Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[White-Peach]

Kills at 93% actually.

Depends on the stage

 

[Villi]

Depends on the stage

And DI. Wario's not going to let himself go straight up into a KO, he's gonna DI sideways to give him some extra percentage to survive.

 

[PKNintendo]

Kills at 93% actually.

Crap.

 

[PhantomX]

How does Upsmash kill compared to say a fresh Snake uptilt? From a grab release with Smash DI I can survive a fresh Snake uptilt up til 135%. Since it's telegraphed what you're going to do, you can start DIing perpendicularly before the grab release even goes off.

 

[PKNintendo]

How does Upsmash kill compared to say a fresh Snake uptilt? From a grab release with Smash DI I can survive a fresh Snake uptilt up til 135%. Since it's telegraphed what you're going to do, you can start DIing perpendicularly before the grab release even goes off.

I know! Plus, Snakes Utilt barely reaches Wario, with the weak hit box hitting you.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Don't you think you boys should quit the fighting and focus on how to handle wario? I rarely play this guy, so I can't even give anything on him. And so far from this topic I dont know how to handle the dude too well. All I know is the grab release on him. And Since it is not easy to just grab wario, I will not be depending on that to get my wins.

I don't know how to approach wario too well nether. The only I got on wario that I found out on my own was a stage to play him on and for ME, its delfino. I'm pretty much a dunce in this fight. But I'll guess I'll figure this out on my own.

I also have problems killing Wario

 

[PKNintendo]

Don't you think you boys should quit the fighting and focus on how to handle wario? I rarely play this guy, so I can't even give anything on him. And so far from this topic I dont know how to handle the dude too well. All I know is the grab release on him. And Since it is not easy to just grab wario, I will not be depending on that to get my wins.

I don't know how to approach wario too well nether. The only I got on wario that I found out on my own was a stage to play him on and for ME, its delfino. I'm pretty much a dunce in this fight. But I'll guess I'll figure this out on my own.

I also have problems killing Wario

What do you think the matchup stands at. 5-5?

 

[Dark.Pch]

I really don't know, as I said before, I rarely play Wario. I don't know much about him. So I just let him throw the first punch and take it from there and play defensive. That how I play against characters I don't know how to handle.

And with the way this match up is being handle, I have not learned much at all. People need to get into more detail then just saying three sentences and then going "ok, thats all,now next character"

 

[PhantomX]

I made a wall o text last page, dark. pch. I don't give too many insights on how to beat Wario, but I give detailed explanation of strengths and weaknesses vs each other.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I see, I'll check it out then.

My Problems with wario are:

- approaching. He moves around like melee jiggs. The aprroaches I have are not that great when is is moving around too much.

- killing him. His defense is too high. Yet he can kill me with not much trouble due to how light I am, this sucks.

- somewhat edguarding him. But though I am thinking if I can somehow snipe him off the bike, I can reduce the trouble for edguarding him. As I read somewhere around here, I am not gonna destroy the bike against Wario. I am gonna leave it alone. soif I was to knock him out, he can't use it to recover and thus, It could lead to his death.

everything else I think I have it down against wario. I am a defensive player so that kinda helps against wario for I don't know much about him. If I feel pressured against wario I get away from him. I wont try attacking. I just wanna get my space. Then find an opening or let him throw the first punch.

 

[PhantomX]

Being defensive can be both good and bad. If you're just sitting back, he can (and should) start shorthopping just out of your range/around you or pressuring w/ dairs or bite until you make a move, and then attempt to punish when the opportunity arises. You outprioritize him in the air, and at worse, clash moves w/ him. At low percents, dair abuse is killer against a Wario, especially since it can combo into other moves. Fsmash outranges everything of Wario's that isn't ftilt, but be cautious cuz they could just bait it and then punish you. You can try to use turnips, but they're honestly not that big a deal from my experience (unlike, say, bananas or nades).

You can approach a Wario by predicting his jumping patterns or where he's going to land, chasing him is pretty much irrelevant. If you float you'll be pretty slow, you're almost better off running and then doing shed aerials when in range (unless you're already close and you want to pressure with floating dairs).

If you hit him offstage and he doesn't have his second jump CHASE HIM (unless he has a fart ready, about every 50ish seconds), you can hit him as he's pulling out the bike w/ any attack or a turnip and he will die. Leaving the bike onstage is not that viable, b/c the Wario will make every attempt to get rid of it by either fighting around it til it's destroyed, or eating it.

The fact that Wario kills quickly and Peach can't really kill Wario is what made the matchup in Wario's favor previously. Now you have the grab release to upsmash as a viable kill option (at least on flat stages), though a good Wario will make your life a living hell if you try to grab him (they'll be expecting it). Fairs are what usually end up getting me, but that's not til like the 170s. If you can predict them doing a dair on you, you can use an uptilt or an upsmash.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Kills at 93% actually.

I have video proof that you guys are both wrong.

Observe 3:34 :

http://www.getyourtournament.com/multimedia/2008/08/aznforce-v-edreesespieces-vs-futile.html

watch match 1 at 3:34

I hit him up upsmash at 96%, and after the upsmash he was at 113%. Upsmash was fully charged. didn't kill him.

 

[Praxis]

How does Upsmash kill compared to say a fresh Snake uptilt? From a grab release with Smash DI I can survive a fresh Snake uptilt up til 135%. Since it's telegraphed what you're going to do, you can start DIing perpendicularly before the grab release even goes off.

Upsmash > Snake Utilt, but only if it sweetspots (and the sweetspot is very hard to land). IIRC, Peach has the 5th strongest upsmash in the game.

The sweetspot is hard to land nroamly, but grab release deposits Wario directly in the right spot for it. It's Peach's only under-100% kill move.

 

[Praxis]

I have video proof that you guys are both wrong.

Observe 3:34 :

http://www.getyourtournament.com/multimedia/2008/08/aznforce-v-edreesespieces-vs-futile.html

watch match 1 at 3:34

I hit him up upsmash at 96%, and after the upsmash he was at 113%. Upsmash was fully charged. didn't kill him.

I remember you being surprised out of your mind when that happened though. Did he perfectly SDI it or something?

 

[PhantomX]

It's not hard to perfectly Smash DI something that you have an hour to see coming, which is probably why it didn't kill til the 110s onward.

 

[Villi]

It doesn't even look like he smash DI'd it in that video. If he did, he would have been put in a position other than the spot where Peach's attack connected with him and THEN he would have been launched.

He was probably just holding his joystick to the right while Peach up smashed him which altered the trajectory of the attack (which is normally straight up) so that that distance he would need to travel to hit the blast zone was increased. Against a Wario in FD, I have tested that 95% is a good number if your opponent doesn't DI. Assuming he does DI, and has the sense and timing to smash DI as well, he could probably live to 110% I don't feel like testing it right now, but it seems like a fair guess.

Otherwise, I don't have much to say about the Wario matchup. If you manage to knock him off his bike while he's recovering, he loses his bike jump and is stuck with maybe a second jump and his poor up b. I find that fsmashes stutter-stepped backward is a good counter to Wario's fsmash.

 

[White-Peach]

I find that fsmashes stutter-stepped backward is a good counter to Wario's fsmash.

They're good for EVERYTHING :o

 

[Praxis]

Oh yeah, it's probably a stage thing. Different stages have different kill %s.

 

[Morrigan]

IIRC, on FD it kills around 95-100%

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

If an Up Smash grab release is the easiest way to kill Wario...doesn't that mean that our beloved Jungle Japes isn't going to be good here vs Wario?

 

[Praxis]

If an Up Smash grab release is the easiest way to kill Wario...doesn't that mean that our beloved Jungle Japes isn't going to be good here vs Wario?

Hmm, in my experience Wario usually kills off the sides except when he uairs me. Japes will gimp his uair, but it'll gimp our grab release, and give him more room for him to utilize his aerial prowess. So yes, I would say not to go to Jungle Japes. Take him to Green Greens maybe? xD Low ceiling FTW.

 

[Dark.Pch]

My stages for me against Wario is Delfino and I am starting to like halberd. The Grab release would do him good on that stage.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Use this game's ez-mode pivot grab if you want to get any grabs at all on Wario. Pivot grabs have disjointed reach, typically much farther than standing/dash grabs and Peach's is no exception.

You can also grab release Wario into double hitting Nairs and Bairs, both of which do a good deal more damage than actual throws.

 

[PhantomX]

Don't take Wario to Delfino, it's a great Wario stage. For one, Wario's DI is good enough to weave around smallish platforms, like that one has. Wario also lives off pressuring his opponent, add to that the pressure of being near a walk-off edge, and he's in heaven. He can kill you w/ a fsmash as low as 30% on the steps in one section. Then there's the pillar section which has a super low ceiling, great for Wario (and you can't grab release him here because the tiny pillars don't give you room to hyphen smash). Also, if you fall in the water, consider yourself dead at 50 to a fart.

Halberd is much better. The tremendous platforms that you can camp under with your higher priority moves can be a huge nuisance, and you can harass underneath the platform (just watch out for gutsy Warios attempting a gimp). Lylat is a fairly good stage against Wario because the tilting platform (and the slant) give you many more opportunities to grab release should you grab him. Yoshi's Island is also good b/c of the giant platform, the platform guy can save you when you're floating, the platform slants upwards sometimes, allowing you to do the grab release, and if you grab him while ON the platform, even better.

Granted they can still fastfall upair you through the big platforms (it's really the only good option aside from attempting a fall-through bite), but if you're on point you should be able to avoid that. I don't know how Peach handles on Luigi's Mansion, but that is by far Wario's worst stage. The few platforms there are in the way, and I think if you grab release anywhere underneath one of the floor dividing platforms, you get to infinite him w/ grab releases. Aside from Luigi's, Final Destination. Nothing will interrupt your grab release should you get it, the sides aren't too close (like in PS1 or Green Greens or Japes), and the ceiling is high enough, I would say. I guess ultimately what matters though is that you pick a stage that you can work better than your opponents.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Use this game's ez-mode pivot grab if you want to get any grabs at all on Wario. Pivot grabs have disjointed reach, typically much farther than standing/dash grabs and Peach's is no exception.

You can also grab release Wario into double hitting Nairs and Bairs, both of which do a good deal more damage than actual throws.

Ah you are right. I really need to work pivot grabs into my game. I could see that aiding a ton in getting the grabs on Wario for any Peach.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I don't know, I seem to do fine against wario on delfino. But if its a bad stage for me then I won't risk it again. I'll stick with Halberd and lylat.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Picking a stage is just like picking a character. Sure Metaknight is better than Peach, but I'm better with Peach so it wouldn't be smart to pick metaknight to try to win a random matchup if I have trouble. I think it's the same with stages. If you're good enough at utilizing a stage then by all means pick it

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ha, thats something I would not know about. I can only play Peach in this game. I fail with others. And I am not good with stages nether. I don't know how to counterpick those. I lack alot when it comes to this game, like playing other characters andplaying on stages that peach does good on.

 

[Praxis]

Also, if you fall in the water, consider yourself dead at 50 to a fart.

Not necessarily, with jesuswalking


As to the stage discussion, yeah, pick stages you are comfortable with, but develop a good variety of stages and pick them based on the matchup. For example, my two favorite stages are Jungle Japes and Green Greens. I know exactly how the traps work and avoid them better than my opponents and use them to my advantage, but which I pick depends on who my opponent is. If my opponent primarily kills off the top (i.e. Toon Link, Olimar), I'm going to pick Jungle Japes. If my opponent is known for never dying or having ridiculous recovery (Metaknight, ROB, G&W) I'm going to pick Green Greens.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'm pretty much an idot when it comes to stages. I am a coward to play on stages I might have the advantage on with some characters. I tried it a few times and failed. Only time I did not fail was against wario on delfino. Only thing I rely on to win is my skills and brains on Peach, thats it. So i guess I am kinda limited.

 

[Praxis]

Counterpicking is an art For example, when fight Falcos, I usually literally get a free win if I pick Rainbow Cruise. If they ban it, I'm prepared with a host of other stages that will mess up Falco pretty bad, and sometimes the Falcos think to ban those stages that I counterpick a lot, and are taken by surprise (or say "oh ****") when I pick Rainbow.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

This is pretty shady, but I tend to pretend to counterpick one stage, then say "oh wait, what stage do you ban" then they will ban that stage, and I can pick the real stage I want. LoL.

 

[Morrigan]

You're eviiiil.

 

[PhantomX]

What's jesus walking?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

You're eviiiil.

The way I see it, they are more evil for picking gay characters like Metaknight or Snake.

 

[Praxis]

What's jesus walking?

Groundfloating on the water, so that Peach is half submerged and has full mobility and can perform all of her aerials in the water. She can move forward and backwards and do any aerial, especially nice as the opponent is flailing in the water.

 

[PhantomX]

Well, then I guess that would take away one of the nicest benefits of Delfino for Warios.

 

[slikvik]

lmao at someone calling it jesus walking

 

[Morrigan]

*looks at Praxis* xD

 

[EdreesesPieces]

For the love of Sakurai, God , and anything that is true in this world, I hope that name doesn't get picked up :D