Psychoace
Smash Champion
Every Ike i've seen vs falco uses dash attack a lot against him. Even when falco is trying to recover.
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Being afraid isn't something relevant to a Falco/Ike match-up nor what I wanted to imply at all. Its a player thing someone has to get around if they are nervous up close anyway. So again, the idea of being afraid to fight up close is NOT what I am trying to convey at all.You play falco and you are afraid when people are next to you? Stop it with that. You have one of the best jabs in the game along with the ability to choose between doing only the first or two/3 parts of jab. Your grab isn't slow either and your spotdodge is ridiculous. Falco is best up close, stop playing him like a zoner.
Falco has the walk speed to make up for this. Even if it takes a while to set up(doesn't even take that long) he can shoot and walk towards with his lazer that hit your shield.
With ike? It's not slow?. You'd think the second you see ike input dash falco would stop and assume he's going to 1)dash attack 2)dash grab 3)dash block jab/grab mix up and react accordingly.
Yo whats with you guys thinking falco can't fight people up close when his tools are better than snakes? I don't understand lol
Up close involves too many random variables some times. With this game, jab cancel mix-ups are not guaranteed and you have player by player things you have to deal with. As I said before and by 1pokemastr, falco's jab1 and jab2 (depending upon the character) leads to typically a 0 to -4 disadvantage. Other characters have it worse or as good. Anyway, because of that disadvantage at times your attempt at a follow up like grab or another jab can be completely thwarted by say a buffered move from the opponent or buffered spot dodge or powershield. And things like jab -> grab is not something you can choose to react on once you try using jab. You just have to throw it out there and hope it works or not. The only safe things in this game typically are jab -> shield (to avoid attacks or go straight into one of the dodges). Or something like MK's spaced Dtilt or SH Fair.I have a hypothesis: most players are not good at close range. Playing well at close range is difficult and takes a clear head and focus of thought. I think it's becoming less and less possible to play Falco by spamming lasers because players are getting good at getting around it, and that most Falco players are falling off because their laser cheese isn't working as well anymore.
The reason good Falco players like Larry have stayed relevant is frankly because they are good boxers. When their zoning stops working, they're still scary.
What do you mean by zoning anyway. Its seems too subjective to be using right now. To me, I view your usage of zoning as someone who is trying to use higher disjointed attacks to beat out an opponents methods of getting closer or just plan avoid attacks by spacing yourself at the right distance.People who want to play a "zoner" who kills early should be playing Olimar and not Falco.
Falco's not a zoner, he just has a projectile.
So it beats Sh double lazer, but not single? I see it winning, but the question is why is falco still doing it when Ike can dash attack? and also whether or not Ike can do it if he had blocked or got hit by a lazer already. Seems like a neutral game thing where falco is just starting to do sh lazers and ike already stopped him before he got started.
Technically couldn't we consider that a type of priority? If Olimar's upsmash beats Pikachu's down air, then Olimar's up smash has priority over Pikachu's down air.Sounds more like electric property than priority.
plsPriority doesnt really exist in brawl
Zero Suit Samus is renowned for having a stupidly disjointed up aerial, with proper spacing (and being underneath the opponent of course), it's possible to beat out every other aerial in the game by hitting enemy hurtboxes with the disjointed part of her up air.
Peach wins the trade though.no, theyll trade, peachs won't beat it out, this is common knowledge
No, it's because you both chime in together to argue about trivial things as if you need to back each other up.Because everyone hates South Australians (online).
Aerials almost never clash, they only trade. (Exceptions being ZSS's nair and MK's glair for example) Also, A v G almost never clash either. (Except MK's dash-attack from what I've seen.)Technically couldn't we consider that a type of priority? If Olimar's upsmash beats Pikachu's down air, then Olimar's up smash has priority over Pikachu's down air.
pls
Priority absolutely, totally, 100% exists in Brawl.
1. The 9% Rule
A non-transcendent move when pitted against another non-transcendent move will clash, unless the damage difference between moves is over 9%. For example, a fully charged Samus Charge Shot will beat out Zero Suit Samus's Jab 1 because the difference between base damage is over 9%. However a fully charged Ganondorf forward smash will beat out a half charged Charge Shot and Ganondorf will continue with his forward smash as if the Charge Shot never happened.
2. Aerials vs. aerials
This is a weird one, aerials can clash if they aren't transcendent, but cannot be cancelled so it comes down to which hitboxes are overlapping the enemy's hurtboxes. Example, Zero Suit Samus is renowned for having a stupidly disjointed up aerial, with proper spacing (and being underneath the opponent of course), it's possible to beat out every other aerial in the game by hitting enemy hurtboxes with the disjointed part of her up air.
3. Aerial vs grounded
Basically the same as grounded vs grounded priority, aerials can cancel out grounded attacks, but aerials will continue, while the grounded attack will retract UNLESS the 9% rule is broken, in which the move with 9%+ damage will beat out the other move.
4. Transcendence
This is a state of whether a hitbox can clash or not. Non-disjointed transcendent hitboxes (especially multi-hit) are usually very bad since it's easy to hit the hurtboxes. On the flip side, disjointed transcendent hitboxes are excellent since they usually will beat out other hitboxes by going straight to the opponents hurtbox (example, MK's down smash is fast and disjointed and transcendent, his down smash will beat out, say, Fox's because Fox's legs are hurtboxes, while MK's sword is not). This is why Zelda is so bad and Meta Knight is so good.Example: Zelda uses neutral aerial, almost anyone can trade attacks with this because of how small the hitboxes are and because it's multi-hit. If Peach trades neutral aerials with Zelda, assuming Peach doesn't simply outright beat Zelda's attack, they will trade. Peach will take 3%, while Zelda will take 14%.
5. B Moves
These act like grounded moves. Special mention goes to Tornado which cannot be cancelled because it's technically an aerial. It can be beaten out though by the 9% rule or by hitting him with an aerial that doesn't hit his tornado hitboxes. I think.
6. Invincibility and intangibility
The absolute God of priority. These moves literally cannot ever be beaten out. Very few of these moves are in Brawl, however some moves have certain areas of a character that are rendered intangible or invincible during them. I'll list a few examples:
Examples of whole body intangibility:Wolf's Down BZelda's Neutral BMeta Knight's Grounded Up BBowser's Up BExamples of part body intangibility:Zelda's Down Smash on her leg and kneeMario's Up Smash on his headYoshi's Jab on his... legs?Yoshi's Dash Attack on his headIce Climbers have invincibility on their up B. I've heard that Bowser's up smash has invincibility as well, but I've never confirmed it.Invincibility is less favorable than intangibility but it's still godlike. Sometimes intangibility can be useless (See: Zelda's Neutral B, though I've dodged things like Ike's foward smash with it before) but other times it can be amazing, and it's what makes Wolf's Down special one of the most amazing moves in Brawl.There are probably other things that affect priority, I'm just probably not thinking of them atm.(I hope some of you enjoy this possibly informative post. :x)
Any aerial CAN trade with any aerial assuming hitboxes and hurtboxes overlap on the same frame. You're confusing "priority" with frame data and disjoint. Very different things.No, it's because you both chime in together to argue about trivial things as if you need to back each other up.
The point is that ZSS's up air is a high priority move, as opposed to, say, Zelda's down air or Falcon's down air.
But whatever, continue to argue that "any aerial can beat any other aerial", I don't mind, but I will grab my popcorn.
Is equivalent to saying that PSI magnet has priority over Falco's lasers, ZSS' lasers/dsmash, Pit's arrows, etc.If Olimar's upsmash beats Pikachu's down air, then Olimar's up smash has priority over Pikachu's down air.
Nope, most aerials won't clash with ground moves.A non-transcendent move when pitted against another non-transcendent move will clash,
A couple of points here:Nope, most aerials won't clash with ground moves.
-Some aerials can be cancelled out, eg ZSS' nair. I'm surprised you don't know this, you even used her as an example lol
-In reference to your 'aerial vs grounded' part, again, most aerials won't clash with ground moves. They just trade (ie both players get hit)
-B moves don't act like grounded moves, they act like ground/air moves depending on whether they're on the ground or in the air...I mean I thought that was pretty simple.
Don't believe me? Try out ZSS' grounded sideB vs nado, compare it to ZSS' aerial sideB vs nado.
-Invincibility and intangibility have nothing to do with hitbox interactions.
I have revised my old post for more accuracy.A descriptive measure of an attack's tendency to strike the opponent when that opponent is also attacking. In general, higher priority attacks always interrupt lower priority attacks. It's important to note that "priority" is usually simply a term of convenience - very few games actually have an internal mechanism that governs the resolution of attacks via priority. Instead, priority arises as a consequence of the characters' hit-box properties during a move. Typically, hit-box properties can lead to priority in two ways. First, during the move, the character's attacking hit-box can extends far beyond his target hit-box such that he can hit the opponent without being hit. Second, priority can arise when a move allows the character to attack another character while being invincible for a certain duration of the move (where such invincibility is usually the consequence of the complete absence of a target hit-box). An example of a high priority move is Ken's Shoryuken in the Street Fighter II series, a move which had extensive invincibility frames during its startup. In later renditions of Street Fighter II, the amount of invincibility frames was reduced, but even when not invincible, the attacking hit-box remained a great deal larger than the target hit-box for a relatively long duration of the move.
No such thing as a close to even MU vs MK.so does anyone know who has the closest to even MU with MK?
see i'm not crazy. pika has options aginst mk but only on certain stages. like on BF pika gets ***** by mk. but on frigate its a little closerIn say, a japanese stagelist, ICs and Falco probably have the best MU.
In say, the Apex 2012/2013 stagelist, I'd probably give it to Pikachu cause MK pretty much has an auto-win against ICs and Falco since both Delfino and Frigate are options and only one can be banned.
well that is ESAM we are talking about. from tournament experience i've seen so many pika's get taken down on BF. personally. BF is like one of my least favorites stages to play on even though i do pretty good there. idk i guess nor cal just doesn't have the quality pikas.....You're clearly crazy cause Pikachu doesn't get ***** on BF. iirc ESAM thinks that BF is one of Pikachu's best stages against MK