Official: SSBPD unsupported; source code released.

[ajp_anton]

Finland and Sweden just happens to have more data uploaded than pretty much any other country atm which is the reason they are on the list

Haha, I just uploaded a lot of old tio files from the old SVAR series + a few more Swedish tournaments =).

edit:
I also have a lot of bracket images on my homepage without tio files. Maybe someone with some free time can recreate at keast the bracket part in tio.

 

[Kal]

By pure Elo, do you mean the following formula?

R_A' = R_A + K(S_A - E_A)

where the expected score, E_A, satisfies E_A = 1/(1 + 10^{(R_B - R_A)/400}), with actual score S_A.

 

[FoxLisk]

yes

/10yes

 

[Mahie]

Would it be possible to make it so that each region has its own URL? It was the case before the switch to tick boxes, but now, if you go in a region, it'll only show "http://www.ssbpd.com/region" and thus, you can't directly link someone to it.

 

[FoxLisk]

Would it be possible to make it so that each region has its own URL? It was the case before the switch to tick boxes, but now, if you go in a region, it'll only show "http://www.ssbpd.com/region" and thus, you can't directly link someone to it.

i mean you can already do it, it's just hacky. i just kinda wanted one/many regions unified which required either insanely ******** URLs or just using query strings and numbers. behind the scenes it's still basically just /region?region=1, but now you can have /reg?region=1,2,3,4. they're just not obviously visible on the site for reasons of my own convenience, basically.
it would be very easy to make URLs like /region/1,2,3,4 w/o the query string part... maybe i'll do that.

 

[stelzig]

Looks like I forgot to add in the date for Hey7. The date is supposed to be january 2011 (don't have the exact date)

 

[Penguin_ftw]

LOL Ken is 1490

 

[arbustos]

Hey yo, small thing but I'm entered as superkawaiidesumoechan on the Winter gamefest results. Not sure how the whole "entered as a different name" thing is sorted out but figured I'd say cuz that's literally the only tournament I didn't enter as stabbedbya_____

also because the name superkawaiidesumoechan is ridiculous

Reminds me of Nes Noob entering Tipped Off 5 as Sugoi Kawaii Moe Chan.

He was ahead of the curve in a lot of ways.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Most annoying tournament was the SMYM where there were 10 Virus<color>Mage. I think IHSB was VirusIndigoMage but I can never tell

 

[arbustos]

Most annoying tournament was the SMYM where there were 10 Virus<color>Mage. I think IHSB was VirusIndigoMage but I can never tell

That was POE3. If Peef doesn't have the TIO file, I'll remake the bracket with correct tags.

These made bracket I think:
VirusIndigoMage: ihavespaceballs
VirusTealMage: VTS
VirusRobin'sEggBlueMage: Yoshiman
VirusSepiaMage: me

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

oh right it was POE lollllll

i think theres a bracket image somewhere

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Just got the first Genesis uploaded. The gap between Armada and everyone else narrowed by quite a bit. Can't wait to get more data!

 

[Gastogh]

This is awesome. Made an account to thank those involved for doing this. FoxLisk for Member of the Year! If no such title exists, then Member of the Year for FoxLisk.

Got a few questions and comments, too:

1.

We use the same formula that USCF uses, and can been seen here.

I was looking at the list of players ordered by rating, and I noticed that only 12 players have ratings below 1000. In general, the median rating of the SSPDB seems to be way above the median rating of the USCF (657 according to the Wikipedia page), so obviously there has to be some difference in the formula you're using. Did you guys intentionally go for a higher median? Not really complaining, I'd just like to know for reference.

2. Would it be possible to have each player's Elo progress displayed in the "Recent sets"-lists? Right now it only displays the current, up-to-date rating. An example from Zgetto's match history:

Loss to Armada (1913) at Smash Attack (Match History) - 04/03/2009
Loss to Armada (1913) at Smash Attack (Match History) - 04/03/2009
Win over Armada (1913) at Smash Attack (Match History) - 04/03/2009

1913 is Armada's rating today and not back then, and of course his rating should have changed upon every win and loss. Right now I can find out a player's rating at the time of any particular tournament by seeing when the tournament was played and then checking that player's Elo History graph for the corresponding date, but that seems a rather convoluted way of doing things, doesn't it?

There'd be another benefit for this, too: the progress of a player's rating would be much more fine-grained. Right now, the rating changes of the graph only reflect what the rating was before and after a tournament. Bringing it down to the accuracy of sets would be great.

3. The ratings sometimes jump around too much, and in ways that don't make sense. For example, around the time of Smash Attack (May 3, 2009), Zgetto's rating was 1692 and Armada's was 1925. Then Armada drops one set to Zgetto (and wins two) and his rating drops over 500 points to 1408, below his opponent's. Zgetto also lost like 330 points from that clash. Shouldn't the net change of Elo in a match be more or less +/- 0? What one loses, the other gains? Right now it seems as though it's possible for both players to lose, and that doesn't seem right.

4. It'd be nice to have an option to sort the list of tournaments alphabetically as well as by date - makes it easier to check how many installments a particular tourney series has, for one. Also, if such information can be extracted from the files easily, it'd be cool to know the number of entrants for each tournament (and sort by that information, of course ).

 

[Jeapie]

Yo this is awesome!
I am wondering where you got this information though:

``Jeapie: Loss to Pepito (1570) at Berlin Calling (Match History)``

Since I won ;O

DAMN YOU LUMA! ( host of berlin calling )
<3

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

1. The reason our average elo is much higher is because right now for the purpose of building a large base of accurate elos quickly, we are using a base rating for every player of 1200. The USCF uses a provisional ratings formula for a players first tournament, and a larger k value for so many matches, which is a system we may eventually adopt. It really only works though when you have a large majority of your players already rated.

2. That's a system FoxLisk is open to if we get enough demand for it. I personally would like to see it presented much more like the USCF databases.

3. The ratings are recalculated ever so often chronologically, but the graphs are not. So Armada didn't actually drop to 1400 at that point in time. When that tournament was processed, he likely increased to that elo.

4. That's definitely a question for FoxLisk.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Yo this is awesome!
I am wondering where you got this information though:

``Jeapie: Loss to Pepito (1570) at Berlin Calling (Match History)``

Since I won ;O

DAMN YOU LUMA! ( host of berlin calling )
<3

This can be fixed but I need verification either from the other player, the TO, or a video link.

 

[Jeapie]

Ofcourse.

The point is that anybody who uploads a tournament can modify the results or bracket in his favor/ change it.
Therefore this might not be that reliable as it seems.
Prove me wrong please because this is really neat!

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Ofcourse.

The point is that anybody who uploads a tournament can modify the results or bracket in his favor/ change it.
Therefore this might not be that reliable as it seems.
Prove me wrong please because this is really neat!

True but I really don't see this being a problem. And of course there are always ways to verify a win or loss.

 

[ajp_anton]

Yo this is awesome!
I am wondering where you got this information though:

``Jeapie: Loss to Pepito (1570) at Berlin Calling (Match History)``

Since I won ;O

DAMN YOU LUMA! ( host of berlin calling )
<3

I'm the one who uploaded the tio file, which I found on my own homepage.

In the bracket, you faced Armada in your first round. If you won against Pepito, you should've been 1st in that pool, so the whole bracket is messed up.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

I'm the one who uploaded the tio file, which I found on my own homepage.

In the bracket, you faced Armada in your first round. If you won against Pepito, you should've been 1st in that pool, so the whole bracket is messed up.

Is it just entered incorrectly? Or was it played out incorrectly...

 

[ajp_anton]

I mean that either he remember it incorrectly, or there's more than just one error made in that tournament. The bracket says he faced Armada, which means he got 2nd in his pool, and there are videos backing up big parts of the bracket.

Videos, tio file and bracket image can be found here:
http://ajpanton.se/ssbm/100402-BerlinCalling/

edit: Oh, and Pepito had his legendary set against Tero in the first round. I saw it and it was recorded. Tero was 2nd in his pool, further proof that Pepito was 1st.

 

[FoxLisk]

This is awesome. Made an account to thank those involved for doing this. FoxLisk for Member of the Year! If no such title exists, then Member of the Year for FoxLisk.

:D

1.
I was looking at the list of players ordered by rating, and I noticed that only 12 players have ratings below 1000. In general, the median rating of the SSPDB seems to be way above the median rating of the USCF (657 according to the Wikipedia page), so obviously there has to be some difference in the formula you're using. Did you guys intentionally go for a higher median? Not really complaining, I'd just like to know for reference.

1. The reason our average elo is much higher is because right now for the purpose of building a large base of accurate elos quickly, we are using a base rating for every player of 1200. The USCF uses a provisional ratings formula for a players first tournament, and a larger k value for so many matches, which is a system we may eventually adopt. It really only works though when you have a large majority of your players already rated.

This is true. There's another reason though. The way tournaments are run, it's very possible for a 1050 rated player to never play an opponent who's under like 1500, just because we only run open tournaments - there's no segregation by bracket. Then even if he goes like 0-10, he'll only lose a few points.

2. Would it be possible to have each player's Elo progress displayed in the "Recent sets"-lists? Right now it only displays the current, up-to-date rating. An example from Zgetto's match history:
1913 is Armada's rating today and not back then, and of course his rating should have changed upon every win and loss. Right now I can find out a player's rating at the time of any particular tournament by seeing when the tournament was played and then checking that player's Elo History graph for the corresponding date, but that seems a rather convoluted way of doing things, doesn't it?

It doesn't seem convoluted to me at all - being interested in a player's ELO at a particular tournament seems really weird to me. The long trends are the part that I find interesting. I can probably do something like this though since apparently some people want it.

There'd be another benefit for this, too: the progress of a player's rating would be much more fine-grained. Right now, the rating changes of the graph only reflect what the rating was before and after a tournament. Bringing it down to the accuracy of sets would be great.

Absolutely not happening. A tournament is a unit of time.

3. The ratings sometimes jump around too much, and in ways that don't make sense. For example, around the time of Smash Attack (May 3, 2009), Zgetto's rating was 1692 and Armada's was 1925. Then Armada drops one set to Zgetto (and wins two) and his rating drops over 500 points to 1408, below his opponent's. Zgetto also lost like 330 points from that clash. Shouldn't the net change of Elo in a match be more or less +/- 0? What one loses, the other gains? Right now it seems as though it's possible for both players to lose, and that doesn't seem right.

This is almost certainly an accident of ratings not having been reprocessed since that tournament was uploaded, as Ziv explained.

3. The ratings are recalculated ever so often chronologically, but the graphs are not. So Armada didn't actually drop to 1400 at that point in time. When that tournament was processed, he likely increased to that elo.

The graphs are rebuilt along with the ratings, actually.

4. It'd be nice to have an option to sort the list of tournaments alphabetically as well as by date - makes it easier to check how many installments a particular tourney series has, for one.

yeah that's pretty easy, i can add that soon.

Also, if such information can be extracted from the files easily, it'd be cool to know the number of entrants for each tournament (and sort by that information, of course ).

also fairly easy, and something I've been meaning to do.

I don't think I'm gonna have any time to work on the site today, but hopefully I'll get a bunch of these kind of little improvements done tomorrow.

 

[Dan Salvato]

This player "delete_me" represents IHaveSpaceBalls, who didn't show up at APEX.

http://ssbpd.com/player/delete_me

Not sure what you want to do about that, but several players including myself have recorded wins over him.

 

[Bones0]

I'm the one who uploaded the tio file, which I found on my own homepage.

In the bracket, you faced Armada in your first round. If you won against Pepito, you should've been 1st in that pool, so the whole bracket is messed up.

Report your matches people. lol

 

[FoxLisk]

This player "delete_me" represents IHaveSpaceBalls, who didn't show up at APEX.

http://ssbpd.com/player/delete_me

Not sure what you want to do about that, but several players including myself have recorded wins over him.

yeah we're aware of this... it's only happened a couple times so it's kind of a low priority thing that I haven't gotten time to decide how to solve yet. It'll get resolved before long, though.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

This player "delete_me" represents IHaveSpaceBalls, who didn't show up at APEX.

http://ssbpd.com/player/delete_me

Not sure what you want to do about that, but several players including myself have recorded wins over him.

There are two ways this can happen and I'm pretty sure I'm on the same page with FoxLisk on this. Since IHSB never showed up, he will not lose any points, nor will you gain any for the win. I'll probably just reupload it without him in there. TOs need to be aware of who is in attendance to help prevent this from happening.

However, another example is a player showing up and not playing all their matches, thus forfeitting some games. In that case the losses count and the player will lose elo accordingly, and the opponents will gain them.

 

[FoxLisk]

possibly I but probably my hosting provider ****ed something up pretty bad so right now most of the site is totally screwed. It'll be back up as soon as i get word from them about what's up - either what they need to fix or what i need to do to make it work.

sorry about this everyone.

Edit:

Okay, things are mostly back in working order. Some data was lost - not much, i don't think, but I haven't taken a very close look. I noticed a couple tournaments are missing information, I don't know the full extent yet. Sorry againa bout the interruption.

 

[Mahone]

****ING STICKY THIS **** ALREADY!!!!! WHY ARE THE MODS SO QUICK TO GIVE ME INFRACTIONS AND **** BUT CANT STICKY THIS ****ING MASTERPIECE???????????

AlphaZealot, Fly_Amanita, Teczero, ArcNatural
AlphaZealot, Fly_Amanita, Teczero, ArcNatural
AlphaZealot, Fly_Amanita, Teczero, ArcNatural
AlphaZealot, Fly_Amanita, Teczero, ArcNatural

 

[Bones0]

We are the 99%, Mahone.

 

[KishPrime]

Already sent these to arbustos, but figured some people might enjoy some oldies.

www.nd.edu/~tkish/TIO.zip

Still working on hammering some out. People didn't know how to bracket in 2003.

 

[Bones0]

Hey, I had a random idea. Would it be possible for people to submit individual matches? Like if I am going to money match/pride match someone, would it be possible for us to submit just that single match to affect our Elo rating? I just think it'd be cool if you could turn pride matches into Elo matches so you have something a little more concrete to fight for (other than money, b/c smashers are broke as you know).

 

[Varist]

only if it's limited to one pride match per regional+ tournament. can't have people grinding out elo's with the same person 5 pride matches at every local every week.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, I was thinking about what would happen with multiple matches, especially vs. the same people. I think your idea of a limit of 1 pride match per week could work, but I'm starting to think that even that would only serve to throw off the ratings. It would be dumb if someone was rated higher just because they pride matched someone who doesn't give a crap about their rating every weekend. The best alternative I can come up with is just being able to include a list of private matches for novelty and have them not affect ratings at all. More of an insignificant feature so the idea can probably be ignored at least until more important stuff is ironed out.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

This database is awesome.

I just wanted to ask (I don't know if it's been asked already): sometimes players have identical aliases. For example, in Texas we already have two players named Vash, and from looking at the database there is a player that goes by Vash that attended WGF VI. Is there any way to differentiate between players with identical aliases, or should we just ask some of those Vash(es) to change their names lol.

This could be resolved with specific ID code assigned for each player. There are also players that might change their Aliases, although that is rare.

Also, it would be nice to have more information about the best players on the list, or anyone really. Maybe link it with the smashwiki or create separate database for each player with information like the character main etc..

 

[Paju]

Also, it would be nice to have more information about the best players on the list, or anyone really. Maybe link it with the smashwiki or create separate database for each player with information like the character main etc..

That's actually very cool idea as the smashwiki is pretty much dead. I guess it would be possible to do if you choose one player from each region to write some information about every player on his/her region.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I'm pretty sure this has been suggested already, but it would be cool to be able to assign youtube links to a specific set.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

As far as pride/MMs go, they will not be rated or included in the db. A lot of those types of matches use character restrictions; ie "I will money match your Falco vs my Marth." Those types of stipulations affect the outcome of the match. Not only that but a TO isn't involved in the match either. The water quickly becomes muddy. It's best to just not include them.

Player profiles is a cool idea.

YouTube links is something we may get to. I personally would like to see it.

 

[FoxLisk]

I'm hesitant to add youtube links just because it would be so difficult to police. I'm not sure if there's a reasonable way to make it consistent so I don't know if i want iffy info or none.

I agree with Zivilyn Bane about pride/MMs. This isn't the place for showmatches.

I don't really agree with the player profiles thing. We've all seen what happened to the smash wiki. The more centralized, hands-on upkeep we ask of ourselves the more likely people will get daunted and give up. If you need to know more about a top player, namesearch them on youtube & swf.

 

[Paju]

I don't really agree with the player profiles thing. We've all seen what happened to the smash wiki. The more centralized, hands-on upkeep we ask of ourselves the more likely people will get daunted and give up. If you need to know more about a top player, namesearch them on youtube & swf.

I'm pretty sure that if you could find one player from each region who is interested in updating the player profiles of his/her region it won't die like smashwiki (I would imagine finding players like that won't be a problem for the MBR). We actually have similiar thing in Finland, writed by bËst: http://smashfinland.munpalsta.com/index.php?topic=140.0. It features most of the currently active Finnish melee players and it's very good source of information for the new players. It doesn't even require much updating after it's writed, as scanning through the text and rewriting the things that have changed (like main character changes, retirements etc.) about once per year is undoubtedly enough.

 

[Slhoka]

I'm hesitant to add youtube links just because it would be so difficult to police. I'm not sure if there's a reasonable way to make it consistent so I don't know if i want iffy info or none.

I agree with Zivilyn Bane about pride/MMs. This isn't the place for showmatches.

I don't really agree with the player profiles thing. We've all seen what happened to the smash wiki. The more centralized, hands-on upkeep we ask of ourselves the more likely people will get daunted and give up. If you need to know more about a top player, namesearch them on youtube & swf.

I agree, pride/MMs shouldn't be there.
As for the player profile, I don't really think it'd be that important. Statistics are already good to make a objective description.

I'd love to see Youtube links, though. You could make it a moderator-only option (it would require more mods, though, because it represents a lot of work).