Our community's reaction to splittings/"bracket manipulation"

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Splitting like used to allow is not gonna help people want to pick up smash.

Good to see a lot of people realize this.

 

[Rockenos]

CEO didn't get a sticky
CEO had like 20 entrants for smash.

My point, which, by recent posts, seems to be invisible, is that the members are not chosen by the community and their actions are not chosen by the community, but what they do effects the community.

It's pretty obvious that the community is extremely split on this, yet no vote took place and the BRC isn't taking the approach they SHOULD take, which is "Well, if this many people feel this way, maybe we should reconsider or put it to a vote" and are instead saying "No, you don't understand, we're right and you're wrong."

 

[Jack Kieser]

Technically, the people in the BBRRC are chosen democratically, in the same sense that the invisible hand of the market is a "democratic agent". One of the requirements of being allowed into the BBRRC is national tournament influence through running multiple nationals (or equivalent scales of events). Events wouldn't get that kind of attendance if the TO was bad (in theory), so if a TO is good, you would know by measuring attendance rates.

So, in essence, if we want a TO to be in the BBRRC, we all go to his / her events, and if not, we don't. Technically, it's a democratic process, just not directly so.

So... try again? You're really not good at this whole "thinking" thing. It's ok; it comes with time.

 

[Rockenos]

Listen to yourself. You don't care about what anyone thinks, you're just trying to win an argument on the Internet.
So yeah! You win! Now go away.


Anyways, I think it was clear to anyone who can read that I, if not directly stated, HEAVILY implied that a great portion of the dislike for the BRC is that it's members weren't chosen by the community, and neither are there actions.

Say I want some guy in California to be in the BRC. But I live in Georgia. I would literally have to spend hundreds of dollars to enter his tournament, or "cast my vote" for him.
Really... That was a huge stretch. That's not what a democracy is, we never voted or had any say.

 

[Judo777]

I don't even know what a sticky is. Why is it a big deal if you don't use UR?

 

[C.J.]

It's not a big deal... at all.

 

[AtticusFinch]

What's the name of this thread again? Couldn't figure it out by the time I got half way down this page. (Ahem)
Splitting after a tournament is fine, give your well earned money to someone else, I mean I wouldn't, but if that's how nice you are then that's fine with me, maybe we can be friends too. I like Taco Bell by the way. Manipulating a bracket is wrong, even on a low level. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere", its not THAT serious, but it has a similar effect. In a tournament, no one is above the TO's rules, and by letting people go for minor offenses that can have 10x the effect later in the tournament almost tells the offender they have more rights than others, almost as if they're TOjr. Now I like the card system as more like a Wanted list lol, as dumb as that is. Even if it has not power, if I want to see who is know for ******* up tournaments then I'll go see who has offenses and choose for there.
Now, the hard problem. *Everyone (Insert Offense), so it doesn't matter if I talk about it publicly or not, it still will happen and shouldn't be frowned upon* This reminds me of the debate on legalizing weed. People smoke it, want it legal, but are going to be arrested for it if caught until its legalized. So what I get from this is; Sure, don't tell us when you do it anymore, but when people start getting caught and money starts being moved, then it might not be so popular. I want to know how they enforce this in real sports and try to translate it over to smash.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Listen to yourself. You don't care about what anyone thinks, you're just trying to win an argument on the Internet.
So yeah! You win! Now go away.

I care very much about what people think, if what they think is correct / factual; if not, I don't care in the slightest. You'll come to find my logic is usually very sound. You'd already know that if you lurked moar. It's cool; you'll learn that, too.

Anyways, I think it was clear to anyone who can read that I, if not directly stated, HEAVILY implied that a great portion of the dislike for the BRC is that it's members weren't chosen by the community, and neither are there actions.

Actually, most people just complain about the decisions, not the members, of the BBRRC, and it's expressly because the group consists of highly respected / educated / experienced TOs, literally the finest we have to offer (in most circumstances). People may disagree with the decisions, but, unlike the BBR, no one argues against their qualifications.

Say I want some guy in California to be in the BRC. But I live in Georgia. I would literally have to spend hundreds of dollars to enter his tournament, or "cast my vote" for him.

Yeah. Basically. Note: in the US, you can only vote in your home state, and you must be registered to do so. So, the BBRRC gives you more democratic authority to "vote" for its members through tournament participation than the US government gives you to vote for Congressmen. LOL @ you.

Really... That was a huge stretch. That's not what a democracy is, we never voted or had any say.

It's not a direct vote, but, then again, neither is the Presidential vote (electoral college), nor is the voting done on all laws (representational, not directly democratic). You need to learn what "democracy" means, in a modern context. It has forms. Try again.

 

[Rockenos]

That ISN'T HOW VOTING WORKS
There is NO WAY you aren't a troll
This ISN'T logic
THERE IS NO WAY SOMEONE IS ACTUALLY THIS STUPID


SO I'LL TELL YOU AGAIN
ONCE MORE, WITH CAPS LOCK

THE DECISIONS THE BRC MAKES EFFECT US ALL. THE DECISIONS OF ONE FROM CALIFORNIA DOES NOT ONLY EFFECT CALIFORNIANS, BUT ALSO EVERYONE ELSE USING THE UNITY RULESET
THE REASON GEORGIANS CAN ONLY VOTE FOR GEORGIANS IS BECAUSE THEIR ACTIONS REFLECT ONLY GEORGIA.

GOING TO A TOURNAMENT IS NOT VOTING
IN ANY WAY.
HOW COULD ANYONE ACTUALLY THINK IT IS?
YEAH IT'S NOT A DIRECT VOTE
BUT IT'S NOT A VOTE EITHER
THAT'S LIKE SAYING "BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN GEORGIA, YOU HAVE TO VOTE FOR THIS ONE GUY"

DO YOU KNOW WHAT VOTING IS?


tl;dr gtfo troll

 

[Jack Kieser]

Salty much? I can disprove you with one statement:

A Congressman from one state votes on federal laws that will impact the entire country, yet voters are still restricted to voting in one state only.

Face it: it's legitimate to say we use our tournament attendance as a barometer for TO approval, so it is, practically and in essence, a form of "voting". It is, in spirit, a democratic process, although not a direct one, and certainly more so that the BBR's inclusion process was.

So, cool story, bro. You still missed the point by a mile, though. Feel free to keep trying.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Rock confirmed for little kid status.

He used nearly all caps in a post.

 

[Rockenos]

Rock confirmed for little kid status.

He used nearly all caps in a post.

3 posts with solid logic and this guy's still saying the same dumb ****.
I figured he's probably half blind so I used caps to help him read it.

I mean really, did you read his posts?
Never in all my life have I met someone so stupid.

 

[theONEjanitor]

I think splitting should only be done when the the "in the money" players are already determined. In that case, it's fine. Many other games and sports allow and encourage pot splitting, but only between players who are already getting money.
if you don't want to play anymore, forfeit. This is a tournament, you don't win money for doing nothing.
Splitting money should not be used "because you don't want to play anymore". It should be used if you think it is a practical way for you to make some money. If I reach a threatening player in grand finals, I'm asking for a split or pot agreement every time. He'll definitely decline, but I'm asking because it is clearly the better option financially. I'll probably still play the match because I like the game, but it's not because "i'm tired of playing".

 

[Jack Kieser]

And, that is exactly the problem. "It's better for me financially" is not a good excuse for splitting because the point of the tournament is not to make you money... it's to create an accurate ranking of players based on skill. The money is just incentive to show up. We, as TOs, could care less if you make money. We, as TOs, reserve the right to refuse a payout for various reasons. And we, as TOs, are well within our rights to deny winnings because we have rules against splitting and under-performance.

Not to mention the obvious point of "it's not guaranteed money until the last match is played out". Like I've already proved before, even in GF, a player could (theoretically) do something to disqualify himself, and it would change the top 3 players, thus changing the payouts. Nothing is over until it's over.

Oh, and @ Rocky: UMAD, bro? Insults work a little bit more when it's BPC throwing them around because he's proven himself an able thinker. So far, I've disproven everything you've said, and your only response is, "well, clearly he's just stupid". Ad hominem is never a good premise. Feel free to keep trying, though. I'm always up for a little entertainment through salty posters.

 

[Ghostbone]

Not to mention the obvious point of "it's not guaranteed money until the last match is played out". Like I've already proved before, even in GF, a player could (theoretically) do something to disqualify himself, and it would change the top 3 players, thus changing the payouts. Nothing is over until it's over.

Unless he like, physically abused another player or something (which is an out of game offence) the player would at least get 2nd, and then split with the person who came first anyway.

 

[Judo777]

Unless he like, physically abused another player or something (which is an out of game offence) the player would at least get 2nd, and then split with the person who came first anyway.

Theoretically BOTH players can get DQed at the same time. I guess an example would be GF last game. Player 1 is getting CGed last stock by Player 2. Player 1 pauses the game intentionally to screw up Player 2. Player 2 gets mad and punches Player 1 in the face. Both are DQed essentially at the same time.

 

[Chuee]

Theoretically BOTH players can get DQed at the same time. I guess an example would be GF last game. Player 1 is getting CGed last stock by Player 2. Player 1 pauses the game intentionally to screw up Player 2. Player 2 gets mad and punches Player 1 in the face. Both are DQed essentially at the same time.

I would legit pay money to watch that.

 

[Djent]

So would I. Physical violence is far more entertaining than watching some dude run away for 40 minutes. Hell, it might go down as one of the best Brawl GFs in history.

 

[Tesh]

didnt that happen in the amatuer bracket at pound5?

 

[Rockenos]

Oh, and @ Rocky: UMAD, bro? Insults work a little bit more when it's BPC throwing them around because he's proven himself an able thinker. So far, I've disproven everything you've said, and your only response is, "well, clearly he's just stupid". Ad hominem is never a good premise. Feel free to keep trying, though. I'm always up for a little entertainment through salty posters.

I have no idea what you're talking about. All you've said is "Durr well in a way we sort of kind of voted for them so you're argument is invalid" and then said "Keep trying though" as though that somehow reinforces your argument. Idk, maybe it just makes you feel cool, low self esteem? Or do you think you're gaining respect from someone for saying that?

Obviously, back to the topic, the actions of the BRC effect the community, and we have no control over them. Due to the fact that I stated this before and you seem not to have this knowledge, you are one of three things:
1) A troll
2) Incredibly stupid
3) Dyslexic

Perhaps your dyslexia has made you misinterpret my argument as something it isn't. All the more likely, you're an idiot with low self esteem who cannot comprehend a world in which he is wrong about anything, even something as menial as voting.


If you want my opinion though, I think you're all 3

 

[Jack Kieser]

Read: "Insult insult insult insult, am I right yet?" Still no substance to your posts, dude. Either prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is no indirect influence on BBRRC membership thought tournament participation, or drop it and find a new point to argue. Because, I've already shown you, through political theory AND straight-up practical logic, how we influence BBRRC membership.

Will a blue name PLEASE shut this argument down once and for all so we can move on?

 

[Judo777]

I have no idea what you're talking about. All you've said is "Durr well in a way we sort of kind of voted for them so you're argument is invalid" and then said "Keep trying though" as though that somehow reinforces your argument. Idk, maybe it just makes you feel cool, low self esteem? Or do you think you're gaining respect from someone for saying that?

Obviously, back to the topic, the actions of the BRC effect the community, and we have no control over them. Due to the fact that I stated this before and you seem not to have this knowledge, you are one of three things:
1) A troll
2) Incredibly stupid
3) Dyslexic

Perhaps your dyslexia has made you misinterpret my argument as something it isn't. All the more likely, you're an idiot with low self esteem who cannot comprehend a world in which he is wrong about anything, even something as menial as voting.


If you want my opinion though, I think you're all 3

You know who elses influence effects the community and we have no control over? Every top level player. Every major TO. Just because you can't control every aspect of ur world is not someone elses fault.

BBRRC is for all we care, in charge of making rules no one has to follow in tournament, followed by making rules on this site. Believe it or not the community DOES exist outside SWF. So in a sense the BBRRC is really in control of nothing at all. Infact its honestly a little less than the top level players and major TOs (granted alot of the BRC is TOs) because all they can do it talk at you from a computer screen. Simple solution is to not listen if you don't like it.

 

[-Ran]

The BBR-RC is composed of Tournament Organizers who:

1. Care about their local scenes.
2. Do what they can to increase/maintain attendance.
3. Care about improving the metagame.
4. Recognize that a united rule set creates an opportunity for sponsorships and stability.

Tournament Organizers are usually players that ultimately remove themselves from entering their own tournaments, due to the needs of the community. I personally felt I had a really great chance at the last Brawl event I hosted, but since I was too busy running all four events [Melee/Brawl], I clearly couldn't enter or the quality of the tournament would have slipped. Vastly, the individuals that are running the smash tournament's aren't selfish. We normally give you the best hours of our day in the hopes that you have an enjoyable time at our event.

Every member in the BBR-RC is an equal in both vote and authority. We work as representatives of the scenes that we run events in. We've gained this privileged by all the effort that we've applied in our states/regions to keep the scene alive. Smashboards and AIB realized that the Unity was a great idea, and threw support behind it. Acceptance into the RC is a matter of voting of the current members as we look at the merits of the applicant. When I'm discussing in a thread in the RC, it isn't about what I personally feel is right. I'm looking at it through what is best for the continued existence of Smash based on the information that I have gained from members of my scene

The strength of the Unity really comes from the following train of thought: The most active tournaments use this rule set. If I want to succeed at those tournaments, I should make sure that my local tournaments have that rule set. It's a top down approach to distributing the rules. This has happened all the time prior to Unity, where scenes would adjust their rules in accordance with the largest tournament around their location. Now, it's just one rule set being used by the bigger/consistent events.

We're working on being more visible, since we don't have rules preventing discussion of the topics that are going on. It's just a matter of getting a thread rolling, and having a few members deal with the questions there. We are very much looking into what players are bringing up.

 

[Kuro~]

Just wanna say effects does not = affects Rockenos

And then kaiser followed suit

Also i'll say this again, what they do under the table is entirely up to them. Cuz if no1 knows how can we punish it? But openly discussing it and promoting it and choosing to do it hurts the hype which helps keep scenes alive. It really makes any hype match look suspicious. It becomes a question of "did he just let him do that or was that legit..?" constantly. It really takes away pressure, hype, and makes the community enjoy watching it less than they already do.

 

[Tesh]

The last hype match of a tournament is when the final "dark horse" is eliminated.

 

[Rockenos]

Fine, you win. The community will continue being ***** by the BRC and anyone who has any disagreements, complaints or concerns is wrong.
Enjoy play Barwell

 

[Javon89]

Fine, you win. The community will continue being ***** by the BRC and anyone who has any disagreements, complaints or concerns is wrong.
Enjoy play Barwell

Dayum.
/postextender

 

[Jack Kieser]

Fine, you win. The community will continue having its top nationals hosted by the BRC and anyone who has any disagreements, complaints or concerns probably won't get a sticky.
Enjoy play Barwell

Fixed. You're welcome.

 

[-Jumpman-]

Lawl, ADHD is ********. Splitting benefits no one but the people who split. The other people who paid to watch and play in the tournament are f-d. Sorry bro, but you're absolutely ******** and egocentric.

 

[Sliq]

Splitting is for ******s.

 

[Jonas]

We don't give a **** because this is the BRAWL unity ruleset, not melee lolz.

And Brawl is serious business.

 

[Chuee]

Lawl, ADHD is ********. Splitting benefits no one but the people who split. The other people who paid to watch and play in the tournament are f-d. Sorry bro, but you're absolutely ******** and egocentric.

Yes, they are SO f-d. Watching grand finals is every smashers ultimate dream, not being able to achieve this goal would cause many smashers to have very high depression. I know myself, I was extremely saddened at Ktar when I didn't get to see M2K, ADHD, and Anti play each other. Those three have NEVER played before and I know that I was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hyped for those matches.

 

[Jonas]

 

[-Jumpman-]

Yes, they are SO f-d. Watching grand finals is every smashers ultimate dream, not being able to achieve this goal would cause many smashers to have very high depression. I know myself, I was extremely saddened at Ktar when I didn't get to see M2K, ADHD, and Anti play each other. Those three have NEVER played before and I know that I was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hyped for those matches.

Maybe that's cuz your region sucks and doesn't have entertaining finals?

 

[Jack Kieser]

I know I look forward to a well-played, hyped GF. I love watching them when they are good.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

This wasn't locked yet?

 

[ADHD]

Lawl, ADHD is ********. Splitting benefits no one but the people who split. The other people who paid to watch and play in the tournament are f-d. Sorry bro, but you're absolutely ******** and egocentric.

You need a girlfriend.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So thread turned into trolling and spam, sounds like it needs a lock.

Enjoy.