Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Yeah, i have problems with falco too.
But i feel like i have more options and gimmicks against falco than i do diddy kong.

 

[Dakpo]

I have a little trouble with MK, but if im the better player than i can come out on top. Im starting to love the diddy match up soo much. Its soo challenging and fun.
Also, screw falco (going IC)

 

[solecalibur]

Rames, what grab releases are you thinking of?

I can grab release mk to regrab or to dash attack (utilt if they don't DI)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Characters who no-pummel break to the air AND can be hit with an aerial (Always guaranteed aerial):
Mario, Wario, Toon Link, Ice Climber, Kirby, Olimar, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, Ness, Lucas, Game and Watch.
Characters who can be hit with an aerial BUT no-input break to the ground (guaranteed aerial IF they resist):
Donkey Kong, Charizard, Ike.

These + all of MKs + the secret sv thingy on mk

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Does anyone have vid of regrab?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Just buffer a dash and grab...

 

[Deathfox30]

Does anyone have vid of regrab?

I think Nick does it in his combo video. It's the same input as the buffered chain grab on D3 and Snake.

 

[Zero]

No it's not the same input. It's a aerial grab re-release. The chaingrab is fthrow regrab.

 

[Deathfox30]

No it's not the same input. It's a aerial grab re-release. The chaingrab is fthrow regrab.

I just meant buffering the dash grab after the F throw/Grab release is the same for both.

 

[Blubolouis]

Sorry for intruding..

Characters who can be hit with an aerial BUT no-input break to the ground (guaranteed aerial IF they resist):
Donkey Kong, Charizard, Ike.

what does this mean, exactly? If I struggle but don't press the jump button (and with tap jump off) I'll still release in the air?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I just meant buffering the dash grab after the F throw/Grab release is the same for both.

Thats because buffering is a 10frame window and is the same for EVERY move lol

 

[Sky Pirate]

Hello, ZSSs... ZSS players? Too many "S"s.
Anyway, the Olimars are discussing the ZSS match-up.
Your input would be appreciated because this match-up is rather strange.

 

[MT Zehvor]

...soo...back to the topic of Meta Knight...

If it's equal skill, I think Meta Knight has an advantage, no question. It's not an un-overcomeable advantage, but it isn't a matchup you'd want any day.

-MT

 

[Deathfox30]

...soo...back to the topic of Meta Knight...

If it's equal skill, I think Meta Knight has an advantage, no question. It's not an un-overcomeable advantage, but it isn't a matchup you'd want any day.

-MT

lol This is true for all characters vs Mk.

 

[solecalibur]

The thing is, we do well, but we still dont win the matchup

Anything said has probly been said b4 though

 

[MT Zehvor]

Yeah. The ZSS player can be better and MK still will have an advantage.

-MT

 

[Zero]

That's the definition of a bad matchup, yep.

 

[FEAR977]

Is it possible to air release MK and then side b?

 

[solecalibur]

Is it possible to air release MK and then side b?

Nope, only to regrab (work on timing) or to dash attack (they should be able to DI out and shuttle loop you though)

 

[Deathfox30]

You can Uair or Fair too. Fair is really hard to hit and it might not hit him before he can shuttle loop or air dodge, but it's close.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Usmash too.

Id experiment with all the options but no wii lolol

 

[Deathfox30]

I just tested everything. We only have Uair, Fair, regrab, dash attack and U smash. I noticed we get a pretty big backwards boost on wavebounce plasma whip while testing stuff. It could help a lot with spacing and it's not very hard to do with a default control scheme (c-bounce method).

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Try step > regrab and step > fsmash. Frame-data wise it should work and the regrab has happened to me a few times while I tested other stuff, Im not sure if it works though. Needs frame-by-frame testing.

 

[Deathfox30]

Try step > regrab and step > fsmash. Frame-data wise it should work and the regrab has happened to me a few times while I tested other stuff, Im not sure if it works though. Needs frame-by-frame testing.

Step F smash looks like it hits just a little too late. He's almost touching the ground. Pummel > GR step F smash registers as a two hit combo in training mode though. I can't test it frame by frame.

I couldn't get step > regrab to work.

I think Down Throw > buffered initial dash jump cancelled Up B works on Mk. It's kinda hard but it would be really cool if we could get down throw > superspike up B > dash attack/f tilt/tech chase on Mk.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Step F smash looks like it hits just a little too late. He's almost touching the ground. Pummel > GR step F smash registers as a two hit combo in training mode though. I can't test it frame by frame.

I couldn't get step > regrab to work.

I think Down Throw > buffered initial dash jump cancelled Up B works on Mk. It's kinda hard but it would be really cool if we could get down throw > superspike up B > dash attack/f tilt/tech chase on Mk.

That last should be tested. Fsmash would be cool too, it should be the hitbox that actually kills. Otherwise its better to just practice fair lol

 

[Deathfox30]

F smash only does 6% to him and doesn't kill until about 200% from the center of FD.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I thought there was a hitbox that was hard to DI and killed pretty ok-ish =(

 

[Deathfox30]

I thought there was a hitbox that was hard to DI and killed pretty ok-ish =(

I think the strongest hitbox is about 3/4 of the way down the whip and kills horizontally at 90-ish

 

[Nefarious B]

You should test that hitbox to see if charge affects it, because that'd be awesome to have something that is actually useful out of shield break. Also if people could effectively aim that, land a dsmash and then reposition to hit with the good hitbox to kill lower than bair

 

[solecalibur]

God i havn't played in forever forgot usmash and uair lol

 

[Deathfox30]

I meant 90-ish from the edge of FD. And the knockback is almost completely horizontal. I think F smash could be really good for edgeguarding. We could probably hit them out of any get up option and be completely safe because of its range. And if it hits it's going to kill/gimp pretty early.

Bair is almost always better for killing out of D smash I think.

Charge actually made it weaker... I tested it on Mk at 93%. Uncharged killed, he lived charged. Same hitbox. :S

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Fsmash is good for edgeguarding thats well-known by now.

But not really acknowledged.

 

[Dakpo]

interesting, ill have to do some testing on that

 

[FEAR977]

Her F smash is so broken.

 

[infiniteV115]

Just for the sake of summary

ZSS has a grab-release chaingrab on MK, and also has a guaranteed uair out of grab-release (must be buffered properly, quite easy). Thus, an easy way to build up damage would be;

Dsmash>dsmash>grab-release chaingrab across the stage (pummeling at least once, depending on their damage)>uair once you get close to the edge of the stage(I believe pummeling refreshes your moves, so you'll have a fresh uair)

This is easier on certain stages than others of course. It barely requires any practice, it is very easy to do. The hardest part is probably landing the first dsmash, to be honest.

According to Deathfox30, we also have a guaranteed dash-attack out of a GR, as well as a fair (which is supposedly difficult). If this is true, even better. DAL or fair out of GR; either is great.

If your opponent nados and you have enough time to react(unlikely), nair or bair to hit MK out of it. You'll probably get the chance to nair more often than bair, but nair always does 10% and doesn't refresh other moves. Bair has better knockback and damage unless it's very stale.

Dsmash and downb have transcendent priority, so they will go right through nado and hit MK. However they're both extremely risky and unlikely to hit, so don't count on them. You can also grab MK out of nado, but again it's a bit risky because it's ZSS' grab (XD). These are really only for punishing your opponent's bad nados.

Remember, just because ZSS has many great options associated with her grab, that doesn't mean you should be going for it often. You will eat an fsmash/upB if you miss, so use it VERY carefully. If anything, only grab out of dsmash, neutralb, nado ending lag, etc.

If you can tell that MK is going to start a glide, fair him. If nothing else, uair (duh), utilt and dtilt are good in this matchup.

 

[Pktck]

It seems you're saving Falcon, the best, for last. So be it.

 

[Dakpo]

Falcon vs Zss
If zss player is awake---> zss wins <3

 

[DRN]

Falcon vs Zss
If zss player is awake---> zss wins <3

Lol you should play Reflex then.

 

[Pktck]

True dat. Both characters are nice comboers and if the Falcon isn't stupidly aggressive or stupidly defensive, he/she can put up quite the fight to any, and yes I said any, character.

Well, maybe not pikachu or iceclimbers, but it's hard to give a fight to a character with a single move that does 100+ damage or so on ya. ....****in' chaingrabbing... -.-

 

[Dakpo]

Lol you should play Reflex then.

I didn't know reflex used falcon! Thats awesome to hear, But my statement stands