Official SWF Tier List v8

[Death Arcana]

sawnik

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

DDD and Lucario shouldn't be grouped with mid tiers. TL might fit with them.

yeah but who would you put above her?

Everyone except Fox

 

[Grim Tuesday]

DDD's stellar performance against mid tiers is negligible in high level play

which is what I thought the tier list was meant to be based on

-3 vs. mk
losing match-ups to Ice Climbers Pikachu, Olimar, Diddy and Falco - some of them being -2

That's pretty horrendous

 

[Rizen]

DDD's stellar performance against mid tiers is negligible in high level play

which is what I thought the tier list was meant to be based on

DDD shouldn't be allowed in Mid tier events.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Hardly anyone even runs mid tier events anymore lol

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Do people still play this game? Or is everyone in melee or project M instead these days?

 

[pidgezero_one]

I broke Ally's shield the first time I ever played him. Not even joking.




....Okay he broke his own shield but it's cause I'm ****ing scary dude

can confirm, am ally's shield

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Do people still play this game? Or is everyone in melee or project M instead these days?

Active tier list discussions?

Brawl threads in the tournament listings forum?

Nah, nobody plays this game anymore

 

[Seagull Joe]

DDD shouldn't be allowed in Mid tier events.

He's not.

 

[Shaya]

Peach is good because her close range buffered attack patterns are very safe on shield and are capable of dominating nearly any character actively trying to hit her, truly here, kill power isn't relevant, fair isn't even the move she uses when being played at top level until kill percent (or are "camping" yourself) and nair and bair are capable of killing fresh too. Her complete and utter downfall is when she's facing opponents who don't want to be near her for any reason at a percent/stock deficit, her ability to get past horizontal mobility + cautious defensive choices is extremely lacklustre (opponent works for avoiding her fair). She can't make come backs. She can't abuse weight (Snake/Wario/etc) nor out-camp opponents (Diddy, Falco, MK, Snake, Olimar, etc). She can abuse an extremely safe with high technical prowess win+combo/trade+comeoutontop play style.

 

[BlueXenon]

I think it would be a great idea to make a separate tier list specifically for mid tier events.

 

[Tesh]

In TX we just use Tier List V7 for mid tier.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Do people still play this game? Or is everyone in melee or project M instead these days?

Why would anyone play a 15 year-old trash game or a hack job put together by a bunch of college students masquerading as game designers?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

her close range buffered attack patterns are very safe on shield and are capable of dominating nearly any character actively trying to hit her

Peach's real problem is that it's not very difficult for most opponents to avoid that kind of situation in the first place. She is often falsely believed to have good damage output, which is only true at low percent and largely depends on how the opponent deals with her fair. And even if she does manage to create a fruitful opening she never gets to reap the rewards with her poor KO options.

 

[pidgezero_one]

MK banned should have its own tier list honestly

 

[ぱみゅ]

MK banned should have its own tier list honestly

Wolf and Fox would drop, they depend on their MK matchup to be considered decent.

 

[Rizen]

Peach has a versatile attack game with good use of turnips. IMO that gives her enough of an edge to somewhat make up for shortcomings.

Wolf and Fox would drop, they depend on their MK matchup to be considered decent.

Wolf is good vs other high tiers like Oli, Falco, Marth, ICs and others. With a small disadvantage but very winnable MUs. Some CGs can seriously hurt him but he's viable.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wolf and Fox would drop, they depend on their MK matchup to be considered decent.

Banning MK would only cause Wolf to drop if DDD, Wario and Sheik become more popular. Not very likely imo, as none of them is solo-viable even with MK banned.
Banning MK could actually cause Wolf to rise if Diddy Kong, Olimar and Marth become a lot more popular. Somewhat more likely.

But I think neither would happen. If MK is banned ICs, Falco and Snake are the next best characters to use and they are neither better nor worse matchups for Wolf than MK. So if MK were banned I'd estimate Wolf to stay the same; Fox would probably drop because ICs is that much worse for him than MK.

 

[ぱみゅ]

If Mk gets banned neither ICs or Falco would be too powerful because the stagelist would be likely to increase, and that's something those two don't like.
DDD's usage would definitely increase if MK gets banned for several reasons, such as his ability to abuse stages being pretty powerful.

btw, I don't know about Wolf really, none of his matchups seems particularly good, specially considering a wide stagelist.

.... Also, more stages cripples Fox to an extent.

 

[BlueXenon]

With mk banned and a bigger stage list, every character can be countered to the point where you will need a second character to offset the advantage. Xyro explained this to me very well.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

because the stagelist would be likely to increase

No, it wouldn't.

And Fox / Wolf don't really care about stages. Falco is the only space animal you can hard CP with a stage.

Edit: I also don't see where the idea is coming from that more stages are good for DDD. Other than Delphino they seem to be pretty lame for him, especially Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise.

 

[Seagull Joe]

If Mk gets banned neither ICs or Falco would be too powerful because the stagelist would be likely to increase, and that's something those two don't like.
DDD's usage would definitely increase if MK gets banned for several reasons, such as his ability to abuse stages being pretty powerful.

btw, I don't know about Wolf really, none of his matchups seems particularly good, specially considering a wide stagelist.

.... Also, more stages cripples Fox to an extent.

Even with , , , , , and . He loses to , , , and -1. and are -2. is -3. beats or is even with every other character.

has 1 bad stage (Frigate) and the rest of the stages are based on player's choice. He's good on every neutral, CS, PS1, Halberd, Delfino, RC, and Brinstar.

Banning MK would only cause Wolf to drop if DDD, Wario and Sheik become more popular. Not very likely imo, as none of them is solo-viable even with MK banned.
Banning MK could actually cause Wolf to rise if Diddy Kong, Olimar and Marth become a lot more popular. Somewhat more likely.

But I think neither would happen. If MK is banned ICs, Falco and Snake are the next best characters to use and they are neither better nor worse matchups for Wolf than MK. So if MK were banned I'd estimate Wolf to stay the same; Fox would probably drop because ICs is that much worse for him than MK.

I would say that is scarier then . I also do not think is that difficult considering every except Reflex messes up the cg. Even abadango messed it up against me at Apex 2013.

Edit: Gheb has been so correct with his posts.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wouldn't argue vs to be even at this point tbh. You're not gonna win that argument.

I forgot about Pikachu because Pikachu's bad.

 

[BSP]

Which characters are top 3 vs MK in the current meta game? I'm curious since most people don't agree with pika:MK being even.

I'd say ICs, Falco, not sure on 3.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Fox, Falco and ICs imo.

 

[Rizen]

Fox, Falco and ICs imo.

Would you say Fox does better than Wolf vs MK?

I'd say Pika, Falco and ICs (not including MK dittos). I don't really know though.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Fox absolutely ***** MK.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Pika isnt top 3 against MK. MAYBE top 5, but hes not top 3.

 

[Player-1]

Lmao fox still sucks

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

The only way to make Fox good on a Brawl disc is to load Project M

 

[1PokeMastr]

But then Sonic.

 

[pidgezero_one]

no idiot you need to load brawl minus because hes the only one that can wavedash

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

no idiot you need to load brawl minus because hes the only one that can wavedash

Oh **** you're right my bad

 

[Tesh]

I think its Falco, Diddy, ICs. Falco has that superb keep away game with safe damage and those 0-70 combos.

Diddy and ICs have that camp game and infinite locks.

 

[Deathconsciousness]

Depends what you consider "suck", how much higher do you think she should be on the tier list?

>caring about tier lists

what's it like not knowing how to think for yourself

 

[Grim Tuesday]

>caring about tier lists

what's it like not knowing how to think for yourself

I don't agree with the official tier list word-for-word, especially on Jigglypuff's placing. I believe she should be considerably higher.
However, she still sucks. I just wanted some sort of indication on where you think she should be in relation to other characters - I didn't realize that was so unreasonable and sheep-like.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

>caring about tier lists

what's it like not knowing how to think for yourself

>not caring about tier lists

what's it like not knowing how competitive play works?

 

[Seagull Joe]

Wouldn't argue vs to be even at this point tbh. You're not gonna win that argument.

I forgot about Pikachu because Pikachu's bad.

Results shouldn't be swayed based on one individual, otherwise vs would appear -2 if we only looked at me. I've never had an issue with and I doubt any good other then Salem would think they win the matchup.

 

[Shaya]

Peach's nair, bair, uair and dair are all very good aerials. You're behind in her meta gheb.

 

[pidgezero_one]

>caring about tier lists

what's it like not knowing how to think for yourself

good point guy, i shouldn't be DQed for using falco in mid tiers at whobo