Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[EdreesesPieces]

ALSO, and this one is good. Peach can pick up bananas with NO LAG with an auto-floated auto-cancelled aerial. So, instead of grabbing a turnip on the ground with a dash attack, you can run, auto-float, and immediately fall out of it with a dair or fair and you get no lag. Even if it's Diddy's banana on the ground, it won't trip you if you're floating.

OMG you are my god. I didn't know this and this I feel will completely change the matchup for me. Ground floating = no tripping? Get ***** diddy. My problem was I'd get hit by hsi quick/high priority aerials if I floated, and on the ground I'd be really worried about bananas. Even working around them I felt like he was in control, even if I won the matchup I was playing to his terms. I like to play on my own terms, and this will let me. I don't see any of his ground attacks beating forward and neutral airs. Suweeeet. Gotta test this.

 

[Dark.Pch]

OMG............Villi I love you.........NinjaLink come see me!!! Ha ha ha!

 

[Villi]

OMG you are my god. I didn't know this and this I feel will completely change the matchup for me. Ground floating = no tripping? Get ***** diddy. My problem was I'd get hit by hsi quick/high priority aerials if I floated, and on the ground I'd be really worried about bananas. Even working around them I felt like he was in control, even if I won the matchup I was playing to his terms. I like to play on my own terms, and this will let me. I don't see any of his ground attacks beating forward and neutral airs. Suweeeet. Gotta test this.

Yes, you can take advantage of his bananas as good as or better than he can in many ways. I don't know if this is what you meant when you were talking about auto-floated nairs/fairs, but you actually have the leeway to let your fair's hitbox come out and auto-cancel and STILL pick up the banana. xD

About that usmash set-up... Training mode is registering it as 3 consecutive hits. Cause what happens is you dthrow a banana passed him, push him toward the banana that bounced off of him, which hits his foot, and at that moment you usmash. I don't think it's escapable if done correctly.

Edit: Aww, feeling the love. <3

 

[BurtonEarny]

Yes, you can take advantage of his bananas as good as or better than he can in many ways. I don't know if this is what you meant when you were talking about auto-floated nairs/fairs, but you actually have the leeway to let your fair's hitbox come out and auto-cancel and STILL pick up the banana. xD

About that usmash set-up... Training mode is registering it as 3 consecutive hits. Cause what happens is you dthrow a banana passed him, push him toward the banana that bounced off of him, which hits his foot, and at that moment you usmash. I don't think it's escapable if done correctly.

Edit: Aww, feeling the love. <3

Villi you have been so helpful with this discussion... if I ever met you I'd buy you a puppy.

seriously though, I think that knowing these things certainly points to peach having a better matchup than previously thought by some peach mains... myself included.

 

[Villi]

Villi you have been so helpful with this discussion... if I ever met you I'd buy you a puppy.

seriously though, I think that knowing these things certainly points to peach having a better matchup than previously thought by some peach mains... myself included.

^^ I like puppies. And yeah, the matchup doesn't seem so bad to me either, anymore. I played Diddy all kinds of wrong before seeing Dark.Pch's vid and learning these tricks.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

So I've been practicing with Banana's in training mode and I feel a lot more confident about this matchup, especially catching them with that ground float. Too **** awesome, esp when you ground float and don't land you do the aerials, not worry about his bananas and when you feel like it just land and catch them.

I also realized you can Peach bomber as soon as he trips on the banana and he can't avoid it.

 

[Gea]

Basically if you have a solid nanner game its probably slightly in Peach's favor.

 

[P.O.P.]

do u have a video or anything like that to show us an example of this naner turnip banana trick?

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

haha just curious edresses if your a mod can't you stick your own thread?

 

[Villi]

do u have a video or anything like that to show us an example of this naner turnip banana trick?

I would... but in practice it's fairly useless. Frankly, Diddy has an easier time escaping it than you do trying not to screw up the timing and spacing. Glide tossing a banana into a smash or an over b is much simpler and more rewarding.

Just something I noticed while playing my friend's Diddy is that I had a much easier time catching his bananas in the air with bairs (while facing the banana) than anything else. The bananas he throws into the air after his down b are hard to catch without getting hit first, but I think Peach moving backwards as she bairs separates her from the banana's hitbox while she can still grab it.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Wait....people DIDN'T know you couldn't trip on a banana whilst ground floating??? I thought everyone knew this ><

Just remember not to ground float everywhere as Diddy can very easily Glide Toss a banana in your face because you're on the ground

Oh and I know this isn't Snake but the same rules apply for his Down Smash mine. You can ground float over that and it won't explode

 

[Villi]

Wait....people DIDN'T know you couldn't trip on a banana whilst ground floating??? I thought everyone knew this ><

Just remember not to ground float everywhere as Diddy can very easily Glide Toss a banana in your face because you're on the ground

Oh and I know this isn't Snake but the same rules apply for his Down Smash mine. You can ground float over that and it won't explode

You can still shield fairly quickly out of a ground float, but if you get it by a banana in the air, you don't trip at least.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

haha just curious edresses if your a mod can't you stick your own thread?

I don't mod the Peach forums.

 

[Steel]

we're talking about you k?

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191608

 

[deepseadiva]

So I think it's about time we switch discussion. I'd say 60-40 Peach.

Looks like all have to do is grab those bananas and float more than usual.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Sorry about the delay i've been at axis and busy. will update tomorrow probably with a 55-45 adv to peach

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

55-45? Sounds alright I guess...who's it gonna be next?

 

[P.O.P.]

i would like to suggest ike or zss.

 

[Mmac]

I want to suggest Yoshi >_>

 

[exidid]

I vote for Toon Link.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I want to suggest Yoshi >_>

....

Come on man, the suspense is killing me.


I vote for either Lucario or Toon Link. Or Bowser who is clearly better than us

 

[Niko_K]

Covering yoshi would be a cool thing to do, its out of the ordinary and gets him out of the way. He's deceiving I swear.

 

[Gea]

I can put plenty of input into Yoshi or Lucario.

 

[deepseadiva]

Yeah, Yoshi would be actually pretty convenient as of now. I vote Yoshi too!

Or Bowser who is clearly better than us

Lolz.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

LOL I'm so doing Bowser. I'm not sure what to do, I can only do 80% combos on him..after that, I'm not sure how my best killing move having the range advantage on all his moves can do much to kill him. I guess we'll go with Yoshi since you guys want it haha.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You should pick characters that are used alot
then work your way down to the least. So when Peach players go to the tournaments, they are ready for the most common thing to see.

 

[Morrigan]

I say Wario.

 

[deepseadiva]

You want us to be completly unprepared for the Yoshi threat until around 20+ weeks from now?
Prepare for the unexpected DP! PREPARE.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You have a bigger chance seeing characters like wario than someone like Yoshi. When you enter tournaments you decided what you wanna risk more.

 

[Villi]

Both of them can eat you alive! :bites fingernails:

Yoshi can be pretty devatating if you're not prepared ,though. Eggs, bairs, super armor, insane spike range. Grab release to spike o____o Be careful of that one.

Wario is also bad and more common. I would go with this, but my matchup knowledge is more shakey.

 

[deepseadiva]

I actually have a 100% chance of seeing a Yoshi at my next tournament - and they're quite tough. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, a match-up analysis would help immensely.

And if nothing else, it would be great to break from routine every once in awhile. Are we really going to go down the tier list one by one? That's really stale...

 

[BurtonEarny]

I say Wario.

Doesn't the grab release up smash help alot in this mathcup? It doesn't bother me either way who we discuss. I dont think yoshi will ever be appreciated fully until/ if the dr becomes more widely used, as it is not many people can do the dam* thing and make it useful.(or are they giving up on it being useful... where do they stand on that anyway)*rushes of to spy on investigate the yoshi boards*
DR- dragonic reverse to the less knowledgeable folk. Basically, yoshi can wavdash if you jump, double jump, and then hit an arial and direction all in one or maybe a few more frames.(similar to the wingdash pit can do)

 

[Gea]

Let's do Yoshi anyways. :D I agree, shake things up a bit.

First off, two things are are important in this matchup:

eggs and tongue.

Eggs: If you are far away from Yoshi, simply DON'T FLOAT. Just walk towards him and powershield the eggs. They aren't hard to powershield consistently. Practice this if you must. When you get to a certain point where you can punish the next egg thrown (or they will try to rush down for a grab or the like) get ready. If they throw the egg, its a free dash attack or grab which can lead into a world of hurt for Yoshi.

If they do anything else, float. Float a bit higher than his head, tongue has deceptive vert reach. There. You've safely approached yoshi yourself.

As for Grabs... Peach has an easier time with them if she's careful. Never chase a yoshi on the ground and if they dash away from you, float. In fact, if you are close enough where they can grab, its almost always better to be floating.

This is really just very generic information, but SCREW IT I'M KICKING OFF THE NEXT TOPIC, YOSHI. DISCUSS.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Sorry save it for later. I think Dark peach is right. Gotta focus on the matchups to help us. I think the next most common good characters are Lucario and Wario. We'll see tomorrow morning.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

only because you said please ;P

*stick*

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

FINALLY. Thank you Mr mod.

Wario and Lucario seem like a good idea. I don't have so much trouble with Wario's (I haven't really fought many though) but Lucario...I have tons of difficulty fighting Lucario >< him and Pit are by far my worst match ups

Yoshi sounds good to me But what about Bowser?!?! He has teh ph1re peeps. He can cook our Turnips! Oh noes!

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I'm not sure what happened to the original post of the thread, but all the quotes have dissapeared. Sigh. I'll work on fixing those later...ahhhh. Anyway onto Lucario. Sorry its a waste of time to work on yoshi, hes a good character but there aren't many out there its a waste for now.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I ruddy hate fighting Lucario. They will Fair you to death. He outranges you, out projectile spams you and his grabs will **** you. His floatiness and excellent aerial game make him horribly difficult to combo and making good use of your aerial game here is a nightmare

 

[Gea]

Its not that bad of a matchup, honestly. I probably get more lucario practice than anything else. First, a few common things to watch for.

- Fsmash. The BEST way to avoid this is floating so that your FEET are level with Lucario's HEAD while he's standing. This still allows you to do aerials in an agressive fashion without having to worry about it. In fact, fsmash, bair, and auraspheres are really the only ways he's going to consistently kill you, so LEARN THE HITBOX. It is invisible in some parts (the tip and above it slightly) and he WILL kill you with it fairly easily.

-Aurasphere. It gets BIG when he gets at high %s. You can shield it, toad it, dair it if its slighty under you (it will allow you to go through it kinda, I don't suggest this), ftilt small ones, or like I do, just take the time to either doublejump over it and get ready to aerial (fair is great here) or float. If he fires it high, just land and react. The only time aurasphere should REALLY give you problems is when you are recovering. This is one of two matches I can think of off of the top of my head that I really stress recovering LOW (marth being the other). Get below the edge and float under it. Low enough that he can't just dair you before you even up + B. then umbrella to sweetspot the edge and you'll be fine.

-Dair. Lucarios generally LOVE to dair the shield. Dair hits twice and they will dair multiple times if you sit in your shield. Just jump out and nair between them. Works every time. If they try to come down with dair, be patient and utilt them out of it. Try to scare them into airdodging before you try utilting (or wait until they are close enough to dair). Don't chase them into the air under them except as a mix up. Almost always I wait on the ground after they get hit into the air, but very rarely I QUICKLY double jump into an uair to keep them on their toes. Do this SPARINGLY and it will work.

Oh, and you can DI out of the second hit into the air. Just smash DI down and away. Works maybe 60% of the time for me.

- Jabs. They have a GREAT jab game and will jab jab grab or jab jab walk away walk back grab. Expect this. You'll prefer all three jabs to a grab. Also if they do all three jabs, DI AWAY from them. If you DI towards them they can start fairing. I'm pretty sure your second jab has more range than his. Also his grab range isn't that good, so you can try dtilt or pivtot fsmash if they walk away a bit after two jabs.

- Killing. Killing a lucario off of the blastzone without usmash is hard because they have one of the best (second best, thrid best? something like that) momentum slowdowns after getting hit in the game. Like if they DI up towards the corner they can live for a deceptively LONG time. Luckily, their recovery sucks. It does no damage so be agressive with turnips and sitting on the edge. If they up +B below you, remember that they can wallcling so GET OFF the edge before you get hit off of it. If you still have a float you can just dair over the edge when they wallcling.

Fair does an okay job of killing Lucario, but SAVE THIS HO when he gets to higher %s. Fair is SO useful against his own fairs (dj back retreating fairs own his soul) but it also REALLY sets up for an easy edgehog at higher %s. So keep this in mind.

While its a terrible idea to be under a Lucario when he is on a platform above you (He can drop through and dair, though you can challenge with utilt, it just depends on who is there first) certain stages have low paltforms, like Kanto or Lylat. You can do a running usmash for kills. Other than that, just try to squeeze them in. You crouch when charging usmash, so if you are fearless about his dair, you can try slipping under it then owning his feet.

When he does fairs, DI AWAY. Even if you are off of the edge. Think of it like Marth. Up and away keeps the combos at bay. Eating two fairs is better than three and then a nair while he sets up for an edgeguard. After he nairs he has to land basically. It has ALOT of cooldown in the air, but cancels when he lands. His bair has more range than you'd think, but it does have startup.

Oh yeah, and when he's below 50% and you aren't at like 150%, be more fearless. He probably can't kill you and he has less proirity. Just BE careful because he can combo better at that %.

 

[Praxis]

Lucario's a fun one- my rival plays Lucario. I beat him usually, but I still feel the matchup is in Lucario's favor- I just know it well.

For one thing, save yourself the trouble and don't go for the complex Dair combos. Save those for Snake or the space animals and heavyweights. Lucario's too slippery.

In the air, retreating C-sticked Fairs are your best friend. Lucario's will usually try to get you in Fair combos. Retreating and fairing nukes this. If he does land a Fair, you can break the combo with a Nair sometimes. DI away from him and try to nair.

Toad works wonders, but you have to be cautious. Missing a toad can give him a free opportunity for a fully charged aura sphere.

Unfortunately, you won't be landing a lot of usmashes. One of Lucario's nicest kill moves is his Dair, and it outranges your usmash- he will usually land Dair if you're trying to usmash. However, Peach's utilt completely destroys his Dair!

If Lucario's coming in from above, utilt him. NOTE- if Lucario uses the dair EARLY so that your utilt MISSES, he can fast fall and dair you again before you can utilt him again. If you miss a utilt, SHIELD his second dair. Only a Lucario that knows the matchup will use the "dair early" trick. In fact, Shielding Lucario's Dairs is an excellent way to punish it.


Don't go for too many close range attacks like grabs, because Lucario's jabs are one of his best combo starters. However, Peach's jab-to-grab trick works pretty well against him

The trick to beating Lucario, however, is killing him early. At low %, Lucario has no killing power, and at high %, he becomes far more powerful. Kill him early on the first stock, and you will probably win the set since you can beat the crap out of him on the next stock before he gets to killing strength.

The instant you get Lucario offstage, rain turnips on him, then grab the ledge. If you land a turnip on him offstage, you will probably land a kill. Since his up-B does no damage and the turnip will mess up his second jump, you can safely just grab the ledge and hold it.

Also, Nair is an incredibly good punishment move on him. You can land it in between his Dairs, to punish any attack he lands on your shield, or to punish his fast up-B.

If you're offstage, watch out for his Bair. It can kill you.

Also, learn to deal with his Fsmash. Generally, once Lucario passes 100-120%, he will start spamming fsmash because it becomes really powerful at that point. It lasts deceptively long, and his lag disappears really quick so punishing it with a Fair takes really close timing and might not even be worth the risk.

When he has under 50% damage, be fearless and beat the crap out of him. When he passes 100%, be defensive but look for key moments to land kill moves.