Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Praxis]

Might jab-grabs be a good method to obtain grab-release hits?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Yea I have done it before to wario. It will help

 

[DMG]

Might jab-grabs be a good method to obtain grab-release hits?

The risk you run there is that Wario can break to the ground if you are hitting him during a grab. At lower %'s, it's safer just to get the grab in and just wait for him to be released instead of pummeling him beforehand.

Wario vs Peach is fairly even, it's not too hard to avoid a grab from Peach and I would say Wario might even have the advantage if the stage they are playing on has good platforms.

 

[Ace55]

The risk you run there is that Wario can break to the ground if you are hitting him during a grab. At lower %'s, it's safer just to get the grab in and just wait for him to be released instead of pummeling him beforehand.

I think he meant jab to grab.

I don't know a thing about the Peach matchup, so I won't try commenting on that.

 

[3GOD]

Shield grabbing a good Wario is pretty much not gonna happen (maybe 1 or 2 times per match). He will either get behind your shield or just Chomp you for attempting to shield grab.

Peach's best option for grabbing is probably Jab --> Grab, but even that can be difficult to land. If Peach can catch Wario shielding, autocancel Fair --> Jab --> Grab works great; but again, a good Wario will know to avoid staying still (shielding) for more than a couple of frames in this match-up.

Wario's Uair is great for juggling, and I'm pretty sure it will beat Peach's Dair most of the time. I think they go pretty even in the air since Peach can do things like Dair --> Dair --> Uair/Nair/Fair/Bair. Wario has similar aerial combos on Peach at low %s...for example, full jump Dair --> fast fall Uair --> full jump Dair --> another aerial maybe...this combo can easily deal 40 to 50%.

Obviously, Peach has a better ground game in general thanks to her great jab and good tilts, but Wario does have a slightly better grab range (pretty insignificant though) and good Fsmash.

And of course, when it comes time for KOing, Wario has the Waft, Uair, and powerful Fsmash for KOs just like Peach has Fair and grab release --> Usmash. Waft is probably the easiest/safest of these to land in an actual match, but I think that Peach's grab release --> Usmash is good enough that it makes this match-up dead even...

...one thing I completely forgot about is Turnips. Good use of turnips may be enough to slightly tip the match-up to Peach's favor, but I think that Wario's ability to weave around so much will still keep it pretty much 50-50.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I've never played any super good Warios but if sheild grabbing a hyperactive Wario doesn't work, will an out of sheild Nair hit him when his Dair has finished?

 

[PhantomX]

Turnips as I've said are really not that bothersome. If you lie anywhere within the path of the glide toss Wario can bite both the turnip and Peach. Wario's airdodge and DI are uber enough to avoid both any airborne turnips and Peach at the same time as well. The most dangerous thing about turnips is that if they have great aim/prediction, they can hit you off your bike as you pull it out.

 

[White-Peach]

It was my understanding that glidetossing a turnip would make wario get stuck in his "item swallow" animation (like DDD), leaving him open for grab/slap>grab

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Turnips as I've said are really not that bothersome. If you lie anywhere within the path of the glide toss Wario can bite both the turnip and Peach. Wario's airdodge and DI are uber enough to avoid both any airborne turnips and Peach at the same time as well. The most dangerous thing about turnips is that if they have great aim/prediction, they can hit you off your bike as you pull it out.

I place my turnips in such way that avoiding them places you in a position to get hit by my aerials. For example if you are above me, I will throw a turnip upwards on you're left side, and up air under you/towards the right. The more you "avoid" the turnip the more you are suseptible to Peach's other hits. That is the best use of turnips, not the damage of the turnip itself.

 

[PhantomX]

Isn't that mostly you mindgaming them, though? Wario's aerial DI SHOULD be sufficient to get away from you and either airdodge through the turnip or at worst take the hit from it.

 

[P.O.P.]

I typically use Fairs and Fsmashes the most against Wario. Because in some cases Wario's attacks don't reach too far, Peach's fairs and fsmashes are a no brainer in those situations. Comboing with aerials and dsmashes work too because u can poke through wario's shield, most likely escape a shield grab, and take advantage by floating and following up with an attack.

I found this vid on youtube of a really good peach and i have no comment on the wario player. check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrYK97uoXgY

 

[Niko_K]

The point is that the turnip becomes an obstacle for him to get around, putting you in an offensive advantage. You know he is going to want to get away from the turnip, so you chase his air control or air dodges with your own aerials. I wouldn't really call it mindgaming, more so positioning.

 

[DMG]

Airdodge + Catching the turnip = My Turnip :D

Aerial + Catching the Turnip = Awesome

Turnips are ok, but it's not too hard for Wario to just flat out avoid it or find a better strategic position. There are plenty of projectiles that I am worried about as Wario compared to the turnips, unless it's a powerful one :/

 

[deepseadiva]

Stages I suggest against Wario are Luigi's Mansion and Castle Siege.

Edreeses, I think a "Good Counterpicks" section would be REALLY helpful.
I hear Wario is Jeebus on Battlefield...

 

[Praxis]

Airdodge + Catching the turnip = My Turnip :D

Aerial + Catching the Turnip = Awesome

Turnips are ok, but it's not too hard for Wario to just flat out avoid it or find a better strategic position. There are plenty of projectiles that I am worried about as Wario compared to the turnips, unless it's a powerful one :/

Airdodge + catching the turnip = you getting hit as you come out of the airdodge, and then having a turnip that causes you to lose half your moveset as your A button no longer works and you try to figure out a good way to land it usefully.

 

[deepseadiva]

Not to mention NO ONE knows how to use them correctly. Unless you have a Peach or Diddy secondary or something.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Well their weight and item throw animations aren't designed for turnips. Some people throw turnips with such lag that when you see them starting to throw it out you can reach them and punish them with a free hit. IMO I think turnips got buffed in brawl because they ARE easier to catch, as I've always wished more of my opponents would catch the turnip on accident, it really messes up their game plan.

 

[Praxis]

Not to mention NO ONE knows how to use them correctly. Unless you have a Peach or Diddy secondary or something.

*plus*, even if you were a Peach master playing Wario, you can't do aerials out of float, so you are confined to B button maneuvers until you place the turnip. At least with Diddy's Bananas you can throw them, attack, and pick them up again.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I mainly use turnips to slow him down and disturb his air game, so it can be a lil easier to do damage on him or even grab him. I don't foucs too much on hitting him with them. Its hard at times for how Wario moves around.

 

[hova]

this Wario guy is just picking absurd situation where Wario can do well in the match up. besides bite shenanigans, Wario is going to have an extremely hard time hitting Peach with any attack unless she messes up. it's also amazingly simple to avoid his kill moves

low percent combos **** and just playing quick and doing pitty pat hits will either straight up **** Wario or force him to shield leading to a grab and his demise

and saying Futile and Edreeses and the absolute best with their mains is a little arrogant

 

[Niko_K]

Hova is a pretty smart dude. I honestly think this match up is already covered now. We should move on and say its 60:40 in Peach's favor.

 

[DMG]

Hova is a pretty smart dude. I honestly think this match up is already covered now. We should move on and say its 60:40 in Peach's favor.

Hova didn't really go in depth about the matchup though, all he said was that Wario gets ***** by Peach and that Wario has a hard time landing moves until/unless the Peach player messes up. You shouldn't close a matchup discussion just cause one person says a character gets shutdown, that should spark more debate/conversation instead of dampening it.

 

[Ace55]

Wow, the best Wario in Texas tries to help you guys (maybe girls, you do main Peach) with the matchup and all you do is bullsh*t right over it. Maybe you should reconsider asking the other character boards for help and just do it all by yourselfs. Doesn't really seem like it would make much a difference.

 

[hova]

the dude named random situations where wario has an advantage. i never put myself in those situations

i think the guy just plays scrub peaches all day

i'm the best peach main in my area and my friend plays luigi sometimes... should i go preach to the luigi boards?


shut ur mouth Ace

 

[exidid]

Could we limit ourselves to matchup discussion >.<

 

[deepseadiva]

Yes people, focus.

Warios - I thank you all for your input. It's very greatly appreciated.
And Niko, the discussion is nowhere near done. Wario, nor Peach's ways to deal with him, are not that shallow.

How about we discuss some videos? You remember these right?:

http://www.getyourtournament.com/multimedia/2008/08/shuffle-and-cut-semifinals.html

What did Edreeses do right/wrong? How could he have dealt with things better?

 

[hova]

i hate watching brawl vids soooooo slow

he could've not randomly fsmashed every couple of seconds(i only watched the first stocks of the first vid)

even while doing a bunch of **** i wouldn't recommend doing against Wario he ate his **** that first stock

Peach > Wario... now lets move on to Wolf or Pit


edit: i forsee in the near future Niko and I just being the arseholes of the Peach boards. and if not him, definitely me... i apologize in advance

 

[deepseadiva]

Peach > Wario... now lets move on to Wolf or Pit

No. Notice the "Weekly" part of the thread title.

Although a character might be better than another it's not 100/0 Peach. We can still discuss junk. Counterpicks, what to do with the left over bike, etc.

Edit: To Hova's edit: Hova is awesome.

 

[hova]

lmao...

i'll show you exactly what to do with the left over bike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJbNUCimIJ0

check out Wario's first death

edit: i am in know way trying to use this vid to support my claim that peach ***** Wario... it was teams and he really had no idea what was coming

 

[deepseadiva]

Can we glide toss it?

 

[Praxis]

Just pieces of it.

 

[Morrigan]

I wouldn't suggest breaking/throwing it though.

 

[deepseadiva]

I wouldn't suggest breaking/throwing it though.

Throwing it is crap. You move like a centimeter if you try moving around while holding it, and it has this set throwing distance. It does 10% damage and won't KO.

But destroying it gets our fair two slots higher on the refreshed move list, five if we use turnips. =D

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Wow, the best Wario in Texas tries to help you guys (maybe girls, you do main Peach) with the matchup and all you do is bullsh*t right over it. Maybe you should reconsider asking the other character boards for help and just do it all by yourselfs. Doesn't really seem like it would make much a difference.

Don't worry, the guy in charge of the thread takes his words into consideration and didn't shoot it down. Did you see my post? I was agreeing and both disagreeing. I liked his input and we appreciate it. He actually broke the matchup down which can't be said about Hova. I set the matchup based on who supports themselves with reasoning and breaks the matchup down to the most detail, that's what I've been doing and that's what I will continue to do. So far it's around 55-45 Peach's favor.

Hova, if you could explain why those situations were 'obscure' and never happen, I'd love to know. Because I've seen those situations happen and so has he.

I don't mean to be cocky here, but when I play other Wario's I easily 2 stock them. It's not a problem at all. But when I play Futile I'm forced into those situations. He's just that good, but I believe he's a player that jives with Wario and knows how to tap his potential and metagame, which is what the matchup should be based on, not based on lower level Wario players. And at the highest level of play down the line I see Wario having the tools necessary to make it a competitive fight, with Peach just having a small advantage. - Based on Wario's ability to avoid grabs, his aerial control, his weight and ability to survive, and his very effective KO ability on Peach. It's enough to make up for all the other stuff Peach has on him to make it a slight advantage to her.

 

[deepseadiva]

Would the 55 advantage die if the Wario counterpicked a stage with platforms?

It's starting to look like FD is our best option.
No platforms to interfere with the release, and some nice room for turnip spam.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Considering Wario is one of most used characters in tourneys by the looks of things, even if the match up was Llamacario style in our favour I don't think it would be best to overlook it too much

If Wario had platforms then it could mess up an advantage. Limited Turnip game, grab release interference...not to mention if Peach get's stuck on a platform she leaves herself very open for a Uair from Wario which hurts...a lot

The OOS Nair thing obviously doesn't work but would an F Tilt work vs Wario's Dair? After watching Edreese's videos again it seems that F Tilt and F Smash work very well vs Wario when he's trying to aerial **** you

 

[Ace55]

the dude named random situations where wario has an advantage. i never put myself in those situations

i think the guy just plays scrub peaches all day

i'm the best peach main in my area and my friend plays luigi sometimes... should i go preach to the luigi boards?


shut ur mouth Ace

Wtf? This is precisely what I'm talking about.

 

[PKNintendo]

I kinda of think it's 50-50. But Im a 50-50 kinda guy.

Anyway.

Wario has:

KO power.
Aerial control.
great grab range.
Glide tossing bike.
Impressive recovery.
Heavy. (It takes a L-o-o-n-g time to kill Wario with Peach)
A waft that KO's at 60%-ish if used at half charge.
Air grab.
Difficult to grab


Peach has
Aerial priority (dair especially)
Glide tossing turnips.
Grab release Upsmash kills at 113%.
Great vertical recovery.
Grab release into Nair, or sometimes Fair.
Infinite if Wario has already used his double jump.


Just to note. To be kinda of honest without this grab glitch, I would look at that matchup being 60-40 for Wario.

 

[Praxis]

Grab release Upsmash kills at 113%.

Kills at 93% actually.

 

[Morrigan]

But destroying it gets our fair two slots higher on the refreshed move list, five if we use turnips. =D

Remember that leaving the bike sitting there takes away Wario's effective recovery method (his regular UpB sucks), that's why I bever touch it (on purpose). I prefer gimping his recovery than a couple stale moves that can go away easily.

If he comes towards you with the bike just Toad it, it won't destroy the bike, knocks him off of it and the spores hit him for quite a bit of damage.