Official SWF Tier List v8

[Luigi player]

yes, that is what I said

There is a high chance that there will never be a good MK then.
I know what you mean. I know the feeling of helplessness when MK just shuts down all your options and you feel like it doesn't matter what you do you'll just get hit/gimped.

SideB? Well he could just wait it out and punish. Why did he run into the kick again? Why didn't he do something that would've been a better punish?
UpB? Why didn't he just wait for me to charge and then grab the ledge? Why didn't he go down and wait there with his jumps and gimped Diddy? / or if Diddy is far away he could just react to it and dair/shuttle loop Diddy...

Why? Why are MKs so bad? It's because it's not that easy to pull off. Sure, it can happen sometimes... and yes, sometimes more often, but it isn't as easy as some people seem to think.

There are still really good people getting 2 or 3 stocked by other people that they've beaten before. Sometimes the rock/paper/scissors game isn't in your favor for quite a bit, but it will never be like this all the time.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Most of the time we're left in a scenario where there is two paths:
1. Die
2. Get hit by MK, resets the situation

We just have to keep going to the second one until the MK messes up.

I agree with number one but that can be said about any character

2. If you flip kick MK, he will receive more damage than you do so I would take that trade at low percents any day

 

[Player-1]

No, I usually don't feel helpless because all the mks are bad at gimping diddy so I know I'm going to get back anyway. Not to sound egotistical (even though I totally am) I'm probably the best Diddy at recovering (against MK at least) because I know diddy's options and their options so well and I definitely feel like every time I get back on stage it's just because they don't know literally every option Diddy has,even the gimmicky ones. And again, at the risk of sounding egotistical, I probably no more about Diddy and his tricks than anyone else, and I definitely incorporate more Diddy knowledge-type stuff into my gameplay more than anyone else. If an MK player knew all of that stuff and the technical proficiency of the current top MK players then they'd probably be gimping diddys just about every time. You don't have to be like TAS to react to Diddy's stuff, you just have to have enough knowledge to identify what Diddy is going for and have good enough reactions to react to it.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Not to sound egotistical (even though I totally am)

Best quote of the thread imo

 

[pidgezero_one]

rofl at player-1's avatar

i took that photo

 

[FourStar]

No, it's because you mentioned Dazwa lmao

dazwa is good. idk about you but he's pretty unknown so that's why people underestimated

 

[infiniteV115]

Dazwa isn't unknown, everybody knows about him lol. He was good back in the day (used to be one of the best ZSS mains) but at this point he's not only not that good, but I'm pretty sure he plays other chars alongside ZSS (I personally saw him lose to Asa in pools at Apex 2013, after losing with ZSS he switched to Wario and lost again). He actually didn't even make it out of pools at Apex, though I'm not going to give much weight to that cause after getting out of pools at Apex I went 0-2 in bracket lol

I mean I'm not trying to knock the dude, I'm sure if he continued to put effort into the game and played seriously he'd still be a great player, but I'm fairly certain he doesn't attend tournies very often and when he does, he doesn't do very well. Feel free to prove me wrong by pointing out his good results in 2012/2013 but as far as I know, he has none/very little.

If you wanted to mention today's good ZSS players that aren't Salem, you should have mentioned Choco/Kamemushi/Quiksilver/Tay/Okals/Serudos/Nick Riddle/Dakpo/DRN/myself (in no particular order...okay that's a lie, that's in the order japan --> EU --> NA) all before you mentioned Dazwa lol.

Edit: He may have actually went fully ZSS against Asa in pools. I know he lost to Asa in pools, I was getting ready to coach Asa but after game 1 I decided it wasn't even necessary lol. He definitely used Wario against SOMEBODY in pools, not sure if it was Asa.

TL;DR you still don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

dazwa is good. idk about you but he's pretty unknown so that's why people underestimated

Dazwa is...

...alright

I wouldn't put him as a top 5 ZSS, hell, I don't even know if I would put him as a top 10 ZSS (maybe I would because I don't know if I could even come up with 10 Zero Suits lmao)

Let's see
Salem, Nickriddle, QuiKsilver, That other Europe ZSS whose name I escapes me (Tay or something like that), Kamemushi, Choco, V115, DRN, Dakpo, Bio (I think Dakpo and Bio may have quit)

That's 10

Also Mr. R has a pretty good ZSS as well

 

[infiniteV115]

Oh right DRN, I knew I was forgetting somebody.

Bio quit after WHOBO 4. Dakpo didn't but he took a little hiatus cause I think he broke his wrist or something.
And yeah Mr.R's ZSS is really good. Definitely better than Dazwa's lol

 

[FourStar]

yeah well i didn't know that many ZSS soooo yeah.... lol

edit: all i was trying to prove was that Salem is not the metagame for ZSS

 

[infiniteV115]

That's fine, but if you don't know anything about ZSS players then you shouldn't have tried to list examples

 

[FourStar]

That's fine, but if you don't know anything about ZSS players then you shouldn't have tried to list examples

meh. i would of used Mr. R but that's not his main so yeah. and i know what your saying but i know ZSS pretty well. she's one of my secondaries. just don't know too many players

 

[infiniteV115]

That's why I said "ZSS players"

And for what it's worth, just because you secondary a character doesn't mean you know her well. A lot of players don't even know their mains very well.

 

[FourStar]

That's why I said "ZSS players"

And for what it's worth, just because you secondary a character doesn't mean you know her well. A lot of players don't even know their mains very well.

i see your point but literally i have been analyzing other ZSS player (well just salem and nick riddle lol) and have been learning a lot. of course i can always be better but literally no one i play beats me with her. oh and btw you have a pretty damn good ZSS. imma study your strategies now lol

 

[pidgezero_one]

i'm literally a diglett with an oddish face

 

[FourStar]

i'm literally a diglett with an oddish face

hey weren't you jigglypuff dude before? you had like this long name with like jigglypuffdude and like 420 at the end?

 

[infiniteV115]

That's good to hear, and I'm flattered (thank you btw) but (and this isn't to be insulting) keep in mind that just because nobody who plays against you beats your ZSS, that doesn't make your ZSS good unless you're playing some established players.

 

[pidgezero_one]

hey weren't you jigglypuff dude before? you had like this long name with like jigglypuffdude and like 420 at the end?

jigglypuff dude? I don't know who that guy is, but he sounds like a baller

 

[FourStar]

That's good to hear, and I'm flattered (thank you btw) but (and this isn't to be insulting) keep in mind that just because nobody who plays against you beats your ZSS, that doesn't make your ZSS good unless you're playing some established players.

i know and i still gotta get better. the only top elite player in nor cal is prolly mike haze. i still have yet to play him. and even then i would use pikachu against him. one of these days....

 

[infiniteV115]

I thought MH was from SoCal. Did he move?

 

[FourStar]

I thought MH was from SoCal. Did he move?

i'm not sure the last norcal power rankings had him at first so i assume he is norcal so yeah. but literally brawl in norcal is dead. everyone plays melee here in norcal which is good cuz i like melee a lot more lol.

 

[FredFuchs]

i'm not sure the last norcal power rankings had him at first so i assume he is norcal so yeah. but literally brawl in norcal is dead. everyone plays melee here in norcal which is good cuz i like melee a lot more lol.

the pr thread says that zex is 1st in norcal and mikehaze is 3rd in socal

 

[Delta-cod]

The Haunter after that post made it so perfect. Looooooooooooooool

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It is though lol.

Learn to camp a platform, and up-b out of shield whenever they try and hit you with anything, then see if you still have trouble in the MU.

 

[infiniteV115]

What if the ICs decide to platform cancel --> grab or platform cancel --> shield
Or jump and airdodge if it's not on SV/Lylat

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Learn to camp a platform, and up-b out of shield whenever they try and hit you with anything, then see if you still have trouble in the MU.

He still gets Wrecked by Diddy and Olimar and he doesn't do too well against characters who can camp hard.

 

[Dekillsage]

Learn to camp a platform, and up-b out of shield whenever they try and hit you with anything, then see if you still have trouble in the MU.

Show me proof of this working vs anyone competent.

What if the ICs decide to platform cancel --> grab or platform cancel --> shield
Or jump and airdodge if it's not on SV/Lylat

Or just uair/wait for his landing after he does up-b. Or do nothing. It is Ice Climbers after all.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

What if the ICs decide to platform cancel --> grab or platform cancel --> shield
Or jump and airdodge if it's not on SV/Lylat

Air dodge is countered by the up-b as well.

Show me proof of this working vs anyone competent.

Show me a competent Game & Watch playing against a competent ICs full stop.

Or just uair/wait for his landing after he does up-b. Or do nothing. It is Ice Climbers after all.

No, the windbox of the up-b throws the climbers into the air with you regardless of how well they space the uair - if they go anywhere near you with an attack, they're ****ed.

 

[FourStar]

the pr thread says that zex is 1st in norcal and mikehaze is 3rd in socal

can you link me? i can't find it

 

[FredFuchs]

can you link me? i can't find it

http://smashboards.com/threads/power-rankings-directory-updated-6-9-2013.278504/

 

[FourStar]

http://smashboards.com/threads/power-rankings-directory-updated-6-9-2013.278504/

thanks broski. btw do they have brawl in hawaii?

 

[FredFuchs]

thanks broski. btw do they have brawl in hawaii?

there is a scene but it's pretty small

 

[FourStar]

there is a scene but it's pretty small

help build it up! it would be cool to see like hawaiian tournaments and maybe a national tourney there you know?

 

[FredFuchs]

help build it up! it would be cool to see like hawaiian tournaments and maybe a national tourney there you know?

there are videos on youtube. this guy's channel has vids: http://www.youtube.com/darkmusician

 

[Luco]

hey weren't you jigglypuff dude before? you had like this long name with like jigglypuffdude and like 420 at the end?

Pidge changes her name a lot these days.

Life sucks.

 

[Dakpo]

I think Dakpo and Bio may have quit

I didnt quit :D I actually got second at the dallas tournament last weekend. (only losing to our worst match-up/ Olimar) denti2good

 

[infiniteV115]

Asa is from Hawaii lol, though I think he's been in Texas for like the last 6 months, maybe longer

 

[da K.I.D.]

im pretty sure hawaii DID have a national tournament. Its just that 95% of us poor azzz mainland smashers (99% of the east coast, vex is the only one I know who went) couldnt afford to get to it.

 

[FredFuchs]

im pretty sure hawaii DID have a national tournament. Its just that 95% of us poor azzz mainland smashers (99% of the east coast, vex is the only one I know who went) couldnt afford to get to it.

dehf went to one of our tourneys this year. i think darkm pays for their ticket and provides housing for one professional a year.

 

[FourStar]

one of these days we can all afford to go to hawaii tourney. one of these days....