Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[FlareHabanero]

Isn't it worth having at least one set with decisive since decisive speed is really good?

That's the main reason to use Decisive Monado Arts at all. But again, you can't switch out Monado Arts, meaning that if you make the mistake of picking Speed at the wrong time you have to wait it out. Which again goes back to my point of it being counter productive towards Shulk's playstyle of switching between each Monado Arts to become versatile.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I don't frequent the Shulk boards (although I should, I'm trying to learn him) but I suppose if the sets break down such that you have a slot or two left over you could throw a 2113 set in at the end. (Or whatever Back/Air Slash variant is best, IDK.)

Because really, Speed Shulk is fast and Decisive Arts boost their effects a bit if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Piford]

That's the main reason to use Decisive Monado Arts at all. But again, you can't switch out Monado Arts, meaning that if you make the mistake of picking Speed at the wrong time you have to wait it out. Which again goes back to my point of it being counter productive towards Shulk's playstyle of switching between each Monado Arts to become versatile.

Even so, without DMA Shulk would need 6 more slots to fill. I think Advancing Air slash is the obvious next custom, and you could try mighty air slash too. Maybe Leaping backslash deserves a spot. I still think keeping one set would be a good idea.

 

[Raijinken]

Decisive doesn't enhance anything but duration, and removes swapping. Extreme/Hyper/Whatever is what you want for added effects. And Hyperspeed Shulk is terrifying indeed.

For the record, we're dismissing Decisive Monado Arts since it's counter productive to Shulk's general playstyle. Others are more ambiguous like the Back Slash variants, though Shulk's Power Vision, Hyper Monado Arts, and Mighty Air Slash might see usage due to the increased power.

Power Vision with hyper Smash mode kills around 30 off of a nair from Dr Mario. It will be forever my favorite Shulk setup.

 

[Splash Damage]

IMO, all three of Shulk's Monado art options deserve some exposure, with priority of each option from most to least being Normal(I'd say 5 sets), Hyper(3-4), Decisive(1-2). Advancing Air Slash could use two or three sets, with Mighty worth one or two. Normal Air Slash is overall the best option, due to its OoS properties and ability to negate the need for a horizontal recovery with the sheer height it gains w/Jump Mode. I haven't done much testing on the Backslash variants, but they all seem to have their uses. I'd say they each deserve 3 with either Normal or Charge getting the extra. For counters, I'm sure we can all agree that the third option is by far the best. The only downside of it should never come into play, as you shouldn't really use a counter more than ~4 times in a 2-stock match, making the quick staling moot.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Decisive doesn't enhance anything but duration, and removes swapping. Extreme/Hyper/Whatever is what you want for added effects. And Hyperspeed Shulk is terrifying indeed.

The description for Decisive Arts says "Activate stronger Arts that last longer." I also went into training mode and checked out damage % for various attacks with no Art vs. various Buster Arts. (Buster chosen merely for ease of comparing damage % as opposed to speed or jump height or whatever.)

Attack|No Art|Buster|Decisive Buster|Hyper Buster
Jab Combo|12%|17%|18%|20%
Ftilt (sword)|13%|18%|20%|21%
Ftilt (beam)|11%|16%|17%|19%
Fsmash (both hits)|18%|25%|28%|31%

Unless Buster is a special case, I conclude that Decisive Arts are in fact stronger than default Arts. I also noticed they take a bit longer to activate but I have no idea if that's a meaningful downside or not.

 

[Splash Damage]

The description for Decisive Arts says "Activate stronger Arts that last longer." I also went into training mode and checked out damage % for various attacks with no Art vs. various Buster Arts. (Buster chosen merely for ease of comparing damage % as opposed to speed or jump height or whatever.)

Attack|No Art|Buster|Decisive Buster|Hyper Buster
Jab Combo|12%|17%|18%|20%
Ftilt (sword)|13%|18%|20%|21%
Ftilt (beam)|11%|16%|17%|19%
Fsmash (both hits)|18%|25%|28%|31%

Unless Buster is a special case, I conclude that Decisive Arts are in fact stronger than default Arts. I also noticed they take a bit longer to activate but I have no idea if that's a meaningful downside or not.

To determine if Buster was a special case or not, I did some testing with the Speed arts to see the effectiveness. The test i performed was the speed at which he can run across the 3DS's Battlefield. I did the test for each art a few times to determine an average.

No Art|Speed|Decisive Speed|Hyper Speed
1.69|0.97|0.86|~0.82-0.84

Hyper seems to be only a slight power boost over Decisive overall. I will be conducting another test based around the Defense Monado momentarily.

 

[Piford]

Also, Decisive doesn't increase the drawbacks of each art like Hyper does from what I understand.

 

[Splash Damage]

Defense test:
The reference used was a Ganon U-Tilt.

No Art|Defense|Decisive Defense|Hyper Defense
28%|18%|16%|15%

Side note:The Hyper Defense appeared to lower launch distance much more than Decisive, despite the unimpressive percent decrease. The U-Tilt didn't even send Shulk in the air at 0% w/Hyper Defense, while Decisive Defense was sent about 1/3 of the way across Battlefield.

 

[Splash Damage]

Also, Decisive doesn't increase the drawbacks of each art like Hyper does from what I understand.

Yep, Buster and Decisive buster both increase the damage taken from a Ganon U-tilt to 31% over 28%.

 

[Piford]

Defense test:
The reference used was a Ganon U-Tilt.

No Art|Defense|Decisive Defense|Hyper Defense
28%|18%|16%|15%

Side note:The Hyper Defense appeared to lower launch distance much more than Decisive, despite the unimpressive percent decrease. The U-Tilt didn't even send Shulk in the air at 0% w/Hyper Defense, while Decisive Defense was sent about 1/3 of the way across Battlefield.

That's because Hyper likely increases the weight drastically, but not the damage reducer.

 

[Thinkaman]

The Ol' One-Two is aight. Who needs recovery anyway?

@ A2ZOMG did a good job of explaining to me why doc up-b 3 carries additional costs that may not be obvious vs. the default. I still like it, but it's tough to justify imo.

Screw Rush gets my disapproval, though. Nigh-worthless as a recovery (as predicted, the grapple beam does just as well unless you're too close to the stage, in which case any other screw attack is better), doesn't seem to kill as early as the others since I was using it at ground level. I would still run Apex Screw Attack in 90% of situations.

Screw Attack is frame-5, does 12% damage total (but as low as 6-8% in most ground-ground uses), does up to 45 total shield damage, and kills at 281% from ground level.

Screw Rush is frame-11, does 15% damage total (consistently), does up to 33 total shield damage, and kills at 167% from ground level.

Apex Screw Attack is frame-15, does 11% damage total (consistently), does no extra shield damage, and kills at 131% from ground level.



I was originally a fan of Apex Screw Attack, but it's just a poor attack in every way outside of its kill power. Which, to be fair, Samus does really appreciate.

Remember:

• A frame 5 OoS option is really good.
• A frame-11 OoS option is not that good.
• But a frame-11 OoS option that covers the aerial space in front of you is fantastic.

Screw Rush is very similar to Crescent Slash. Also, note that the grounded version gives you way more helpless state control, and lets you always drift back to the stage.

 

[A2ZOMG]

@ A2ZOMG did a good job of explaining to me why doc up-b 3 carries additional costs that may not be obvious vs. the default. I still like it, but it's tough to justify imo.



Screw Attack is frame-5, does 12% damage total (but as low as 6-8% in most ground-ground uses), does up to 45 total shield damage, and kills at 281% from ground level.

Screw Rush is frame-11, does 15% damage total (consistently), does up to 33 total shield damage, and kills at 167% from ground level.

Apex Screw Attack is frame-15, does 11% damage total (consistently), does no extra shield damage, and kills at 131% from ground level.



I was originally a fan of Apex Screw Attack, but it's just a poor attack in every way outside of its kill power. Which, to be fair, Samus does really appreciate.

Remember:

• A frame 5 OoS option is really good.
• A frame-11 OoS option is not that good.
• But a frame-11 OoS option that covers the aerial space in front of you is fantastic.

Screw Rush is very similar to Crescent Slash. Also, note that the grounded version gives you way more helpless state control, and lets you always drift back to the stage.

And a frame 3 oos option that KOs at 138% from center stage that deals about 14% fresh is INSANE.

The Ol' One-Two is aight. Who needs recovery anyway?

Ol One Two is a decent KO move, but Doc to be frank already has plenty of those, and one of the problems with Ol One Two is you can't reverse it the same way as default. With default, you can connect the initial hit and DURING HITLAG you can reverse it.

Also Ol One Two only works if your opponent is directly in front of you, while default Doc Up-B is quite possibly one of the most consistent and powerful punishes to crossovers in the game.

Strictly relying on Soaring Tornado for recovery isn't wise, given people can try to chase you during the ending lag and punish. Especially if you run Ol One Two, which makes your recovery far more predictable. At least the distance on regular Up-B not to mention the superior hitbox on it has to be respected when your opponent tries to edgeguard you.

 

[Splash Damage]

@ A2ZOMG did a good job of explaining to me why doc up-b 3 carries additional costs that may not be obvious vs. the default. I still like it, but it's tough to justify imo.

In my opinion, having a good OoS option that does 23% and kills at ~85% on most of the cast is much more important than being able to get a little bit farther up, especially when his Down-Bs all have the ability to assist his recovery by stalling/advancing, mixing up opponents attempting to edgeguard your assumed fall path. The lack of its ability to snap to the ledge can also be used to heavily punish hungry edgeguarders, as you can grab ledge and quickly drop down to a height that will enable you to hit them with just the second hitbox and safely land onstage. It is definitely a more situational option, but that humungous kill power paired with the OoS properties is nothing to be ignored.

 

[Thinkaman]

Everyone keeps saying that Ol' One-Two is worth the slight cost in recovery. This is totally true!

But that's more dubious, is that it's worth being 66% slower, losing the ability the reverse on-hit or on-block, and losing the broad range/control it can seek a ledge with.

That is what people should be concerned about; the recovery disadvantage is secondary.

Edit:
I want to be extra clear on this, so here's an experiment anyone interested in doc should do.

Take the default up-b, and go try to up-b OoS near the ledge. As long as you are anywhere within one roll's distance from the ledge (including at the very edge), you should be able to reach the ledge and safely avoid landing lag. Note that you can reverse the default up-b after the initial hitbox, so you can do this regardless of which way you are attacking.

Now try the same with up-b 3. Keeping in mind that you cannot reverse this one on-hit, see what range gives this move ledge safety.

Edit 2:
But wait, there's more!

The ability to reverse on-hit applies aerially off-stage too. Normally doc prefers edgeguarding with bair, but if you are facing the wrong way, you can use up-b to hit outward while still recovering inward.

Up-b 1 is a punishable move on whiff, but between the modest aerial control, the ability to reverse on-block, and the ability to fast fall, and the ability to fall through platforms let you mixup your position. Punishes beyond dash grabs or attacks will usually require some level of read.

Up-b 3's aerial ending lag prevents any of the aforementioned forms of control. You are truly helpless in every way, and are getting f-smashed, period.

 

[Splash Damage]

But that's more dubious, is that it's worth being 66% slower, losing the ability the reverse on-hit or on-block, and losing the broad range/control it can seek a ledge with.

That is what people should be concerned about; the recovery disadvantage is secondary.

My concern with O'OT is that It's a much more commanding force overall. It's main use is as a surprise attack OoS, from below a platform, or in edge guarding games. Besides the OoS, it has to be used when the opponent is conditioned to be spotdodging/airdodging an Up Air from below, as the Doc can read the air/spotdodge and punish with the tremendous kill power that O'OT has. The Normal Up B requires being more obvious, as you need to be at least somewhat near your opponent to hit with the respectably large killing hitbox, which can be read from a mile away. It does, however, have much better ability to command the Neutral game at higher percents, as it has more leeway with reading dashes and ledge getups with the larger hitbox, as well as being a safer option overall due to the ability to turn it around. Like I said, the O'OT is situational, but has a much better ability to punish with more strength and kill power off of harder reads.
Edit:After some testing, the ability to reverse Doc's normal Up-B offstage isn't very safe, as it is still a rather bad recovery option. That, and B-air is overall better for edgeguarding with Doc due to its speed and safe nature, though the normal Up B's utility in that regard is a plus. Also, his ability to drift after Normal Up-B takes a few frames to
activate, making any character that has either a good Perfect Pivot, Jump Cancel Up Smash, or long range F-smash still able to readily and heavily punish when shielding his reversed Up B. It is, however, safer than O'OT, but you really shouldn't be using it in any situation when it can be shielded at all.

 

[thehard]

http://smash.menu/customs.html We all see this?

 

[Raijinken]

@ A2ZOMG did a good job of explaining to me why doc up-b 3 carries additional costs that may not be obvious vs. the default. I still like it, but it's tough to justify imo.



Screw Attack is frame-5, does 12% damage total (but as low as 6-8% in most ground-ground uses), does up to 45 total shield damage, and kills at 281% from ground level.

Screw Rush is frame-11, does 15% damage total (consistently), does up to 33 total shield damage, and kills at 167% from ground level.

Apex Screw Attack is frame-15, does 11% damage total (consistently), does no extra shield damage, and kills at 131% from ground level.



I was originally a fan of Apex Screw Attack, but it's just a poor attack in every way outside of its kill power. Which, to be fair, Samus does really appreciate.

Remember:

• A frame 5 OoS option is really good.
• A frame-11 OoS option is not that good.
• But a frame-11 OoS option that covers the aerial space in front of you is fantastic.

Screw Rush is very similar to Crescent Slash. Also, note that the grounded version gives you way more helpless state control, and lets you always drift back to the stage.

Good points. I was also testing Screw Rush on the 3DS version, which I'm no longer fully acclimated to after spending so much time on the U version. I may experiment more, but currently (especially in my group, where punishing is easy) I'm more inclined to run either default or apex.

 

[Thinkaman]

I would be inclined to take the default or apex in most matchups as well. But I had previously overlooked Screw Rush completely, and I think that might be a mistake.

I also think I overrated the slow charge shot.

 

[MajorMajora]

Hey, I'm a Shulk user and I was trying to come up with what I thought would make good sets for him. For the standard 8 I feel comfortable in saying

1113
2113
3113
1123
2123
3123
1313
3313

For the next 2, though, I wanted to include lesser used ones since they would be replacing a more niche loaded set, theoretically. I was wondering if compact air slash had any uses as an OOS kill option. Has anyone tested this?

 

[Raijinken]

I would be inclined to take the default or apex in most matchups as well. But I had previously overlooked Screw Rush completely, and I think that might be a mistake.

I also think I overrated the slow charge shot.

Dense Charge Shot works much like the rest of the slow moves, in that it can be used to edgeguard or for a very hard read. I believe all three charge shots have their uses, but it's also worth noting that the dense charge shot will eat basically everything in its path.

 

[Teshie U]

http://smash.menu/customs.html We all see this?

Interesting read. If I could touch on one comment I saw from @ Praxis . Buffing specials does improve recoveries, OoS, projectiles and defensive options yes, but none of these things are used only for defense. Many improved projectiles help characters approach (villager big rocket, relentless missiles). Stronger recoveries allow for deeper riskier edguguarding that doesn't result in automatically killing yourself. Many high distance recoveries sacrifice hitboxes for the range (marth, mario).

A good deal of specials are high risk high reward that would cause a game to end faster regardless. (Shulk, Palutena)

I would be inclined to take the default or apex in most matchups as well. But I had previously overlooked Screw Rush completely, and I think that might be a mistake.

I also think I overrated the slow charge shot.

Slow Charge Shot is soooooooooo cool, but honestly, quickly punishing across longer distances with a kill move with high priority and speed is more important. Relentless missiles cover all the things you miss out on without dense charge shot.

 

[DunnoBro]

http://smash.menu/customs.html We all see this?

"New specials seems like a bad idea because the new specials are better"

Lol Praxis. Yea, because customs would be a good idea if they were worse than defaults.

Regardless, the idea specials are a mostly defensive mechanic is absurd. They're far too diverse to be categorically labeled "defensive" or "campy" as a whole.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Dense Charge Shot is really cool as an edgeguard trap and if you're super quick you can throw it out then toss someone into it before it vanishes. (Although I doubt the latter will work consistently.) But it completely changes the purpose of her Charge Shot in general and it's no longer the terrifying long range kill option it once was. I can see some players who don't use Charge Shot at range for whatever reason gravitating to the Dense version but it's a tough transition otherwise.

 

[thehard]

"New specials seems like a bad idea because the new specials are better"

Lol Praxis. Yea, because customs would be a good idea if they were worse than defaults.

Regardless, the idea specials are a mostly defensive mechanic is absurd. They're far too diverse to be categorically labeled "defensive" or "campy" as a whole.

I don't even think he's at all involved in Smash 4. The comment just sounded like a bunch of words designed to scare people

 

[Praxis]

It's possible that my views are influenced by the characters I play, but in both cases, Diddy and Peach, the specials only offer alternate (sometimes better) options for (A) Projectiles (light/heavy turnips or peanuts), (B) Recovery (high jump parasol, flying Peach bomber), and (C) counters (Toad).

All things that improve camp/defense/survival which makes games longer.

I'm willing to entertain the custom meta but I'm a skeptic. Smash 4 already has great great character variety, I don't think it's going to fix any issues the game has.

 

[DunnoBro]

It's possible that my views are influenced by the characters I play, but in both cases, Diddy and Peach, the specials only offer alternate (sometimes better) options for (A) Projectiles (light/heavy turnips or peanuts), (B) Recovery (high jump parasol, flying Peach bomber), and (C) counters (Toad).

All things that improve camp/defense/survival which makes games longer.

I'm willing to entertain the custom meta but I'm a skeptic. Smash 4 already has great great character variety, I don't think it's going to fix any issues the game has.

Flying peach bomber, and the counters actually have offensive applications though. And diddy is notorious for having the least appealing customs of any other character.

Also, none of the turnips let peach camp in any fashion. One is laggy as hell, and the floaty ones are too slow to be an effective projectile without the threat of frame trapping for grabs or punishing jumps (which requires peach to be nearby) And diddy's giant peanut is even worse for camping.

Regardless, you're looking at the customs two characters get and making a claim about all customs based on an already faulty assumption. And also assuming if a projectile is good, it's because it enables camp/defense/survival.

I think it's fair to say these coupled with your admitted lack of experience with customs should encourage you to refrain from speaking in such absolutes about customs.

 

[thehard]

It's possible that my views are influenced by the characters I play, but in both cases, Diddy and Peach, the specials only offer alternate (sometimes better) options for (A) Projectiles (light/heavy turnips or peanuts), (B) Recovery (high jump parasol, flying Peach bomber), and (C) counters (Toad).

All things that improve camp/defense/survival which makes games longer.

I'm willing to entertain the custom meta but I'm a skeptic. Smash 4 already has great great character variety, I don't think it's going to fix any issues the game has.

You're looking at it all wrong. Most of us don't feel Smash 4 has any big problems, we just see the great potential customs hold. We like the game as is, too. You think customs are duct tape but they're really gold paint.

How long are Smash matches supposed to be exactly? There are so many wildly different MUs in this game sets can last 5 minutes or 15. This is neither good or bad to me, it just is. I don't think Smash 4 has pacing issues.

For every improvement customs bring to camping, defense, and survival (this is a dubious claim IMO), characters also get wall breakers, combo starters, and kill moves.

 

[Teshie U]

Customs aren't going to make this game into some different style. Its not going to change what it is as its core. Its just going to make each character play at its best within this game's style.

I don't think its going to suddenly be hyper aggressive, but customs help more characters deal with universal defensive options and prominent offensive options in the meta.

I've only seen one character that might devolve into repeatedly spamming a custom special (DK) and quite honestly high level DK play in Brawl was 90% back air and retreating Up B into platforms. The character has been designed like **** since forever.

 

[Thinkaman]

The more I think about it, offense vs. defense (in any context) is a trick question. These are abstract ideas whose classification is entirely subjective.

• Is spamming projectiles offense or defense?
• What about throwing out safe walls of hitboxes?
• What if that wall of hitboxes are pressuring their shield?
• What if those spammable projectiles are pressuring their shields?
• What about running right up into your opponent's face and shielding?

We could consider initiative vs. reaction, but it's still entirely a grey area for all of those examples; they all involve both taking some action while also trying to see what the opponent does. On some level, all fighting game inputs are part of a constant state of both making inputs and responding to your opponents.

We could specifically consider whether or not you are approaching your opponent, but this too is a misleading criteria as some of the example suggest.

The deeper any inspection gets, the more arbitrary any distinction becomes.

At best, we can talk about the reward for voluntarily accepting risk relative to safe, non-risky options. We can also talk about the clarity of status quo advantage, which is to say how immediately and unambiguously obvious it is who will win if no risks are taken. (Which discourages stasis)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

So I'm pushing customs at my local ranking battles. As the main TO, I have a decent amount of say, but I don't want people to be discouraged. Anyone have a short list of "customs you should know about in advance"? Things like Kong Cyclone or Timber Counter - moves you really, really don't want to encounter for the first time in a tournament bracket. I already brought up those two, along with Superspeed/Leightweight. What else?

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

So I'm pushing customs at my local ranking battles. As the main TO, I have a decent amount of say, but I don't want people to be discouraged. Anyone have a short list of "customs you should know about in advance"? Things like Kong Cyclone or Timber Counter - moves you really, really don't want to encounter for the first time in a tournament bracket. I already brought up those two, along with Superspeed/Leightweight. What else?

Spinphony.

....pfft.


But seriously though:

- Dash Claw/Dash Grab (Bowser)
- Luma Warp (Rosalina)
- Hammer Spin Dash (Sonic)
- Pac-Man's Fruit customs
- Greninja's Shifting Shuriken

Couple of them~

 

[Luco]

So I'm pushing customs at my local ranking battles. As the main TO, I have a decent amount of say, but I don't want people to be discouraged. Anyone have a short list of "customs you should know about in advance"? Things like Kong Cyclone or Timber Counter - moves you really, really don't want to encounter for the first time in a tournament bracket. I already brought up those two, along with Superspeed/Leightweight. What else?

Yeah I went up against kong cyclone for the first time in tournament bracket. It was an unexpected surprise to say the least! ;_;

But fun, and cool. =3

 

[ParanoidDrone]

So I'm pushing customs at my local ranking battles. As the main TO, I have a decent amount of say, but I don't want people to be discouraged. Anyone have a short list of "customs you should know about in advance"? Things like Kong Cyclone or Timber Counter - moves you really, really don't want to encounter for the first time in a tournament bracket. I already brought up those two, along with Superspeed/Leightweight. What else?

Kong Cyclone: Massive windbox, super armor.
Timber Counter: Sapling causes trip, tree counterattacks on hit.
Luma Warp: Bloody fast, can slip through a lot of zoning.
Super Speed: Command dash, combos into aerials/usmash on hit.

Those are really the big ones I think. Of course almost every custom can catch you by surprise if you're unprepared, but most are similar enough for you to adapt easily enough. (I mean, there's very little difference between how you'd deal with FLUDD vs. High Pressure FLUDD.)

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So I'm pushing customs at my local ranking battles. As the main TO, I have a decent amount of say, but I don't want people to be discouraged. Anyone have a short list of "customs you should know about in advance"? Things like Kong Cyclone or Timber Counter - moves you really, really don't want to encounter for the first time in a tournament bracket. I already brought up those two, along with Superspeed/Leightweight. What else?

The four you've already brought up are IMO the wisest ones to bring up. I'd short-list Hammer Spin Dash as well and otherwise let it rock. There are other customs that are quite powerful of course, but telling people "hey, look out for the following 20 moves" isn't really doing them a big service so much as telling them "a lot of characters can do a lot of awesome things, and by the way I'd really suggest looking into these 5 moves in advance a bit since they can be a bit jarring".

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Maybe add Ike's Tempest to that list? Its absolutely lethal if he goes for an offstage gimp with it after all and he's very safe when doing so if he's smart.

 

[AccountsDept]

The more I think about it, offense vs. defense (in any context) is a trick question. These are abstract ideas whose classification is entirely subjective.

• Is spamming projectiles offense or defense?
• What about throwing out safe walls of hitboxes?
• What if that wall of hitboxes are pressuring their shield?
• What if those spammable projectiles are pressuring their shields?
• What about running right up into your opponent's face and shielding?

We could consider initiative vs. reaction, but it's still entirely a grey area for all of those examples; they all involve both taking some action while also trying to see what the opponent does. On some level, all fighting game inputs are part of a constant state of both making inputs and responding to your opponents.

We could specifically consider whether or not you are approaching your opponent, but this too is a misleading criteria as some of the example suggest.

The deeper any inspection gets, the more arbitrary any distinction becomes.

At best, we can talk about the reward for voluntarily accepting risk relative to safe, non-risky options. We can also talk about the clarity of status quo advantage, which is to say how immediately and unambiguously obvious it is who will win if no risks are taken. (Which discourages stasis)

bruh seriously why hasn't Nintendo hired you yet

Omni's comment about customs makes me die a little bit inside. "If it's broke, don't fix it" is a really dumb mentality. So many of human problems stem from not having the gout to ask the most important question - "Why?" If he had taken the three seconds to think about why items were banned, he'd probably also realize that banning custom moves are not even on the same plane of rationale as banning items.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So, I've gone down the list and posted on almost every board about the current situation and trying to help the conversations along in getting these movesets done on time. The following are the boards I have NOT posted on:

Captain Falcon: I honestly don't even know where to begin on this board.
Dark Pit/Pit: It seems like not only is this overall moveset kinda low activity, but almost everyone who plays one plays both which makes me unsure of how to properly connect with these players.
Palutena: Her customs are a difficult situation due to her design, but they're heavily discussed on her board so progress is happening here regardless.
Shulk: His board is very busy sorting stuff out in a procedural manner, no need to interrupt.
Sonic: I view posting on this board as equivalent to kicking a beehive, dangerous and only to be done at great need.
Zelda: Her board is discussing customs in great detail across a ton of topics, best to come back later.

This makes the main priorities I haven't reached Captain Falcon and the Pits since Palutena/Shulk/Zelda just had no need of me posting and we can figure Sonic out I promise.

I do feel very good about our ability to be done on time.

Also since it was brought up:

http://smash.menu/customs.html

I'm going to be a guest on this roundtable which starts in a little over 4 hours. The last roundtable discussion I was a part of I had significant technical problems with my connection, but it was a pretty good talk regardless. Given that I am a customs expert and I have better hardware now, I'm really looking forward to this.

 

[Piford]

So, I've gone down the list and posted on almost every board about the current situation and trying to help the conversations along in getting these movesets done on time. The following are the boards I have NOT posted on:

Captain Falcon: I honestly don't even know where to begin on this board.
Dark Pit/Pit: It seems like not only is this overall moveset kinda low activity, but almost everyone who plays one plays both which makes me unsure of how to properly connect with these players.
Palutena: Her customs are a difficult situation due to her design, but they're heavily discussed on her board so progress is happening here regardless.
Shulk: His board is very busy sorting stuff out in a procedural manner, no need to interrupt.
Sonic: I view posting on this board as equivalent to kicking a beehive, dangerous and only to be done at great need.
Zelda: Her board is discussing customs in great detail across a ton of topics, best to come back later.

This makes the main priorities I haven't reached Captain Falcon and the Pits since Palutena/Shulk/Zelda just had no need of me posting and we can figure Sonic out I promise.

I do feel very good about our ability to be done on time.

Also since it was brought up:

http://smash.menu/customs.html

I'm going to be a guest on this roundtable which starts in a little over 4 hours. The last roundtable discussion I was a part of I had significant technical problems with my connection, but it was a pretty good talk regardless. Given that I am a customs expert and I have better hardware now, I'm really looking forward to this.

I was thinking since Pit and Dark Pit are identical besides their specials (and Forward Tilt and initial dash speed for some reason), couldn't you kind of use them as a way to have 20 different sets for them. Pit and Dark Pit are some of the characters that need it the least, but regardless it seems silly to waste it. Obviously the better sets (like 3111, 1113, and 3113) might be worth having on both, but for reach sets having different ones each character might be a better use of resources. Maybe give Pit breezy flight customs, but give Dark Pit attacking Flight ones.

 

[Firefoxx]

So, I've gone down the list and posted on almost every board about the current situation and trying to help the conversations along in getting these movesets done on time. The following are the boards I have NOT posted on:

Captain Falcon: I honestly don't even know where to begin on this board.
.

The Falcon board is one of the most frustrating things on this website.

The only change I can even think to make to his customs is replacing 3123 with 2123 just so that you have every combination of 211X and 212x possible since those are really his only viable sets