Official SWF Tier List v8

[Dekillsage]

It's true though
Everything is safe on Yoshi's shield.

(well, at least if he's not on a platform)

Getting yoshi to block is hard. It's the truth.

Fox absolutely ***** MK.

Haha Hahaha Ha.

I hope it's a joke. Now it is true that Fox has one of the best matchups vs MK. It's also true that it is still a losing matchup.

Most overrated vs Mk maybe.

 

[Osennecho]

It's more of an almost everyone with a good matchup against him has an overrated matchup. It's probably like 8th best, which keeps it in the winnable category.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Getting yoshi to block is hard. It's the truth.

What's a block?

 

[Dekillsage]

What's a block?

See!!! How are you getting them to block?!!!!

 

[Cassio]

Peeps arent familiar with Fox's of Yui/TKD or even Trevonte caliber. Fox seems extremely strong vs MK, most fox mains seem to agree as well.

 

[Nemy]

See!!! How are you getting them to block?!!!!

Step 1: Get them off the edge
Step 2: Get them out of the air
Step 3: F*** try again; Repeat Step 1

 

[Djent]

As results clearly show, right?

TBH there aren't really current results for the MU, what with all the good Foxes being inactive/quitting.

 

[Osennecho]

Peeps arent familiar with Fox's of Yui/TKD or even Trevonte caliber.

I thought most people at least knew of Yui? Still even Yui isn't doing as well as in the past in that matchup.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yui quit Fox.

Actually most Fox mains aren't very active. Probably has something to do with playing a character that gets pretty much destroyed by flavor of the month ICs.

 

[Dekillsage]

Or they realized their effort is better wasted on a good character. This game has no time for high tiers

 

[Dark.Pch]

I found videos on youtube of Yui beating top metaknights including a video of him 2 stocking Rain.
Is this a good mu for fox or did the mk's play the mu incorrectly?

You picked the wroooooooooooong place to ask such a thing.

Play close attention to the vids and watch how fox landed hits on rain. most were dair jump ins and fox just got his kills off of those along with the camping. Fox can get some good damage on MK due to his speed. But he is not gonna finish that job if MK wants to rush him. And thats how fox gets rewarded.

A well played Fox is one of the best characters in the MK matchup.
I'd probably only rate ICs and Diddy above him.

Fox is a really good character that just has a few depressingly bad matchups (ICs and Pikachu, and somewhat Sheik) that hold him back.

I don't see how he is. I went through this a while back. If that was the case, I not see these fox mains running to MK or IC. Or YU is just on a level outside of the other fox players.

Fox has to force something all the time to get a clean hit. His approach options are limited and suck. You can in his range where he can't shoot lasers and what is he gonna to to be a threat? Side B? he has no pressure game and his defense options are not good. If you stay grounded and aware of upsmash, he is not killing anyone early.


It is not hard to close the gap on fox. I'll eat a few lasers just to get in his face and give him hell. He has really one thing to start his damage and to finish people off. And thats mainly his dair. I'ts not hard to avoid and punish. And if I get caught in it, I usually SDI out of it so I can't get upsmash. Just ****ed up his whole day. If I decided not to move and get grabbed, I'll take it. He is not killing me off his grab.

Fox can't play a rush down game. Anyone who gets the lead on him and plays it cool is giving him problems. Shoot lasers all you want. You want to win, you have to finish me off. Fox range in his moves are booty. Space well and he is having a hard time landing a hit. Even with the typical dair Fox has to force someone to go into him and attack do something to get dairs to start up his typical stuff. He gets rewarded when one rushes him cause of his camping and get annoyed/bored. If one does not give that to him, the hell is he gonna do?

Im talking BS people say. I don't play this character so wtf do I know? Then answer these questions:

• What can fox do to be a threat when in range?
• How is he keeping someone on lock in shield?
• How is he getting in someone when he has too against a player who is walling him out. (his range sucks)
• How is he keeping people off stage?
• What defense options does he has when he is getting pressured?

And assuming the mentality of this community, I'm gonna get stupid weak answers that to justify that he does good for MK and is a good character over all.

 

[Nemy]

Where the Fox mains at?

DEFEND YO SELVES FOOLS

But seriously, Fox is fun and I considered picking him back up for a secondary. I want to see what players have to say about these problems. Especially about getting his moves out ranged. Its one of the main things about him (besides how crucial dair is) that make him less viable.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'm thinking about player ICs. It's probably fun playing the only character MK wants to run from.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Megafox is on Wifi. Go get him. With Nakat running to ICs he might be one of the only good Fox mains left.

 

[Dekillsage]

I'm thinking about player ICs. It's probably fun playing the only character MK wants to run from.

No its not. Supermodel pls

 

[Nemy]

• What defense options does he has when he is getting pressured?

Sometimes a good option for dealing with sheild pressure could be a jump canceled usmash. Its risky though. You have to know when it is and when it isnt safe.

 

[DeLux]

I already forwarded it to Zeton, so we'll see what happens.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Showing Trump as well.

 

[Zinoto]

Dammit BlueXenon now Dark Pch. can post another lengthy block of text that no one is gonna read, thanks alot

But on a serious note, Fox can be hit or miss vs. Metaknight, but more times than not Fox is gonna get stomped by Metakinght. He can abuse Fox's poor recovery game really well and if he plays really safe, there isn't much fox can do past 100%.

 

[pidgezero_one]

fox is fun to watch

 

[xDD-Master]

Sodrek .

 

[Tesh]

so how does fox get mk off the ledge?

 

[Shaya]

Shine ledge cancel buffered dashes to waste ledge grabs. Count to 30.
Run away.

 

[Ghostbone]

so how does anyone get mk off the ledge?

Fixed this for you.

 

[Luigi player]

so how does fox get mk off the ledge?

Go near to force him to do something and get more ledgegrabs.

 

[Tesh]

Fox can't really force MK to consume ledge grabs the way other good characters can.

 

[Luigi player]

MK can jump around below the ledge, but he has to get off at least...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

so how does fox get mk off the ledge?

The fact that we have to ask this question...

 

[Rizen]

There's very little most characters can do to stop good plankers without taking a huge risk

 

[Tesh]

Fox going near the ledge isn't very frightening. Most good characters can at least threaten to safely damage him if he is just sitting there.

thus, forcing him to use ledgegrabs faster than he would have to against fox or falco

 

[Ghostbone]

DDoS for S tier

I don't see what advantage other characters really have over fox.

He can walk up within range of f-tilt or something and MK has to drop uair like normal.

 

[Tesh]

Arcing projectiles and disjointed spikes force MK to keep more options open and means he cant maximize airtime as much as he can against Fox.

 

[Dekillsage]

Fox going near the ledge isn't very frightening. Most good characters can at least threaten to safely damage him if he is just sitting there.

thus, forcing him to use ledgegrabs faster than he would have to against fox or falco

Who MK? He can stay on the ledge for minutes(around 2 sounds right) without going over the LGL (if he has at least 30-40)
He can afford to chill there for a bit

 

[Ghostbone]

I mean I suppose Fox has a harder time forcing MK to consume ledge grabs.
But that's only applicable if the game goes to like 6 minutes and MK's in the lead.
I don't see the matchup going that long when both characters die early and rack up damage quickly, and MK's generally forced to approach for a lot of it.

 

[Dekillsage]

He's not forced to approach. Also its not only applicable at the 6 minute mark.
Having 2+ minutes to work on the ledge means MK never has to take any risks when getting back on stage. It's the truth. Even at one point in a match if he spends an entire minute there he's still good on ledge grabs. It's kind of ridiculous for that character to have that option tbh (his lgl should be 15 imo)

 

[-LzR-]

Or rather than making all these stupid nerfs to him it would be so easy to just get rid of him.

 

[Luigi player]

He's not forced to approach.

??? Quit being in denial. Fox' lasers easily force MK to approach. He can't stay at the ledge the whole game, and when he isn't on the ledge he is forced to approach.

Edit: Unless he's scrooging, but almost no character can do anything about that.

 

[Ghostbone]

He's not forced to approach. Also its not only applicable at the 6 minute mark.
Having 2+ minutes to work on the ledge means MK never has to take any risks when getting back on stage. It's the truth. Even at one point in a match if he spends an entire minute there he's still good on ledge grabs. It's kind of ridiculous for that character to have that option tbh (his lgl should be 15 imo)

K so MK doesn't approach (by planking) from the 2-4 minute mark.

Now he has to approach because he's gone over the LGL and fox will win on a timeout.
I'm really not seeing your point.
Like waiting on the ledge for a minute isn't going to somehow make fox worse at punishing MK for getting on stage (not that fox's ledge traps are particularly potent).

 

[pidgezero_one]

HELLO CAN I PLEASE MAKE A POST ON FAMED INTERNET WEBSITE SMASHBOARDS.COM

 

[ぱみゅ]

Hey Smashboards is back, and this thread is still as bad as ever!