Our community's reaction to splittings/"bracket manipulation"

[Indigo Jeans]

so basically if you win a tourney you can't do whatever you please with your money because if you do people will start crying "bracket manipulation"?

****ing lol

 

[Allin]

In my opinion, I feel like a 4 week ban is like a wrist slap to me. I mean if it were near a national then the offender would actually be affected. If I had the authority I'd probably jack the red card's time to 2 and half months to show that bracket manipulation/splitting can have a big consequence. If I were the player

I think this is a good idea overall because bracket manipulation/splitting has obviously become a problem in tournament. If I were the player affected by the manipulation, I would be somewhat upset that I was, in a sense cheated out of having a chance at placing high.

I have mixed feelings about splitting, doesn't the player who wins have the freedom to do whatever they want with the money they just won? Someone please explain to me what makes this an offense (not to be rude, I'm just looking for answers)

Brawl's community needs to step it up. Other communities are probably thinking we are a joke. Brawl started to regress after the best thing that's happened to us: MLG.

If your talking about other fighting game community's (SRK, etc). We've always had a bed reputation with them ever since, Melee, now the smash community as a whole (Brawl, and Melee) are looked down upon and laughed at ever since we got dropped from MLG and EVO. The only solution to that problem is to get picked up by another circuit or to start our own run by our T.O.'s. (Which I guess is the idea behind the Unity Ruleset but it's not a strict enough idea to make it a circuit)

 

[Tin Man]

Lol like I said. Splitting in itself isn't the issue/can't be punished.

 

[Allin]

so basically if you win a tourney you can't do whatever you please with your money because if you do people will start crying "bracket manipulation"?

****ing lol

No.

Now you can't go around the tournament venue screaming "WE SPLIT LOLOLOLOLOL We knew we would win anyway"

The card system forces players to, if splitting at all, play legitimate matches, and then later split under the table.

Bracket manipulation is a whole other idea and shouldn't be put together with splitting all the time IMO

 

[Javon89]

If your talking about other fighting game community's (SRK, etc). We've always had a bed reputation with them ever since, Melee, now the smash community as a whole (Brawl, and Melee) are looked down upon and laughed at ever since we got dropped from MLG and EVO. The only solution to that problem is to get picked up by another circuit or to start our own run by our T.O.'s. (Which I guess is the idea behind the Unity Ruleset but it's not a strict enough idea to make it a circuit)

Actually SRK was what I was thinking about, which is why I said that. Now that I think about it, it was a little unfair of me to say that since SRK and SBR don't mix well.

I think Brawl is going to get better after it gets worse, In my opinion the main thing is, attitude of the top players need to change. Alas, we can only be the change we seek.

Also maybe getting all the T.O.'s together for a circuit isn't a half bad idea, but factors come into play, mainly money. The ruleset isn't perfect but we don't have full understanding the game itself, so it should change sooner or later.

 

[Allin]

Actually SRK was what I was thinking about, which is why I said that. Now that I think about it, it was a little unfair of me to say that since SRK and SBR don't mix well.

I think Brawl is going to get better after it gets worse, In my opinion the main thing is, attitude of the top players need to change. Alas, we can only be the change we seek.

Also maybe getting all the T.O.'s together for a circuit isn't a half bad idea, but factors come into play, mainly money. The ruleset isn't perfect but we don't have full understanding the game itself, so it should change sooner or later.

Money is pretty much the main issue, getting a circuit together isn't cheap.

Personally I think Melee (With its already situated community), and Brawl should join together and start just a plain old Smash circuit. Genesis 2 worked out fantastic on that regard because it was just a SMASH tournament not split down the middle (Though I know literally it was lol)

The issue with T.O's is that not all agree on the unity ruleset and the BBRC probably don't want to seem like tyrants telling T.O.'s "Use our ruleset...or else!," because in all honesty that would never work.

In short, I have to agree a circuit is the way to go in restoring the brawl community (And it wouldn't hurt the melee community ether )

 

[Orion*]

You could of course just make a list of what players have done, and then leave it up to the TOs to decide how they deal with it.
No YC/RC System, just a list with all "bad" actions players have done, so every TO can decide on his own, if he wants to let the mentioned players in or not.
The list would contain Nick+Tournament+Date+Action (If course with a link to the nick/tournament, so the TO could make his own researches if he wants to).

Probably the best.

This sounds so much better

so i almsot beat him

Either way, if you won the set, there would be nothing to complain about. amirite?

6 bucks.

Homie you should have just bought him some subway LMFAO

6 bucks?

seriously?????

Like I'll give the BBRC 6 bucks to stop w/ the carding nonsense.

 

[Judo777]

This sounds so much better


Either way, if you won the set, there would be nothing to complain about. amirite?



Homie you should have just bought him some subway LMFAO

6 bucks?

seriously?????

Like I'll give the BBRC 6 bucks to stop w/ the carding nonsense.

Well i would have bought his food but Kero is 15 and his parents drive him to the venue so he can never eat with us afterward. So I just figured I'd throw 6 bucks his way.

 

[lordvaati]

I feel like smash was much more unified before the birth of the BBRC, which is heavily ironic.

understatement of the bloody century, comrade. the fact that the Backrooms felt they had to split was when the problem started. it should really be the unified SBR again.

just wanted to gat that off my chest.

 

[CT Chia]

I have mixed feelings about splitting, doesn't the player who wins have the freedom to do whatever they want with the money they just won? Someone please explain to me what makes this an offense (not to be rude, I'm just looking for answers)

Yes, they have a freedom to do whatever they want with the money when they earn it. Most of the time splits and deals are being made before the tournament is even over, aka, before the money is even awarded. If Player 1 makes $100 and Player 2 makes $20 and on the way home get food and Player 2 is like man I wish I made more money, and Player 1 is like no probs bro, here's a $20.

OBVIOUSLY nothing like that is bad. However, if Player 1 and 2 were in grand finals and said hey do you want to split the money? If people found out that is bad. People then question the legitimacy of the finals going on, makes it worse as a spectator sport, people wonder if any other deals happen. Lets say Player 3 destroys Player 2 but can not beat Player 1. Who is to say Player 1 forfeited or "pretend to lost" to Player 2 in winners finals to beat Player 3 in losers finals to make sure top two was Players 1 and 2, so they could split all the money. That would be awful.

After the MLG DC incident, I literally heard people saying at subsequent offenses while watching finals "geez I wonder who M2K split with this time to get to finals?" It ruins competitive play.

I already brought it up, if we don't know about it, you can't be punished for it. And if we don't know about it, the community doesn't know about it. Aka, no problems, no harm.

 

[Dabuz]

Either way, if you won the set, there would be nothing to complain about. amirite?

If i won, i wouldn't of complained, but people would be johning for M2K saying it was dumb for him to forfeit and then play in losers. Thats another dumb double standard though, because it only matters because he wins after sandbagging/ forfeiting

 

[Player-1]

Yes, they have a freedom to do whatever they want with the money when they earn it. Most of the time splits and deals are being made before the tournament is even over, aka, before the money is even awarded. If Player 1 makes $100 and Player 2 makes $20 and on the way home get food and Player 2 is like man I wish I made more money, and Player 1 is like no probs bro, here's a $20.

OBVIOUSLY nothing like that is bad. However, if Player 1 and 2 were in grand finals and said hey do you want to split the money? If people found out that is bad. People then question the legitimacy of the finals going on, makes it worse as a spectator sport, people wonder if any other deals happen. Lets say Player 3 destroys Player 2 but can not beat Player 1. Who is to say Player 1 forfeited or "pretend to lost" to Player 2 in winners finals to beat Player 3 in losers finals to make sure top two was Players 1 and 2, so they could split all the money. That would be awful.

After the MLG DC incident, I literally heard people saying at subsequent offenses while watching finals "geez I wonder who M2K split with this time to get to finals?" It ruins competitive play.

I already brought it up, if we don't know about it, you can't be punished for it. And if we don't know about it, the community doesn't know about it. Aka, no problems, no harm.

This example is bad because I wouldn't lose to Player 2 under any circumstances >.>

 

[CT Chia]

You know what I mean!

 

[Player-3]

Yes, they have a freedom to do whatever they want with the money when they earn it. Most of the time splits and deals are being made before the tournament is even over, aka, before the money is even awarded. If Player 1 makes $100 and Player 2 makes $20 and on the way home get food and Player 2 is like man I wish I made more money, and Player 1 is like no probs bro, here's a $20.

OBVIOUSLY nothing like that is bad. However, if Player 1 and 2 were in grand finals and said hey do you want to split the money? If people found out that is bad. People then question the legitimacy of the finals going on, makes it worse as a spectator sport, people wonder if any other deals happen. Lets say Player 3 destroys Player 2 but can not beat Player 1. Who is to say Player 1 forfeited or "pretend to lost" to Player 2 in winners finals to beat Player 3 in losers finals to make sure top two was Players 1 and 2, so they could split all the money. That would be awful.

After the MLG DC incident, I literally heard people saying at subsequent offenses while watching finals "geez I wonder who M2K split with this time to get to finals?" It ruins competitive play.

I already brought it up, if we don't know about it, you can't be punished for it. And if we don't know about it, the community doesn't know about it. Aka, no problems, no harm.

l0l you think i can't beat p1

cmon chibo i thought you were better than this

 

[CT Chia]

omg these players are everywhere

stop being so generic

 

[Player-3]

omg these players are everywhere

stop being so generic

reported for verbal abuse

 

[Player_2]

WTF chibo im not that bad

 

[Deleted member]

I already brought it up, if we don't know about it, you can't be punished for it. And if we don't know about it, the community doesn't know about it. Aka, no problems, no harm.

So the real message is that you don't care about splitting or bracket manipulation in any way, and subsequently I can only conclude that you don't care if anyone is actually hurt by either practice or any harm to the community at large. I can just as quickly conclude then that the only thing you care about here is the only thing that secrecy would defend against: the overall community image. If you wanted to protect the community image by removing these practices, you shouldn't have given it such blatant advertisement as a problem, such as introducing a new penal system specifically aimed to target those behaviors.

You should also not engage in them yourself. But you've never split, right chibo? Or, if you did, you never mentioned it to anyone, but we all know anyway. Your message is not congruent with your actions.

 

[Judo777]

Hahaha the last page of this thread is hilarious and just made my day. Players 1-3 nice work lol

 

[CT Chia]

You should also not engage in them yourself. But you've never split, right chibo? Or, if you did, you never mentioned it to anyone, but we all know anyway. Your message is not congruent with your actions.

The last time I split was at Steel City Showdown over 2 years ago, before I had any knowledge of the effects it had on competitive gaming.

 

[Allin]

So the real message is that you don't care about splitting or bracket manipulation in any way, and subsequently I can only conclude that you don't care if anyone is actually hurt by either practice or any harm to the community at large. I can just as quickly conclude then that the only thing you care about here is the only thing that secrecy would defend against: the overall community image. If you wanted to protect the community image by removing these practices, you shouldn't have given it such blatant advertisement as a problem, such as introducing a new penal system specifically aimed to target those behaviors.

You should also not engage in them yourself. But you've never split, right chibo? Or, if you did, you never mentioned it to anyone, but we all know anyway. Your message is not congruent with your actions.

Woah whats with the singling out at chibo for, you act as if he's the BBRC's ultimate leader and that no one else helped make the decision for the card system at all.

 

[Kantrip]

There needs to be more incentive than just a cash prize to win a tournament. The "title" doesn't seem to be enough now with people splitting, so why not have something (I don't actually know because I'm not sure if a trophy or something would even motivate anyone to win) that can't be split for first place so that grand finals won't become a joke? They can split the cash all they want, but what I'm seeing is: "We don't want top players to ruin the entertainment value of our late bracket matches". With more incentive to win, this shouldn't happen.

 

[Bizkit047]

AZ is actually getting trophies for his tourneys now IIRC.

 

[Kantrip]

Hmm, that's good. I'm interested to see if it's enough to make Grand Finals worth playing.

 

[Deleted member]

The last time I split was at Steel City Showdown over 2 years ago, before I had any knowledge of the effects it had on competitive gaming.

You were in the same bracket twice at one tournament. And got Mike Haze disqualified for a bull**** reason in the same tournament. Clearly you've never had any hand in bracket manipulation.

 

[Ripple]

You were in the same bracket twice. And got Mike Haze disqualified for a bull**** reason in the same tournament. Clearly you've never had any hand in bracket manipulation.

it was in the rules that any player could be in the bracket 3 times if they won 3 online qualifiers.

M2K was the one who cheated at that tournament anyway. he has never played online and yet still got to play. HE WAS IN AUSTRALIA at the time of the last qualifier anyway

 

[Javon89]

it was in the rules that any player could be in the bracket 3 times if they won 3 online qualifiers.

M2K was the one who cheated at that tournament anyway. he has never played online and yet still got to play. HE WAS IN AUSTRALIA at the time of the last qualifier anyway

Wait how can he enter the tournament if he can't qualify? Did the T.O. miss that or let him in because he's a top player?

 

[CT Chia]

You were in the same bracket twice at one tournament. And got Mike Haze disqualified for a bull**** reason in the same tournament. Clearly you've never had any hand in bracket manipulation.

Basically what Ripple said.

And the rules were, through the entire qualifying season (32 events in total), you were allowed to win up 3 of them. Then each of the winners were put into a final 32p bracket, played until top 8, then those 8 were flown out. So I had 3 spots in the top 8, and 2 made it to top 8.

Haze tried to DQ me from pausing within 3 seconds of the match starting because I borrowed a controller from Cheese for the set and it turns out it was broken (mine was broken, but not as bad so I had to switch back to mine). He paused game 3, and because of that there was a stock loss, that's it. No DQ. Same as most other tournaments.

And yes, Mew2King did not play the online qualifier he won, and had someone else do it for him.

But either way, that is all in the past. It was almost a year ago now, all is said and done.
But trying to make me look bad in this thread makes no sense and does nothing. Not to mention I am not the BBR-RC, I am just one part of it, equal to everyone else.

 

[Deleted member]

it was in the rules that any player could be in the bracket 3 times if they won 3 online qualifiers.

You're right. The rules we're debating prohibit bracket manipulation. But as long as the rules are okay with bracket manipulation, we are too. We definitely value arbitrary rulings over any practical application. If you want to be a tool, at least don't use yourself. You're supposed to be one of the "smart" ones in this debate. Actually question and consider the merit of a proposition before you support it blindly.

 

[Javon89]

And yes, Mew2King did not play the online qualifier he won, and had someone else do it for him.

I feel pretty dumb for jumping to accusations.

 

[Ripple]

You're right. The rules we're debating prohibit bracket manipulation. But as long as the rules are okay with bracket manipulation, we are too. We definitely value arbitrary rulings over any practical application. If you want to be a tool, at least don't use yourself. You're supposed to be one of the "smart" ones in this debate. Actually question and consider the merit of a proposition before you support it blindly.

entering up to 3 times isn't bracket manipulation if its clearly stated in the rules that you are allowed to do so.

and, no, I'm actually not one of the smart one in this debate. my debate skills are average at best. and I do not support this blindly, I've been opposed to splitting for quite some time

 

[Bizkit047]

Lmao at calling that bracket manipulation, especially when the rules specifically stated you could enter more than once.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So how does that work if you face yourself in grand finals? Do you split 1nd and 2nd place with yourself?

 

[CT Chia]

If Chibo A ever faced Chibo B just one of them would progress after a 24 minute set full of sweet ledge on ledge action.

If I was good enough to get both Chibos in top 2... Well, I guess so lmao. Take it up with the organizers, I didn't make the rule lol.

I had to play M2K in losers twice in a row. The winner of M2K and Chibo played Chibo.

 

[Allin]

If Chibo A ever faced Chibo B just one of them would progress after a 24 minute set full of sweet ledge on ledge action.

If I was good enough to get both Chibos in top 2... Well, I guess so lmao. Take it up with the organizers, I didn't make the rule lol.

I had to play M2K in losers twice in a row. The winner of M2K and Chibo played Chibo.

Well that must have been odd.

 

[Masky]

You have been issued a citation by the ISP

The sheer reaction to the Brawl splitting dilemmas has caused more damage to the community than the actual splittings.

I tried to keep the MLG split under the table but regardless, everyone still found out. Rich Brown, who you all would have thought to be the most infuriated of the individuals that attended that tournament, did not care at all. Either way, the news traveled to MLG officials, and thus MLG was dropped.

At KTAR 5, Mew2king defeats Dabuz in losers and then tries to bargain his way into a 3-way split with me, Anti, and himself because of the lack of desire to play. Anti admits this over the livestream for some dumb reason, and Dabuz is later angered. Dabuz, who would have most likely lost to all of the higher seeded players still remaining in the bracket, can now look back at the situation with nothing more than a slight aggravation. However, the whole KTAR 5 event lead to the creation of Yellow Cards for splitting/bracket manipulation. These cards serve as a reason for people to act out against the BBRC that commission them, and furthermore tear apart our community after the dropping MLG.

Genesis 2 is predictably next, but what is there really to say? Mew2king admits to sandbagging in pools and purposely throwing away a set to a fellow female smasher, but she later drops out of pools and therefor the set affected absolutely no one. He is now banned from all future events that use the Universal Ruleset for a period of time. Lower level players who look up to Mew2king are now furious.

My point is that splitting has stemmed from the Melee days. Yes, they can be bad intentioned, but this community is becoming even more separated with the punishments of splitting over the actual act. It's not worth the effort or reward when something greater is sacrificed, a real unity. I feel like smash was much more unified before the birth of the BBRC, which is heavily ironic. M2k needs to change up his act but this is not the answer.


Oh yeah, and one last point. Splitting should be done under the table, but even in secrecy it is just as harmful as when public. It shouldn't be punished.

You have been issued a red card for insubordination.

-Internet Smash Police​

 

[Judo777]

If Chibo A ever faced Chibo B just one of them would progress after a 24 minute set full of sweet ledge on ledge action.

If I was good enough to get both Chibos in top 2... Well, I guess so lmao. Take it up with the organizers, I didn't make the rule lol.

I had to play M2K in losers twice in a row. The winner of M2K and Chibo played Chibo.

If Chibo A ever played Chibo B in grand finals, he would get carded for under performance or throwing the match since he clearly wasn't trying his hardest to beat himself. Or he would get carded for splitting. Its a bad scenario good thing that didn't happen lol.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

understatement of the bloody century, comrade. the fact that the Backrooms felt they had to split was when the problem started. it should really be the unified SBR again.

just wanted to gat that off my chest.

...You do realize that more tournaments are using the unity ruleset across the country than, well, anything else, right?

 

[Anth0ny]

You have been issued a red card for insubordination.

-Internet Smash Police​

perfect

 

[Javon89]

You have been issued a red card for insubordination.

-Internet Smash Police​

This made me laugh my *** off.