Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[EdreesesPieces]

Ok llamacario has been updated. I will add lucario and switch to Wario tomorrow.

 

[Morrigan]

lol @ the Wikipedia "did you know" copy paste.

BTW, you should add a resized *small* picture of it, people may confuse him for Lucario.

 

[Praxis]

Hope you take into consideration my previous post Edrees :3

 

[Peachkid]

OMG that is epic, dont forget about his 0-999% combo (that takes only 1 second) and his signature grin instant kill fsmash that has no lag. btdubs i got spore 2 days ago. first offical project: making the llamacario

 

[Peachkid]

Btw, i created a Llamacario fan group http://smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=299 join now! or else llamacario will punt you across the world at light speed

 

[deepseadiva]

REALLY? A 50/50 matchup? I'd say 60/40.

Extreme Speed is dating Pikmin Chain. Peach wins.

Btw, i created a Llamacario fan group http://smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=299 join now! or else llamacario will punt you across the world at light speed

*joins out of utter fear*

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I'm insulted at how you forgot to mention that Llamacario has Gravity which stops you from jump and floating. You completly ignored the fact that even if you do manage to negate Gravity using Dair causes Peach to instantly disintergrate, causing her to lose a stock. Spit sphere is a deadly projectile that can 1 hit ko you if it sweetspots (or hits Peach in the eye, be careful because it has a MASSIVE hitbox). I highly recommend that you don't pick Jungle Japes as the music is very quiet and enhances Llamacario's mating call. I've heard that a way of beating this horrible match up is to continually spam Toad until the Llamacario runs away or gets bored of having a mushroom man constantly flung in his face. Testing needs to be done.

I am currently working on a solution to counter the Llamacario. It's impossible to say whether it will work or not but currently, my solution contains a duck, a slice of cheesecake, paracetemol (must be in tablet form. Liquid form will NOT work. Do NOT make this mistake), a brick, a potato (it's debatable on whether new potatoes or sweet potatoes will have any effect as not enough testing has been performed), a mushroom (this is where my theory for spamming Toad came from and I believe it is a crucial part to the solution). Once you have these ingredients, you need to brew them in a paticular place. I recommend you counter pick Hanenbow as Llamcario is at a severe disadvantage when on trees.

I hope my advice helps someone out there. Remember, we must never give up hope...

Spoiler

I'm fine with 50-50. When are we starting Wario?

 

[Dark.Pch]

I say we do wolf, my worst match up in this whole game. I try to play it cool, calm, mindgames, but I just cant take this fool at all. Every good Wolf I have lost too. Even If I am a better player, they beat me cause its wolf. This is my true weakness. you wanna beat me easy pick wolf on me and you got it.

Then when I try to edgeguard him, he ether comes back or I die cause of it.

 

[Peachkid]

im sorry rick. but llamacario has no weakness, plus the items u just mentioned are the projectiles he throws. btw im trying to hack so that i can play llamacario with out sakurai popping out of the tv and smashing me with the ban hammer (oh and i made him in spore as well! :D)


and yay! a topic i can finally add to and give good advice!

 

[Peachkid]

I'm insulted at how you forgot to mention that Llamacario has Gravity which stops you from jump and floating. You completly ignored the fact that even if you do manage to negate Gravity using Dair causes Peach to instantly disintergrate, causing her to lose a stock. Spit sphere is a deadly projectile that can 1 hit ko you if it sweetspots (or hits Peach in the eye, be careful because it has a MASSIVE hitbox). I highly recommend that you don't pick Jungle Japes as the music is very quiet and enhances Llamacario's mating call. I've heard that a way of beating this horrible match up is to continually spam Toad until the Llamacario runs away or gets bored of having a mushroom man constantly flung in his face. Testing needs to be done.

I am currently working on a solution to counter the Llamacario. It's impossible to say whether it will work or not but currently, my solution contains a duck, a slice of cheesecake, paracetemol (must be in tablet form. Liquid form will NOT work. Do NOT make this mistake), a brick, a potato (it's debatable on whether new potatoes or sweet potatoes will have any effect as not enough testing has been performed), a mushroom (this is where my theory for spamming Toad came from and I believe it is a crucial part to the solution). Once you have these ingredients, you need to brew them in a paticular place. I recommend you counter pick Hanenbow as Llamcario is at a severe disadvantage when on trees.

I hope my advice helps someone out there. Remember, we must never give up hope...

Spoiler

I'm fine with 50-50. When are we starting Wario?

one more thing. the music is soooooo quiet on hanenbow. thats like **** if he uses his mating call, the only thing that might save u is if he gets distracted by the electoplankton so u can inflict 10% tops

 

[Dark.Pch]

Seriously make this wolf edresse. If I can learn to deal with this character, then I dont think I have anyone too worry about in tournaments. DK I still need some help with but he is not on wolfs level with my problems. And I am not gonna add anything to the wold topic since he is my worst match up, I am gonna sit this one out like I did with lucario

 

[Praxis]

I say we do wolf, my worst match up in this whole game. I try to play it cool, calm, mindgames, but I just cant take this fool at all. Every good Wolf I have lost too. Even If I am a better player, they beat me cause its wolf. This is my true weakness. you wanna beat me easy pick wolf on me and you got it.

Then when I try to edgeguard him, he ether comes back or I die cause of it.

I actually find Wolf easier than Falco because of the slower lasers, and he's easier to combo. But...his recovery is a LOT harder to stop than Falco. :/

Nair beats his forward-B if it helps.

 

[Dark.Pch]

The lasers are not much of a problem. I can shut that laser game down if needed too. Idont have a solid strat for wolf. What I do is see how smart my enemy is, then look at what habits he has. and last how he is usuing wolf. Then from there I am forced to think of something on the spot and hope I can win. And all space animals are easy to combo, But that is not gonna get me the win, so I wont rely on that.

 

[Morrigan]

Seriously make this wolf edresse. If I can learn to deal with this character, then I dont think I have anyone too worry about in tournaments. DK I still need some help with but he is not on wolfs level with my problems. And I am not gonna add anything to the wold topic since he is my worst match up, I am gonna sit this one out like I did with lucario

You made this huge Wolf matchup thread a month ago I believe.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You made this huge Wolf matchup thread a month ago I believe.

And I still fail. Besides People like Edresse were not in on it. I like to know what he thinks.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I didn't participate because I don't really know the matchup. There are no good Wolfs down here. I've played random wolfs in tourney that I 3 stocked, and my little brother uses Wolf but he doesn't play competitively. I've played Germ in friendlies but we were both under the influence so I'm not counting that LOL.

I've played Wolf in teams a few times but that doesn't count either. I've never had a tourney match with a good Wolf. I know what moves he has, his range and the spacing, but I honestly can't add much to it. From what I do know, I used a lot of short hop back airs, it seemed to work well against him.

 

[XERAMPELINAE]

^ If we're not discussing Wolf then let's please consider discussing Toon Link instead of Wario or whoever. A lot of Toon Links are clueless on how to face a Peach, but smart TLs will immediately realize that projectile spamming is the key to ****** Peach.
Right now I'm observing how TL plays, but I'd really like to discuss him in depth with you guys.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Well, I'll figure this out on my own. I was playing the CPU lv. 9 wolf. It was good training. it even did shine combos. it was good at spacing. So I had a hard time dealing with it.......which is good. Cause now I can figure how to deal with him on my own for practice. ThenOnce I get the hang of it, I can fight people and hopefully do better. But the CPU is good. Fight him with Peach and you will see what I mean

And I say we start with wario. In the ranks matches I has on allisbrawl, I ave lost to three warios. The matches were close but I can't get the hang of him. He is hard to grab. And moves around too much in the air. Also how does the grab release work on wario? I think there was matches where I could have won due to a grab reslease to upsmash, but I could not do it.

 

[Peachkid]

Well, I'll figure this out on my own. I was playing the CPU lv. 9 wolf. It was good training. it even did shine combos. it was good at spacing. So I had a hard time dealing with it.......which is good. Cause now I can figure how to deal with him on my own for practice. ThenOnce I get the hang of it, I can fight people and hopefully do better. But the CPU is good. Fight him with Peach and you will see what I mean

And I say we start with wario. In the ranks matches I has on allisbrawl, I ave lost to three warios. The matches were close but I can't get the hang of him. He is hard to grab. And moves around too much in the air. Also how does the grab release work on wario? I think there was matches where I could have won due to a grab reslease to upsmash, but I could not do it.

you grab wario, (not nessacery but if u want to get a few more points of dmg on him) pummel him and stop before he manages to struggle out, then he will be flung in the air. theres the time to do a hyphen smash

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Perhaps if I post something here about Wolf this time it won't get blatantly ignored. On the other hand we aren't discussing Wolf so I won't bother.

I highly recommend we do either Wario or Toon Link as well. Wario I've heard is very popular at tournaments and Toon Link can be incredibly hard for Peach. A Toon Link who is spot on at using projectiles are *****es to fight

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I could contribute a lot for the Wolf match-up...

 

[Praxis]

Dark- grab Wario, don't press any buttons and let him escape. He'll jump out of the grab. Wait for Peach's release animation to end, then dash and upsmash. It'll sweetspot on Wario's fat butt.

Toon Link can be incredibly hard for Peach. A Toon Link who is spot on at using projectiles are *****es to fight

CHIIIIIIIP...

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Wario time. I think DK, Wolf, and Toon Link and Pit will be upcoming.

 

[Niko_K]

Wario is actually a lot easier than most people make it out to be. You have all the range in the world on him, plus turnips to help you space.He should have a tough time getting in. ifurdoinitrite

First of all, POWERSHIELD EVERYTHING YOU CAN. Each powershield will give you a grab. You get free u-tilts because of the grab release. Each grab you pull off will reward you with 18% damage. Also saving all your other attacks for optimal knockback. Racking up damage is good this way so you can save your aerials for killing instead of racking.

I like to play this matchup by out-spacing the Wario with turnips, F-Tilts, and Uairs.

Wario has absolutely no range from underneath him, so you can hit him with multiple uairs. His only option is to airdodge and then you can just chase his airdodges with Fair, Nair or Bair. Never attack Wario when he is biting because no matter what you give him he will get the bite off and it links into a lot of damage at lower percentages. If you see a Wario biting just throw a turnip at his fat ***.

Dair combo's tend not to work so well because of Wario's ridiculous amount of air control. Usually can only get one or two dairs in. Lead into double nair, or uair. Or if you want to mix it up FF straight into U-Tilt.

Watch out for wario's nair. It autocancels and the 2nd hit will hit you right before it autocancels so he usually gets free grabs and farts out of this setup. If you see him attempt at U-Airing you, your dair will always outrange it if you space it properly.

Just play it safe by spacing yourself and keeping him out of range with turnips and f-tilts. Openings will appear to go rambo as well. Powershielding will get you a free grab no matter what so when he gets to higher percents and want to make your attempt at grabbing unpredictable this is the best way to do it.

I'd say the matchup is 60-40 for peach.

 

[Praxis]

I find it rather amusing actually. I used to consider Wario a Peach counter, because his air control lets him outspace her, he can live to utterly obscene percentages if he spaces himself to avoid the usmash (and Fair becomes one of the only things easy to hit him with, making it go stale fast), and while Peach can beat him up and do damage, the fact that he kills faster and lives longer makes it hard.

But ever since the grab release was found, this matchup has been completely reversed. Free kills past 93% (that's the percentage at which you should be grab-releasing into usmash if your usmash is not stale) out of a grab? I'll take that.

Thanks for covering it, Niko. I only fight Wario's on occasion.

 

[slikvik]

peach ***** wario...badly. even without the grab release

 

[hova]

niko is right. but u should use dair to punish obvious dsmash, fsmash or sidestep

also float aerials over his bike and space fair or bair when he's doing his hop around in the air thing. if you're experienced and focused i can't really see a peach losing to a wario of equal skill, or even a slightly better wario for that matter

grab release is icing on the cake and makes this match up olimar level... straight ****

 

[Praxis]

if you're experienced and focused i can't really see a peach losing to a wario of equal skill, or even a slightly better wario for that matter*

* unless they're Futile.

 

[hova]

i'm pretty sure Futile is just an overall better player

i seriously doubt he could beat a peach who was just as good as him. Edreeses probably would have won that one set he posted if he utilized the grab release to kill him early

 

[Little England]

ignore plz

 

[PhantomX]

Edrees tried pretty **** hard to get a grab off on Futile. People seem to overestimate how much effect the grab release actually will have.

A good Wario player can quite easily dair you/your shield and weave out of grab range multiple times, until he either shieldpokes or mixes it up. His bite will beat your grabs if he predicts it, and if he's within the path of your glide toss he will also eat you in the middle of it. W/o getting a grab, it's still really hard for peach to kill Wario, and a good Wario will avoid it at all costs (granted, there are not that many good Warios)... hell, if worse comes to worse, they can easily counterpick stages to help avoid it.

Upair will beat any of Peach's moves if it comes out in time (which means the Wario needs to prop her up). Ftilt actually outspaces her fsmash if spaced correctly, and backair outprioritizes a lot as well. Lastly, Peach is pretty vulnerable when recovering, at least on the same plane. A Wario's fair will come out faster than Peach's fair, or trade hits with it at worst, and I believe it trades hits w/ her backair as well. The fart is also a very viable option when she's offstage. She's also gimpable, though it's harder to gimp her than many other characters. Wario's maneuverability is also great to force the opponent to commit to any move w/ some cooldown or animation time, and then diving in to punish, and peach has her fair share of those.

Unfortunately for us, dair beats most of Wario's moves and she can combo him fairly well, racking up damage quickly as was stated before. Good prediction can also net you an uptilt or upsmash on dair attempts, and those hurt.

I used to say it was 60:40, but with the grab release now leading to some easy kills once in a while, I'd say the matchup is about even.

 

[Praxis]

i'm pretty sure Futile is just an overall better player

i seriously doubt he could beat a peach who was just as good as him. Edreeses probably would have won that one set he posted if he utilized the grab release to kill him early

Edrees was trying to get a grab the entire match. Futile didn't let him.

I used to say it was 60:40, but with the grab release now leading to some easy kills once in a while, I'd say the matchup is about even.

Same here, the grab release really changed the matchup. It used to be a matter of Peach landing strong combos but being unable to kill him, but the grab release gives her a kill method.

I dunno if she has the advantage, but I'd say even or slight Peach advantage.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

futile might be a better player, but then again, its the best peach against the best wario, so its 2 players at the top of their characters metagame, and wario wins

 

[EdreesesPieces]

i'm pretty sure Futile is just an overall better player

i seriously doubt he could beat a peach who was just as good as him. Edreeses probably would have won that one set he posted if he utilized the grab release to kill him early

Incorrect. I grab released him in future sets and Wario is heavy enough that a fresh upsmash at 100% (after the upsmash he as at 120%) didn't kill him. Futile is also incredibly hard to grab. It's like saying that Metaknight is easy for peach because you can just forward air him off the stage easily and kill him at 90%. It's possible but trust me, he is ridiculously hard to grab.

I agree with Peach advantage 55 to 45, but you guys have no idea how hard it is to grab a great Wario player. I played Futile at Axis and in one match I was trying to get grabs and I kept eating forward smashes 20% each because of it so I decided to stop taking the bait. (He baits a lot for the attempted grabs because he knows you want them) Our set at Axis was a lot closer though, went to match 3/3 last stock. The key component you guys are missing is that Wario can kill you at low percentage as well, with that fart. If you miss a grab he will nail you with it, or a forward smash. It's not wise to use anything laggy at all against Wario. The reason I can get matches off him now though is mainly because I have learned his style so I know what stages to counterpick better. Stages I suggest against Wario are Luigi's Mansion and Castle Siege.

When I play other Wario's I kill them 3 times with 3 release grabs. But the highest level of Wario has many tools to avoid being grabbed.

Futile is a better player but he only slightly beats me, it's always last stock high percentage. That to me shows that Peach is at a small advantage. She has a small advantage, and its slight enough that if Wario player is better than the Peach player he'll probably still win.

 

[Praxis]

Futile is a better player but he only slightly beats me, it's always last stock high percentage. That to me shows that Peach is at a small advantage. She has a small advantage, and its slight enough that if Wario player is better than the Peach player he'll probably still win.

That's my argument for Peach having the advantage on Snake, because DSF doesn't two stock me, but nooooo, that didn't fly at all.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

'Cuz a money match is not as valid as a tournament match.

 

[Praxis]

'Cuz a money match is not as valid as a tournament match.

You dare use logic on the internet??

 

[PhantomX]

For the record, I'm a well seasoned Wario main, and quite adept at avoiding grabs... so I hope my input receives some consideration. If not, oh well, better for us, b/c we'll be underestimated ^_^

 

[itsthebigfoot]

also, to niko k saying wario has a tough time getting in, snake, rob, and falco have problems camping him, he is extraordinarily hard to camp, especially because his wheelie plows through almost all projectiles, including your turnips (spaced ftilts too)

also, that bit on powershielding, bad idea, you can't powershield all of his dair, which means you'll be trapped in your shield. from my experience against futile and plan 9, if you shield, he gets a free bite, same with spotdodges, rolls, and some attacks. as for you grabbing wario, good luck, dedede and dk have problems grabbing wario, and they have the longest nontether grab ranges out there, they can even tick-grab with their jabs (and dededes nair) its still really freaking hard.

also, you didn't even mention warios fastfall uair shenanigans, those hurt a lot

 

[Dark.Pch]

I am gonna base this on my experience against the 2 warios that beat me. Though one of them I beat one time in a set. (delfino for the win)

Wario is hard to hit while he is in the air. His air speed going back and fourth is quick. So Floating so much won't get you anywhere cause you can't hit him that well. If anything he wont be hitting you so much nether. So the match wont go anywhere. Which also makes it hard to approach wario.

Because of how Wario loves to pressure in the air, or start is **** from there, he is hard to grab. And is good at spacing. So I really dont depend on my grabs here. And chaseing Wario in the air is not a good idea nether. Onlu Good moves you have for him in the air is your Bair and Nair. I use Bair if I need to beat his range. or am coming at him from a distance. And N-air when I am close to him.

His Dair is good on you cause it has good priority, good for pressure and he can space it to a Fsmash or do anything he wants after.

Wario does not die so well. So I worry about ranking up damage on him, use lots of turnips, and get some damage of your grabs then grab realese to upsmash.

I recommend good ground game and not be in the air so much. bait his moves alot, let him throw the first punch. the typical warios will mostlt Dair to:

- sidestep (cause they wanna wait for you to try and grab them mostly)>attack/grab

- Fsmash

- Roll

Get losts of jabs on him. Bait wario alot. Don't be agressive on him. His grabs are quick. Space all your moves. limit your air game.