This is really a quality post by ADHD, and I appreciate it. In many ways, I agree with him and am on this side, even though it seems kind of weird since I'm a BBR-RC member and he's basically speaking against it lol.
However, I have to stay behind the infraction system, it's something I certainly believe in. Everyone knows there are problems at tournaments, and it has been happening for years. The problem is, there was never any downside to it and it continued to happen. This is finally something to help stop it.
M2K was only banned for 4 weeks, not a big deal really. He thought it was okay, but it still wasn't. Just like the split at MLG where he thought it was okay, but it wasn't. To be honest, yes carding system is extreme, but how else is it going to cut down on splitting/forfeiting? TOs never really crack down on it when they need to (Ktar5).
I like to use you as an example for this, ADHD. Both you and Anti haven't done anything since you both got Yellow Carded. I'd say it worked fairly well, didn't it? Questionable sets between you too, maybe, but nothing to get you a Red Card. The point of the infraction system is to cut down on the splitting/forfeiting as much as possible. We essentially embarrassed our community because of what happened at MLG. The full blame isn't on you two, but also on the community for trying to defend what you two did. So I don't see a problem with people like AZ wanting the mindset of thinking splitting/forfeiting is okay to stop.
The infraction system probably needs a little revising IMO. After all, it seems pretty impossible to stop a Red Carded player from entering a Unity tourney. I don't think the TOs who willingly are using our ruleset should be punished for that. However, I still think it should be highly recommended to disallow players who break the rules, regardless of how insignificant it was. Cheese chose to follow this at his tourney, and I would as well if he were to show up at mine.
tldr; M2K needs to stop forfeiting, this should have sent him the message that it's not good for the community.
This continues on it well. Look at the first main thing which started off at KTAR5. Nothing was done then and there in person. If this was an important event in any other fighting game community, or at a big scene like MLG - there would be an absolute ****storm. No, a ****icane. Three players openly splitting with each other and one of them forfeiting to people he split with potentially screwing over someone else in the process. It's one of the worst "situations" I've seen yet in Brawl.
As for Bizkit mentioning Anti and ADHD haven't broken the rules since then, it's true - which is awesome. This came off of a terrible thing (as just mentioned), and nothing has happened since then except for some different characters etc in finals, but
character choice alone can not get you an infraction.
All playing off of MLG, Bizkit is right in that the Smash community is also to blame with so many people sticking up for M2K/ADHD. I fought as hard as I possibly could to keep Smash on the circuit, and convince vVv/MLG that the actions of two players do not represent an entire community. Unfortunately, it almost did (except for some of us who thankfully don't).
The infraction system definitely still needs revision, it's still quite young. It hasn't even been around for 6 months yet, there are going to be kinks here and there, and perhaps never 100% of the best explanations, we're all human. However up to this point, everything has been decided by majority vote (actually, every action passed has had super majority (66%+) so far).
The BBRC cannot control the smash community. Your "job" is to make sure the most appropriate rules such as stages, ledge grabes, timer, etc. Rules regarding the game. Not players. I'm saying that your job or goal should be setting up a balanced atmosphere INGAME for players to enjoy.
You have no say who is allowed to enter and who isn't? Who do you people think you really are? None of you "earned" this position. The BBRC is wrong for banning players.
This is a big problem with the Smash community imo, there really aren't any leaders per se or governing body, or anything with
real importance. They aren't used to it. Other fighting games can look to Evo for their large push. Games on MLG can look to MLG. Look at what happened to Melee and Brawl for their time on the circuit. Many tournaments started using MLG's ruleset that they otherwise would never use. Everything was different. If MLG continued to happen, they could handle their ban list and that's how things would be handled. The Smash community however, does not have any base like this, which is what the BBR-RC is trying to be.
If we never have a base like this, we will never succeed as a competitive community. Every main step the BBR-RC has tried to do for the community (creation, infractions, etc) has received very positive comments from the people who matter most. The CEO of MLG himself has commented on it saying it is certainly a step in the right direction. They are watching, and it's up to them if we are ever let back on the pro circuit. For anyone who thinks we don't need MLG or that our game is dying - look at tournament attendance lately. Look at the amount of sponsors we get on average for our events. Look at the hard work individuals have to do to organize large events. Look at how other communities see us. This could all change.
In terms of players, it's nothing more than just another rule. TOs have had banlists for their events before. TOs are allowed to control who can enter their events. The banlist is just another part of the Unity ruleset. And while people may not enjoy the need for Unity to be featured on SWF/AiB, it is needed. Without it, the ruleset would not be used as widely as it is or taken seriously. Prior to the BBR-RC the BBR had its recommended ruleset. AKA Unity, but without the featured part of it. Because of such, the ruleset was seen as a joke and an incredibly small percent of events used it. It was nothing, meaningless.
In terms of earning the position, the BBR-RC is comprised of well established TOs. We put our tournament resume right in the same thread as the Unity ruleset. Anyone is welcome to join that are main TOs in their respective areas. If the TOs aren't the ones who are deserving the position... then who is? This is also a big difference between the old BBR RRS and the BBR-RC. This is TOs making decisions together, not players elected into the BBR for what is generally a different reason.
The card system is pretty bull****, to be honest.
With how it's set up, you could drop out of a tourney and get charged for bracket manipulation- it's just ****ing insane. Carding people like was one of the worst ideas the Fighting game genre brought along- and it's lack of it with the fun spirit of the smash scene was much more attractive than treating our players like Robots that should never lose a match.
Why should we give a **** if M2K or ANYONE is sandbagging? Let that be their decision- they would be the ones losing the money. That in itself is enough punishment, Cards just make the BBR and TOs look like *******es in the process.
You're not going to be infracted for leaving a tournament obviously. Everything is taken into consideration. Show me a time where someone has quit an event and been infracted on it solely because of that? It hasn't happened, and it won't. I wouldn't call what happened to Dabuz "fun spirit." I wouldn't call any sort of manipulation attempts like that fun spirit. At Pound 5 in pools round 2, Seibrik went Ganondorf vs D-Torr to let him win 2-0 in attempt to get him into bracket over me. Thankfully the tie breaker worked to my advantage, but how do you think I would feel if I weren't advanced to bracket because of this? I'm just stating this as it's something that has happened to me so I am able to comment on it well. I can name things like this happening at MANY events.
What M2K got punished for was intentionally forfeiting by admitting it. Not by the reason he did it, otherwise we could say Ally should be YC'd for COT5 pools with the assumed intent of giving Pelca first seed.
Yes, and a lot of people seem to not realize this. Mew2King went MK vs everyone else, and only these other characters vs one specific person whom he had a history with. The intent was clear, and many people picked up on it right away. Furthermore, the fact that Sade brought it up to the TO only proves that they way the set happened was bs, and if she had really won legitimately there should have been no questions about it. Mew2King had intended on giving her specifically the set win. Ally on the other hand, had no seen intentions on losing or giving any specific player a win. We also can not card anyone based on character choice alone, which is ridiculous.
I think the whole punishment should just be left up to the individual TOs rather than the group as a whole.
TOs do not have to use Unity. However, the banlist is still a part of Unity to have it be used, otherwise the infractions are meaningless and none of the crazy business will ever end.
You could of course just make a list of what players have done, and then leave it up to the TOs to decide how they deal with it.
No YC/RC System, just a list with all "bad" actions players have done, so every TO can decide on his own, if he wants to let the mentioned players in or not.
The list would contain Nick+Tournament+Date+Action (If course with a link to the nick/tournament, so the TO could make his own researches if he wants to).
Probably the best.
This isn't a bad suggestion, but it puts TOs into a very bad situation. They can feel guilted into banning a certain player, allowing certain ones, etc. Not to mention possible bias in not allowing ones they think might beat them and friends, and allowing lower players. Who knows, I would hope that wouldn't happen lmao. If I was in the situation and was asked who to ban, I would feel incredibly pressured by a lot of players to allow certain ones (aka Keitaro after M2K was banned). With the way it is now, it's basically just the standard thing to do, and the TOs aren't the one to blame. If a Unity using TO holds an event now and doesn't allow M2K, it's on the BBR-RC. If we did suggestive banning, then it's on the TO. M2K could have walked up to Cheese 2 days ago at his event and hate him for not allowing him in, but instead his anger would be something directed to the BBR-RC. It's not something I personally would want to deal with, but it's at least directed at the group with the supporting evidence and vote making decisions to decide the ban. I would never want the TO to be put in a situation where they would be forced or peer-pressured into succumbing one way or the other.
We shouldn't refer to every case of splitting as bracket manipulation because it isn't.
It's just the overall title given to that group. Read the Infraction System post, it described those categories as examples. The entire group of things like splitting, manipulation, etc all fall under that title. One of the ambiguities of splitting and why it isn't allowed is leading to people questioning the legitimacy of the bracket and play related to it. However I understand your position on this and why you are concerned, so it is definitely something I will help aid to fix.
I have to agree Ice it doesn't really fix the problem just makes it become under the table and people who do now know to be quiet about it when they do it.
And melee wise, we must ask ourselves why are we in the brawl metagame and rules forums ;P
While I'm certainly not one to try and encourage it to still be done under the table without people knowing, if the committee in charge of determining if it happened (the BBR-RC) doesn't think it happened, how do you expect anyone in the community to suspect it happened? Aka, they wouldn't know it happened, and all sets would continue to appear legitimate, and there would be no problems.
BBR-RC needs to set up a virtual shop where they sell a bunch of awesome stuff for Unity Points.
MK is banned unless players purchase the right to use him at a cost of 50 Unity Credits per match
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I'm enjoying how the thread is going, it's surprisingly constructive.
