Our community's reaction to splittings/"bracket manipulation"

[Javon89]

Why is this the one fighting game community that has this kind of problem? Imagine SF tournies if Daigo had splits with Justin Wong, or if Kaqn were to do so in BB. Their community would be furious. Whether Mew2King likes it or not he does represent a respectable skill level in the Smash community since Melee. The way I see it if you're going to purposefully lose so you can sweep one side of the bracket and your cohort can do the same to the other side it is clearly bracket manipulation. If someone's excuse to not want to play is that they're tired or some such maybe they should honestly reconsider playing at all. The card system is flawed, that much is obvious, and it is still up to TO's whether to allow such people into their tournaments. However such information of bracket manipulation should be out out there so they can decide

Hey any fighting game community could have had this splitting/bracket manipulation problem and nobody could have known, we're the only community that has rules set against it. No, yellow cards are a warning and if you're red carded, you can't go into tournaments that use the Unity Ruleset or decide to use only the carding aspect of the ruleset, AT ALL.

With this rule it makes the BBR-RC seem like tyrants, but that's what they're not aiming for. They're trying to fight this obvious problem, but it isn't easy to see if it is an instance of a bracket manipulation, so if you do get caught you will get a consequence.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I still don't get how people can think even with malicious intent it's ok to split/forfeit to manipulate a bracket.

 

[Bizkit047]

Concerning Ktar5, I sympathize with those who traveled some distance to stream videos and to create hype. But frankly, that's not what the tournament is all about. A tournament is simply to see who the most talented players are in a set amount of known players, and they are then ranked. In this way, the hype, videos, and streamers have exactly zero impact on the competitive aspect of the game. One would argue that if they did in some way impact the results, they should instead be disallowed. Publicity is extraneous to this debate, and when you pay your $10 to enter the tournament, you're not paying for videos later and you're not paying for tournament hype. You have your shot at winning whatever your relative skill dictates that you should earn. That's it.

You're dismissing the impact that lack of streams & hype has on a tourney and region's scene. All my post illustrated is that splitting and forfeiting negatively impacts more than just a couple players that get screwed in bracket. You just said it yourself. A tourney is a way to "rank" the players. How are you going to know the rank of a split? How is that competitive or good for the tourney in any way?

I quoted this paragraph again specifically because in it you admit openly that something that has no effect on tournament results should have some priority over something that does impact tournament results. In doing so, you acknowledge the move as anti-competitive. This debate is already over. You concede that my main points are correct.

And I stand by my statement that allowing splitting & forfeiting to happen is majorly anti-competitive itself, and still negatively affects the tourney in more than just bracket. All aspects should be considered.

So long as the BBR-RC has rules outlined, its members should be endorsing them consistently. That they are not is indicative that even the group does not agree on this topic entirely. If a position is open, I'd be interested in the functional group dynamic.

Again, we don't want splitting or forfeiting to be allowed. We ALL agree on this. We know that we can't prove it unless the players or TO admits it happens, and we also acknowledge that it will happen sometimes anyway. Other BBR-RC member's posts about "if we can't prove it, we can't punish it" is true in this sense. None of them post that they support the act of it, regardless of whether or not the players admit to it.

As for pools, they are designed to save time in the first place. The genesis bracket started at 32 entrants I believe? About equivalent to 3 sets of pools? We'd have to experiment, but it might actually be faster to cut out the bracket completely? It's not a bad idea to play with.

It really depends on how many setups to entrants. I ran a 28 person tourney a couple weeks ago, and I also ran 1 round of pools, where top 3 made it out into a 32 person bracket (18 people advanced total, not 32). One pool per TV, it took a lot of time for just R1 pools to finish. Replacing more rounds of bracket with pools seems a little tough with time constraints. When you do a pools, you're asking all the players of that pool to hang around their pool until they play all their matches. This doesn't always happen, especially at bigger tourneys, pools usually take quite a bit of time.

About half of your post was that I should look at the bigger picture concerning bracket manipulation. I think that is the wrong framing with which to approach the problem. Community interest, image, and other interests are all secondary to the tournament because our community labels itself as competitive in nature. Instead, all of those things you are endorsing should be low priority to the tournament itself. If you want to prevent someone in losers bracket from getting screwed into 3rd place, then bracket manipulation is a real problem. If you don't want people on a stream to be sad, well, too bad. They didn't go to the tournament and they're not entitled to anything. Get your priorities in order.

As I said above, it was just examples of how splitting and forfeiting can affect the tourney outside of the bracket itself, since you don't see a problem with it inside of the bracket. What it comes down to is players who split and forfeit should be punished in some way. Is the infraction system the best method? Probably not, but it can and probably will be tweaked in the future.

Why is this the one fighting game community that has this kind of problem? Imagine SF tournies if Daigo had splits with Justin Wong, or if Kaqn were to do so in BB. Their community would be furious. Whether Mew2King likes it or not he does represent a respectable skill level in the Smash community since Melee. The way I see it if you're going to purposefully lose so you can sweep one side of the bracket and your cohort can do the same to the other side it is clearly bracket manipulation. If someone's excuse to not want to play is that they're tired or some such maybe they should honestly reconsider playing at all. The card system is flawed, that much is obvious, and it is still up to TO's whether to allow such people into their tournaments. However such information of bracket manipulation should be out out there so they can decide

We're not the only community with this problem. The difference is, when it happens in other communities, often times it is never found out.

 

[Thebest1pj]

So this is where you end up when you namsearch gnes.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I just want to point out that hype, streams, and all of that do matter, and that the audience is always a priority. Because no competition is worth its merit if no one outside of the competitors gives a ****.

You can have the biggest circlejerk competition in the world, but if not one single person pays attention to the World Circlejerk Championships, you might as well have not even had the event. We're trying to expand this community and make it better both competitively and socially, as well as trying to make it bigger and better on a broader scale. Telling people to essentially flip the bird to fans and saying splitting is okay when it is clearly anti-competitive is absolutely ridiculous and I'm seriously repulsed by the fact that people are arguing that splitting is okay and fans don't matter.

 

[FOUREYES]

I just want to point out that hype, streams, and all of that do matter, and that the audience is always a priority. Because no competition is worth its merit if no one outside of the competitors gives a ****.

You can have the biggest circlejerk competition in the world, but if not one single person pays attention to the World Circlejerk Championships, you might as well have not even had the event. We're trying to expand this community and make it better both competitively and socially, as well as trying to make it bigger and better on a broader scale. Telling people to essentially flip the bird to fans and saying splitting is okay when it is clearly anti-competitive is absolutely ridiculous and I'm seriously repulsed by the fact that people are arguing that splitting is okay and fans don't matter.

I agree; this thread pretty much sums up why people don't take competitive gaming seriously.

 

[Jack Kieser]

In this thread: people don't understand the concepts of "long-term", "far-reaching", or "consequences".

 

[Mew2King]

okay I definitely have a few things I wanna say

1) ive been splitting a lot of tourneys since 2006, JUST TO BE NICE. I used to split all the time with pc and Chu, but ONLY after I surpassed them both in skill. They never split with me before I got better than them. I did it because I'm overly too nice, and the grand total money I've lost from splitting is probably near 5000 dollars by now in the past 5 years.

2) I don't do any of that **** to do bracket manipulation, I did it because I COULDNT PLAY (and in some cases, just didn't care. I did not have malicious intentions though). IN FACT I'm victim to Ken throwing his set with Chu so that Ken could beat me after I took out Azen at MLG Chicago in 2006, so that they could split top two. I could have easily done better than 3rd had that not happened. At Ktar I had some VERY personal stuff in my life (NOT smash related) ****ing me up that happened later in that day, and I COULDNT bring myself to play any more matches. At Genesis2, when Sade was the last person in my pool, I was guaranteed first seed anyway, AND it was just pools with many people making it out anyway, so I just used characters I don't really ever play just so it'd be more fun. i almost won with falco on brinstar actually. I didn't do it with the intentions of THROWING games. For that case, I can see what I did was wrong, but it was NOT with malicious intent.

3) people only care about it the very few times I've done it. No one ever gives a **** when Texas does 3 way splits or anti and adhd split for like 100 tournaments in a row or all these other players split with each other, all the time. You guys are biased as ****, so **** you all for that

 

[-Googs]

da king has spoken

so fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck all of youu

 

[Mew2King]

@ adhd you don't know what you're talking about. i never admitted to throwing the set, because I didn't. I simply didn't care. You are not one to talk, as you've split more in brawl than i have over the past few years, and I've been to more tournaments.

 

[Bizkit047]

1) ive been splitting a lot of tourneys since 2006, JUST TO BE NICE. I used to split all the time with pc and Chu, but ONLY after I surpassed them both in skill. They never split with me before I got better than them. I did it because I'm overly too nice, and the grand total money I've lost from splitting is probably near 5000 dollars by now in the past 5 years.

Then you need to stop being too nice. It's not that hard to just play out your matches. MLG should have taught you that being too nice and splitting because you do not want to play has extreme negative impacts on the tourney and community as a whole.

2) I don't do any of that **** to do bracket manipulation, I did it because I COULDNT PLAY (and in some cases, just didn't care. I did not have malicious intentions though). At Ktar I had some VERY personal stuff in my life (NOT smash related) ****ing me up that happened later in that day, and I COULDNT bring myself to play any more matches. At Genesis2, when Sade was the last person in my pool, I was guaranteed first seed anyway, AND it was just pools with many people making it out anyway, so I just used characters I don't really ever play just so it'd be more fun. i almost won with falco on brinstar actually. I didn't do it with the intentions of THROWING games. For that case, I can see what I did was wrong, but it was NOT with malicious intent.

We all know you don't do it on purpose of screwing with pools or brackets, but that is what sometimes the end result is. Just because YOU were guaranteed 1st seed does not mean the rest of the pool was okay. In major nationals, such as Apex/Pound/Genesis, first round of pools are VERY important. Getting that 1st seed ensures that you are very unlikely to be stuck into a "death pool" in R2 pools. Since you were the obvious 1st seed, you did not have to worry. However, 2nd & 3rd seeds were. Getting 3rd seed is a death wish going into R2 pools. Getting shafted out of that 2nd seed because of a forfeit messes with the integrity of the pools and is considered a problem.

3) people only care about it the very few times I've done it. No one ever gives a **** when Texas does 3 way splits or anti and adhd split for like 100 tournaments in a row or all these other players split with each other, all the time. You guys are biased as ****, so **** you all for that

Believe it or not, the Texas split was looked into. The store closed before the tourney could finish according to the TO, so that falls within what is okay, as it was clearly out of the TOs hand. We look into any kind of splitting that is brought up, it just so happens that you do it most often when it has very negative impacts (MLG & Ktar).

The problem with you is: You admit to splitting/forfeiting. The honesty is great, but it still does not reflect well and still clearly goes against the rules. This is not to say that we condone it if nothing is said.

Simple solution: Stop being nice and splitting. Just play out the matches. If you can't physically play, then I guess that's another issue, but not the same as not wanting to play. Remember this when you attend Ktar so that no more drama ensues, as Keitaro has stated he will not allow splitting/forfeiting this time.

 

[Player-1]

okay I definitely have a few things I wanna say

1) ive been splitting a lot of tourneys since 2006, JUST TO BE NICE. I used to split all the time with pc and Chu, but ONLY after I surpassed them both in skill. They never split with me before I got better than them. I did it because I'm overly too nice, and the grand total money I've lost from splitting is probably near 5000 dollars by now in the past 5 years.

2) I don't do any of that **** to do bracket manipulation, I did it because I COULDNT PLAY (and in some cases, just didn't care. I did not have malicious intentions though). IN FACT I'm victim to Ken throwing his set with Chu so that Ken could beat me after I took out Azen at MLG Chicago in 2006, so that they could split top two. I could have easily done better than 3rd had that not happened. At Ktar I had some VERY personal stuff in my life (NOT smash related) ****ing me up that happened later in that day, and I COULDNT bring myself to play any more matches. At Genesis2, when Sade was the last person in my pool, I was guaranteed first seed anyway, AND it was just pools with many people making it out anyway, so I just used characters I don't really ever play just so it'd be more fun. i almost won with falco on brinstar actually. I didn't do it with the intentions of THROWING games. For that case, I can see what I did was wrong, but it was NOT with malicious intent.

3) people only care about it the very few times I've done it. No one ever gives a **** when Texas does 3 way splits or anti and adhd split for like 100 tournaments in a row or all these other players split with each other, all the time. You guys are biased as ****, so **** you all for that

I don't think anyone is saying that it was for malicious intent ever, but I could be wrong as I haven't read everything in this thread, it's just the fact that you're screwing other people over by sandbagging pools or forfeiting in winners beating someone then forfeiting the very next round. THAT'S the problem and it just needs to stop, you should know the rules by now and if the rules clearly say don't split or intentionally forfeit or purposely sandbag or whatever then just don't do it and everyone will be happy.

 

[felipe_9595]

Then you need to stop being too nice. It's not that hard to just play out your matches. MLG should have taught you that being too nice and splitting because you do not want to play has extreme negative impacts on the tourney and community as a whole.



We all know you don't do it on purpose of screwing with pools or brackets, but that is what sometimes the end result is. Just because YOU were guaranteed 1st seed does not mean the rest of the pool was okay. In major nationals, such as Apex/Pound/Genesis, first round of pools are VERY important. Getting that 1st seed ensures that you are very unlikely to be stuck into a "death pool" in R2 pools. Since you were the obvious 1st seed, you did not have to worry. However, 2nd & 3rd seeds were. Getting 3rd seed is a death wish going into R2 pools. Getting shafted out of that 2nd seed because of a forfeit messes with the integrity of the pools and is considered a problem.



Believe it or not, the Texas split was looked into. The store closed before the tourney could finish according to the TO, so that falls within what is okay, as it was clearly out of the TOs hand. We look into any kind of splitting that is brought up, it just so happens that you do it most often when it has very negative impacts (MLG & Ktar).

The problem with you is: You admit to splitting/forfeiting. The honesty is great, but it still does not reflect well and still clearly goes against the rules. This is not to say that we condone it if nothing is said.

Simple solution: Stop being nice and splitting. Just play out the matches. If you can't physically play, then I guess that's another issue, but not the same as not wanting to play. Remember this when you attend Ktar so that no more drama ensues, as Keitaro has stated he will not allow splitting/forfeiting this time.

OOOH!!! So lets punish the player that actually sayd they did it in same of the ones who just shut up about it!!! That logic is flawless!!

Oh wait...

 

[Mew2King]

Then you need to stop being too nice. It's not that hard to just play out your matches. MLG should have taught you that being too nice and splitting because you do not want to play has extreme negative impacts on the tourney and community as a whole.


I was not thinking about that and no one was supposed to know but someone had to make a BLOG about it, and ally posted it on chibo's account in the brawl back room, and alex strife posted private convos in the back room too. just goes to show you can't trust anyone.



We all know you don't do it on purpose of screwing with pools or brackets, but that is what sometimes the end result is. Just because YOU were guaranteed 1st seed does not mean the rest of the pool was okay. In major nationals, such as Apex/Pound/Genesis, first round of pools are VERY important. Getting that 1st seed ensures that you are very unlikely to be stuck into a "death pool" in R2 pools. Since you were the obvious 1st seed, you did not have to worry. However, 2nd & 3rd seeds were. Getting 3rd seed is a death wish going into R2 pools. Getting shafted out of that 2nd seed because of a forfeit messes with the integrity of the pools and is considered a problem.

Yes, I know that. That's why I apologized for that. What IS gay about it though is that people do this all the time, but only I get in trouble and made a big deal out of for it. As a result of ally getting 2nd seed in pools by going wolf, falcon, and many other random characters at clash of titans 5, he had to fight me in semis (or quarters i think semis though), and I had to beat like 3-4 more people before fighting him again as a result. I know it's not like he did that on purpose, but that actually made the tourney much harder for me, but no one cares, just like if anyone else does it, nobody cares.


Believe it or not, the Texas split was looked into. The store closed before the tourney could finish according to the TO, so that falls within what is okay, as it was clearly out of the TOs hand. We look into any kind of splitting that is brought up, it just so happens that you do it most often when it has very negative impacts (MLG & Ktar).

The problem with you is: You admit to splitting/forfeiting. The honesty is great, but it still does not reflect well and still clearly goes against the rules. This is not to say that we condone it if nothing is said.

Simple solution: Stop being nice and splitting. Just play out the matches. If you can't physically play, then I guess that's another issue, but not the same as not wanting to play. Remember this when you attend Ktar so that no more drama ensues, as Keitaro has stated he will not allow splitting/forfeiting this time.


fine I won't make it public anymore, but you DO see my point right? i already know people do it in secret all the time and I know some names too but I won't say anymore I guess since you can't say anything in the smash, or even fighting game communities without it being made a huge deal or different false stories and rumors about it being made up. Also, splitting was never against the rules until really recently, and I've been screwed out of thousands of total dollars, mostly from melee, just from being kind. Most of the time I've split it was out of being overly-nice to "friends" that were probably just using me to make more money when I was probably going to win the tournament (i was either waiting in GF or much more skilled than my opponent. They never wanted to when I had the disadvantage. I'm a fool


edit - @ player1, that happened ONE TIME -EVER-, and was not with those intentions

edit 2 - oh yeah as far as Gen2 grand finals, I told them I wanted to watch the melee GF, and they said no. 20 min? more like 5. I went from playing teams GF to singles GF and couldn't even watch what I wanted (missed it both at gen1 then gen2). Stop making **** up

 

[Bizkit047]

OOOH!!! So lets punish the player that actually sayd they did it in same of the ones who just shut up about it!!! That logic is flawless!!

Oh wait...

What is flawed about that? Did you think what you said through carefully? He admitted to it, so he was punished for it. Just because a player admits to breaking a rule does not mean they should go unpunished, especially if they were already punished for it recently.

You cannot relate them to the players who "shut up about it", because if players are splitting and not saying anything, then there's no proof of it, and therefore, they cannot be punished anyway. All players that are currently carded have admitted to it.

 

[Player-1]

M2K, character choice alone can't get you carded for anything which is why Ally didn't get carded at CoT5. And yes I know it's not with those intentions and I know it happened only one time and the one time you did you got carded for it, so the moral is just follow the rules and you'll be fine and everyone will be happy.

 

[Mew2King]

player1 that's makes no sense. He made it much harder for me to get top 2 at that tournament. I know it was not on purpose but neither is what I did, and i wasn't doing it with bad intentions either, so it's especially stupid

 

[Player-1]

I don't know the specifics of it, but that's just what members of the BBR-RC kept saying throughout the thread, I'm just telling you what they posted.

 

[Mew2King]

**** the BBR dude I left them a year ago. I know how they work. There are a few VERY biased people back there, especially anti-MK people back there, that NO MATTER WHAT U SAY, they will choose to vote the way that benefits them. Having a talk with a lot of my friends back then, I bet (we all seemed to agree) we think the government probably works this way too, and possibly many parts of life. Life's not always about what's fair, it can work in gay ways, if you get what I am saying.

 

[Bizkit047]

I was not thinking about that and no one was supposed to know but someone had to make a BLOG about it, and ally posted it on chibo's account in the brawl back room, and alex strife posted private convos in the back room too. just goes to show you can't trust anyone.

Every time you split you are at risk of one of the people involved screwing up. It is best not to split or forfeit in the first place so you are not put into any bad situation involving you.

Yes, I know that. That's why I apologized for that. What IS gay about it though is that people do this all the time, but only I get in trouble and made a big deal out of for it. As a result of ally getting 2nd seed in pools by going wolf, falcon, and many other random characters at clash of titans 5, he had to fight me in semis (or quarters i think semis though), and I had to beat like 3-4 more people before fighting him again as a result. I know it's not like he did that on purpose, but that actually made the tourney much harder for me, but no one cares, just like if anyone else does it, nobody cares.

We can't do anything if people don't want to go their mains, but if people admit to what they're doing, then that's the problem. Ally said he was still trying, and always tries. This is backed up by him going many characters in bracket these days. Whether or not Ally was trying really hard, character choice alone isn't enough of a reason. The point of the rule is to cut down on how much splitting or forfeiting, in pools or bracket, happens.

I'll use myself as an example. If I don't want to go Snake in bracket, that is my choice. I can't be carded unless I go "Oh well yea I forfeited because I was guaranteed out of the pool." Sad truth is that sandbagging in pools will happen and people will get screwed out of making it out every now and then. But doing it is not okay and admitting to it is Cardable.

fine I won't make it public anymore, but you DO see my point right? i already know people do it in secret all the time and I know some names too but I won't say anymore I guess since you can't say anything in the smash, or even fighting game communities without it being made a huge deal or different false stories and rumors about it being made up. Also, splitting was never against the rules until really recently, and I've been screwed out of thousands of total dollars, mostly from melee, just from being kind. Most of the time I've split it was out of being overly-nice to "friends" that were probably just using me to make more money when I was probably going to win the tournament (i was either waiting in GF or much more skilled than my opponent. They never wanted to when I had the disadvantage. I'm a fool

IIRC, Melee is the reason MLG came up with the splitting rule. Just because it was done back then does not mean it is still okay. It happens in ALL communities sometimes, but doing it is anti-competitive and bad for the scene, as our community found out the hard way from MLG. Also, I don't suggest essentially saying "I'll keep quiet." That just makes you a target by TOs and players who are going to point at you if you make any signs of splitting or forfeiting.

 

[Bizkit047]

**** the BBR dude I left them a year ago. I know how they work. There are a few VERY biased people back there, especially anti-MK people back there, that NO MATTER WHAT U SAY, they will choose to vote the way that benefits them. Having a talk with a lot of my friends back then, I bet (we all seemed to agree) we think the government probably works this way too, and possibly many parts of life. Life's not always about what's fair, it can work in gay ways, if you get what I am saying.

The BBR =/= BBR-RC. Not the same people.

 

[Mew2King]

I don't care, I probably won't even do it anymore but I'm not going to say a lie. if I do ill just keep quiet. People are gonna make all the accusations they want anyway. I'm -- always -- the bad guy.

 

[Thebest1pj]

People always tryna **** on jason for no reason .

It's like with cheese people who have never met him say they hate him because others said they do.effin bandwagon hatin goin on.

im wit team m2k

10kingtoons


jason just don't split or anything anymore destroy everyone and have fun.

 

[Chuee]

People always tryna **** on jason for no reason .

It's like with cheese people who have never met him say they hate him because others said they do.effin bandwagon hatin goin on.

To be fair, there's people that know cheese that hate him.

 

[Tesh]

Honestly, as gay as M2K plays, I can see why if he had a personal issue on his mind, he might forfeit. Last thing you wanna stack on top of that is 200 people crying "bawwwww, he timeout on rainbow cruise, i wish he would just go away".

Personally I love how M2K plays, and I'm a little sad when I don't get to see it.

 

[Jack Kieser]

M2K, let's make a couple of things very clear, for everyone's sake.

No one here is actually accusing you of "malicious" bracket manipulation. Or at least, no one serious is. You probably don't remember, but I certainly remember meeting you and talking (for a short time) with you at WHOBO years ago. I'm a pretty decent judge of character (I'm pretty empathetic and the +5 perception helps), and even after that short time, I could tell that the kind of "malicious intent" crap that's being slung around right now doesn't fit your M.O.; honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if those thoughts never once crossed your mind (to manipulate maliciously).

Sure, you're right about one thing: there are people who will **** on you no matter what because of your position. And, regarding those people, seriously... **** them. Don't even give them the time of day, IRL or on SWF. But, the people who really care here? They are judging you so harshly right now not because of jealousy about your skill / power / position, but because of respect for you and what you represent in our community.

You are, skill-wise, literally our best right now. Whether you want to be or not, or whether you asked for it or not, you are a symbol in the community, a figure that's held up as emblematic of the entire culture of Smashers. That's to be expected because you're #1 right now. That also means that you have a proportional amount of burden placed on you to be an example for the rest of the community.

Think about that for a second. I'm sure you have before, but think of it again in the context of match splitting and "manipulation".

Whether you like it or not, the way you conduct yourself on AND off the stage affects how other Smashers conduct themselves on and off the stage, and in turn has long-lasting and far-reaching effects on both the internal community perception (what we think of ourselves) AND the external perception of the Smash community (by other gamers, by other pros, by sponsors...). You have a LOT of pressure on your right now to conduct yourself in a manner that's 100x more professional than anyone else, because you're the standard.

Sucks, but it's true. I'll tell you, I don't envy you. But that's your responsibility as #1. And that responsibility will change hands to whoever takes #1 away from you, eventually.

So, try to keep that in mind when you read these threads and reflect upon all of your actions: before, during, and after Genesis 2.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

okay I definitely have a few things I wanna say

1) ive been splitting a lot of tourneys since 2006, JUST TO BE NICE. I used to split all the time with pc and Chu, but ONLY after I surpassed them both in skill. They never split with me before I got better than them. I did it because I'm overly too nice, and the grand total money I've lost from splitting is probably near 5000 dollars by now in the past 5 years.

2) I don't do any of that **** to do bracket manipulation, I did it because I COULDNT PLAY (and in some cases, just didn't care. I did not have malicious intentions though). IN FACT I'm victim to Ken throwing his set with Chu so that Ken could beat me after I took out Azen at MLG Chicago in 2006, so that they could split top two. I could have easily done better than 3rd had that not happened. At Ktar I had some VERY personal stuff in my life (NOT smash related) ****ing me up that happened later in that day, and I COULDNT bring myself to play any more matches. At Genesis2, when Sade was the last person in my pool, I was guaranteed first seed anyway, AND it was just pools with many people making it out anyway, so I just used characters I don't really ever play just so it'd be more fun. i almost won with falco on brinstar actually. I didn't do it with the intentions of THROWING games. For that case, I can see what I did was wrong, but it was NOT with malicious intent.

3) people only care about it the very few times I've done it. No one ever gives a **** when Texas does 3 way splits or anti and adhd split for like 100 tournaments in a row or all these other players split with each other, all the time. You guys are biased as ****, so **** you all for that

I know Bizkit replied but I will also.

1. Why are you being nice in this scenario? You don't need to impress anyone..you do that already by being one the best players in the world. If you're just doing it to be nice, then lol. Play you YOU.

2. No one said you had "malicious" intent behind your actions. Or at least no one from our group said so. We still believe what you did was wrong. That's all. Also I agree what Bizkit said in response to your post.

3. We looked into the most recent Texas incident and talked with UTDZac about it. ADHD and Anti still have Yellow Cards. We looked into Ally, we've carded other people...don't play the victim role here. I do think we may have acted way too rashly here, yes and I would like to apologize. But, playing the victim role here is pointless. You have a history that people know about (MLG). We can't just ignore that. Do you honestly think, I enjoy having to do this? In a perfect world we wouldn't have to adopt an infraction system people would do the right thing or AT LEAST BE SMART ENOUGH TO KEEP THINGS UNDER WRAP. But that isn't the case. We are here to try to better the community and some ethics have to be laid out. It has nothing to do with "LETS SEE HOW WE CAN **** JASON!!" because its not like that. I don't care what the people who meatride you all day say, I am speaking for myself and the BBR RC. We don't hate you lol. Its a video game...not worth those kind of emotions.

Also the BBR RC is NOT the BBR. Two different things. lol Most of the BBR RC isn't in the BBR anyway. Just so you know.

We understand if you hate us but there really doesn't have to be this tension between us. I'm just speaking to you. Not your fanboys, not ADHD, Anti or whoever feels the need to talk to you. We don't enjoy doing this. Once again I'm apologizing for all this.

 

[DewDaDash]

I really don't understand why its so hard to keep **** under the table. Like you can develop the metagame like no other and yet you cant keep hidden a split or a pools forfeit? Just play the match out win/loss doesn't really matter and split afterwords w/o anyone knowing besides who u split with and play with semi-believable characters in pools. I don't get why I always see this shenanigans on the boards.

Its obvious why m2k would split with ppl, be it right or wrong. He sees this as a job and is trying to be financially stable obviously.

The only thing this rule does is, is it makes the scene look more "professional" but in all honesty it probably doesn't stop perhaps like more than 90% of the splits that actually occur still.

Its yourself making yourself get banned. I don't know if the reason is because the ppl u split with tell other ppl about the split and the message reaches others, but if thats the case then stop splitting w/ those specific ppl. All of this is simple logic really..

 

[Rockenos]

Everytime I feel like I might want to get into Brawl instead of just Melee, something like this happens. M2k's just tired of smash. It's his only job, and he's been doing it for years. If he takes a break, he doesn't eat. You really can't blame the guy for just noy wanting to play... And the fact the rules committee basically says "Ypu have to try your very hardest every match and thoroughly enjoy it OR ELSE" takes all the fun out of a game that I don't even like as much as melee in the casual scene. You'd think their tournament scene would be great to make up for this. You'd think wrong.


In spite of that, I do love watching Brawl, good **** at Genesis ESam, m2k, ADHD, ally, etc.

EDIT: Really tho, the fact that a group of people can just say "I'm bored. I'm gonna go pick on m2k to feel better about myself" and then M2k effectively loses his job for 4 weeks really shines a bad light on the bbrrc.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

The last line of your post is one the dumbest things I have read in a long time.

We do not do this because we're bored and want to pick on Mew2King. We do this because we want to have a presentable, mature community that can be taken seriously. I think the fact all of these incidents occurs shines a worse light on the community as a whole. I am willing to take some of the heat, if my actions can help guide the community in the right place.

 

[Rockenos]

The last line of your post is one the dumbest things I have read in a long time.

Really?! You must not have heard the news, did you hear the bbr rc said that m2k is temporarily banned from a video game for flirting? Cus that's pretty dumb.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Oh, get off your iPhone and do something important, smart-***.

 

[Rockenos]

It's 1am.
...
Yeah...
I'm going to sleep.
Night all.


Edit: nevermind, I'm not really that tired. Idk, we'll see.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Oh, get off your iPhone and do something important, smart-***.

Trolls aren't worth the response.

 

[Chuee]

Really?! You must not have heard the news, did you hear the bbr rc said that m2k is temporarily banned from a video game for flirting? Cus that's pretty dumb.

Yeah, him giving Sade a win is clearly flirting.
Please enlighten us poor people on your superior knowledge of flirting.

 

[Rockenos]

Yeah, him giving Sade a win is clearly flirting.
Please enlighten us poor people on your superior knowledge of flirting.

Uh.. Why'd you take this as an assault against you? I wasn't trying to say I knew more about flirting than you...
He was just having a little fun and trying to be nice... You know... Flirting.

Jeeze, this must be why half the threads on the Brawl competetive ruleset discussion forums are locked lol.

 

[Javon89]

Uh.. Why'd you take this as an assault against you? I wasn't trying to say I knew more about flirting than you...
He was just having a little fun and trying to be nice... You know... Flirting.

Jeeze, this must be why half the threads on the Brawl competetive ruleset discussion forums are locked lol.

I don't think M2K is that dumb to even consider a move like that as flirting.

 

[Rockenos]

I don't think M2K is that dumb to even consider a move like that as flirting.

Yeah, I guess I forgot that he was actually conspiring in secret with every other player in attendance to alter the results of the tournament. My bad.


Edit: Yeah I'm actually gonna sleep now... When I literally can't think of anything not sarcastic to say I guess it's time to call it quits. Tomorrow I'll probably have a legit argument for M2K, not that it matters, but I hope that if enough people give well thought opinions, maybe the BBR RC will reconsider their actions.

Double edit: I thought it was really obvious my first statement in this post was sarcastic, but just in case it wasn't obvious I again alluded to it in my edit... Apparently that was not enough. The first statement in this post is sarcasm. The one after the quote but before the edit. /facepalm

 

[Javon89]

Yeah, I guess I forgot that he was actually conspiring in secret with every other player in attendance to alter the results of the tournament. My bad.

That is so incorrect, do you even know the full story? Stop creating rumors. Otherwise he wouldn't have admit he manipulated the brackets if every other player knew.

 

[Chuee]

Uh.. Why'd you take this as an assault against you? I wasn't trying to say I knew more about flirting than you...
He was just having a little fun and trying to be nice... You know... Flirting.

Jeeze, this must be why half the threads on the Brawl competetive ruleset discussion forums are locked lol.

No, I was joking.
Still, I highly doubt M2K was flirting by giving her a win LOL. Just trying to imagine something flirting by doing that is laughable.