Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[hiROI]

Uncle Peach got the **** down for Peach Dittos

 

[JigglyZelda003]

at least peach dittos are kinda fun, Zeldas on the other hand fail at entertainment.....unless your on Yoshis that is

 

[Meru.]

Peach Dittos are really fun. :D

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Peach dittos are great until you find you can't land a kill move due to the intense amount of spacing

It's all about punishing, OoS attacking, countering aerials with ground moves and countering ground moves with clever air moves and manipulation

 

[IxxI]

Peach dittos.
Don't approach with a float>dair.
Good peaches will simply throw a turnip.
:D

 

[AvoiD]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240472

Falcos rediscussing Peach mu. Input appreciated.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I think some of these could do with rediscussions. For example, for Zelda it says 55:45 for us, yet the Zelda boards seem to disagree and say it's mroe like 60:$0 or even 65:35 for us. Also, others that would be nice to rediscuss: Falco, DK, ZSS (those matchups are NOT 50:50).

 

[Battletanx_Commander]

I think some of these could do with rediscussions. For example, for Zelda it says 55:45 for us, yet the Zelda boards seem to disagree and say it's mroe like 60:$0 or even 65:35 for us. Also, others that would be nice to rediscuss: Falco, DK, ZSS (those matchups are NOT 50:50).

Actually, I think that the DK and ZSS match-ups are 50:50 from personal experience.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I think some of these could do with rediscussions. For example, for Zelda it says 55:45 for us, yet the Zelda boards seem to disagree and say it's mroe like 60:$0 or even 65:35 for us. Also, others that would be nice to rediscuss: Falco, DK, ZSS (those matchups are NOT 50:50).

Yes they are even. Where are you getting this stuff?

 

[mountain_tiger]

Yes they are even. Where are you getting this stuff?

Here's how I see them:

Falco: 45:55 - Lasers really hurt our floating in this matchup. If you gt hit by his Dair meteor smash, it's almost certan death due to our poor vertical recovery. His Nair and Fair **** our airdodge, and he kills us early as well. On the plus side, at least he can't chaingrab us, while we can chaingrab him...

Donkey Kong: 45:55 - He's a bit like the D3 matchup, except he doesn't have the chaingrab, and also Donkey Kong has more power and meteor smashes to make up for it. He kills us at around 90% on average; we kill him at around 150% on average. His Bair outranges most of our moves, and his range is overall better. Our turnips do help a lot, though, and stop this matchup being even worse.

ZSS: 40:60 - I have no idea how Peach is supposed to get around her. She outranges us bad, both in the air and on the ground, and as for Uair, if you airdodge it, she can Uair again due to its low lag, and it'll hit us during the airdodge lag. Paralyser shots mess with out floating, and a fresh Bair or Plasma Whip from her kills us at around 110%. And contrary to popualr belief she isn't easy to gimp if the opponent is good.

 

[slikvik]

Peach does not kill DK 150% on average. It's definitely higher, fresh fair or not. Anyway I also don't think it's even and in DKs favor. I'll simplify my reasoning and just say DK has a lot more room for error than peach

 

[mountain_tiger]

Peach does not kill DK 150% on average. It's definitely higher, fresh fair or not. Anyway I also don't think it's even and in DKs favor. I'll simplify my reasoning and just say DK has a lot more room for error than peach

Well, quite a lot of the time that's the case. Rarely, you can kill him at 110% with a USmash (since he's a huge target), but that isn't all that common. Most of the time, it'll be higher than 150%, as you said.

Oh, and also, personally I think that Snake should be 35:65, and MK 40:60. Snake seems way harder to get around for me...

 

[Morrigan]

Tiger get ready to get a huge wall of text on Falco's match-up.

 

[Praxis]

Falco is 60:40 Falco, DK is even or 55:45 Peach, ZSS I have no idea.

I want to rediscuss Wario, I'm convinced Peach 60:40's him. I learned the proper strategy from Edrees and proceeded to destroy all of the top Wario's on the WC at Genesis...I beat Futile and DMG in MM's (three stocking DMG) and then beat Fiction in friendlies, he refused to MM me and said he'd go MK before fighting a Peach after playing Edrees.

 

[slikvik]

I only think peach would have the advantage on FD. Otherwise I think it's even. Discuss away. I'd like to hear if Edreeses strategy is any different from my own

 

[gantrain05]

yeah, imo peach can wreck wario pretty hard, she easily outprioritizes him arially, better ground game, and doesn't have too hard of a time getting grabs compared to alot of other chars.

glide toss turnip > grab release > Usmash = GG.

 

[slikvik]

Your not gonna get the grab often against a good wario that knows the match-up. Wario is also faster in the air with an airdodge that last twice as long as peachs. He also has the waft. If he covers peach's poor defensive options in the air, she's dead.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I agree that the match is in Peach's favour, but only very slightly. 55:45 for Peach seems right.

 

[Praxis]

Peach needs to know the matchup. She can do a tooooon of gay crap to Wario that most Peach's simply don't know. Edrees developed the strategy, I expanded on it, I don't know if anyone else does it right.

1) Peach's bair counters Wario. You can bair camp the entire match and he simply cannot touch you. Worked on Fiction, Futile, DMG, and Pwneroni. It outprioritizes everything he does and you simply have to learn the spacing for each of his approaches. Get a lead and bair camp.

If he covers peach's poor defensive options in the air, she's dead.

Peach's bair completely removes her poor defensive options. They literally beat anything he can do barring a bite or a fart, and you can punish a missed bite pretty hard or second jump over it and fall with the bair.

2) If he has a lead and aircamps, you can force airdodges by upwards glide tossed turnips then chase the airdodge with aerials.

3) Grab setups abound. Peach can force him to airdodge aerials and autocancel stuff and grab him out of his airdodge, or bait, or toss turnips around. Wario is freaking hard to grab (I watched Fiction vs Lain lol) but Peach is honestly the best character at landing the grab in the game when you get a hold of it.


Oh yeah, I was trolling the Wario boards earlier, that was fun xD But I seriously believe it is 60:40.

And, you can utilt Wario out of grab release and it'll hit him even if there's a platform. And you can grab release him to double hit float nair for 23%....XD

 

[slikvik]

Hmm...I don't see how retreating bairs can completely shut him down. Its safe(although I don't think it's as safe as you make it out to be due to powershielding), but you eventually run out of room. Remember I play G&W so i know all about bairs lol.

I might be one of the few warios that can actually do the match-up since I can play both chars at a high level..shrug. I'm not convinced the other warios understand how to approach the match-up

I agree with 2 and 3. Peachs grab game is ridiculous. If I'm fighting against a peach in tourney with wario. At kill percents I'll make sure if im grabbed I'll release above a platform. I won't put myself at risk anywhere else. FD will probably be banned and smashville striked

 

[DMG]

Peach vs Wario is 60:40 Peach. I'm not gonna get into an argument with the Wario guys, but cmon all the top Wario players aside from PX say it's 60:40. Praxis isn't kidding with Bair, it is a FRAME TRAP. I've looked at it in game, on paper, applied into real matches, and it works. It's the same thing as Marth Fairing really close to the ground. If you don't airdodge he hits you, if you do he has enough time to grab you.

Peach's time to react to Wario's approach from that situation is too wide of a margin for Wario to be able to even half successfully out predict her in the near term.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Here's how I see them:

Falco: 45:55 - Lasers really hurt our floating in this matchup. If you gt hit by his Dair meteor smash, it's almost certan death due to our poor vertical recovery. His Nair and Fair **** our airdodge, and he kills us early as well. On the plus side, at least he can't chaingrab us, while we can chaingrab him...

Donkey Kong: 45:55 - He's a bit like the D3 matchup, except he doesn't have the chaingrab, and also Donkey Kong has more power and meteor smashes to make up for it. He kills us at around 90% on average; we kill him at around 150% on average. His Bair outranges most of our moves, and his range is overall better. Our turnips do help a lot, though, and stop this matchup being even worse.

ZSS: 40:60 - I have no idea how Peach is supposed to get around her. She outranges us bad, both in the air and on the ground, and as for Uair, if you airdodge it, she can Uair again due to its low lag, and it'll hit us during the airdodge lag. Paralyser shots mess with out floating, and a fresh Bair or Plasma Whip from her kills us at around 110%. And contrary to popualr belief she isn't easy to gimp if the opponent is good.

Falco, I feel like a broken record. How many times I have to go on about his lasers to you all, I'm leaving this one alone. Falco does not have this match up for the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 time!

I also went on about DK. Not in his favor nether another even match up. I play bum, I know the deal.

ZSS, I have played and beaten snakee ZSS. Him and I both agreed and other ZSS players that it is even.

People need to understand match ups in and out before saying these things like it is facts man.

All this stuff I have been through with you guys so many times. And people seem to shove it off. And this is one of the main reasons Peach is not doing so good out in tournys right now.

For once man, people, listen to what I am telling you.

 

[Razmakazi]

Idk mountain tiger, I think Zss is even. Just approach with your shield and turnips. And once you get inside, stay there. Zss has limited oos options even though utilt and uair is beast but yea...spacing bair on the shield and sumtimes nair is really good in this match-up b/c of the low lag and b/c u can avoid utilt.

also u can easily cover yourself with slaps and jab cancel'd jabs on the shield and jab grabs r good on zss's shield because she can't really do ****. both our jabs are 2 frames but it takes 4 frames to drop shield and if ur jab cancel'd jab gets side stepped or perfect shielded at worse it'd clash. besides, if u bait a side step then it's a free sh dair.

as far as being above zss trying to get to the ground. use dair to stop her up b and fastfall to the ground and time your double jump to get around her uair. try not to use the double jump that high in the air though and always di away from her.

but yea...even match-up b/c you can just force her to stay in her shield for so long. so yea...approach w/ turnips, try not to approach w/ the float but the float is rly good when you're pressuring her shield b/c dair will poke and you can chase rolls with your double jump.


-------

DK is even. I beat a good and lost to a good one in tourney at Genesis. He's so gay b/c he hits hard and bair is stupid but I usually punish short hop bairs with retreating fairs or turnip out of shield or just perfect shield into any follow-up. If he tries full hop bair walls glide tossing upward into up tilt will stop them from using those. Grounded up b can be beat by retreating fair/bair/toad/or just dair over the top.

DK is still a beast b/c his ftilt is annoying and beats turnips. Idk...peach just has the tools to keep him out. And also don't camp shield, time your shields instead b/c bair to headbutt or just plain headbutt hurts really badly but they can be clapped with nair/bair/ or just a jump so you don't get stuck in the ground. up smashing his short hops or headbutts can get you a kills on DK more easily than other chars.

It's just even b/c of bair though b/c it does keep you from floating. You can't float up to him b/c you will get bair'd for sure, you have to use the ground more and punish oos with your aerials and then use the float to pressure. Just what I think though.

-------

And well I hate Falco but I think it's at least 55:45 Falco's favor. Lasers are dumb but they can still be deal with by perfect shielding and what I do is use my full hop dairs then buffered floats, and then my double jump to chase falcos and their rolls or side bs. It's just really really tedious to keep him in check. Just hope he's predictable too so your sh dairs or ground float nairs **** him. Maybe there's more to add I guess but I'm lazy b/c I haven't played a rly good Falco in tourney in a long time.

Oh btw DP, you're so good at being constructive. Really, Mountain_Tiger isn't exactly the oldest person to start posting on the peach boards. Stuff does need to be repeated and rediscussed. It happens so get over it and get over yourself. ;-/

 

[Dark.Pch]

Oh btw DP, you're so good at being constructive. Really, Mountain_Tiger isn't exactly the oldest person to start posting on the peach boards. Stuff does need to be repeated and rediscussed. It happens so get over it and get over yourself. ;-/

I just lost all respect for Praxis after what he said to me. And this was not only tiger, goes for alot of people. I have never seen such a thing like this before from people who are so called "cool" with me. He be the last person I hear that from. Just can't believe that one.

The mindset of Peach now is seriously making me sick to the core. I have heard just about enough of this garbage. Praxis was the last of it.

 

[hiROI]

Just for Kicks, I found out that Peach's Ftilt is a weakspike/spike this past weekend. Whatchu think of this?

 

[slikvik]

Peach vs Wario is 60:40 Peach. I'm not gonna get into an argument with the Wario guys, but cmon all the top Wario players aside from PX say it's 60:40. Praxis isn't kidding with Bair, it is a FRAME TRAP. I've looked at it in game, on paper, applied into real matches, and it works. It's the same thing as Marth Fairing really close to the ground. If you don't airdodge he hits you, if you do he has enough time to grab you.

Peach's time to react to Wario's approach from that situation is too wide of a margin for Wario to be able to even half successfully out predict her in the near term.

I mean, we can just agree to disagree. Looks like I know who I'm using if I ever play you in tourney. Just remember I'm probably the only wario that also plays peach at a high level. btw East coast considers me a top wario so all the top warios aside from myself and PX think its 40:60, and the rest of the warios simply need to learn the match-up rather than assign arbitrary match-up ratio to cover up their own shortcomings.

@praxis. I'm assuming that you played the other warios similar to how you this one. The float bair brickwall you were spamming is far from unbeatable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps0UdJHEd20

 

[Dark.Pch]

Slikvik, next time I see you, Let me play your wario. I have lil to no experience on wario. I can't even talk about this match up. So I wanna get to know some **** on him and maybe make up my own way to do things. Well that is what I gotta do now. heh heh heh.

 

[PhantomX]

Look... here's the deal. You can get the lead and bair camp all you want, every 2 minutes your bair is getting super armored for 42% damage. Wario can't beat her grounded defensive game thus he doesn't try to... you can't approach him either, rofl. Besides, you get airborne and you're wafted no matter what you do, b/c it beats dair and bair and nair and your terrible airdodge.

It's a giant stalemate if both people do it right.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Only I know about this match up is

-grab release
- I can space the hell out of him for days.

I'm just reading along for now.

But Peach serious beats wario like that?

 

[Praxis]

Seriously, all Peach has to do is sit there and float. If Wario approaches high, use second jump and bair. Low, bair. If unsure, retreating bair will not get punished.

Dr. Mario Guy is right. It's a frame trap. I was doing some testing today, if Wario tries to airdodge through a bair, Peach can fastfall it and autocancel and grab him out of it, it's wonderful XD

Every Wario that has played against me with that playstyle has agreed with me on 60:40. But most Peaches don't space it properly, barring Edrees who taught me it XD

Wario can't beat her grounded defensive game thus he doesn't try to... you can't approach him either, rofl.

Neither can approach the other, but one of them (Peach) has a projectile, and one of them (Wario) has to specifically space not to get grabbed. Peach also has higher priority attacks, so the end result is that Peach has better tools to get the initial lead, and the tools to land a hit on a character running away.

Peach is more likely to get the initial lead, and whoever gets the initial lead will likely win. To sweeten the pot, though, Peach is the only one with a projectile to assist in catching up if she loses that lead.

 

[PhantomX]

Wario can eat everything Peach pulls out of her ******...

Only Bob-omb is really dangerous to swallow b/c of that laggy animation :\

 

[Praxis]

@praxis. I'm assuming that you played the other warios similar to how you this one. The float bair brickwall you were spamming is far from unbeatable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps0UdJHEd20

Ew no. That was after Edrees first told me about it. I was spacing horrifically in that matchup, I just didn't know at the time. XD

I started to figure it out at SCSA, but it really clicked when I played Futile at Genesis, so I ran over and immediately MM'd Dr. Mario Guy after I figured it out and beat Futile. XD

 

[mountain_tiger]

I just lost all respect for Praxis after what he said to me. And this was not only tiger, goes for alot of people. I have never seen such a thing like this before from people who are so called "cool" with me. He be the last person I hear that from. Just can't believe that one.

The mindset of Peach now is seriously making me sick to the core. I have heard just about enough of this garbage. Praxis was the last of it.

Sorry for annoying you, but that's how I feel about the match-ups. Actually, for ZSS, replace 40:60 with 45:55. 40:60 was probably a bit pessimistic of me. Let's just leave it be. I don't want to make you even more mad.

(Though, can we rediscuss Olimar? I don't think it's quite 70:30 our favour. More like 65:35 or 60:40 IMO. They're starting to find ways to get around our tricks).

 

[slikvik]

As for olimar, we have one on the EC that has beaten every single good peach main here. His name is pyronic star. He also beat kosmos and stopped him from making it out of pools at apex. I think he's doing exactly what i think praxis is doing to warios, beating them due to understanding how the match-up works so much better. However this wouldn't be possible if the match-up was 70:30 our favor and should probably be rediscussed

 

[Praxis]

I just lost all respect for Praxis after what he said to me.

...

The mindset of Peach now is seriously making me sick to the core. I have heard just about enough of this garbage. Praxis was the last of it.

Wait, what did I say???

As for olimar, we have one on the EC that has beaten every single good peach main here. His name is pyronic star. He also beat kosmos and stopped him from making it out of pools at apex. I think he's doing exactly what i think praxis is doing to warios, beating them due to understanding how the match-up works so much better. However this wouldn't be possible if the match-up was 70:30 our favor and should probably be rediscussed

I think Olimar vs Peach is 60:40 Peach, totally winnable on the Olimar's part (I have beaten almost every notable G&W, including Lee Puff and Hylian, in MMs, but it's totally G&W's favor).

I really don't know Wario to that degree, Edrees just told me what to do, I played like 3 matches against Fiction and figured it out. :/

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Guys I would put up other Rediscussion threads but quite frankly, the last couple have been borderline ignored. I've been busy so updating stuff is difficult for me but when I'm getting next to no input on the ones I've already put out...it's not exactly encouraging. I know Genesis is over now so hopefully things will be a bit more active now

ZSS is irriating but beatable, just prepare your OoS options and use SH Dairs against her. Punish ground moves with a Floating Dair or SH Dair if you're close

Falco, eh, still probably don't have enough experience vs him but from my experience, he's not that horrific. Dash Attack is super useful in this match up, Bair and Dair are handy, Turnips should only really be pulled when you get an opening and you should always take the chance to gimp his recovery

Wario is such an irritating character. Bair is good but recently I've found that spacing Floating Dairs are more useful to stop him from hitting you with aerials. Fair is valuable for outspacing him, F and Up Tilt are handy if he's agressive from above. I'm still not sure if this whole Floating Bair carry on is all it's cracked up to be. Can't Wario just run close by and underneath Peach, sheild the Bair and grab her? Wario has a noticebly larger grab range than Peach


The Wario Rediscussion thread is still floating around. Falco has one but you'll have to rummage in the cess pool of arguements in that one. Olimar doesn't have one, I wanted to do Diddy Kong (who does have one) first

 

[goodkid]

Yeah oli is starting to get annoying. My dair spam isn't working anymore. The oli somehow uses up-smash and it goes through dair >_< or they just up-b. Peach has trouble w/ Fair as a shield pressure because oli can just pivot grab/f-smash/running up-smash which tends to beat out my jab attempts. Peach is good @ destroying pikmin, but up-close if not played correctly she will lose because of his high KO power.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'm done helping people here. Not only I get insulted, but I have to find out I get talked behind my back from some Peach players. This kind of respect I am not gonna take anymore.You boys are on your own without me. But I am sure you do just fine, cause I never know what I am talking about and the Peach players of the WC know the deal.

The Peach Ditto match up I refuse to explain it, Really after what I heard Kos-Mos said about me and told people. Same with other match ups. I refuse to be taken advantage of like this again For helping people out in match up. if I know something is wrong and can correct you boys and you would even agree, I am not saying a word. You boys keep thinking the wrong is right.. I'm not saying a thing. I know more about Peach than anyone on this site. What, I am crazy? Going a lil too far? ego maniac much? I will put down money for anyone to test me on Peach. And you try to prove you know more than me with Peach in general and even match ups combine and her meta game .anyone, 100, 200 bucks. Name the price.

I decided to bring what I know to you people to help you out, all you have to do is listen. But then I get all this that I found out yesterday from Peach players. I seriously can't be a nice guy.

Sorry ricky but I am done. People don't wanna listen and I get insulted. it's over. This does not go out to Peach players that I helped and listen to what I tell them to do. But I'm seriously getting annoyed by this crap, getting insulted and taken advantage of. Have fun boys

 

[mountain_tiger]

I don't recall any of us ever insulting you on here... I'm fairly sure I haven't.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Those people know who they are and those people know who talked behind my back.

This does not inculded people like you. Not am I gonna bring this mess in here. I said what I had to say, I am done and result to help this site. Peach can fail to no end on here and I could care less.

But it is also not fair to others that have nothing to do with this. So if you guys want help from me, Look and any of my instant messaging stuff and talk to me there. Or use my Ask my question thread.

Now it is over, I said what I had to, the end. Go back to your topic on Olimar and the test. I got nothing else more to say here.