Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[BoTastic!]

So we come across to a neutral?
5-5?

umm Falco's not that easy. =/

 

[Dark.Pch]

Well if its not drama regaurding me, then I dont know what was up with the insult.

People listen to me cause the advice I give is good and down to the wire detail. You dont play Peach. I do, so I know more about Peach then you do, And I dont wanna hear "but I play Niko and etc."

If you dont have anything to back up what you say then what you post means nothing. I really dont care how many enemies I have here in in this case, you side with Niko case your friends or w/e. I am use to this and see it alot. So dont bother me.

But if something is not right, I dont care who you are, I will correct you on it. and when it comes to my own character I will correct people on mistakes. We are here to learn match ups and help. Baby advice is not gonna get people anywhere in here. Really against smart people. I will not baby anyone with advice. I am hardcore with it. And it will help people step up thier game much better. You take this as you see it. Any more insults to me and such because (insert reason here) PM me the insults or instant message me the insults. Dont do it here. I wont even insult you back. Waste of time.

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Now that I got that out of the way. I'm think this fight is 50-50 now that I thought more about it. The main thing here with Falco is his lasers. And smart falcos will know when to laser you. As edresse said. Peachs best quality in this game is her air game. and that gets taken away. So a solid ground game is needed here.

Falco can also screw you over when recovering. and put you in a position where he can set you up for a kill. So save you jump when you are sent flying. and if you have too, eat a few lasers will falling. Use F-B and toad to get some feet closer to the stage. When you thing you need to use your second jump, use it and float back to the stage. Save your jumps.

Or if you can, If your really high, F-B or even toad back to the stage so you end up over it. Then go on about landing. falco cant really snip you well with his laser. and he is not all that quick in the air.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys make it sound like its nothing. Like you can just pull this off so easy against smart people who know thier stuff.

Is this how you people play Peach. All about the combos and tricks to get your wins? Its that simple now? Seriously. What I just read is average material. average players. decent at best. I wanna see you do this so easy to high ranked falcos.

it wont be so easy but it isnt really hard to fight falco, hes the least of peachs worries. straight up it just soudns like you need to work on the matchup. cause it's basically even./

 

[BoTastic!]

Well, i never use Peach against Falco (I use Mario against him) so i wouldn't know, so i guess im going with Dark Pch's advice, since he has experience in this match up. Even though.. if a Falco begins to cope with what your doing i think the match up becomes 40:60 in Falco's favor.

it wont be so easy but it isnt really hard to fight falco, hes the least of peachs worries. straight up it just soudns like you need to work on the matchup. cause it's basically even

When you face a character who negates one of your general and best strategies, that match up becomes diffcult.

 

[Dark.Pch]

it wont be so easy but it isnt really hard to fight falco, hes the least of peachs worries. straight up it just soudns like you need to work on the matchup. cause it's basically even./

My thing is, if the Falco has a good camping game, some of Peaches best qualities are limited or shut down

- They can laser to reflector. other way for falco to space and eat the shield. Hard to get inside.

-Limited to no glide toss

- Limited to no air set ups.

- Limited turnips.

Falco is probably the best camper in the game. (dont quote me on that, just my opinion) If not, he is one of the best campers. With no lag on him landing when he lasers, he can do ANYTHING that he wants right after. Which can also increase his pressure and spacing game.

 

[Deleted member]

bo x7 do you know how ridiculous you sound?

"i dont have much experience fighting falcos with peach so i'm going to go ahead and post advice on fighting falco vs peach"

you dont know teh matchup, you admitted yourself you don't know it. i play falcos all the **** time and trust me it's even

and how does falco negate peachs approach? learn the matchup bro.

dark pch niko and i have already posted ways to avoid the laser BS, it's not that difficult to get around

 

[Dark.Pch]

It not just about his lasers.

I even said in my first post about falco that PS'ing is the way to go.

Does not change the fact that Falco, can still limit you. You cant just cant freely pick up turnips, Glide toss etc. All of Peachs set ups are not easy to just do anymore. Cause you have to power shield and dodge lasers to get close.

Do you not get what I am telling you. Even if you are PS and w/e to get pass the lasers, You are no longer free to set stuff up and use your air game unless you are inside Falco. You know how with others you can set up air tatics and turnips from deep to close in on them? Cant do that against good falcos

 

[PKNintendo]

Again. Peach is even against Falco.

 

[hova]

i agree with what dark pch is saying, just not the overall advantage thing. i definitely thing the advantage is for peach

i never approach with float unless i'm playing DDD so i guess the lasers don't really make me change my game

i love mixing up my ground and air game and try to stay on top of my opponent as much as possible

so lasers are annoying, but most of falco's game is weak against peach. he wins from a distance, but peach wins with combos, quickness, edgeguard, and even setting up kill moves

i mean i rarely think that in depth about smash so i can't really breakdown details like drk pch. i'm more on that 'don't get hit' tip

 

[BoTastic!]

bo x7 do you know how ridiculous you sound?

"i dont have much experience fighting falcos with peach so i'm going to go ahead and post advice on fighting falco vs peach"

you dont know teh matchup, you admitted yourself you don't know it. i play falcos all the **** time and trust me it's even

and how does falco negate peachs approach? learn the matchup bro.

dark pch niko and i have already posted ways to avoid the laser BS, it's not that difficult to get around

How do i sound rediculous? Its only common sense... And if you read my post right you'll know that I said that he Negates her common strategy not approach.. >_> Dark Pch pointed out that you can't even float to him or use Turniops like you normally can because of Falco's laser. Also I'm not giving advice . I never did.

 

[TigerWoods]

Can we keep this discussion objective please? 0.0
This is what the other boards mean by "the peach boards are overly dramatic." XD

anyway the lazers are as someone said earlier a way for falcos to space themselves and use their other more damaging moves, because the lazers themselves aren't to big of a worry.. they do 3 damage....

 

[-Mars-]

Can we keep this discussion objective please? 0.0
This is what the other boards mean by "the peach boards are overly dramatic." XD

anyway the lazers are as someone said earlier a way for falcos to space themselves and use their other more damaging moves, because the lazers themselves aren't to big of a worry.. they do 3 damage....

The lasers also prevent you from approaching because they stop momentum and believe it or not that 3% damage adds up over time.

 

[TigerWoods]

Oh yes i know what you mean.. the stopping momentum is what i meant by spacing...

3 damage will build up over time, however its not really too hard getting around the lazer, and they dont kill... the real threat is a falco getting his hands on you...but he can use the lazer to do so...im really bad at explaining things...

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Can someone teach me strategies that work on falco? Honestly I see all this talk , but all people are posting are things Peach can do to get by and avoid what falco is doing. What can peach do to put the pressure on, kill, and combo him? Other than chain grab I haven't really seen much substance. When most of the discussion is on things Peach can do to avoid Falco, things Peach can do to get by Falco. it makes it sounds like she's playing to his game and he's in the advantageous situation. Yes, I get it, you can find a way to avoid the lasers. So what now? What can she do, this ovbiously has to be so good that it makes up for the fact that Falco has the advantage on the approach.

Example

LIST A : Things Falco has on Peach:

-He makes her approach with lasers. She has to work around him.
-Turnips can be reflected with ease. her glide toss approach is rendered extremely situational
-He can spike her recovery and actually punish it compared to most of the cast
-Limits the use of her float
-A grab leads to gauranteed percentage unless at really high percents

LIST B: Things Peach has on Falco

-Ability to edgeguard him well
-Chaingrab to damage from 0 to about 40%

And you're telling me Peach has the advantage? There definitely has to be more in List B for that to be believable to me. Feel free to add into that list B, I'd really love to know. Here to learn.

 

[Deleted member]

Edrees don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to blow the guy off. I agreed with a lot of what you said and even offered a killer edgeguard technique.

Now, unless you're playing on FD, most of the neutrals have platforms which you can work with to avoiding the lasers. In fact, most of what Dark Pch was talking about I imagined only happening on FD, which is a lot harder to play on against Falco because of what he posted.

That, and Jungle Japes, because of obvi reasons. But anyway:

Airdodges, Powershields, platform tricksies, toad, etc, are all fine ways of getting around the lasers. Or you can do as M2K does in Melee and just be really good at jumping in between them, which isn't too hard seeing as how the first shouldnt hit you. Falco can do some lame shiat by spamming lasers then doing forward B after it, but even that isn't that bad if you see it coming.

I dunno man, the only thing that bothers me about hte matchup is the grab->boost smash at 0%, and the other stuff he can do to peach at low %s. But that's it. You can edgeguard him better than most other characters, you can upsmash his forward b, you can ledge hog his up b, you can ground float bair his forward b, etc. In fact falco's forward b is one of the only moves he has that makes me wanna kill myself because of its priority. That's why bomber is such a boon because it ***** it.

Peach has one approach but with mixups and with platforms the battles will get up close. If you're getting camped really hard you should avoid playing on FD vs Falco, or just learn how to dodge the lasers. It's not like these lasers are unstoppable. They were good in melee and are good in brawl - and in melee, I learned how to power shield like nearly 1/3 lasers. In brawl, I just airdodge / roll / toad / PS them.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'm not really the combo type of person. Nor do I rely on them much.The average Peach combos work on him. I say average cause its mostly what I see alot from Peach players. The dairs x2 or x3 to w/e. So I wont get into that.

I'll get at spacing and pressure on falco. If you can space in front of falco, they you are good on the pressure. He does not have a fast attack from the from that you can quickly abuse you out of the shield. The Fair is a lil risky since it lags when landing. His Nair is Fast but with good spacing he cant get to you that quick out of the shield.

Space your Dairs. When I say space, I mean move away from the enemy when the Dairs are about to finish up.Then land to the next quick thing you can do:

- Jabs (recomended)
- Ftilt
- Dsmash ( Eh, depends)
- If your quick enough, grab
- Nair
- FC>Nair
- Reverse FC> Bair
- Reverse Bair

Now with all of this I just gave, Mix and match it for pressure. If you have a turnip in your hand. this adds to a lil more pressure.

Now you can space your Dair behind him, but this has to be well done and fast reaction cause Falco's bair is quick. Now you can do the same things as if you space Dairs in front of falco. Just remember Falco has speed behind him.

One good way I just thought of to edge guard falco, is if you see him Up-B to the stage, go in there and told him of you can. If you know your enemy well, you can do this while you hang on the edge. tap down. as soon as you do it, use your jump right away. Tap the stick in the oppisite direction you are looking and toad. This can be a lil risky so I would not recommend this.......actually this is more of the flashy type so Idk. But if he is off the stage and you see him Up-B, you can toad him and he is done, since his recovery sucks.

 

[BurtonEarny]

Why does every thread with nkio and dark.pch have to be an arguement? You are both good, say your piece and dont comment on the others because it always degenerates into a flame war. And does Pyrnight really even have a reason to comment, when he instigates arguements on the peach boards ALL the time. (Remember who trolled Niko's account) Back to what matters: I really dont think that the match is easy and I dont like the matchup at all, so I tend to agree with edress and dark.pch

 

[goodkid]

The best way to produce accurate results & examine the Falco/Peach match-up & any match-up in general is to compare/contrast inherent abilities:

1. Weight
2. Special Attributes
3. KO Potential/Edgeguarding
4. Recovery

Begins with 50/50, then adjusts

1. Weight
Falco & Peach are nearly equal in weight, so weight will not factor into KO ability.

Match still 50/50

2. Special Attributes

~Falco
*Lasers
*Reflector
*Dair & Side-B spike
*Boost-UpSmash
*Chaingrabs(Doesn't work on Peach)

~Peach
*Floating Abilities
*Turnips
*Counter(Toad)
*Top-tier combo ability

-Falco's lasers counter peach's best attribute, by limiting Peach's floating & her glide-toss turnip approach. Turnips will be a lot harder to hit with because they can be reflected.

-The best strategy for using turnips in this match-up is to toss them vertically to create a wall to lead in to other attacks. Another strategy is to fake-out Falco into using the reflector by tossing a turnip at him, then punishing the lag.

Match-up
+ 5 Falco -- 5 Peach = Falco 55/45 Peach

3. KO Potential/Edgeguarding

~Falco
*Above Average KO Ability
Kill Moves (0-150%)
-All Smashes
-Uair, Bair, & Dair(Spike)
-Side B(Meteor Spike)
*Average Edge-guarding ability(lasers, bair)

~Peach
*Below-Average KO Ability
Kill Moves(0-150%)
-Forward & Up Smash
-Fair, Bair, Uair, Nair
-Stitch-Face Turnip & Special Items(Beam-Sword, BoMb-Omb)


Match-up
+5 Falco --5 Peach = Falco 60/40 Peach

4. Recovery

~Falco
*Firebird(Vertical Distance)
*Falco Phantasm(Horizontal Distance)

~Peach
*Floating(Horizontal distance)
*Peach Bomber(Horizontal distance)
*Parasol(Vertical distance)

The properties of both character's recovery is the same, but Peach's is much better with floating & Parasol. Falco's Up-B recovery is easy to gimp, so Peach has much better advantage this time. + 5 Peach

Final Match-up
--5 Falco + 5 Peach = 55 Falco/45 Peach

 

[Deleted member]

I've never seen such an arbitrary scoring system. Lmao.

 

[BoTastic!]

The best way to produce accurate results & examine the Falco/Peach match-up & any match-up in general is to compare/contrast inherent abilities:

1. Weight
2. Special Attributes
3. KO Potential/Edgeguarding
4. Recovery

Begins with 50/50, then adjusts

1. Weight
Falco & Peach are nearly equal in weight, so weight will not factor into KO ability.

Match still 50/50

2. Special Attributes

~Falco
*Lasers
*Reflector
*Dair & Side-B spike
*Boost-UpSmash
*Chaingrabs(Doesn't work on Peach)

~Peach
*Floating Abilities
*Turnips
*Counter(Toad)
*Top-tier combo ability

-Falco's lasers counter peach's best attribute, by limiting Peach's floating & glide-toss turnip approach. Turnips will be a lot harder to hit with because they can be reflected.

-The best strategy for using turnips in this match-up is to toss them vertically to create a wall to lead in to other attacks. Another strategy is to fake-out Falco into using the reflector by tossing a turnip at him, then punishing the lag.

Match-up
+ 5 Falco -- 5 Peach = Falco 55/45 Peach

3. KO Potential/Edgeguarding

~Falco
*Above Average KO Ability
Kill Moves (0-150%)
-All Smashes
-Uair, Bair, & Dair(Spike)
-Side B(Meteor Spike)
*Average Edge-guarding ability(lasers, bair)

~Peach
*Average KO Ability
Kill Moves(0-150%)
-Forward & Up Smash
-Fair, Bair, Uair, Nair
-Stitch-Face Turnip & Special Items(Beam-Sword, BoMb-Omb)


Match-up
+5 Falco --5 Peach = Falco 60/40 Peach

Not done yet, if anyone wants to finish or add more go ahead.

wow thats pretty cool lol.

 

[White-Peach]

the simple fact that people are considering/supporting the idea that falco's reflector renders peach's float useless makes me believe that these people should just quit peach and use another character~ or stop spending so much time on the forums and actually play the game. Anyone can snipe you out of the float if you're stupid enough to use it as an approach. Go to FD and float from one side to the other. Now walk from one side to the other. Pitiful speed, and easily punished.

The answer? Dont be stupid Peach players. The float as a movement tool is primarily useful for recovery, and in brawl, DAir combos. Thats really about all you do just hanging in the air. But when you manipulate the float to serve you as a spacing and height-adjusting tool for your aerials you really begin to open up Peach's bag of tricks. Other characters are primarily limited to being able to use their aerials to basic short hops, full jumps, and double jumps. Peach can can do all of that, and float anywhere inbetween, and remain afloat anytime. It makes her aerials less predictable and punishable by a mechanic that has nothing to do with the attack itself. You can force the frames where aerials autocancel by adjusting with the float. Abusing the float and Peach's fast, high-priority attacks turns her into a vicious machine.

Yall started a rant His reflector only shuts down floating if you suck with Peach, otherwise its a minor annoyance. Jeeze.

 

[Dark.Pch]

the simple fact that people are considering/supporting the idea that falco's reflector renders peach's float useless makes me believe that these people should just quit peach and use another character~ or stop spending so much time on the forums and actually play the game. Anyone can snipe you out of the float if you're stupid enough to use it as an approach. Go to FD and float from one side to the other. Now walk from one side to the other. Pitiful speed, and easily punished.

The answer? Dont be stupid Peach players. The float as a movement tool is primarily useful for recovery, and in brawl, DAir combos. Thats really about all you do just hanging in the air. But when you manipulate the float to serve you as a spacing and height-adjusting tool for your aerials you really begin to open up Peach's bag of tricks. Other characters are primarily limited to being able to use their aerials to basic short hops, full jumps, and double jumps. Peach can can do all of that, and float anywhere inbetween, and remain afloat anytime. It makes her aerials less predictable and punishable by a mechanic that has nothing to do with the attack itself. You can force the frames where aerials autocancel by adjusting with the float. Abusing the float and Peach's fast, high-priority attacks turns her into a vicious machine.

Yall started a rant His reflector only shuts down floating if you suck with Peach, otherwise its a minor annoyance. Jeeze.

Just what are you getting at? Cause to me this does not make any sense and is really not needed.

 

[Peachkid]

Ok im spilling my 2 cents on the match up. probably what i say has been mentioned.


alot of the time peach can rely on vertical spacing to get right above her opponent so she can hit them but they cant. falco's lasers make this option 10x harder, so it almost removes her vertical spacing game thus rendering her to fighting on the ground, and to add to that his reflector takes care of peach's turnip game, hindering her range game. if a aerial is needed the best option is to ground float, sometimes if a falco shoots to soon after jumping he will just miss peach and she has a semi good opening to Nair or Bair (or what ever the situation requires) moves like dsmash and dtilt are good here cause you can sometimes duck the lasers and get a few hits in. im gonna put some more stuff later.


but this last word goes to niko and dark pch.

please stop this constant debate. its pointless to attack each other when we are trying to discuss ways to help the character we all share to win matches. i think its time to offer an olive branch, and end these collection of squabbles. you dont have to like eachother but dont argue please i hate to see my friends argue so much.

so im asking, please just end it here....

 

[Praxis]

Peach has the advantage against aggressive Falcos.
Campy Falcos have the advantage against Peach.

If both players know the matchup, Falco has anadvantage IMO.
I've played two really good Falcos. Edrees and Dark Peach are right, Niko, it's not really that easy.

But while this drama is unnecessary...I'm finding it quite amusing.

 

[White-Peach]

Just what are you getting at? Cause to me this does not make any sense and is really not needed.

It makes perfect sense if you take the time to read and digest it.

"Anyone can snipe you out of the float if you're stupid enough to use it as an approach." Then I list what you're supposed to use the float for, things that falco cant just reflector away. I'm merely pointing out the widespread ignorance about the float that some people post freely, and new peach players believe everything they read. Its like making a tier list without knowing the characters you're talking about, then having people believe you.

 

[PKNintendo]

Lawl. Falco is much ligther than Peach in Brawl.

 

[TigerWoods]

OBJECTIVE PEOPLE OBJECTIVE!!

Its not this simple but;
Anyway, if you ever get a turnip I really like to mindgame it. You know, to force out that reflector to punish with fair or fsmash(with turnip).
I like to feign a fair into a grab, doesn't work all the time but its there. I just like to get him off the stage and edgeguard, just watch out for his spike though.... again its not that easy, but you understand what I'm getting at.
If your close enough toading the lazer actualy works for a random hit or two. As DarkPch said (or i think he said) Jabs work wonders on stopping things and restoring your moves. Stay close, don't get too far from that falco, limit your floating.

P.S. that matchup thing was really cool lol, havent seen that before...

 

[Deleted member]

you havent seen it because it doesnt work.

 

[deepseadiva]

Not done yet, if anyone wants to finish or add more go ahead.

I like your fact round-up.

Though you say Peach has average KO potential? That's news...

 

[BurtonEarny]

I like your fact round-up.

Though you say Peach has average KO potential? That's news...

wish it was

 

[goodkid]

Yeah she really is below-average in power, but if you edgeguard well & can hit with up-smash(kills 100+ sweetspot), its average.

I thought it would be good to round-up the matchup & state the facts instead of just announcing that the matchup was favored one way, because now there is proof

 

[BurtonEarny]

I disagree. Usually players do everything they can to avoid even the possibility of an usmash from peach, so the opportunity is few and far between in my experiance. Yeah she can edgeguard well, but it doesnt do much for her lack of killing power on the level. few moves that kill at a reasonable percent, not including bombs and stitchies, hinder her k.o. potential more than good edgeguarding helps imo.

 

[Niko_K]

You guys don't understand how overpowered a fresh sweetspotted U smash is do you xD

 

[BurtonEarny]

You guys don't understand how overpowered a fresh sweetspotted U smash is do you xD

I understand, but when they wont ALLOW yout the chance to hit them with it, it doesn't really matter how overppowered it is. I'm not saying I whiff with it, I'm saying that people actively avoid it knowing its her earliest kill move.

 

[BoTastic!]

Overpowered?

 

[Morrigan]

Overpowered?

...a fresh sweetspotted Usmash

 

[BoTastic!]

...a fresh sweetspotted Usmash

Oops, read his post wrong. Thought it was Fsmash.

 

[Niko_K]

I understand, but when they wont ALLOW yout the chance to hit them with it, it doesn't really matter how overppowered it is. I'm not saying I whiff with it, I'm saying that people actively avoid it knowing its her earliest kill move.

This is where "Mindgames" plays its part. Theres always opportunities, its just spotting them in time before your opponent does, and making it the least predictable as you can.

 

[BoTastic!]

Niko's right about that. But its still difficult to sweetspot. T_T

 

[BurtonEarny]

difficult will cover it.