Ok, who got their money from Pound 5 (Winners)

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I said it once, and I'll say it again.

I miss KishPrime.

):

 

[황미영]

Mooney, I'm KISHiru. ;D

Do I count? ; A;

 

[bryu_1337]

Amateur brackets got paid from what i heard.

so, plank paid out to the amateur bracket but not the pro bracket? that's such a crock of ****. these dudes earned their money and should not lose money at the expense of plank's incompetence to see a dire situation before hand, if that's the case and he didn't steal the money.

anyone on here saying it's the smashers faults are just plain stupid. yeah they cancelled and stuffed the rooms, but this doesn't change the fact that plank essentially banked on the fact that he would have over 500 people there to compete. his fault, not the smashers.

i've run local shows where I had way less kids show up and couldn't pay the band from door fees alone. you know what i did? I went and took money out of my savings account (money that i had saved for college) and payed the bands what i promised. i was out a couple hundred bucks, but it is in no way right for me to short the band the money i promised. if plank told hbox he'd get 700, he owes him 700 ****ing dollars. he owes everyone their money with no johns, even if it cripples him financially. if the players are willing to take less like hbox said he was, then he should consider himself lucky that he has less to pay out. it's a ***** move on his part. be a man, plank. pay off your debts and don't let your misfortune and incompetence reflect upon those you made promises to

 

[Armada]

How many people thought Plank would attend?
No one have get their price money so that should be 9k? maybe even more

 

[LLDL]

WAIT WAIT WAIT. This **** is serious?

I guess this being rigged isn't as much of a surprise then:

Not to mention his R3 Pool.

Also Plank had Mango in Round 1 at P5, but he lost anyway, rofl.

..Rigged? There are not many players who can beat IB, HBK and ka-master back to back. He gave himself a **** bracket, plank is actually really good.

 

[Mic_128]

s
i've run local shows where I had way less kids show up and couldn't pay the band from door fees alone. you know what i did? I went and took money out of my savings account (money that i had saved for college) and payed the bands what i promised. i was out a couple hundred bucks, but it is in no way right for me to short the band the money i promised. if plank told hbox he'd get 700, he owes him 700 ****ing dollars. he owes everyone their money with no johns, even if it cripples him financially. if the players are willing to take less like hbox said he was, then he should consider himself lucky that he has less to pay out. it's a ***** move on his part. be a man, plank. pay off your debts and don't let your misfortune and incompetence reflect upon those you made promises to

I wish people would stop acting as if he has the money but isn't paying them.

He spent the prize moneys and his own cash on the hotel bill, which if what I heard is correct, worked out about 9 grand. He seems to be the type that if he had the cash he'd pay it out. But he doesn't, so can't. I'm not saying it's much better, but don't paint the picture that he's at home laughing with a wallet full of cash.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

lol angsty brawl players.


vous savez je t'aime ally, mais ce n'est vraiment pas la peine...

 

[ranmaru]

so, plank paid out to the amateur bracket but not the pro bracket? that's such a crock of ****. these dudes earned their money and should not lose money at the expense of plank's incompetence to see a dire situation before hand, if that's the case and he didn't steal the money.

anyone on here saying it's the smashers faults are just plain stupid. yeah they cancelled and stuffed the rooms, but this doesn't change the fact that plank essentially banked on the fact that he would have over 500 people there to compete. his fault, not the smashers.

i've run local shows where I had way less kids show up and couldn't pay the band from door fees alone. you know what i did? I went and took money out of my savings account (money that i had saved for college) and payed the bands what i promised. i was out a couple hundred bucks, but it is in no way right for me to short the band the money i promised. if plank told hbox he'd get 700, he owes him 700 ****ing dollars. he owes everyone their money with no johns, even if it cripples him financially. if the players are willing to take less like hbox said he was, then he should consider himself lucky that he has less to pay out. it's a ***** move on his part. be a man, plank. pay off your debts and don't let your misfortune and incompetence reflect upon those you made promises to

I agree. People have to cancel sometimes, real life johns. The contract was to have the cheaper rooms correct? Cheaper rooms would = Hopefully more people coming. Expesive rooms = Less hype. Less hype, less people, less payout. (Yet, now there probably isn't any)

I think the cost of all this was due to how big the event was. If there was no deal, the rooms would have been even more expensive. ****, I HATED how expensive it was. (Plus, our room wasn't ready when we came, I salty)
If the rooms were at full price, I'd probably have to bail.

So it was either better experience (since it was his last one) or just a big tournament with less people due to super expensive rooms. Also, I don't like not being near food markets. I don't want to eat at restaurants all the time. TO's, take note of this. It would help. : D

I just think he wanted more people here. This doesn't look like a situation where he hoarded the money to himself, yet he relied on people coming, that was a mistake. We all should learn from this as a community.

I also feel bad for the winners. I would say to try to act a little more mature, but you have a right to act the way you are acting because this was a mistake on his part.

You all must find a way to pay the people/organizations back who have lent you money to get to va or stay there for now. I don't know about suing. But if Plank has a job, then I think it would be better for your relationships with him (and his with the community) to check with him regularly and set up a payment plan. It seems that suing would have us lose too. But why is he unfriending people on facebook? Hopefully this is temporary. I think he should face the whole community instead of unfriend people. He took the risk, now he must be there for the people who lost out due to his mistake.

Everyone who didn't win: Don't forget, that the winners also may have to find ways to somehow pay people back, like Armada. So don't call them whiners or *****es, they are having a stressful time now. Both Plank and winners are probaly feeling like ****. Even if the winners didn't NEED the money, I'm sure they'd feel partial stress because they worked hard to get it. It would be like working a whole week at a place and noticing the place was phoney, and your check bounced. How would you feel about that? Oh, you'd be fine with that, eh?

Also, we should try to learn from HIS mistake as a community. For example, I am starting out to be a TO myself (I already hosted one tourny) and I just realized how scary that is. Damn. Although I'm a cheap ***, so I'd try to get a good and cheap venue, and make sure that the venue fee covers the cost. Like, I'd want a flat line fee for the venue, that's it. OH HEY ITS LIKE... $200. So I'm like "K, so that's $10 per person in hopefully a 40 man tourny" If like 37 came, I'd pay the rest myself. Also, this reminds me that we should also be very careful with the money, and make sure no one is near it. Trust me, I'll tell my staff to stay at the damn ****ing table, ****. lol. (They gotta work on that) Although I had instances where they weren't there and I had to get up (I'd double back tho)

@Plank: Please make a thread of how you are thinking to solve this issue. That might help people ease their minds and at least see you are putting an effort to end this money issue. Also I guess you realize the risk of bigger experience or just bland experience but usual pay is now too big. Also, let's be realistic and not choose an expensive hotel the next time you host. Also, why was this your last tournament again? (I think players wouldn't mind a cheaper venue) You seem like a great guy, so I hope you come on the boards and post more. Don't try to evade the smasher's wrath. Instead post a thread, asking about thoughts for you to help patch things up.

 

[mallu000]

I think Plank did the right thing when paying the hotel first cause:

1. that way things can hopefully be solved within the community and without anyone going to the court which I personally find really stupid and as the worst case scenario, most that stuff would just add expenses to everyone without really achieving anything at all. Seriously do you think you can win a case like that?

2. Imagine that you owe almost 10.000 $ to a hotel, you'd be paying that for probably like 2-4 years of off your salary and the interests would make it so that you'd probably end up paying much more than just ten grands, maybe even something like 15.000 $. I don't know Plank's socio-economic status but in this case he'd have to forget any dreams about college, career or anything at all. And of course he'd have to give or sell for money anything he owes, not sure 'bout the law in the states in this case but that's very likely the case. Bye bye car, tv, computer and everything.

I mean paying smashers and not the hotel would just wreck his whole life for a long long time and imagine the mental stress he'd have to go trough along with all the hate and anger he already receives from everyone. If you think that's OK because he made some big miscalculations and mistakes then that's just cold. Really have at least some humanity towards him and contact him personally if you have reasons to do so but please stop speculating and bashing him, it just doesn't help anything.

One thing that crossed my mind is that if this has happened many times before like M2K states why you still do the same mistakes by trusting people when it comes to these kind of amounts of money? I mean if I had spent over 500 $ on something and was expecting maybe one or two grands I'd sure as hell make some papers on everything about it. I think it's just naive to trust people on these things even in a community like this. If you can make the papers and make sure that you don't get screwed why not do so? Doing a promissory note (if I remember the word in English correctly) is not a big deal.

And that's just my two cents as an outsider to this whole mess. I feel really bad that this kind of awful stuff even happens and hope that you could change your system and made sure in the future that this kind of stuff never happens again.

 

[BigWenz]

so, plank paid out to the amateur bracket but not the pro bracket? that's such a crock of ****. these dudes earned their money and should not lose money at the expense of plank's incompetence to see a dire situation before hand, if that's the case and he didn't steal the money.

the reason AM bracket was paid on the spot was cause the money was taken up for it on the spot. the money for the actual tournament was paid via paypal and with no internet at the venue + the fact that we were rushed out of there, dont think he could have paid anyone on the spot.

 

[iFudge]

I mean if plank would just come out and show proof that he had to pay the hotel, then i think alot of ppl would understand,
Instead of him just saying sorry then going missing in action and pretty much dissing everybody.
which makes him seem like he is hiding something, and not refusing to pay.

a simple screenshot of the bill from the hotel,

 

[ranmaru]

Should I guess we should ask the hotel then. I mean we stayed there, so shouldn't we have a right to see what he had to pay?

 

[Lobos]

No it doesn't work that way lol

 

[ranmaru]

Whattt? It doesn't? Damn. :/

 

[Shenanigans]

You should always expect room cramming because most gamers are poor, young, or both.
you should expect no shows: standby flights, overbooked hotels, etc.

Doesn't make it right. The way it sounds, half of those who showed up should take som responsibility for this mishap. I wasn't able to make it to the tourney due to my job. Though it seems as though half of those who went helped with the progression of the problem.

 

[ranmaru]

Can you explain how half of those who went helped with the problem?

 

[NeutralDamage]

We should make a donation topic for the possible law suit costs, that may come. For the Justice! It's never wrong, right? =]

 

[Tesh]

Plank is a coward and should be brought to justice. Some of those top players were only able to travel because they thought they would be able to make that money back. It doesn't matter what the hotel would have done to him if he lost. It was his mistake and he stole prize money to protect himself. His personal financial troubles aren't the problem of the community. He should have paid out the winners and borrowed money from close friends/family if he needed to. You can't just steal money from people because they attended the event where you screwed up. He should have planned better. People need to stop trying to be MLG. This is exactly why Smash isn't on the circuit. IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU ANY MONEY! If he is even half decent at planning an event (and surely he knows this community well enough to know how cheap they can be) he wouldn't have had the hotel issue with the rooms. People were going to cram into rooms, so he should have just gotten then NO DEAL. 20 people in a 4 person room don't need 10% off.

And its not just an issue for the 22 people that are owed money. Every person that entered an event at Pound had an expectation of where that money would go. If I donate 20 dollars to the Red Cross and they spent it plastic keychains for rich people instead of food for poor people, would it be acceptable for them to say "well you weren't going to get any of that money back personally anyway". And people are just accepting his word after he stole thousands of dollars and offered no proof at all.

There should definitely be some accountability here. He took thousands of dollars and ran. He SHOULD be taken to court. At the very least, he should be found and forced to offer proof and eventual payment. If he has debts, he should sell his assets. Does Plank have a car?


At least some tournaments will be paying cold hard cash on the spot.

 

[SleepyK]

i wasn't arguing whether it was right or not. it happens, it always will happen, and as a TO (especially a smash TO) you should expect it. especially one as seasoned as plank.

 

[ArcNatural]

Can you explain how half of those who went helped with the problem?

Quite simply if you properly limited the amount of people per room (say to 5 people) whatever cost associated to the hotel probably would of been covered. From what it sounds like, Plank got destroyed because he didn't achieve his quota requirements for the hotel even though the hotel gave him a big discount, plus venue fee etc.

I'm not defending plank in anyway because I have no understanding of what his costs were.

The few things that should of happened that Plank should of considered (obviously too late now but feel like saying something). Is he should of made his quotas public. Or at the least let it be known exactly how many rooms needed to be taken so he wouldn't of gotten screwed.

Maybe he did this I don't know. From what I gather, he probably thought he was close enough that he could use some of the prize money to cover the rest and still have enough for decent payouts. Clearly something went wrong here and this is not what happened.

He can not blame the community, I like the guy, and I feel very bad for how much effort he put it to have it blow up in his face so badly. I really doubt that he would do anything as shady as ManaCloud. It's just really unfortunate that nothing good will come from this.

I'm really just sorry for everyone. I hope that we as a Melee community can work together to help the players hurt financially by this situation.

 

[-ACE-]

Seriously, winners should have been paid, and then the community help plank. NOT take the winners money they rightfully earned, use it to save your own ***, and say sorry while people of the community (most of which have already paid to go to pound, which was expensive already) donate to the winners who got screwed over (taking up plank's slack).

But like I said before, I don't think we know anything for certain quite yet.

EDIT: on the room cramming: How on earth could you not expect that, especially with the cost of attending this tournament and with the large number of individuals that came from out of state/region/country? Lots of people barely had enough funds to make their attendance possible, even with planning on cramming in rooms in advance... Think about what the attendance would have been like if all the people that couldn't afford to get their own room (or split it with 1-3 other people) just didn't attend. I doubt that would have made matters any better.

 

[ArcNatural]

-Ace-

I completely understand the room cramming. It should of been expected, and it shouldn't be used as an excuse to why there were no payouts.

I agree that payouts probably should of came first before Plank's troubles even if he would disagree. Either way he is still in trouble because their is no way that the prize pool money can be used in such a manner without consequences. It's basically hosting a huge tournament to pay your bills. Just because the bill is related to the tournament is of no consequence.

 

[Shenanigans]

Can you explain how half of those who went helped with the problem?

Well, in my opinion, if u are going to commit then u need to commit all the way. I'm not demeaning anyone but i always grew up with the belief that anywhere u go, if u can't completely cover everything yourself financially then u prolly shouldn't go. Or atleast with minimal outside help.

These tourneys are great, though it just seems like a lot of people are I'll equipped financially to partake in these events.

I'm not saying what happened should be condoned, and **** happens but I believe the community did fail in some aspects of this, such as room hoarding or w/e it's called.

This is just my personal take on things. Is plank responsible? Yes, though I believe he took that mantle because he thought he could believe in his community. Was it the smartest thing? No, it wasn't. Although I don't think he was wrong for trying to.

I believe that we as a community failed and are still failing in this situation for:
Not showing up
Being cheap
Blaming a guy for an event he more than likely tried to make fun.

If this is how we treat one of our own, then I believe we need to stop and think about what it is we're aiming for.

We need to come up with a solution to the problem and not add to it. Plan better in the future and have back up plans.

I respected PPs post. I have to thank him for keeping a level head. I know most smashers respect top players points of view.

 

[Reizilla]

So, since there's no money, does P5 noy get counted for the SWF rankings?

Sorry, Ally

 

[AlphaZealot]

I'm not saying what happened should be condoned, and **** happens but I believe the community did fail in some aspects of this, such as room hoarding or w/e it's called.

Without the room hoarding most of those people, and we are talking a lot of people, would simply have stayed home. It is really a null factor - most Smashers were not about to spend the $150ish it would have cost per person to split a room 4 ways for 3 nights, on top of the $45-$60 in tournament fees, and again on top of whatever the travel expenses were. I mean you are looking at a total of like $200-$300, which for people strapped for cash is just to much. You could have bought an Xbox 360 instead going to pound if you were only splitting a room 4 ways.

 

[ranmaru]

Sigh. I really would rather have housing and cheap hotels.

Are there people who would rather have the risk and the expensive hotels?

 

[GHNeko]

Room cramming is a Smasher's Sin.



Can we get like a "Smashers Moral List" or "Smash Commandments" or "Rules of Smash Club" or some**** like that for this community to follow so we can stop ****ing ourselves in *** with an infinite amount of dildos?

Cuz this community is looking really shoddy right now.

 

[Shenanigans]

Without the room hoarding most of those people, and we are talking a lot of people, would simply have stayed home. It is really a null factor - most Smashers were not about to spend the $150ish it would have cost per person to split a room 4 ways for 3 nights, on top of the $45-$60 in tournament fees, and again on top of whatever the travel expenses were. I mean you are looking at a total of like $200-$300, which for people strapped
for cash is just to much. You could have bought an Xbox 360 instead going to pound if you were only splitting a room 4 ways.

That's why I feel people were I'll equipped financially. Don't get me wrong, I admire the tenacity to go. Though at the same time plank could have made it easier on himself and told everyone to find their own accommodations.

From past experience I'm going to guess there was a thread with advertisements for pound 5. With people saying if they were going to attend. Were the estimate numbers for the turnout out at the tourney based off that? Just curious.

 

[HolyNightmare]

I do love how Plank is still reading everything about the incident and is not doing **** about it.

Plairnkk
Last Activity: Today 09:59 AM

I can practically see him laughing with the 9k suitcase while he's reading this.

 

[NeutralDamage]

^This

"They thought PP won, but I'll show them who really won". Play to win, hardcore, Plank wins.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol shenanigans. Middle and high schoolers ill equipped financially. That's funny. As a TO you have to plan for that, to say the least.

 

[SleepyK]

That's why I feel people were I'll equipped financially. Don't get me wrong, I admire the tenacity to go. Though at the same time plank could have made it easier on himself and told everyone to find their own accommodations.

From past experience I'm going to guess there was a thread with advertisements for pound 5. With people saying if they were going to attend. Were the estimate numbers for the turnout out at the tourney based off that? Just curious.

have you never been to a national? even if they could afford a room comfortably by themselves, people will cram into a room to save money and to room with their friends.

of course they're going to be lacking financially. you expect this of smashers. as i said, most of them are poor, young, or both. they have a history and this is how it goes.

would you rather split 150 or however much it was with 2 people or with 8?
to any smasher who stretched it to buy a plane ticket to pound (which is most of or all of them) it's a no brainer. this is a once in a lifetime tournament that is happening far away where a bunch of other people will be traveling to attend. if you are truly devoted to the game, would you stretch your budget to go?

is the hotel actually going to check every single room for cramming, especially when people are wandering the entire time, going from room to room playing video games?

once again, i'm not arguing whether it's right or wrong to cram into a hotel room. i'm just pointing out why people do it and why it is guaranteed to happen at any smash tournament

 

[Strong Badam]

I honestly can't imagine cramming more than 4 people into those hotel rooms. It felt pretty cramped with just 4.

I'm not saying anything about Plank until he posts if he intends to pay the smashers back eventually. It was good to meet you Jon, regardless.

 

[SleepyK]

with me it's always PILE ON THE DUDES

 

[Laijin]

Well, this might be a little extreme, but something to think about.

*Amateur brackets:
-Plank originally planned for an amateur bracket for each round of pool, meaning there would be 3 amateur brackets + the pro bracket
-Each amateur bracket was a $10 entry fee, which was a separate fee from entering pools
-If Plank originally planned to scam people and run with the money, then organizing all these amateur brackets could've been another scheme for him to make more money. I heard that Laijin was supposed to get $200 for winning 1st place in the Round 1 amateur bracket. If there was enough time to do the other amateur brackets, then that's like another easy $1000 in plank's pocket. And if Brawl had the amateur brackets too (but I don't think they did), that would've been like $500 or so.

This is just extreme conspiracy lol but again, something to think about.

I got my fight money

 

[DJRome]

yo plank is the master planner yo

all u *****z defending his is str8 according to plan to distract everyone while he laughs at home

 

[Matador]

Seriously, winners should have been paid, and then the community help plank. NOT take the winners money they rightfully earned, use it to save your own ***, and say sorry while people of the community (most of which have already paid to go to pound, which was expensive already) donate to the winners who got screwed over (taking up plank's slack).

I highly doubt the community would have the same sympathy for him as they do for the winners who didn't get paid.

I'm almost certain that there'd be one half who's donating whatever they can to help Plank pay off his debt (while the Hyatt is practically bending him over a chair in court) and another half wagging their fingers saying, "why should we have to pay for his mistakes? He should've done 'A' 'B' and 'C' differently so that 'X' 'Y' and 'Z' wouldn't have happened!" and not paying a dime.

Not only that, but do you seriously believe the community could raise that kinda money?

Realistically, I think Plank made the right decision. He just shouldn't have gone into hiding, imo.

 

[ranmaru]

I don't think he made the right decision realistically. Matador, could you explain why you think his decision was realistic?

 

[DJRome]

well, it's realistic given it's better for him and smashers don't take action

 

[ranmaru]

Aren't M2k Ally doing something? I know Dr pp forgave him , but it's the winner's money. I dunno about Armada.