Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread

[Dakpo]

we need to retouch some matches

 

[Dakpo]

hellz yea http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOH1JL6lhFI&feature=sub

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Imagine a Falco being so dumb when recovering, lovely.

 

[Zero]

lol Ramses, if you guess right and time right, it could happen to you.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I don't play that bird anymore

 

[Dakpo]

Lets get this going... lets do sonic or Diddy Please...maybe even snake

 

[Cheeszeman_]

Maybe sum pika? I would really appreciate some halp there.

 

[TheZeroSuit]

We will start with sonic , Dont feel like updating OP but the new MU thread should be ready soon, Im getting lazy


We will have Diddy and Pikachu as our first exports after this discussion


Sonic

 

[Dakpo]

well considering me and nick both lost to sonics at MLG, i really feel we should review this match up. First off, neutral B ***** in this match up. When sonic hits you with side B or Down B, always lean with him (that way he can land bair). Never grab (they can run across the entire stage and punish with Fsmash.....its happened _) not much else i can say

 

[shlike]

If sonic is just spamming stupid spindash crap just punish it oos. That's what i do and it works for me. Also you have no reason to approach sonic whatsoever. If you have the lead, abuse that.

 

[NickRiddle]

If sonic is just spamming stupid spindash crap just punish it oos. That's what i do and it works for me. Also you have no reason to approach sonic whatsoever. If you have the lead, abuse that.

And then he does spindash > grab.
Yup.

 

[shlike]

the spindash grab has weird properties. He can't do it from across the stage and it's also cancelled I'm not really sure. Point is you can see it coming, and if you notice that he's spamming it, spotdodge or roll behind him or jab, or ftilt, or da, or neutral b, I honestly think the sonic is mu is not all that difficult, I go fairly even with espy and he's one of the best sonics. I think zss wins 55:45 or maybe even 6:4

 

[Paw]

also the spin charge invincibilty on picto and yi can be stopped by holding jab. they can PS the 3rd jab so try to mix it up after the 2nd.

 

[Zero]

ZSS wins this EZ, just don't let Sonic get the lead.

 

[Espy Rose]

well considering me and nick both lost to sonics at MLG, i really feel we should review this match up. First off, neutral B ***** in this match up. When sonic hits you with side B or Down B, always lean with him (that way he can land bair). Never grab (they can run across the entire stage and punish with Fsmash.....its happened _) not much else i can say

The problem with leaning into a Sonic after a successful Spin Dash Roll, is that he can follow up with a nair or uair if you lean into us during the hit.

DI up = uair
DI into Sonic = nair or uair
DI down or no DI = bair
DI away = fair or grounded follow up

There's really no guaranteed safe way to DI. It's all a RPS game. Just learn what your opponent likes to follow up with often, as well as what follow up has the least likely chance of KOing you at later percents.

And yeah, neutral B really hurts Sonic. Don't charge it though. You'll eat an aerial downB.
Also, don't be predictable with the neutral B spam. The initial hop of our sideB goes right through it.

If sonic is just spamming stupid spindash crap just punish it oos. That's what i do and it works for me. Also you have no reason to approach sonic whatsoever. If you have the lead, abuse that.

You can't punish oos if the Sonic doesn't jump after the Spin Dash Roll has landed. Above that, you can't punish oos if the Sonic decides to UpB immediately after the roll connects with your shield.

Granted, they both put Sonic in a disadvantaged position, but it doesn't put him in position to be immediately punished by Zero Suit.

And then he does spindash > grab.
Yup.

If you perfect shield the last hit, you can possibly jab us. Above that, you can pivot grab. The only option we'd have at that point is to jump or UpB, neither of which give us time to punish you with anything aside from possibly a dash attack.

the spindash grab has weird properties. He can't do it from across the stage and it's also cancelled I'm not really sure. Point is you can see it coming, and if you notice that he's spamming it, spotdodge or roll behind him or jab, or ftilt, or da, or neutral b, I honestly think the sonic is mu is not all that difficult, I go fairly even with espy and he's one of the best sonics. I think zss wins 55:45 or maybe even 6:4

If the Sonic is spin dashing so far away that they are letting you roll or spot dodge, and it's not YI:B or Pictochat, then they're doing it wrong. If it's not those two stages, just hold down the A button.

Having said all of this, ZSS has a slight advantage on Sonic, but it's not enough to say that she is a counter of any kind. Not sure of what the Sonics would say, but it's pretty much a 55:45 to me.

 

[solecalibur]

Uhhh sonic , this MU is dumb if your losing lol

If you are winning / they are not playing "competitive"

-Sonic will most likely always approach, so standing in place and spacing yourself to give yourself enough reaction time to react is a good idea

-His shield pressure is a pain try not to shield rehearsed


If you are losing / They are playing "competitive"

-Try not to use your 2nd jump often when they go for an Up B unless your certain of constant , random Up B reverses throw them off and watch for the obv dair/air dodge , forward B there landing lag but predict where they are going to lag to watch sonic in that situation


--- FYI ---

- If we can grab him while he is Up bing we can gimp him like snake (dont pumbel xD)

- Dont use Neutral B in this MU its bad

- Dont randomly use Forward Bs, spacing is the key

- DI down -> Tech
Sonic's downthrow Free dtilt (dont try and dsmash)

- Our aireals **** sonic and our ground game actually isnt bad , and we out space the crap out of him , he is just fast and waiting for our lag on our move set

-Wiff grabs are bad =l

Summary
Play a bunch of sonics that know the MU and realize how the MU is played, instead of treating the MU as an instant win as there are so many sonic fan boys so there are some pretty skilled ones out there lol

 

[Dakpo]

Uhhh sonic , this MU is dumb if your losing lol
l

I lol'ed
but seriously .....

 

[Zero]

- Dont use Neutral B in this MU its bad

No way. nB is amazing in this match. Just don't use it when they're running forward and don't charge it. You want to use it when they're spinning, they're pretty much stuck @ the right range.

 

[Dakpo]

Through further experimenting, the only thing we can do out of Sonic's down throw to tech is jab...we tested it for quite some time (even buffering it)...so jab and run folks. I also talked to espy about this at MLG. Zss' tech animation is just to long.

 

[Zero]

ZSS' techs are all ****, bad luck for us

 

[solecalibur]

No dtilt? danggg and I never really found a use for neutral b in this MU imo...

 

[Zero]

nB >>>>>>>>>>> Sonic spindash

 

[solecalibur]

Probly spaced but when he is half way across the stage he can normally jump SD, after awhile playing friendlies vs one we just have better options / to much lag to easy to counter

 

[SASSY]

Played this matchup with Speed so much. It gave me a new appreciation for our jab. Once I started abusing it more, the matchup got way better. It's the best way to catch that mf

 

[Zero]

lol ffs I forgot about jab when playing our Sonic in a tourney match last week. Would have made it 2-0 instead of clutch, sfd,l;sf

 

[solecalibur]

I thought 3rd jab doesnt work on. Sonic?

 

[Nefarious B]

It doesn't. You guys overrate how easy it is to punish jab though. If they're shielding expecting to powershield jab three you can easily mixup, if they try and attack to stop our mixup our jab flow works. It's a 50-50 chance of being punished IF they know what they're doing and IF they have lightning fast reflexes to see the jab in the first place. That's in theory of course.

 

[Dakpo]

If we jab then once...(if they are smart) they can at least get a jab back. It sucks.. I don't know what I'm going to do next time i play espy

 

[Zero]

You mean if they're either mashing, or have inhuman reaction time (hint: 1 is the right answer)

 

[Nefarious B]

Exactly. It's like, technically falco's jab to grab or Snake's jab to ftilts are punishable. They're just fast enough that its hard to react to in time

 

[Dakpo]

You mean if they're either mashing, or have inhuman reaction time (hint: 1 is the right answer)

well if their holding their shield..its basically a free jab

 

[Zero]

If they're holding shield on jab1, you can get away without much trouble

If they're not holding shield on jab1 and mashing with no respect, you can finish the jab without much trouble.

 

[Dakpo]

lol never mind -__-

 

[Dakpo]

Double post!!!!!!! this thread has been dead for over a month! We have to keep this one alive, d@nm it.
How about we go back to a match up everyone needs to brush up on. Mk or Snake?

 

[Deathfox30]

Double post!!!!!!! this thread has been dead for over a month! We have to keep this one alive, d@nm it.

How about we go back to a match up everyone needs to brush up on. Mk or Snake?

Mk sounds good. I don't want this thread to die, er, get more dead either.

 

[Dakpo]

who runs this thread?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

^ Dunno,
But i'd like to get to know the MK matchup again too.
NR says he has n problem with it, and it'd be nice to have another discussion i can join in as well.
I'm going to a tourney this weekend where an MK is going to be a nuisance -.-

 

[solecalibur]

i think darkpo is gonna run charge of the mu thread

 

[Dakpo]

yea, ill switch it as soon as i get a little bit of time to gather the info

 

[SASSY]

I vote we discuss diddy again, in fine detail! He's been my main issue lately. I've taken games off Lie in my past two local tourneys, but can't finish the job. Diddy is movin on up IMO. I think NR's two bracket losses were Diddy this weekend. Hrmmmmm..