WOULD have spoken with all parties before he finalized the character roster selection. Simple as that.

To what degree?

1) Sakurai had to have known about Lucario before finalizing the roster. Who the hell said he didn't? Logically, if he looks at TV, he would have seen Lucario with or without talking to GF seeing as that movie came out in 05.
2) Sakurai very likely knew how much Nintendo was going to hype Lucario for the fourth gen. Hype? Im still confused at all this "Lucario is the icon because he is used to market w/e and what not" stance by soo many people. I see him on the upper level of marketing but not the clear cut leader.

Following this logic: Sakurai most likely knows that Lucario is going to be very well hyped (Hype can be a very bad thing) and likely widely known(Amoung who?). He is an appropriate size for Brawl, generally uses moves that could both be bent into an interesting moveset while very well-fitting for a fighting game, (Yes, because he has shown a pattern of choosing which pokemon are fitting fighters. . .) and has loads of personality (whether you like that personality or not is, unfortunately, irrelevant.)

What personality? Movie Lucario? I don't think one anime pokemon having a persona counts as "loads of personality".

Like him or not...these are fairly solid assumptions that state that Lucario, simply, has a good chance of being in Brawl. If you can't honestly fess up to these facts and admit he has a good chance of being in the game, then you're not even trying to properly debate.

To be blunt I never SAID he didn't have a "good chance". Did I think he had a truely solid chance like I thought Deoxy and Blaze did? Sure, I thought that at some point in time.
Do I think that Lucario's chances of being in this game are as high as most Lucario supporters say? No.
Do I think Lucario is one of the "upper level" pokey picks for the 4th gen? Logically he isn't huge, can walk and has some means of holding things so that sets him apart in that aspect. And he is seen in the upper levels of marketing so he is in the logical "upper level" ranks of a 4th gen pick for brawl.
Do I think it's a clear cut chance over the other "upper level" pokey picks for the 4th gen? No.

If you want to tell me he 'shouldn't be in,' he's boring, that there are many other more interesting pokemon, feel free. That's great. But the fact remains: he is a contender for that open spot.

Who said he wasn't a "contender"? Hell, aipom evol is a "contender" too. . .

And Jesus, what's with you people and having seizure-fits about the movie? It...exists, doesn't it? That means it matters. People bought the DVD. Period: it matters.

I hate the logic that movie=OMGZ and reason to be in brawl. I see it like this, if the anime is so important to pokemon getting into brawl than where the hell is that cat thats probly been in more shows than pike (Only IF you count the Pokemon C spin off which focuses on the Pichu bros and Meowth), been in every movie and has more personallity that must?
And it's not like they don't make a movie every year.

Deoxys and his movie aren't really much for a point of comparison. As a candidate, he has a number of features that make him less likely, and frankly, he accrued very little personality during the course of his movie. (WTH is up with this personality=anime appearance stuff?) To the best of my knowledge, he didn't even have any speaking roles during the film: just during his 'highlight' episode of the show. (And even that was through Meowth...like Haunter did.) Long and short: Deoxys is a bit less fitting for Brawl in the first place, and his role in his movie was pretty much inferior to the amount of character development and screentime Lucario received.

How? How is this any merit as to their chances being different with the movies as a reason? Lucario. . . ."I don't like humans any more. I use to but Aaron sealed me away and traded on us. Later- Now I know what really happened and will follow his foot steps and save mew/ the tree of orgin. Deoxy. . . .:wakes up: " Wheres my friend. . . :Ray blasted it into the ocean:. They bring it back to life. . .it keeps looking for it's friend and snaps on Ray before finding her. Than helps Ray by bloking the robots". Lucario didn't have much character development from what I see and I don't see some clear differences between their movie's importance or relivance to brawl. . . Plus, Deoxys was the full on star of his movie well Lucario "co-starred" with Mew.

Lucario had a movie that developed his character and sold DVDs. (Funny, they sell reg pokemon shows on DVD too) I'm pretty sure nobody's going, "HE HAD A MOVIE HE'S IN BRAWL LULZ" (Yea, there are. . . .in fact, there ALOT of people that use either him being "coo" or having one anime appearance as a standing point) We're just saying: that movie counts, and contributes to his popularity, and to how important he is to Nintendo in general. In a proper, open debate, this a major point and can't simply be swept under the rug.

And I dissagree with the over all importance to this point. He was in a movie that was only in Japan theaters before it got DVD slipped like all new pokemon movies not in Japan. His movie came out 2 years ago and even when it got DVD slipped there was very lil advertizement of it. His movie isn't the newest nor does it have any out standing aspects to it and he isn't important to the series or Nintendo as a whole seeing as he doesn't seem to clearly be the most marketed pokey of this gen.

As far as DP is concerned, if you rank by Pokemon that actually somewhat have storylines snippets involving their capture, Lucario is the #1 non-Legendary. Otherwise, you've got that balloon thing, Rotom, some Unown...Happini?

IDK what the importance of that is. Theres always one of pokemon that have story's behind them.

w/e.

But we're not talking about remote possibilities Sakurai could've done. (Most) pro-Lucario fans aren't saying, "He WILL be in Brawl!" (Actually, MOST are just claiming he is the only one that can get in. . .or saying he looks "made for brawl") We're talking about probable events. And when you add all the facts (marketing (Theres a clear cut winner here? I have yet to see a Lucario anything outside of the booster pack) , merchandising, (same) fanbase, (only in the Us/ Uk, and from what I have seen that fan-base aint solid) personality, (What personallity?) icon-status,(How and amoung who?) ) and all the reliable assumptions (Sakurai -most definitely- knows he exists, Sakurai at the very least considers Nintendo's/developers feelings, (And whos to say this leads to Lucario in any way?) ) then the logical conclusion is pretty simple: Lucario's got some pretty ****ed good chances.

Shocking, people said the same about Deoxys. . .

Well, that was fun. If you got something to say in a reply than expect me to reply tomarrow.

 

[kaid]

Lucario is definately more expressive in his movie than Deoxys. This exposes more of his inner conflicts, exposing more personality per plot point.

Deoxys is like an actor who can't act. Good for action movies, but not much else. He's looking for the other one, but he's SUPPOSED to be enigmatic, and unreadable.

Lucario, on the other hand... We saw concentration, determination, distraction, surprise, and resistance, before the opening sequence was even over. Shock at learning he's a thousand years in the future, barely suppressed anger at abandonment (which occasionally breaks loose as beating on Ash, always a plus) and catharsis as he realized why Auron left him. Besides, who can forget him purring in pleasure at the chocolate, realizing pepe were watching, and going stone-faced. And I have heard a great many people say the ending was a tear-jerker.

It's this kind of emotional connection that gives Lucario character development, not a summary of plot points.

 

[Wrath`]

so kaid you get into brawl based on acting?

 

[Black/Light]

Lucario is definately more expressive in his movie than Deoxys. This exposes more of his inner conflicts, exposing more personality per plot point.

Deoxys is like an actor who can't act. Good for action movies, but not much else. He's looking for the other one, but he's SUPPOSED to be enigmatic, and unreadable.

Lucario, on the other hand... We saw concentration, determination, distraction, surprise, and resistance, before the opening sequence was even over. Shock at learning he's a thousand years in the future, barely suppressed anger at abandonment (which occasionally breaks loose as beating on Ash, always a plus) and catharsis as he realized why Auron left him. Besides, who can forget him purring in pleasure at the chocolate, realizing pepe were watching, and going stone-faced. And I have heard a great many people say the ending was a tear-jerker.

It's this kind of emotional connection that gives Lucario character development, not a summary of plot points.

We have seen way more of that from the likes of Meowth.
If theres any anime pokemon that should be in base on character and character development it's Meowth. . . THAN Char. . and Buneary is up there too. (If Pika is the hero/ good guy of the anime and it's reflected in smash than we don't really need 2 good guys now do we? It's not like Lucario's a side kick or team mate in the anime. . )

And again, what does this have to do with the game? That was one Lucario fom one anime appearence to which he died being in. Does the Lucario breed act this way?

Pokemon like Gard have personallity in the games just by how their are talked about in the Pokedex. All Gards protect with their lives and as Ralts they only choose to come out to kind/ happy people. Mew2, both in the anime and in the games, is a villian. Theres only one so how ever that one Mew2 is seen is how Mew2's persona is. Saying that Lucario, if it got in, would be the same Lucario from the ANIME that died is off imo. Thats like me saying. . . "Buizel should soooo be in brawl!!! It would run around on 2 legs all the time and be a bad as* gangsta like Dawn's is in the show!".

And Deoxys was a alian virus pokemon. . . . I have no idea why it would show normal emotions when it used light to talk.

so kaid you get into brawl based on acting?

That seems to be the "OMGZ huge difference" between the 2.

 

[PrinnyFlute]

Jesus Christ.

Anyway. Miyamoto, talk to people for Sakurai? The busiest, most succesful man at Nintendo, who's currently heading up Galaxy and watching however many other products at Nintendo, is doing all Sakurai's dirty work for him in the form of meeting with department heads? ...Do you really think that?

Sakurai's job description is literally managing and talking to people. Do I think he's meeting with everyone twice a week to let them ALL know what's going on? No. That's kind of impossible. But he is talking to people fairly often. Again: that's the main part of a game designers job.

IF indeed these people hadn't seen these models before E3? Then they were just not shown them during that time in development. Sakurai doesn't need constant supervision and permission to have his team -create assets for the game.- He does need permission to pick which characters will be in the game. He has to talk with these people at least that much.

Sakurai outright asks, "Is there anybody you think would be good for Brawl." Umm, is this really WTF worthy? Sakurai cares what people think. He's humble, even for a middle-aged Japanese man. He CARES. He DOES want to know what people think. I'm not supposing Sakurai is asking GameFreak "I'll put in whatever pokemon you say!" He's just asking for their opinions.

What are these 'possibilities' down here anyway. Sakurai actually ASKS about movies? Why would he care about movies in specific? No, I'm pretty sure what's considered is the WHOLE PICTURE, which movies are one major fraction of. Even IF, through some freak accident, Sakurai says, "What movie comes out closes to Brawl?" he's going to end up with that Darkrai/Palkia/Dialga movie. And those three guys are a bit out there for Brawl, don't you think? So he'd have to default to the PREVIOUS MOVIE.

First off, Sakurai WOULD want to hear the opinion of the folks behind Pokemon. Again: Japanese, Middle-aged, respectful. And do you honestly think Sakurai is going to make a choice for the next poke-fighter without considering what Nintendo's marketing department would like? But even in an alternate reality where he does so, Lucario would still at least stand out. Non-Starter, Non-oversized-legendary, (when it comes to scaling a character down 300% or more to fit in Brawl, I think even Sakurai would consider that a bit too much,) bipedal, fighter. He'd stand out, in the very least. But again, even though Smash isn't a game of politics, things like marketing and demand ARE factors.

Well, first off, the good folks at GameFreak or whatever would care about which Pokemon get into Brawl. As Aonuma said, and can you blame them? everyone at Nintendo was very, very psyched to hear about a new Smash game. The developers at GameFreak do care about Brawl, and there are pokemon they would want in the game just because they like said pokemon. Would Lucario be one of them? I have no idea. But Sakurai would also be considering the marketing department, too, because Nintendo is a BUSINESS. Would they sell more DP if a 4th gen is in Brawl? Probably a little more, but nothing significant. Would they sell more Lucario pencils, posters, and plushies if he pops up as a major playable in Brawl? I'm willing to bet so.

Lucario might not necessarily be the biggest, most marketed poke right now. But have you looked at his contenders lately? Every poke who's selling more merchandise is either a huge legendary or Pikachu.

He has hype, whether it's good or bad, and he's widely known among people who: played 75% of the way through Diamond/Pearl, people who saw commercials for his movie, people who saw previews for his movie. Again, not saying OMG MOVIE BRAWL LULZ, I'm saying: the movie was advertised, therefor there are people who have at least seen him before.

Some of Sakurai's personal choices are strong fighters, some take a little more stretch. Being fight-ready, I imagine, does help a little bit. But even if it's irrelevant, there aren't exactly many comparable choices.

And yes, I think everybody here counts, "Having a speaking role, complex, human-like desires and fears, and sympathizable motivation," personality, as opposed to Deoxys' "URGH WHERE FRIEND!?" Let's not have all this crap about, "OMG HE JUST H8S HUMANS IT'S SO DUMB." Fact remains that he DID have a complex set of motivations and goals.

So, if Lucario's just one of the many possibilties from 4th gen, who're the others, anyway? The only ones recieving comparable exposure are humongous legendaries. Have you seen any "Aipom's evolution" threads around here? How high is he on our poll? Does he have any t-shirts, pillows, stationary with his face? How is he real 'contender' for that spot?

He has the most recent movie featuring a pokemon that doesn't suffer any of the fighting flaws of these huge legendaries. Yeah, they make movies every year. And usually they're about huge, all-powerful legendaries without speaking roles. Not that this is the only point of comparison, but remember the last movie that featured a regular-sized pokemon who had many speaking roles and a complex personality? Yeah, that was Mewtwo. He got into Melee. As much as I love the guy, (and he IS very important in the game,) without his films he was just a grumpy escaped lab experiment.

Yes, the movies/anime matter. The only pokemon currently comparable to Lucario in this way is, as you noted, Meowth. One could argue that Smash already has one too many small, cute, good-guy pokemans, which is why Mewtwo took the spot last time.

Yes, personality matters. The playable 'mon we have so far are pretty indicative of that. Pikachu, developed over however many season the freaking show has. Jigglypuff was (maybe still is?) a running joke and a fan-loved character for her KEERAZY mischief. Mewtwo was obviously an entertainingly evil guy with lots of strong motivations. Pichu...well, Pichu was a clone, and, well, Pikachu but cuter.

The part about how Lucario was important in the game was because you said he WASN'T important in the game.

Is there another 4genner that's got more merchandise, more people talking about him being in Brawl, and isn't a humongous legendary that I don't know about? Oh, and one with a role that imbued it with loads of personality and drive? I don't exactly see pocket monsters just flying out of the woodwork on this one.

PS: Worth noting that poll doesn't necessarily mean much just because Lucario isn't on it. It was mostly suggestions that surprised/interested Sakurai. If Lucario wasn't on there, more than likely it just means he was already picked for the game, Sakurai had already found about him and considered him, or that Sakurai's cutting out the 4th gen entirely. Yes, he may not have any 4th gens. Lord knows why, but I'll fess up that it's a remote possibility.

 

[PyrasTerran]

Even IF, through some freak accident, Sakurai says, "What movie comes out closes to Brawl?" he's going to end up with that Darkrai/Palkia/Dialga movie. And those three guys are a bit out there for Brawl, don't you think? So he'd have to default to the PREVIOUS MOVIE.

Which was quite terrible.

But again, even though Smash isn't a game of politics, things like marketing and demand ARE factors.

Part of why Roy was in Melee.

Lucario might not necessarily be the biggest, most marketed poke right now. But have you looked at his contenders lately? Every poke who's selling more merchandise is either a huge legendary or Pikachu.

That's America. Where we were hoping for Mewtwo in Smash Bros. 64, the Japanese crossed their fingers for Jigglypuff.

And yes, I think everybody here counts, "Having a speaking role, complex, human-like desires and fears, and sympathizable motivation," personality, as opposed to Deoxys' "URGH WHERE FRIEND!?" Let's not have all this crap about, "OMG HE JUST H8S HUMANS IT'S SO DUMB." Fact remains that he DID have a complex set of motivations and goals.

Which is part of why people loved Mewtwo so much. So why can't Lucario share it?

Also that kind of complexity is enough to give him a role in the Subspace Emissary if he happens to be part of it. A role that doesn't lead to "help my friends yay" like Pikachu.

He has the most recent movie featuring a pokemon that doesn't suffer any of the fighting flaws of these huge legendaries. Yeah, they make movies every year. And usually they're about huge, all-powerful legendaries without speaking roles. Not that this is the only point of comparison, but remember the last movie that featured a regular-sized pokemon who had many speaking roles and a complex personality? Yeah, that was Mewtwo. He got into Melee. As much as I love the guy, (and he IS very important in the game,) without his films he was just a grumpy escaped lab experiment.

And we wouldn't have known Mewtwo has that deep dark voice if it weren't for the movie. He may not have even HAD a voice.

If I recall, MARTH's voice was played by the very actor from the anime.

One could argue that Smash already has one too many small, cute, good-guy pokemans, which is why Mewtwo took the spot last time.

And if Lucario were in, it'd balance the pokemon out between cute and cool.

If Lucario wasn't on there, more than likely it just means he was already picked for the game, Sakurai had already found about him and considered him, or that Sakurai's cutting out the 4th gen entirely. Yes, he may not have any 4th gens. Lord knows why, but I'll fess up that it's a remote possibility.

Here's hoping that isn't the case. We need just one 4th gen pokeball summon to confirm.....

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

If they even include 4th generation Pokemon, they would also have to add a lot into Pokeballs. The problem is not even half has had a role in the anime by now, so how are they going to get seiyuus or voice actors to do the 4th generation (besides the ones who already appeared)? Now I'm doubting whether a 4th generation will appear; however, it doesn't mean they won't appear.

What kind of background will Lucario have in Subspace Emissary if he even becomes playable? The one in the movie died. I'm going to say a generic Lucario that only says his or her name would not work because it could be ANYONE's Lucario. Even if they made the one from the movie alive again, how are they going to explain how he got out of the staff thing, get trapped after finishing the adventure and forgetting everything that happened? If you say it's after he died, then what story is there to tell for him if he reunited with Aaron in the afterlife? There would be no personal conflict in his story.

Mewtwo on the other hand should return. Canonically, there's only one Mewtwo in the Pokemon universe. In the original Japanese version of the movie, he was a lost soul that felt betrayed by humans, and that was the reason he tried to destroy the world. The English version made him completely evil for no reason whatsoever. Afterwards, he tries to find his own meaning for his existance. I could see that working in Subspace Emissary.

 

[Black/Light]

@ PrinnyFlute

Good goddess. . . .gee gillagers. . .bushy brockos
(How many post are we going to start with some odd phase?)

Anyway, I will reply to that lil. . .essay of yours tonight (I see some interesting things in there but I ain gotz the time to brake it down right now).

And Mewtwo master is right.

 

[Lupo Aro]

What kind of background will Lucario have in Subspace Emissary if he even becomes playable? I'm going to say a generic Lucario that only says his or her name would not work because it could be ANYONE's Lucario.

Same could be said for Pikachu.

 

[PyrasTerran]

'm going to say a generic Lucario that only says his or her name would not work because it could be ANYONE's Lucario.

I don't think anyone SPEAKS in the Subspace Emissary story to begin with.

At any rate, if Lucario IS in, it is likely going to have the personality of the movie one. I think by now, Lucario is not seen as a 'says his own name' monster.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I don't think anyone SPEAKS in the Subspace Emissary story to begin with.

At any rate, if Lucario IS in, it is likely going to have the personality of the movie one. I think by now, Lucario is not seen as a 'says his own name' monster.

You can't really say no one speaks in Subspace Emissary based on one clip. What if Fox could speak? How is Pit supposed to communicate with Palutena in that one cutscene while letting you know what's going on? There could be speaking roles for certain characters, though Mario, Peach, Zelda, and Kirby don't speak much to begin with. Fox does talk a lot to his comrades, so it would just be weird if he didn't talk at all.

Not everyone knows who Lucario is. There are plenty of Smash Bros. players who don't play Pokemon and don't know who he is. Plus, not everyone will look into this thread, see Lucario's name and say, "Oh, who's Lucario? I'm going to check him out."

True, Pikachu could be any generic Pikachu, but Pikachu is known by a lot more people than Lucario. When they think Pikachu, they will probably think of Ash or some other Pokemon trainer. Therefore Pikachu's story wouldn't be finished because he's basically trying to help his trainer become better while learning a lot. That could be applied with Subspace Emissary.

If they use movie Lucario, what kind of personal conflict would he have? The only one he had in the movie was solved in the end after looking into the past and listening to what Aaron has to say before his death. Then he sacrificed himself and is with Aaron in the afterlife. There would be nothing left for him to fulfill because he finally knows why his friend did what he did.

 

[PrinnyFlute]

I imagine there won't be any trainers in the story mode, so it'll be up to them to do what pokemon always do. Protect their friends. Lucario would probably just be very devoted to his 'new friends,' and saving the world.

 

[Legolastom]

Um... the character in smash are not really the characters are they? they are just fighting trophies or whatever... But the thing is that Sakurai can make a story for any character easy i mean WTF would Game and watch have...

Mario: its useless i can't save the world i should give up!
GAW: Beep beep beep
Mario: Yes but where would i find a time machine?

They could just make the Lucario search for his trainer or he felt a disturbance in the aura (Vindaloo) or something like that... its not the characters its your imagination!

 

[Dragon Master Luigi]

I'm going for Lucario due to the fact that most of the playable pokemon were in due to the anime or movies.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Deoxys made more appearances than Lucario in them and yet he was turned into a Pokeball Pokemon. I doubt that will be the main reason for any Pokemon to make it in.

 

[Dragon Master Luigi]

What also affects a Pokemon's chances is also Japanese popularity, Lucario seems to be popular in Japan. I think Lucario will be in Brawl and if not, no other pokemon will be unless they replace Pichu. In Melee, the max amount of characters for a series was 4, they might still keep it that way.
Mario Series: Mario, Peach, Luigi, Bowser
Zelda Series: Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Young Link
Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pichu(needs to be replaced)

 

[Dizzynecro]

R/B/G pokemon everyone can recognize? You mean, like...Pikachu? Or Jigglypuff? Or maybe Mewtwo?

yes and i bet they'll stick to it and add another like charizard or meowth.

 

[kaid]

Lucario is deeply self-disciplined, but capable of expressing emotion. For subspace emissary, any kind of decision that has the smart choice opposed by the moral choice would be a place to start. He also can interact with other characters better than 99% of pokemon, as one of only 4-5 pokemon who exhibit the ability to communicate with humans, giving better dialog.

Personally, I REALLY want to see a FMV sequence of Lucario vs Mewtwo.

 

[PyrasTerran]

f they even include 4th generation Pokemon, they would also have to add a lot into Pokeballs. The problem is not even half has had a role in the anime by now, so how are they going to get seiyuus or voice actors to do the 4th generation (besides the ones who already appeared)? Now I'm doubting whether a 4th generation will appear; however, it doesn't mean they won't appear.

Did you notice that NONE of the legendary pokemon of Melee's pokeball list even made sounds?

You don't need voiceover work for all the pokemon.

Also remember they were able to pack monsters from both generations in Melee, including ALL the legendaries(save Mewtwo who was playable).

What kind of background will Lucario have in Subspace Emissary if he even becomes playable? The one in the movie died. I'm going to say a generic Lucario that only says his or her name would not work because it could be ANYONE's Lucario. Even if they made the one from the movie alive again, how are they going to explain how he got out of the staff thing, get trapped after finishing the adventure and forgetting everything that happened? If you say it's after he died, then what story is there to tell for him if he reunited with Aaron in the afterlife? There would be no personal conflict in his story.

...Honestly, don't you have an imagination?

And why does a new Lucario have to say his own name? Who says that all Lucario don't know how to speak telepathically, hm?

You can't really say no one speaks in Subspace Emissary based on one clip. What if Fox could speak? How is Pit supposed to communicate with Palutena in that one cutscene while letting you know what's going on? There could be speaking roles for certain characters, though Mario, Peach, Zelda, and Kirby don't speak much to begin with. Fox does talk a lot to his comrades, so it would just be weird if he didn't talk at all.

It's been done before in Nintendo games, and the story can still progress just fine. Remember Sakurai said that the cutscenes are the only things that move the story along, and we didn't even hear Mario say something like "what is that" or Zelda say "oh no", or anything.

It's true there's no proof that no one talks in Subspace Emissary but there is NO proof that they DO talk either.

Not everyone knows who Lucario is. There are plenty of Smash Bros. players who don't play Pokemon and don't know who he is. Plus, not everyone will look into this thread, see Lucario's name and say, "Oh, who's Lucario? I'm going to check him out."

God, I HATE this excuse for ANY character. "Oh no one knows this character so it shouldn't be in." What about Marth and Roy, hm? How many people knew who THEY were before Melee? e.e

Therefore Pikachu's story wouldn't be finished because he's basically trying to help his trainer become better while learning a lot. That could be applied with Subspace Emissary.

But it possibly won't seeing as this is a different universe altogether. Pikachu could very well be stand-alone.

If they use movie Lucario, what kind of personal conflict would he have? The only one he had in the movie was solved in the end after looking into the past and listening to what Aaron has to say before his death. Then he sacrificed himself and is with Aaron in the afterlife. There would be nothing left for him to fulfill because he finally knows why his friend did what he did.

..Dude, they're Nintendo, they have the right to make up a new conflict if they feel like it. What would stop them?? And why can't he simply be another aide to save the world?

Deoxys made more appearances than Lucario in them and yet he was turned into a Pokeball Pokemon. I doubt that will be the main reason for any Pokemon to make it in.

You can't say that Mewtwo's entrance in Melee was not at all assisted by his movie's popularity.

 

[MageNinja]

Take a pro(in critisism)'s advice!

Lucario - Influecial. Might make it.
Blaziken -Same as Lucario
Deoxys -Already comes out of a PokeballCheck this out!
Meowth -Comes out of Pokeball
Dragonite -Too big to be a playable
Charizard -Same as Dragonite
Scizor -Can make it. Chances are so narrow, though.
Hitmonlee -Comes out of Pokeball
Hitmonchan -Unless he can use his legs, he has 0 chance
Cubone / Marowak -Perhaps as to appear in a Pokeball
Sandshrew / Sandslash -Like Cubone
Pichu Bros. / Plusle and Minun -Possible. But people might think of them as Ice Climbers clones
Eevee and evolutions -a big and bold NO!
Gengar - Also no!

As for others in the list but not in here, they already get a T-D from me!

Wynaut may make the cut! I already made a movelist

Special: Psyshock: Covers Wynaut in a fairly wide psychic energy. Passive damage.

Up Special: Baton Pass: Transforms into a spinning baton. You can control where Wynaut will be placed. Deactivates after a while or at hit.

Down Special: Counter: Like FE characters' Counter

Forward Special: Psychic: Like Mewtwo's Confusion except damage only

Well that's it.

 

[Dizzynecro]

Take a pro(in critisism)'s advice!

Lucario - Influecial. Might make it.
Blaziken -Same as Lucario
Deoxys -Already comes out of a PokeballCheck this out!
Meowth -Comes out of Pokeball
Dragonite -Too big to be a playable
Charizard -Same as Dragonite
Scizor -Can make it. Chances are so narrow, though.
Hitmonlee -Comes out of Pokeball
Hitmonchan -Unless he can use his legs, he has 0 chance
Cubone / Marowak -Perhaps as to appear in a Pokeball
Sandshrew / Sandslash -Like Cubone
Pichu Bros. / Plusle and Minun -Possible. But people might think of them as Ice Climbers clones
Eevee and evolutions -a big and bold NO!
Gengar - Also no!

As for others in the list but not in here, they already get a T-D from me!

Wynaut may make the cut! I already made a movelist

Special: Psyshock: Covers Wynaut in a fairly wide psychic energy. Passive damage.

Up Special: Baton Pass: Transforms into a spinning baton. You can control where Wynaut will be placed. Deactivates after a while or at hit.

Down Special: Counter: Like FE characters' Counter

Forward Special: Psychic: Like Mewtwo's Confusion except damage only

Well that's it.

dragonite and charizard could be sized down to bowser size easily.
and who says all those pokemon are still pokeballs?
also no with no explanation isn't very convincing... evee could be very interesting if it could change forms like zelda/sheik.

 

[Tony_]

and i say you are wrong.

How am I wrong? All the updates regarding Pokemon have been either 1st gen or 3rd gen. We aren't getting any 4th generation pokemon in Brawl. Blaziken as a playable to represent the third generation yeah.

I realize that popularity in JP and in the US matters, but it really doesn't when a game is in development when a potential character is announced, while the game is in development.

4th Gen have a little chance of appearing at all.

 

[Lupo Aro]

How am I wrong? All the updates regarding Pokemon have been either 1st gen or 3rd gen. We aren't getting any 4th generation pokemon in Brawl.

Have you considered the possibility that they haven't bothered to put up a 4th gen Pokeball Pokemon yet?

 

[Black/Light]

Lucario is deeply self-disciplined, but capable of expressing emotion. For subspace emissary, any kind of decision that has the smart choice opposed by the moral choice would be a place to start. He also can interact with other characters better than 99% of pokemon, as one of only 4-5 pokemon who exhibit the ability to communicate with humans, giving better dialog.

Personally, I REALLY want to see a FMV sequence of Lucario vs Mewtwo.

That was ONE Lucario from ONE movie. . . who died.
(I can't wait to see Lucario get that a** beat by Ash in his next Gym battle)

How does this rep ALL Lucario's? This was never said in the games and Normal Lucario's can communicate about crap to humans about as much as Aipom. . . (proply less because Aipom is a primate. A 9Tails would be a better example).

 

[Bowser King]

i say blazieken should be in

 

[Earthbenderjump5]

wow, this thread has been going on forever, about the same pokemon, someone should put a new one on that list

 

[kaid]

That was ONE Lucario from ONE movie. . . who died.
(I can't wait to see Lucario get that a** beat by Ash in his next Gym battle)

How does this rep ALL Lucario's? This was never said in the games and Normal Lucario's can communicate about crap to humans about as much as Aipom. . . (proply less because Aipom is a primate. A 9Tails would be a better example).

How does Jiggs rep ALL jiggs, and still be interesting in a story mode? If Jiggs returns, she will be the same comic relief that she was in the episodes she was in.

And Lucario's Dex description says differently, at least in one direction.

And are you saying just cause a character dies, it shouldn't be in the game? Because I have a pack of Ridley supporters who say otherwise...


The setting of smash is a world of trophies, which ARE merchandise. The most merchandiseable form of every character is therefore used, including the source personality, even if the reason for it doesn't exist. (So, If Cloud Strife got into brawl, he'd be emo and depressed, even though Tifa and Aerith never existed)

 

[jose]

yo....i think blaziken cuz its a whole lot better than lucario....

 

[Black/Light]

How does Jiggs rep ALL jiggs, and still be interesting in a story mode? (???QUE??? When did Jpuff get confirmed? And what are you talking about? Jpuff can be just some random Jpuff like she was in Melee. . .) If Jiggs returns, she will be the same comic relief that she was in the episodes she was in. (Proof? When the hell did Jpuff bust out her mic in Melee? Thats a random Jpuff. . . .and a random Pika. . . and a random Yoshi. . . and a random w/epokemon that gets in that aint the only one of it's kind. If Jpuff is comical it's because it does something funny. . .NOT because "thats how it is in the show".)

And Lucario's Dex description says differently, at least in one direction. (??Que? It can understand human talk. . . never said it talks (and all pokemon understand people to some level))

And are you saying just cause a character dies, it shouldn't be in the game? Because I have a pack of Ridley supporters who say otherwise...
(. . . .Im saying that a movie pokemon that died in said movie would make no sense to come back in the form of a random Lucario that can talk. If Lucario is in it's going to be random like Pika, Jpuff and Yosh (But OMZ, the Yosh in smash might just be the same one from the movie. . . .)


The setting of smash is a world of trophies, which ARE merchandise. (. . .What are you talking about?) The most merchandiseable form of every character is therefore used, including the source personality, even if the reason for it doesn't exist. (So, If Cloud Strife got into brawl, he'd be emo and depressed, even though Tifa and Aerith never existed (He would be "emo" Because thats how he is in the GAME. . .IF thats how he was in the game. If thats just some movie Cloud than no, he aint going to be that way.))

Really Kaid, you have fallen too fare into that Lucario fan-fic your thread became.
(I will reply to Prin.F today, Im at school now)

 

[kaid]

I think Mewtwo pretty conclucively shows that, when taking from a movie/anime is more interesting than from the games, he doesn't reallt care what gets contradicted. Half of Mewtwo's smash moves CAN'T be learned by him in game and his voice definately implies his evil anime self was to blame.

The Movie Lucario has a humanlike personality and sympathetic emotions, connecting with the audience better than pika ever did. (Pika, after all, was always just "Ash's buddy." ASH was supposed to be the sympathetic character.) As such, I feel Lucario would get the same makover as Mewtwo, being inspired more by the anime than the games.

 

[PyrasTerran]

. . .What are you talking about?)

He's talking about the world of Smash Bros. which consists of trophies. Does he have to repeat himself??

(He would be "emo" Because thats how he is in the GAME. . .IF thats how he was in the game. If thats just some movie Cloud than no, he aint going to be that way.))

Dude, none of the pokemon have personalities in the games. Mewtwo didn't get his personality from the games, he got it from the movies.

(???QUE??? When did Jpuff get confirmed?

What, you honestly think Jigglypuff isn't going to make it? Stop throwing red herrings.

That was ONE Lucario from ONE movie. . . who died.
(I can't wait to see Lucario get that a** beat by Ash in his next Gym battle)

How does this rep ALL Lucario's? This was never said in the games and Normal Lucario's can communicate about crap to humans about as much as Aipom. . . (proply less because Aipom is a primate. A 9Tails would be a better example).

Dude, how did that ONE Lucario talk then, hm? Why don't you explain that part to me?

STRAIGHT FROM THE GAME:
"It has the ability to sense the auras of all things. It understands human speech. By catching the aura emanating from others, it can read their thoughts and movements."

The Lucario from the movie shares these exact same traits, so what is this arguement about the Lucario ingame not being representative of the only Lucario we've seen on screen thus far?

. . . .Im saying that a movie pokemon that died in said movie would make no sense to come back in the form of a random Lucario that can talk. If Lucario is in it's going to be random like Pika, Jpuff and Yosh (But OMZ, the Yosh in smash might just be the same one from the movie. . . .

How do you know that the pikachu, jigglypuff and Yoshi from Melee are random species?

Show me the proof.

 

[Earthbenderjump5]

Yeah, Lucario should be in, most deffinately, but i really want to see a water pokemon, we've seen almost everything ecept water and grass or a grass yes grass more then water i hope

 

[MageNinja]

dragonite and charizard could be sized down to bowser size easily.
and who says all those pokemon are still pokeballs?
also no with no explanation isn't very convincing... evee could be very interesting if it could change forms like zelda/sheik.

Sorry to burst your bubble but it is confirmed(well most of it). Go click here and I'll prove to you that your precious Deoxys is a Pokeball-only character.

Besides, Charizard appered in a pokeball way before Melee, and nobody wants any Bowser clones(since that will be the only logical reason for them being playable).

 

[chansen]

Besides, Charizard appered in a pokeball way before Melee, and nobody wants any Bowser clones(since that will be the only logical reason for them being playable).

I doubt gimpyfish would appreciate that, or any bowser player for that matter. And Charizard would never make it over Blastoise in terms of playable characters, and Blastoise would be even easier to make into a clone of bowser. Anyway clones have been done away with so this can't possibly make sense.


Blastoise FTW!

 

[Lupo Aro]

Dude, none of the pokemon have personalities in the games. Mewtwo didn't get his personality from the games, he got it from the movies.

Dude, how did that ONE Lucario talk then, hm? Why don't you explain that part to me?

Yeah they do. Modest, Adamant etc. XP

Lucario didn't talk, he used telepathy. But nonetheless, I would think that other Lucarios could use it as well.

 

[Black/Light]

I think Mewtwo pretty conclucively shows that, when taking from a movie/anime is more interesting than from the games, he doesn't reallt care what gets contradicted. Half of Mewtwo's smash moves CAN'T be learned by him in game and his voice definately implies his evil anime self was to blame. (But Mew2 was a bad guy IN the games too and was able to talk with the power of his mind IN the games as well)

The Movie Lucario has a humanlike personality and sympathetic emotions, connecting with the audience better than pika ever did. (Pika, after all, was always just "Ash's buddy." ASH was supposed to be the sympathetic character. As such, I feel Lucario would get the same makover as Mewtwo, being inspired more by the anime than the games.

WTH are you talking about? Better than Pika ever did (you really need to jump off the Lucario cloud. . . .your getting to high)? Pika has whole short movies and fullers where he doesn't speak a word but gets the point across just fine. And even in the movies you can see Pika "connect" with the veiwer on many different levels. Just look at Mewtwo strikes back. Half the kiddys there were crying when Pika chose to stopped fighting his clone (clone kept slipping the dog mess out of him before it broke down and cried too ) and when he did his non-stop thunder bolts to wake Ash up you felt truely sorry for Pika and even ash (after Mew and Mew2 killed him). He aint just "Ash buddy", he is a main character and very much the most "connected" pokemon to the viewer.

And Mew2, again, was a villian in the GAME. If anything thats just what everyone sees Mew2 as when looking at him from that stand point. Sure, Mew2 has attacks that aint in the game. . . soo does the other pokemon.

Also, again. . . .Theres only ONE Mew2. If that one Mew2 is seen as a baddy in game and out of game than guess what? It's a villian.

He's talking about the world of Smash Bros. which consists of trophies. Does he have to repeat himself??

So you mean to tell me that these trophies are actually products we can buy from the store which merits having a crap load of pokemon be "just like they are in the anime"? THAT was my point. . .

Dude, none of the pokemon have personalities in the games. Mewtwo didn't get his personality from the games, he got it from the movies.

1.All pokemon have personalities in the game. (Jolly, Docile etc)
2. Mewtwo is a villian IN tha games. It's the only real pokemon villian.

What, you honestly think Jigglypuff isn't going to make it? Stop throwing red herrings.

I KNOW theres a chance Jpuff wont come back, never said she wasn't coming back as a fact. So stop focusing on lil s***

Dude, how did that ONE Lucario talk then, hm? Why don't you explain that part to me?

Over YEARS and YEARS of training with that ONE master of arue (Sir Arron).
And in the anime any pokemon can "talk" if you use Meowth as a example (he did it all on his own).
But this aint the anime "beat-him-up super fun time" game so if a Meowth/ Lucario got in than they would (you guessed it) say their names and be random members of their breed.

We are BOND to see 2 more anime Lucario's. One in Ash's next gym battle and one with the champ. Are they going to talk? Lets wait and see. . .

STRAIGHT FROM THE GAME:
"It has the ability to sense the auras of all things. It understands human speech. By catching the aura emanating from others, it can read their thoughts and movements."

The Lucario from the movie shares these exact same traits, so what is this arguement about the Lucario ingame not being representative of the only Lucario we've seen on screen thus far?

Theres a difference between "Movie Lucario" being in the game and just some random Lucario. One is the persona and another is talking for example.

What he is saying is that Lucario will be based on the movie one (As in, talk and have the same back story) which aint true.

How do you know that the pikachu, jigglypuff and Yoshi from Melee are random species?

Show me the proof.

Jpuff- the anime Jpuff that kept singing people to sleep has a mic. This one doesn't.
Pika/ Yoshi- In their games they are only members of a whole breed. There are (as was seen in the melee opening trailer) 1000s of Yoshi's just as there are with Pika.

Sorry Prin.F, got a crap load of work to do and now this topic came up. . .
(I will reply to you some time soon)

 

[Lupo Aro]

WTH are you talking about? Better than Pika ever did (you really need to jump off the Lucario cloud. . . .your getting to high)? Pika has whole short movies and fullers where he does speak a word but get the point across just fight. And even in the movies you can see Pika "connect" with the veiwer on many different levels. Just look at Mewtwo strikes back. Half the kiddys there were crying when Pika chose to stopped fighting his clone (clone kept slipping the dog mess out of him ) What makes you think, from personal experience, that EVERY kid who saw the movie cried at EVERY theater?and when he did his non-stop thunder bolts to wake Ash up (after Mew and Mew2 killed him). He aint just "Ash buddy", he is a main character and very much so the most "connected" pokemon to the viewer.

And Mew2, again, was a villian in the GAME. If anything thats just what everyone sees Mew2 as when looking at him from that stand point. Sure, Mew2 has attacks that aint in the game. . . soo does the other pokemon.Uh, what? Mewtwo was just a grumpy lab experiment in the games.

And again. . . .Theres only ONE Mew2. if that one Mew2 is seen as a baddy in game and out of game than guess what? It's a villian. See above.

So you mean to tell me that these trophies are actually products we can buy from the store which merits having a crap load of pokemon be "just like they are in the anime"? THAT was my point. . .

1.All pokemon have personalities in the game. (Jolly, Docile etc)
2. Mewtwo is a villian IN tha games. It's the only real pokemon villian. Again, see above.

I KNOW theres a chance Jpuff wont come back, never said she wasn't coming back as a fact. So stop focusing on lil s***

Over YEARS and YEARS of training with that ONE master of arue (Sir Arron).
And in the anime any pokemon can "talk" if you use Meowth as a example (he did it all on his own).
But this aint the anime "beat-him-up super fun time" game so if a Meowth/ Lucario got in than they would (you guessed it) say their names and be random members of their breed. Meh, little nitpick here. I doubt Lucario would say it's name, just make grunts/growls/etc. like some other Pokemon.

We are BOND to see 2 more anime Lucario's. One in Ash's next gym battle and one with the champ. Are they going to talk? Lets wait and see. . .

Theres a difference between "Movie Lucario" being in the game and just some random Lucario. One is the persona and another is talking for example.

What he is saying is that Lucario will be based on the movie one (As in, talk and have the same back story) which aint true.


Jpuff- the anime Jpuff that kept singing people to sleep has a mic. This one does. Where the hell does Jiggs have a mic in the Smash games?
Pika/ Yoshi- In their games they are only members of a whole breed. There are (as was seen in the melee opening trailer) 1000s of Yoshi's just as there are with Pika. Yet Jiggs/Lucario can't be the same way?

Sorry Prin.F, got a crap load of work to do and now this topic came up. . .
(I will reply to you some time soon)

Cursed 10charlimit...

 

[Black/Light]

Cursed 10charlimit...

"What makes you think, from personal experience, that EVERY kid who saw the movie cried at EVERY theater?"
I was talking about the one I was in.

"Uh, what? Mewtwo was just a grumpy lab experiment in the games."
Cinnabar Mansion diaries in R/B show that Mewtwo blow up a mansion full of researchers who were "never seen again" before he went to the cave you can fight him at. Doesn't take being smarter than a 5th grader to know that he just mass murdered a mansion full of researchers which is about as villian-ish Pokemon ever goes.

"Where the hell does Jiggs have a mic in the Smash games?"
Typo.

"Yet Jiggs/Lucario can't be the same way?"
THAT WAS MY POINT. That Jpuff is a random Jpuff and that Lucario would be a random Lucario as well so this talk about of he is going to be the movie Lucario aint true.

 

[RWB]

I foolishly hope for Gardevoir.

 

[Fawriel]

I foolishly hope for Gardevoir.

Best post in a long time.
You make your land proud, son! *salutes with a tear running down his cheek*