Peach Tactical GD

[Dark.Pch]

This looks good. I'm gonna check out attacks that can't hit Peach this way. This be a sick trick.

 

[Eddie G]

Yeah I know about that trick, but it never came across my mind to post it lol. Besides, I usually take MKs there, I tried that once while he was edgeguarding me and I got stagespiked by nado. Never did it again. xD

Thanks for putting it up though, it should be helpful against a lot of matchups. :3

 

[phi1ny3]

@ 2 pages back:

Peaches still get fair -> naired by Lucario? Nair that thing, make him bair camp.

 

[lloDownedu74]

Any advice on last-hit-kills? I seem to be failing wifi recently cuz I end up getting to last hit, and then barely dying by my opponent's moves. Usually its cuz one of my aerials is stale, but besides that, whats the best way to kill when one hit will kill them, but also one hit will kill you?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Spacing/evasion

This decreases the chaces of getting hit. Also know the range of the ememies attacks that will kill you. You will know how close to be.

 

[Razmakazi]

i need oli heeeelp. idk wut to do to him when i'm close. i can get to him but after that I'm not so sure how to use my dair or wut i shud space w/ or w/e. aaaaand idk how to not die at 100-120 vs him. @_@

 

[Cook]

i need oli heeeelp. idk wut to do to him when i'm close. i can get to him but after that I'm not so sure how to use my dair or wut i shud space w/ or w/e. aaaaand idk how to not die at 100-120 vs him. @_@

Well, as an Olimar main, I'm going to help you.

When you're close, jab -> grab. Or just jab. Or ground float nair. Or short-hop dair to land behind his shield. Always land behind his shield.

Don't Dsmash, Olimar will never be shield poked. Don't Ftilt too much either, it's punishable.

To not die at 100-120, don't get up-smashed. You should be able to DI everything else. You should be living to about 150% or so. Olimar kills with Fair and his grabs. Of his grabs, only Purple Uthrow will kill earlier than 130-140% with proper DI. Your Dair and Nair go through his Usmash, so just do a move through it if you have to. Beware that he likes to spam Usmash, and it's an incredibly fast move, so try to do a move through it and then run off until he tires of spamming (this might take some time, we're talking about OLIMAR here). If you float low enough though, you can hit him out of his moves too.

PS - I'm not really an Olimar main, this is Nicole on not-Nicole's account.

 

[Razmakazi]

ty nicole! ;D

aaaaalso can a socal lucario/pch called Pitbull does this thing called the Pitbull Combo that's like sh dthrow turnip > bair (it'll catch the turnip) > turnip throw > jab > grab

i'm pretty sure the jab grab isn't guaranteed but i wanna know if the turnip throw is and if that works then if there's a way to continue the string afterwards or if ftilt would work instead of jab. =o

 

[Metatitan]

I think peach bomber might outprioritize pikachu's quick attack.....lol

 

[r3d d09]

Raz, there have been little combos like that for awhile they're pretty legit.

 

[White-Peach]

i need oli heeeelp. idk wut to do to him when i'm close. i can get to him but after that I'm not so sure how to use my dair or wut i shud space w/ or w/e. aaaaand idk how to not die at 100-120 vs him. @_@

copying from my pound experiences in the G/SD thread:

My first taste of Olimar and it was delicious. Killing purples, their beloved purples, is some of the sweetest nectar to be had in this game. Avoid the upsmash, kill their beloved purples, BAir approach, and you win. Its a flurry of dead pikmin and you force them to the edge and they're in an awful spot.

This is what I did to win:

DAirs toward them to cancel everything/eat shield + NAir and land behind them to DSmash to shieldpoke + slaps when they are spun around you + dash attack. He'll wise up to you and start knocking you out of the float by jumping and using his FAir. That's cool. So~

Float BAir approach (float, BAir and immediately drop BAir into the ground) then BAir again to DSmash. Follow with slaps and Dash attack. Sexy. He'll dodge sometimes and run and pull his purples. Kill them, kill his morale. Refresh moves with Peach bomber. Chase him all around the stage with this lovely game of cat and mouse until he just cant take anymore. When you're close, look out for USmash so cover yourself with a hitbox. The best he can hope to do is hit you with his non-pikmin attacks, but who cares, they dont kill and they're weak. Dont change what you're doing because you got hit, he can't kill you if you DI away from any possible follow up. You'll win!

k~

Now Nicole said you won't shield poke him, I beg to differ. He'll never have a fresh shield with the way you stay on him, ever. DAir => NAir (land behind) => DSmash. He can keep running, but just keep chasing. Kill pikmin that latch onto you while running (instafloat NAir into a run again) or ignore them (lol) because it's a distraction to slow you down and make you do something for him to punish.

And you shouldn't die from approaching correctly, because covering yourself in a DAir/NAir/BAir hitbox prevents an USmash from connecting. Just stay above FSmash (which is pretty low), but not high enough for him to run under you and USmash the startup of FAir and you're in business. Just keep in mind that if he can USmash you from where you are, cover yourself in a hitbox and move in :3 She's like AIR TANKING :D And kill the purples because they give him space, just watch for them to move to the front of the line, then BAir approach (blocks everything else and keeps you low enough to the ground to drop => shield the purples whereupon you can kill them and go back to giving him the business :D)

FAir isn't too useful in this matchup IMO, because it isnt about spacing, its about hitboxes and safety.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Hiroi is good against olimar. I had one in my pound 4 pool that I think was good. Very good. Not fond when they go halbird. I won though but he almost got three stocked last game.

 

[Cook]

D-smash does NOT shieldpoke Olimar. Trust me, I've been shieldpoked by it like twice, ever. I ALWAYS punish that move.

 

[Xyless]

Don't let Olimar get purples or yellows. They hurt

 

[Eddie G]

Hiroi is good against olimar. I had one in my pound 4 pool that I think was good. Very good. Not fond when they go halbird. I won though but he almost got three stocked last game.

Was it Pyronic Star/Logic? xD

That guy utterly ***** my views of this matchup in a MM set; 60-40 Peach's favor at BEST. I'd even wager it a 55-45 MU depending on the Olimar's luck with pulls.

 

[Corrupted]

Nair string looks like a waveshine... its too ****



Hot garbage could you make another thread on this like you did with the uair string.


Oh and new kill setup at 100-120

Weak (ground float) bair to insta drop to (buffered dash) to fair. Its legit hitstun wise and its unDIable. ****?

I would also like weak nair hitstun (I'll check when it sends into tumble). And stun on strong nair/bair (proberbly the same).

*goes back to testing **** combos*

 

[Xyless]

I'm glad people have caught on to my belief WAY back in the day that Oli is hardly an easy matchup. Everyone gave me crap for losing to Oli's left and right back in the day, it was so frustrating. Even SamuraiPanda was telling me how to beat Oli ("just use dair and he can't do anything!"), and I was like I KNOW HOW TO BEAT HIM LEAVE ME ALONE IT DOESN'T WORK.

Then playing against Cook/Fino at NO KOAST taught me that yeah, I was right. Especially if the Oli has a lot of Peach matchup practice.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Oh and new kill setup at 100-120

Weak (ground float) bair to insta drop to (buffered dash) to fair. Its legit hitstun wise and its unDIable. ****?

This most definitly does not work. Weak Bair doesn't have enough hitstun to do this

 

[Corrupted]

This most definitly does not work. Weak Bair doesn't have enough hitstun to do this

Weak hit Bair Hitstun
0%: 9
20%: 13
40%: 16
60%: 20
70%: 22
80%: 28
90%: 30
100%: 31
110%: 33
120%: attack can now be DI'd, thus ruining the setup.

landing lag bair = 9 frames, buffered dash + ground float = 5 frames, fair = 17 frames.

31 frames together when done correctly. so combo from 85 onward (not including combo breakers wolf shine and stuff)

 

[hotgarbage]

Nair string looks like a waveshine... its too ****

How would this work ?__?. Wouldn't nair send them too far for you to catch up and nair them again before they get out of hitstun?

Hot garbage could you make another thread on this like you did with the uair string.

Unfortunately no . I'm going to refrain from even holding a controller for the time being as my wrist is messed up again <_______>.

This most definitly does not work. Weak Bair doesn't have enough hitstun to do this

It does work actually xD. Though it may be too situational, I dunno (didn't look into it very much).

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

It does work actually xD. Though it may be too situational, I dunno (didn't look into it very much).

Oh really? Well my bad then...I'm still not completely convinced, I was sure the opponent could sheild in time to block the Fair

But if it does work yes, its very situational indeed

So whats the deal with D Tilt? Did it cure a disease or something? It seems to have gone from being her worst move evaaaar to the most amazing move evaaaar

?

 

[Razmakazi]

ty nicole! ;D

aaaaalso can a socal lucario/pch called Pitbull does this thing called the Pitbull Combo that's like sh dthrow turnip > bair (it'll catch the turnip) > turnip throw > jab > grab

i'm pretty sure the jab grab isn't guaranteed but i wanna know if the turnip throw is and if that works then if there's a way to continue the string afterwards or if ftilt would work instead of jab. =o

how much is guaranteed? =[

aaaand ty whitey! :D


i guess i'll try to **** this oli matchup. he's such a dumb character.

aaand mmm nice find corrupted. I had no idea it had that kinda hitstun. pretty cool.

 

[Meru.]

If this is frame guaranteed, I'd go for the Usmash. Fair is 15 frames btw.

EDIT: The Dthrow > Bair should be guaranteed, since a Dthrow > Fair is as well. And Bair is ten frames fastah.

 

[Xyless]

So whats the deal with D Tilt? Did it cure a disease or something? It seems to have gone from being her worst move evaaaar to the most amazing move evaaaar

?

It's our CRAZY SPACING move that can actually do damage and out-space some of MK's moves! (now only if it spiked when we wanted)

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

It's our CRAZY SPACING move that can actually do damage and out-space some of MK's moves! (now only if it spiked when we wanted)

Ohhh right. Which moves exactly? D Tilt isn't too slow is it?

And I can't remember, it does more damage than double Jab right?

 

[Razmakazi]

dtilt does like 10 fresh I think. And you say dtilt is slow but so is fair. The only dif is that with fair you can space it as you move backwards and with dtilt you can't, so you have to be more careful with it. However, dtilt doesn't really have any ending lag and it has the small slide so even though people think it's punishable it can kinda make them run into other moves you do.

 

[Meru.]

It's our CRAZY SPACING move that can actually do damage and out-space some of MK's moves! (now only if it spiked when we wanted)

All of Dtilt hitboxes spike actually: except for one, which is either the one that lingers or just the tip of her hand (most likely the latter one). However, the main problem is the hitbox itself. It has great horizontal range, but it's vertical range is way too poor. To spike your opponent they have to very close to the ledge without grabbing it. This situation rarely occurs, and even if, you have to hit with the move itself, they shouldn't airdodge it, or jump over it, of quickly grab the ledge, or Up/SideB, or just quickly hit you... See what I mean? Dtilt is pretty bad as an edgeguarding tool.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Mmm alright cool. I'll try using it sometime. I find it kind of strange its suddenly become such an amazing move though, everyone used to slag it off so much

 

[Cook]

JLO (gantrain) has been telling you guys how great d-tilt was for MONTHS.

 

[Xyless]

He doesn't talk THAT much on here, Cook. But when I watched him at Clash of Fighters (lolz), that's one of the things I noticed.

 

[Moozle]

When I first started playing Peach like December in like 2008 I was reading Dark's guides and he said to "space d tilts a lot" so I did and it's always been my favorite move (except maybe second to turnips) since then. You all are just slow

 

[Meru.]

I listened to Gantrain! Don't feel ignored!

 

[Praxis]

Hey Hotgarbage.

Remember Niko_K's ledgefloating video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CxLFT77-OY

Remember how he could grab the ledge, then ledgefloat onto the stage and jab while still invincible?

Think it's possible to get on the stage while still invincible with ledgefloating...and then immediately run back off + fastfall ledgeregrab, for invulnerable planking?

:3

 

[Corrupted]

Hey Hotgarbage.

Remember Niko_K's ledgefloating video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CxLFT77-OY

Remember how he could grab the ledge, then ledgefloat onto the stage and jab while still invincible?

Think it's possible to get on the stage while still invincible with ledgefloating...and then immediately run back off + fastfall ledgeregrab, for invulnerable planking?

:3

I asked this a few pages back it doesn't work he said.

This would have been the end.

 

[Akariss]

Copy and Paste from the GD so people can discuss
------------------

Relevance to Match-ups

So since I sucked some major *** at the past tourney (not making it of pools, stupid 5th seed).

I feel it necessary to learn from this and improve for next time, starting with match-ups...

I lost to DDD, Sonic (again and *****), Wario (wtf, I sucked), Olimar (this match-ups is so dumb for me)

So here's what I did for each one and my issues.

DDD - He never killed me with an up-tilt, and for the most part I felt I could win since most games were close and I actually got timed out by 6%. I used to be a DDD mainer so I feel I know this guy pretty well. I CPed Rainbow Cruise and got infinited at the boat like a n00b thou, maybe RC isn't a good idea?

Sonic - I can't camp him or approach him, he controls the whole fight and I definitely can't ever punish him, always get grabbed and turnips always feel like a loss for me anytime I even remotely think of grabbing one. Serious business this Sonic is, plus I get grabbed a LOT. I failed cause I died by his predictable F-Smash I guess.

Wario - I'm gonna assume I lost my patience here at how lame of a camp fest this is, besides Bair camping is there no other defensive/offensive approach options? I also died TWICE to the fart in one match (2 stock pools).

Olimar - So as dumb as I think it is, I CPed Halberd on Wario, for him to go Olimar on Halberd... lol. I died both times to an USmash by a purple. My approach tends to be bairs or float dairs, there's something very key I'm missing in this match-up that's screwing me up if it truly is a 70:30.


Relevance to Stages

Also.. I suck like really badly on Yoshi's Island and for some reason this tourney below average on Final Destination (not sure why).

I also avoided Lylat Cruise like the plague, but everytime I DID play it, I did well on this stage and won most of the times.

I also sucked badly on Brinstar when ever I CPed this, it never worked in my favour.

As always I played decently on Battlefield because I like this stage.

P.S. in Good news, I was able to defeat a very standard Meta Knight (Tornados/Up-Bs/DSmashs) and punish tornado effectively, which gave me high hopes

 

[deepseadiva]

Bumping because you people can't organize properly.

Quick question that needs testing: do bounced turnips have a hitbox? Like, against a wall, or ledge? I tried testing it before, and it seemed like it didn't, but not totally sure.

If it does, we might have some cool applications.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I jus finished playing like 30 Marths with NinjaLink's marths at his house. OI only one 2 games. I am not sure what makes you guys think that Peach goes even with Marth. he covered all my options and it is strictly hard to get inside. I tried all sorsts of things but nothing worked at all. Every lil thing to get in and mindgames and nothing worked at all. Its hard to get on stage when Marth is right there. Hard to land. Hard to get inside.

I'm sorry but there is no way in hell this match up is even. and I am seriously sick of it. I rather fight meta than Marth. This **** makes me wanna counterpick for Marth and I seriously refuse to do that. if I even had to do that, I'd quit this game. Cause it is not what I play this garbage for. I hae never felt so helpless in a match before like vs Marth. I tried Jusat about everything. Marth still gets away with **** and wins.

 

[Corrupted]

We could help if you had vids. Did you record anything?

Pretty good example of the match up imo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXtqWoAjy7c

 

[Dark.Pch]

No I dont. NL recording stuff broke so we can record anything. He has even had vids from three months that he can't up load. So I can't get anything up.

 

[lloDownedu74]

Well, once you get inside Marth's defensiveness, then you can proceed to kick his butt. The problem is that his fair and range is so annoying that its really hard to get inside. So what I do is just turnip/run away until he's forced to approach you, and then try to get in a fair, OoS nair, or even maybe a roll behind them into jab->grab. The hard part about the matchup is getting inside his defenses, but I mean there are some good parts about the matchup, such as turnips and grabs and stuff

In my opinion, the matchup isn't even, but most like around 55-45 Marth, or maybe even uneven, like 53-47 or 57-43. I mean, I think that Marth defenitely counters Peach, but she has some pretty good stuff against him.

Are there any forced moves or advanced tactics that help with the matchup? Like forced usmash or something? I get dthrow->utilt a lot at low percents, which is a good starter, but I think they can DI out of it.... Idk....