Official SWF Tier List v8

[FourStar]

lemme guess..... ESAM

 

[NickRiddle]

No, Anther, duh.

 

[infiniteV115]

I haven't seen ESAM really get shut down by any MKs except for Anti at Pound V and SKTAR. And that was all FD/SV

But he did better at Apex 2013 so it doesn't even really matter lol.
He also didn't do too well against Nairo at SKTAR (only won 1 game, with Pika on PS1) where surpisingly he did worse on BF than on any other stage...but even then it wasn't too bad. First one was 1 stock mid %, 2nd was 2 stock high %.

 

[FourStar]

i think ESAM's pika was best at Apex 2012. like unbelievable

 

[Funkmasterblitz]

Honestly I believe the tier list should have been like this.

SS: MK
S: Icies, Diddy, Olimar, Falco.
A: Snake, ZSS, Marth.
B: Pika, Wario, D3, Lucario.
C: TL, Wolf, Fox, GW, Pit, ROB, Peach.
D: Kirby, DK, Sonic, Ike, Sheilda, Sheik, Ness.
E: Yoshi, Lucas, PT, Luigi.
F: Mario, Samus, Bowser, Link, Falcon, Jiggs, Zelda.
G: Ganondorf.

 

[da K.I.D.]

uh... that doesn't make any sense fourstar. people who play consistently dont just get worse.

everyone else gets better.

 

[FourStar]

uh... that doesn't make any sense fourstar. people who play consistently dont just get worse.

everyone else gets better.

what do you mean? i never said anything about being better or worse. i have no clue what you are talking about sorry.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

so does anyone know who has the closest to even MU with MK?

Metaknight

 

[da K.I.D.]

what do you mean? i never said anything about being better or worse. i have no clue what you are talking about sorry.

im talking about this.

i think ESAM's pika was best at Apex 2012. like unbelievable

this statement implies that esam has gotten worse in the last year and a half, which is next to impossible for someone who play consistently like he does. Esams pikachu is at least just as good now as it was then. everyone else just got better too.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

this statement implies that esam has gotten worse in the last year and a half, which is next to impossible for someone who play consistently like he does. Esams pikachu is at least just as good now as it was then. everyone else just got better too.

This implies that people are getting better. Esam is just sandbagging the hell out of all of you to make you feel better about yourself. The guy is too nice to this community.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Esam on a rampage would use Samus.
Just saying.

 

[Aidebit]

This implies that people are getting better. Esam is just sandbagging the hell out of all of you to make you feel better about yourself. The guy is too nice to this community.

Dude, ESAM isn't Isai, ESAM plays to win. Don't overestimate him.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I play marvel, street fighter, tekken, soul callibur, blazblue, guilty gear, virtua fighter, dead or alive, and probably like 5 more I cant quite remember, and I MIGHT agree with you, if I even knew what youre main argument/point was.

I can't remember. :<

 

[Luco]

I can't remember. :<

Aww.

I guess i'm a scrub. I always just thought Priority was when two moves were used at the exact same time, one with 'higher' priority would just cancel out the other.

Also, what about aerial b projectiles? I know when my brother and I verse each other in Lucas dittos, occasionally we've been in a situation where one of us has used Usmash and the other has PKF-ed the usmash hitbox and, as it seems, just canceled it.

Or maybe the hitbox just becomes invisible? I'm genuinely not sure.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I guess i'm a scrub. I always just thought Priority was when two moves were used at the exact same time, one with 'higher' priority would just cancel out the other.

yea. see thats the problem, thats not right at all. and im pretty sure the reason nickriddle and others are so annoying about calling out people who use the term improperly is to keep false understandings like this from being perpetuated.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

idk what other people's ideas on priority are

all I know is

that mine is the right one

 

[1PokeMastr]

PK fire from Ness/ Lucas has a hurtbox, or something similar to one.
Example is Mk Up B'ing through Ness' PK Fire.

Edit: I meant that the Up B goes through hitlag and PK Fire keeps going.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

idk what other people's ideas on priority are

all I know is

that mine is the right one

Most likely there is something about it you still do not know about correctly, but someone else does. Tends to happen a lot.

 

[Luco]

yea. see thats the problem, thats not right at all. and im pretty sure the reason nickriddle and others are so annoying about calling out people who use the term improperly is to keep false understandings like this from being perpetuated.

Yeah, that's fair enough.

In that case, i'm all ears in this discussion - i'd like to learn this. So.... keep discussing?

 

[FourStar]

im talking about this.



this statement implies that esam has gotten worse in the last year and a half, which is next to impossible for someone who play consistently like he does. Esams pikachu is at least just as good now as it was then. everyone else just got better too.

noooooo........ you misunderstood. i'm saying like that is where i liked his pikachu play style the most. really that was an opinion. of course he has gotten better. so sorry if you took it as ESAM has gotten worse but that is the complete opposite.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yeah, that's fair enough.

In that case, i'm all ears in this discussion - i'd like to learn this. So.... keep discussing?

no, because others have different ideas on what priority is and discussing it with these people makes my mind implode

:<

I love you all, we're all God's children...

 

[Luco]

no, because others have different ideas on what priority is and discussing it with these people makes my mind implode

:<

I love you all, we're all God's children...

You're all part of the Brawl back room, why aren't you all informed and thus why do you keep arguing? Gosh, at this rate I could be part of the BR and i'm a scrub!!

J/ks I think I have a while to go before I try going for the BBR heh. Embarrass

 

[KuroganeHammer]

You're all part of the Brawl back room, why aren't you all informed and thus why do you keep arguing?

Because we have different ideas and opinions, just because we're part of the BBR, that doesn't mean we have to agree on everything. Besides, it'd be no fun if we all agreed on everything anyway.

There's nothing wrong with arguing as long as it's constructive. =P

 

[ShadowLink84]

They argue because they are bored.
I know I do.

 

[FourStar]

these threads were made to argue lol

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Has Sonic done anything in the past year to justify him being in mid tier?

 

[Shaya]

Is there any real justification for him being in low tier?

 

[Luco]

Is there any real justification for him being in low tier?

He's one of the few characters that doesn't scare me at all? :3

As much as I feel like my input here isn't really going to be considered, I feel like Sonic needs to prove to me he can stay in mid tier rather than proving to me he's low tier, which is why I think your logic is slightly flawed: I think a character needs to be able to prove they are at the top rather than prove they are bad (because of metagame changes and such) and yes I believe those are two different things. If Sonic isn't doing anything at all, I begin to wonder why he is where he is.

However IMO if he's done anything in like the past year or two then yes I wouldn't really have an issue with him being where he is.

And to clarify, I believe the same things of characters like Wario, Peach, sheik and so on.

 

[philbobjoe]

I disagree. He's already in mid tier, so to me it seems the burden of proof is to show he's a low tier character.

 

[Luco]

I disagree. He's already in mid tier, so to me it seems the burden of proof is to show he's a low tier character.

I would agree, except he was once in low tier. Obviously yes he's in mid tier for a reason but the metagame changes and I think you can't rely on a character to show they're not as good as you thought they were based on an ever-changing meta-game. Rather I think the character has to stay up to date with the meta. So for instance, Wario doing 'eh' in tournaments suggests to me that he may not be safe where he is, however chars like ZSS or Falco have been placing consistenly in tournaments and have been doing well.

So like, if Peach for instance just completely dropped off the radar and couldn't show she was where she was but rather just kinda did 'eh', would you keep her where she is?

It's hard because, although I believe not doing well and doing bad can be two different things, they can overlap. Like, they're different in the respect that if Falco is doing well... well he's expected to do well so that's ok. If he suddenly does amazing, then he's showing that he's at the top of his game and could be raised whereas if he suddenly started not placing anywhere near as well that would be saying to me he's not as good.

My belief is that if he's not showing the 'doing well' part (the middle, in this case), then he should move. Whether he's doing fantastic or stupidly would tell me whether he'd be going up or down.

If I see Sonic placing higher than most of the characters he's above, i'd be fine to keep him where he is, you know?

Gahhh, it feels so hard to explain. Sorry. ><

 

[Z'zgashi]

lol, Sonic definitely isnt low tier. MAYBE low mid if you move Sheik/Yoshi/Ness down there too, but no way is he low tier. Imo hes pretty perfectly placed atm; Id probably only move him a single spot at best.

 

[Psychoace]

I remember when sonic was low tier lol.

 

[Luco]

lol, Sonic definitely isnt low tier. MAYBE low mid if you move Sheik/Yoshi/Ness down there too, but no way is he low tier. Imo hes pretty perfectly placed atm; Id probably only move him a single spot at best.

You think so?

Hmm...

I dunno, I should see more of him. Last time I remember seeing him was a match between Espy/Trela or Kprime or someone which i wasn't paying as much attention to cause I was focusing on the music.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

lol, Sonic definitely isnt low tier. MAYBE low mid if you move Sheik/Yoshi/Ness down there too, but no way is he low tier. Imo hes pretty perfectly placed atm; Id probably only move him a single spot at best.

Because this is a solid argument and contributes to the discussion. All those solid points for why he deserves a spot in mid-tier.

Is there any real justification for him being in low tier?

Is there any justification for him being in mid-tier? This isn't an argument.

 

[Flayl]

Answer philbobjoe.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Because this is a solid argument and contributes to the discussion. All those solid points for why he deserves a spot in mid-tier.

I wasnt making an argument, I was stating my opinion.

 

[FourStar]

i'm surprised espy isn't defending sonic right now

 

[Luco]

I don't think Espy cares about us noobs anymore.

But just in case, Espy, you should know that i'm not trying to take away from Sonic and would actually be interested to hear your opinion.

 

[da K.I.D.]

The burden of proof is always on the part of the people who are trying to change the current status quo. When sonic was listed as the 5th worst character in the game. It was up to the Sonic players to proof that he needed to be moved and that he wasn't bottom tier. Now that he is mid tier, it is up to the haters to prove that he should be moved back down. Thats how it works, and thats how its always worked. You dont just get to say 'ok were going to move this character because theres no valid reason to stay where he is, even though theres also no valid reason for him to move either.'

 

[Seagull Joe]

is not worse then , , or . The hell is wrong with you people?