Playing Ganondorf in Brawl+ and How to Continue Murdering People

[lord karn]

Ganon does terrible vs. ROB.

Yoshi, does well, though.

 

[kciD]

Yea I usually end up picking Falco vs ROB cuz falco's lasers are faster. Yoshi isn't bad, either, I can kinda stay close with him. Though with Ganon choke>wiz truck works well.

 

[lord karn]

With yoshi you want to abuse the fact that your grab beats a lot of rob's options.

But with ganon your going to have a hard time ever getting close to ROB unless you can powershield all his projectiles.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Does anyone else think that Ganon does well vs Snake? I'm having the hardest time beating my friend's Ganon with Snake now. He shield grabs everything, which feels weird because Ganon's grab has always felt super tiny, and he easily Dthrows me off ledges. And, once I'm Dthrown off a ledge, I jump and Up-B, usually getting within the range for him to grab my cypher, and therefore lose.

Whenever I pull out a grenade and shield when he attacks, it almost never explodes on him. His attacks always seem to just hit my shield, or shield stab. It's obnoxious, because I have a hard time getting around it.

And with Snake's slow aerial mobility, I can get Uair'd easily out of most anything I can do. That, or Ganon's Uair is fast enough to beat Snake before he attempts an attack.

Lastly, hitting Ganon with Snake's Ftilt is hard. He can jab/FtiltDtilt me out of it when I'm in range to hit him at all.

Advice? I might just need to be more defensive, but I play to RTSD in Smash. ='[

 

[Andarel]

You know, I may be wrong but I could have sworn Cypher grabbing returns your jump in B+. Not that it'll save you from dair, but...hm.

Ganon will **** you in the air, so stay grounded as much as possible. Utilt stuffs a lot of Ganon's fh tricks but won't help you as much against sh approaches, but it's a matchup I'm not that experienced with.

 

[highfive]

New to Brawl+. Maining Ganon, Wolf and Wario now. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[lord karn]

Does anyone else think that Ganon does well vs Snake? I'm having the hardest time beating my friend's Ganon with Snake now. He shield grabs everything, which feels weird because Ganon's grab has always felt super tiny, and he easily Dthrows me off ledges. And, once I'm Dthrown off a ledge, I jump and Up-B, usually getting within the range for him to grab my cypher, and therefore lose.

Whenever I pull out a grenade and shield when he attacks, it almost never explodes on him. His attacks always seem to just hit my shield, or shield stab. It's obnoxious, because I have a hard time getting around it.

And with Snake's slow aerial mobility, I can get Uair'd easily out of most anything I can do. That, or Ganon's Uair is fast enough to beat Snake before he attempts an attack.

Lastly, hitting Ganon with Snake's Ftilt is hard. He can jab/FtiltDtilt me out of it when I'm in range to hit him at all.

Advice? I might just need to be more defensive, but I play to RTSD in Smash. ='[

I think snake is one of ganon's best matches. Fair outspaces pretty much all of snakes stuff. That makes it really hard. Juggling and edgeguarding him is also pretty easy.

All snake has in the matchup is grenades and dacus. Well-timed jab, among other things, can beat the dacus. So the snake pretty much has to keep ganon away with grenades and c4s.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

So what do you guys think about ganon's jab? I kinda feel like its a bit too much for the jab to be able to kill since it comes out so fast. I'm not really pushing for the change, I just think it should be discussed.

 

[lord karn]

Ganon's jab is obviously one of his best moves. It's kind of important for him to have it as a gtfo move. But a good player will just space around it. The main reason it's really important is in pressure. It helps ganon pressure shields, a lot. Against good opponents, it's really hard to close with ganon because the fair isn't nearly as good of an approach at high level play. Ganon needs to be able to mess up people who go into shield.

Also, it doesn't really kill if the opponent DIs right unless they're like right on the ledge.

 

[highfive]

I feel his jab is actually very efficient. I may have no room to talk here but I feel like it's a decent set up for combo mini-strings like Dthrow > jab > Gerudo Dragon > Fair or a spike with Gerudo Dragon depending on the situation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[lord karn]

From what I can tell, jab rarely combos into anything if they DI down and away. It usually makes them hit the ground, which could lead to a tech chase.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I agree that its a very useful move, but I don't think that legitimizes the fact that you can kill people with it. For being such a fast move with decent range, at least for a jab, it doesn't need the ability to force people in situation where that if they don't di right, they might die. Now of course the percentage that this happens at isn't too exterme, they have to be in the 100% to 150% range for it work, and because of this I don't necessarily think that its a broken move, just a bit silly that it kill. It can still be just as useful at shield pressure and as a gtfo move if this was fixed, by giving it a fixed knockback maybe or just less knockback at those high percents. So that is my two cents on the matter, thoughts?

 

[leafgreen386]

I agree that its a very useful move, but I don't think that legitimizes the fact that you can kill people with it. For being such a fast move with decent range, at least for a jab, it doesn't need the ability to force people in situation where that if they don't di right, they might die. Now of course the percentage that this happens at isn't too exterme, they have to be in the 100% to 150% range for it work, and because of this I don't necessarily think that its a broken move, just a bit silly that it kill. It can still be just as useful at shield pressure and as a gtfo move if this was fixed, by giving it a fixed knockback maybe or just less knockback at those high percents. So that is my two cents on the matter, thoughts?

The solution is simple: Don't mess up your DI. The truth is you should be dead long before jab starts killing with good DI.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Yeah...you've got a point, but I still find it a bit silly lol. Oh well, its not like it happens that much for it to matter.

 

[highfive]

Awww... Custom Avis FTL.

And pretty much what leafgreen said.

So.... what's your favorite way to kill an opponent with Ganon?

 

[kciD]

One time I did a short hop down+B on the ledge just as my opponent was trying to recover...and somehow it hit him just before he grabbed the ledge and spiked him.

For some reason, I love killing with Dair while they're on the stage, sending them directly up. Of course, I don't go for that kill much unless their percent gets too high...which doesn't happen often with Ganon.

 

[leafgreen386]

Eh... either FJ DJ fair while they're recovering high or techchase -> wiztruck. Ganon has so many moves that are just so satisfying to land, though. It's like having falcon's knee... ON EVERYTHING.

 

[Plum]

I'm a man of simple tastes and have always preferred double/tripple reverse Uairs offstage to death.

 

[ZeonStar]

I really gain a great satisfaction from suicide murdering my opponents with side b, I try to do it even when im not sure if itll work, I just have to take them to hell. Downair combos into techchasing is so much fun, and Downair into upb at the top of the stage is SO satisfying. It feels really good to do redonkulous stuff with gannypoo+

 

[SmashBrosForce]

Holy F**** Zeon. Your Ganon+ is still pretty solid. Keep it up dude and put new videos.

Zeon's Ganon *****.

Nuff Said.

 

[ZeonStar]

Holy F**** Zeon. Your Ganon+ is still pretty solid. Keep it up dude and put new videos.

Zeon's Ganon *****.

Nuff Said.

Hopefully if I get the motivation to, ill record more tournament matches and put them up. I just havent found the time though.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Zeon's ganon sucks.

Fo real.

 

[ZeonStar]

Lets talk about 7.0 ganon, anyone see any changes? I havent so far.

 

[Revven]

His Fair angle was changed to 35º from the previous Sakurai angle so it now (should) kill earlier and no longer trips people at non-tumble percents.

 

[ZeonStar]

I have never been sure of this, but does ganons upthrow gaurantee a upair? I dont think DI really matters, as if you DI behind, he gets a bair. Lets get some discussion on his upthrow, since ive completely converted to offline, and am now noticing this.

 

[God of Humility]

Is it just me, or does his dtaunt let him keep his sword. Sword moves are jab, ftilt and fsmash. I downloaded the pacs seperatly without the autoupdater.

 

[lord karn]

Ganon's uthrow should combo into uair. Doesn't work on really floaty characters at all percents, though. I generally uthrow uair unless I am almost certain of what direction they would tech from the dthrow.

As for the sword thing, yeroc told me it wasn't set to be official. We were talking about how it doesn't actually make ganon any better (because his normal jab is just way better than any of the moves he gets from the sword), so maybe he decided to put it in the final build.

 

[goodoldganon]

If sword ganon went through that's cool and all but as Karn said, Sword Ganon is worse then without the sword. His F-smash had stupid good range but he loses out on one of his best moves (jab) and Dash attack is still a somewhat reliable KO move without the sword. I'm interested to see if it is still in, I didn't play any Ganon last night

 

[Andarel]

Wait, what? Sword ganon made it in?

That's silly.

 

[ZeonStar]

Oh my gosh, really? Thats hilarious. Gonna work on strats right now LOL.

 

[eisley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdoHHK27RMM


sword ganon?!? omg I am sooo writing so much hate mail tonite!!!

 

[Shell]

My advice would be to not troll.

If the sword option is, in fact, staying I'll be really interested to see how it's worked into certain parts of various matchups. Gogogo ganomains.

 

[goodoldganon]

Sword Ganon is totally worse then regular Ganon is every way. I can't see how the slight range/arc to his f-smash will really make a difference in any matchup problems he had before. Let's look at this move by move.

Jab- Clearly loses out with the sword. It is not as fast, doesn't send at the same angle, and has poor shield pressure. I'd argue this alone warrants Sword Ganon in for the ****** factor. No buff is more important to Ganon then the improved jab. That jab is his saving grace in Brawl+

F-tilt - You lose the hilariously situational kill from the SPARTA kick for an awkward sword attack. I really don't know what to say. Both moves are still pretty mediocre. This move at least changes from a kill to mildly ok ranged poke.

Dash attack- Dash attack was always (at least for me) a somewhat decent last ditch KO move. It comes out fast with buffering, has solid priority, and decent knockback. The new dash attack doesn't seem to go as far as the beam sword dash this whole fiasco is clearly modeled after. He kinda just dies and the push back is laughable. I venture it might be one of the most unsafe moves on shield.

F-smash - A low damage (12%), average speed ranged poke with a decent arc. I am curious to see how it fairs as an anti-air attack. He can't stutter-step it for extra range like he could before, but he doesn't need it. He won't KO with it.

Overall Ganondorf loses his best move for a TERRIBLE replacement and he also loses a pretty solid dash attack. The F-tilt is an even trade, speed for power and F-smash can be debated as a buff or not. Stutter stepped F-smash was reliable out of the murder choke as a KO tactic so he loses that but if my prediction is correct he gains a pretty ok anti-air. Personally I hope sword Ganon stays in. It is totally cool even if totally useless. It helps distinguish Ganondorf as a non-clone, gives Brawl+ a cool little easter egg, and for what it is worth adds a slight layer of depth to a completely balanced character. I let the WBR chose, but I hope they air on the side of awesome and fun for this one.

 

[Veril]

Sword Ganon obviously is a joke. The sword is pretty useless but also incredibly cool.

It functions as a taunt basically. If you want to sandbag...

 

[goodoldganon]

Hooray, I'm glad it got in. Totally awesome. Anyway, I finish grad applications and other things this weekend. Hopefully I can update the guide next weekend. I'd do it this weekend but Easter and all

 

[JCaesar]

Wait, is it the normal beam sword item? If so, even if his sword attacks suck, he just gained a projectile. Or is it some other weird sword thing that he can't throw?

Veril, when you say Sword Ganon is obviously a joke, do you mean it's not supposed to be part of the set?

 

[Alphatron]

^Is Ganon so unpopular that you don't even remember his dtaunt? D=

 

[goodoldganon]

Haha Jceaz when Ganon D-taunt he pulls out his Sword of the Sages from Twilight Princess. The animations of the attacks are clearly taken from the beam sword, though it seems their range was reduced to actually fit the size of the Sword of the Sages unlike the previous code. Ganon can not throw the sword and he respawns with it on death IF HE DIED WITH IT. D-taunt triggers sword and regular Ganon. He keeps the sword after the first taunt and puts it away on the second. I think that should answer any questions.

 

[JCaesar]

Of course I know what his dtaunt does. I'm just wondering what happens after it now.

ooooooook, so it's not the item sword. That is useless then.

 

[Mattnumbers]

It's the new Pichu.

Every fighting game needs a joke character.