[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[DekuBoy]

Sadly, Skull Kid is one of those characters pretty much everyone would love in Super Smash Bros but who probably will never get in. If we got our own poll I would definitly nominate him.

 

[Clownbot]

Really? I personally would prefer a different LoZ character. But, yeah, he probably won't get in either way.

EDIT: @sudayseclipse, yeah, I'll be sure to do that.

 

[majora_787]

HAPPY 4TH OF JULY , GET WASTED AND BLOW **** UP GUYS

Since when do I need a holiday for that?

 

[The Adder]

Excuse me for not reading through 1,300+ pages, but I was wondering if anyone thought of variable movesets for every character?

Basically giving you a list of neutral, ^, <>, and v special, tilt, aerial, and smash moves your character can use and having you choose which ones you want.

It's kind of like "Grooves" or "Isms" except even more varied.

 

[majora_787]

Excuse me for not reading through 1,300+ pages, but I was wondering if anyone thought of variable movesets for every character?

Basically giving you a list of neutral, ^, <>, and v special, tilt, aerial, and smash moves your character can use and having you choose which ones you want.

It's kind of like "Grooves" or "Isms" except even more varied.

You know, I heard of this awesome thread called "Make Your Move" ...

You should try it.

 

[Pieman0920]

I agree with your first statement, but that is what Sakurai sais, and there is an EXTREMELY good chance Sakurai will be directing the next Smash.

Then why do you think Balloon Fighter will get in? Sakurai said he couldn't create a moveset for BF so that pretty much makes him as invalid as a AC chacater.

As for the "groove/ism" stuff, I think it could work out fine if it only is applied to special moves, rather than every other move. If it was done with every move, then it would not only be too much work, but it'd really take the appeal out of learning new characters, since you could just take one, and customize it.

 

[SmashChu]

You know, I heard of this awesome thread called "Make Your Move" ...

You should try it.

Make your Move is more moveset ideas. This is just a general gameplay mechanic.

Then why do you think Balloon Fighter will get in? Sakurai said he couldn't create a moveset for BF so that pretty much makes him as invalid as a AC chacater.

Some of the reasons were joking. He mentioned for Ballon Fighter that if his ballons popped, he'd be useless. I think he was joking.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Wow I missed some good stuff. Excuse me while I quickly address a few things.

1) No to a second pokemon trainer. That defeats the purpose of the first one. Why risk detracting from his uniqueness? Mewtwo, a 5th gen pokemon, or perhaps both would suffice, imo.

2) Kudos to whoever propose Tingle for SSB4. Yeah, we know how disliked he is, but let's not think popularity for a second. Tingle is easily one of the most recognizable characters in the Zelda series. He makes many appearances in the franchise, as well as star in two spin offs. Other than Link, he's the only character to do so. I think he's fairly deserving. Also, having his catchphrase as a taunt would be ace. Kooloo-Limpah.

3) I can actually see the Wario franchise―more appropriately, the WarioWare franchise, getting two new reps. Mona and Jimmy T. It's not quite outlandish when you think about it.

4) I saw "boss sizes" being tossed around a bit. Simply put, I think some of the bosses should be huge. Really huge. I own a game called "Oboro Muramasa"―you might have heard of it. Some of the bosses there are gargantuan, for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeHXyWR3scs

I think some bosses should rightfully be this huge, whilst some, mini-bosses included, like Protoman (Let me dream, please) should be like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWX_6a7jHWE

 

[lordvaati]

here's an intresting idea: midair grabs.I'm not talking about grabbing someone out of the air-I'm referring to jumping up at a falling opponent and grabbing them from midair. Some characters can already do this, but those are their B moves, so they don't really count. is it a good idea?

 

[The Adder]

You know, I heard of this awesome thread called "Make Your Move" ...

You should try it.

What does this have to do with anything? I was making a suggestion for a game mechanic that could be implemented in SSB4, which is kind of what this topic is about, you know, discussing ideas for SSB4.

 

[majora_787]

Wow I missed some good stuff. Excuse me while I quickly address a few things.

1) No to a second pokemon trainer. That defeats the purpose of the first one. Why risk detracting from his uniqueness? Mewtwo, a 5th gen pokemon, or perhaps both would suffice, imo.

2) Kudos to whoever propose Tingle for SSB4. Yeah, we know how disliked he is, but let's not think popularity for a second. Tingle is easily one of the most recognizable characters in the Zelda series. He makes many appearances in the franchise, as well as star in two spin offs. Other than Link, he's the only character to do so. I think he's fairly deserving. Also, having his catchphrase as a taunt would be ace. Kooloo-Limpah.

3) I can actually see the Wario franchise―more appropriately, the WarioWare franchise, getting two new reps. Mona and Jimmy T. It's not quite outlandish when you think about it.

4) I saw "boss sizes" being tossed around a bit. Simply put, I think some of the bosses should be huge. Really huge. I own a game called "Oboro Muramasa"―you might have heard of it. Some of the bosses there are gargantuan, for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeHXyWR3scs

I think some bosses should rightfully be this huge, whilst some, mini-bosses included, like Protoman (Let me dream, please) should be like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWX_6a7jHWE

A boss that big would be amazing. That'd be worth doing adventure mode again to see that.

 

[sundayseclipse]

like i said before tingle would rip off ballon fighters chances and the same reason exciteabike and others arnt playable is becuase sakurai cant see them as fighters and he probably thinks the same with tingle.

http://pluckylump.deviantart.com/art/SSBB-Everyone-Hates-Tingle-79974436

yah i went there what are you gona do about it.

 

[Pieman0920]

Tingle can fight though, and does so in his games. Actually the more I look at his game, the more I realize that if he was included, Balloon Fighter would be obsolete, so it does make sense for Enzo to not want Tingle in.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Ryu and Akuma for SSB4

HELL TO THE YES!!! I want Street Fighter characters in the next Smash! Forget Megaman, Ryu is a fighting game character BY DESIGN and he deserves to be in the next Smash! As long as I'm listing things I'd like in the next game...

- Buff Ganondorf LIKE CRAZY... Give him his original Melee properties or hell, just give him a sword and a different moveset.

- Make Brawl Falcon, Melee Falcon. That is all needed there.

- Give Sonic more priority on his attacks (seriously) and less lag. A LOT less lag. If MK can have a spammy Dsmash with zero lag, Sonic at least deserves a decent jab, good finishers and a better move than his slow neutral B!

- Bring back Pichu (lol jk he was terrible)!

- Bring back Roy and Mewtwo and give Roy a more unique moveset, to differentiate him from Marth.

- Remove Jigglypuff. I cannot stand her and I know their are better choices out there.

Newcomers

- New Sonic characters are a must! Tails would have an awesome recovery and could combo well with his tail attacks. Plus he could have gadgets (being the geeky one of the group) that allowed him to control the stage.

- Knuckles I can see being one of the best characters in the new Smash game with all his abilities. Think about it, he can climb walls, glide through the air, dig tunnels and he has freakin spikes on his fists. He would obviously have an amazing jab game and high priority (how could he not) plus a recovery well above average.

-Replace R.O.B with Dr.Robotnik (Eggman). This one is ALL too obvious. Eggman could share a majority of Robs moveset and in addition to all his crazy gadgets and robots, he would be an amazing character.

- Shadow should be in it too, but please Nintendo NO GUNS!!! He should have a similar moveset to Sonic, but less Spin attacks and more time control moves. He could do things like deflect projectiles and warp around the stage.

- As for Ryu and Akuma, give them all their original SF moves and they will ****, plain and simple.

 

[Arcadenik]

I really would love for these five Pokemon characters to be playable in SSB4:

Pikachu
Meowth
Pokemon Trainer (Gold with Johto starters)
Lucario
5th gen movie Pokemon

They cover many areas in the Pokemon franchise. Pikachu and Meowth (not Jigglypuff) are the stars of the anime and they represent the 1st gen. Gold and the Johto starters are the stars of HeartGold/SoulSilver and they represent the 2nd gen. Lucario and the 5th gen movie Pokemon are the stars of the latest movies and they respectively represent the 4th gen and the 5th gen.

I also don't think there should be a second Pokemon Trainer. It should be either Red and Kanto starters or Gold and Johto starters, not both. I also really hope that Jigglypuff doesn't return in SSB4 - if I wanted to play as Jigglypuff, I can always go back to Melee and Brawl. I main Mewtwo in Melee and I don't mind if he's not in Brawl. I can always go back to Melee whenever I wanted to play as Mewtwo.

 

[Clownbot]

On the subject of Tingle and Balloon Fighter being too similar, I don't think we have to worry about that.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't see why the Balloon Fighter should be playable. He's pretty much replaced by Alice the Balloon Kid and later by Tingle. Tingle can do everything the Balloon Fighter (and Alice) can do and much more thanks to his Rupeeland games. Maybe that's what Sakurai meant when he decided the Balloon Fighter wouldn't be a very good fighter with a made-up moveset since the Balloon Fighter pretty much has virtually none to draw from except landing on people's heads. At least the Ice Climbers had mallets so they could pretty much do whatever they wanted with them. Now, Tingle, he would make a better Balloon Fighter since he had done much more than landing on people's heads like dropping bombs to rapid-firing Rupees like a machine gun.

 

[sundayseclipse]

I don't see why the Balloon Fighter should be playable. He's pretty much replaced by Alice the Balloon Kid and later by Tingle. Tingle can do everything the Balloon Fighter (and Alice) can do and much more thanks to his Rupeeland games. Maybe that's what Sakurai meant when he decided the Balloon Fighter wouldn't be a very good fighter with a made-up moveset since the Balloon Fighter pretty much has virtually none to draw from except landing on people's heads. At least the Ice Climbers had mallets so they could pretty much do whatever they wanted with them. Now, Tingle, he would make a better Balloon Fighter since he had done much more than landing on people's heads like dropping bombs to rapid-firing Rupees like a machine gun.

..rapid fire rupee machine gun


WTF

 

[SmashChu]

Wow I missed some good stuff. Excuse me while I quickly address a few things.
1) No to a second pokemon trainer. That defeats the purpose of the first one. Why risk detracting from his uniqueness? Mewtwo, a 5th gen pokemon, or perhaps both would suffice, imo.

Yeah, someone agrees with me.

2) Kudos to whoever propose Tingle for SSB4. Yeah, we know how disliked he is, but let's not think popularity for a second. Tingle is easily one of the most recognizable characters in the Zelda series. He makes many appearances in the franchise, as well as star in two spin offs. Other than Link, he's the only character to do so. I think he's fairly deserving. Also, having his catchphrase as a taunt would be ace. Kooloo-Limpah.

As much as I like Tingle (and how I think your right on how recognizable he'd be), I don't think he'll ever be in Smash. I say this because Sakurai adds character which make people want to play the game. Tingle would be the opposite, it would deter people from the game. As awesome as he is, people don't like him.

3) I can actually see the Wario franchise―more appropriately, the WarioWare franchise, getting two new reps. Mona and Jimmy T. It's not quite outlandish when you think about it.

I think it might. There is a lot of potential there (including for Female characters hmm). My idea for Mona was for her to work like Gen from Street Fighter. He down B would change her fighting style.

4) I saw "boss sizes" being tossed around a bit. Simply put, I think some of the bosses should be huge. Really huge. I own a game called "Oboro Muramasa"―you might have heard of it. Some of the bosses there are gargantuan, for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeHXyWR3scs

I think some bosses should rightfully be this huge, whilst some, mini-bosses included, like Protoman (Let me dream, please) should be like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWX_6a7jHWE

Yeah, that could be cool. But, who would the big bosses be?

 

[Clownbot]

A lot of gamers in Japan (and even the good U.S. of A.) LOVE Tingle. As much as I hate to say it, Japan has more influence over the roster, so...

I don't think Wario deserves three reps, also.

 

[Pieman0920]

There are a couple Metroid bosses that are around the size of the one shown in that video, such as Kraid, and Quadraxis, though only Kraid I think is significant enough.

And yeah, Tingle has enough support to get two games of his own over in Japan, so I don't see the problem. Plus, lots of people who don't like Pokemon in the US don't mind that they are in the game, since they can beat them up all they want.

And yes, two new Wario reps is a bit much. I think only one needs to get for the next game.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Just some other quick stuff, I didn't notice the thing about Waluigi and what Sakurai mentioned. It's interesting, and I think we may all be wrong on Mario characters.

My think for the next has become to look at the assist trophies. I think a lot of them were added because people wanted them. Lyn is a good example of this as we loved her in the West, but Japan doesn't feel the same way. Saki's page on the Dojo has something similar to Waluigi's but is more direct. He say he knew a lot of people wanted to see this character (funfact: when the roster was decided, Sin and Punishment was not released on the VC, so it was still a Japanese only game).

I think there are going to be a good amount of fighters who were once assist trophies.


Arguement 1. Words have multiple meaning. He could also mean "I picked all the characters in 2006" like I'm saying. What you are doing is mincing words. Also, since he was talking though a translator, I doubt the translator would use tricky wording. And, since the message was transferred via a third party, it is doubtful any tricky words would be used for the third party because there is no purpose in doing so. What does he gain from everyone believing wrong information?

Arguement 2.No. The point of the sticky-ed favorite character thread was to collect information from western fans. It even said that in his letter.

Arguement 3.Yet he kept Ness. If they were so similar, why keep Ness if his goal was just to replace him with Lucas. But he decided to kept both. If he was working on that principle, then why would he have chosen characters based on what he wanted then asking what people wanted. It's not consistent.

Arguement 4.What about Generation 3? If the goal was to represent other generations then where was the gen 3 character. The added more gen 1 Pokemon but not gen 3 (maybe because Gen 1 is the one everyone loves hmm).

Arguement 5.Also, one problem with this logic is that Sakuria said that the character has to want to make people play the game (this is why Tingle wont appear). We didn't know is Lucas or Lucario would have pissed people off like Tingle does. Then what? Of course, this may also mean "characters people want to see." People were happy to see Pit and Wario because they have wanted those characters for a long time. Meaning part of it is also popularity.


I'm just saying what he said. But, again, I assume a lot of the work was on logistics more then anything else. Also, the game was running off the Melee engine and most of the effects and actions came right from that game. They probably didn't get very far.

Arguement 6.One thing I will say is you claim that we are talking in the stone age when the claim can not be proven. Heck, if he was also using Melee data for characters (which could very well be true for characters like Diddy, Wolf, and Wario) doesn't that mean he was using what people liked over what he thought he could make an interesting character out of? Also, most of the characters were ones that were popular. Pokemon Trainer exemplifies this as he uses Pokemon only from the first generation. I know that this is everyone's favorite by far. But, if his goal was representation, why not use gen 3 or gen 4 starters? I don't think the claim "Sakurai chooses only what can make a good moveset" is entirely truthful.

Well, I worked so it took me this long to get back.

1. Sakurai can speak and write in English. He's actually better at both than Miyamoto. Even with a interpreter, I'm fairly sure he'd be able to clarify what he said.

2. You're thinking of the Character suggestion thread. The thread with Sakurai's letter was a different thread. That thread asked how people felt about Wario, Snake, Metaknight, Pit, and ZSS and if people thought they were good choices.

3. Probably because Ness was part of the original 12 and getting rid of him after having him in two games wouldn't have made much sense. Also, even the poll didn't show that Lucas wasn't that strongly wanted because Mother 3 sold much less than Earthbound and I even believe Mother did sold more in Japan so that eliminates the theory that there was a decent push for him. In a sense, it provides more evidence that Sakurai added Lucas more based on his own wants than the wants of others.

4. Your logic here is flawed. Why would every generation have to be represented by a playable character?

5. For God knows what reason, Tingle is fairly popular in both Japan and Europe. Pretty much the US is the only region that overwelhmingly hates him. Also, when he said "people would want to play them" he explained that he "wanted them to bring something new to the table" and "they would enjoy playing them even if they didn't know who they were." Basically, his main concerns are that the characters are unique and can be given good movesets, not whether or not they are popular which is why we have people like ROB who people wanted to disembowel orphans after seeing for the first time in Brawl.

6. As I explained in another post, Sakurai is a lot like Miyamoto, he usually does whatever he wants and, lucky for us, it usually lines up with what the fans want. With this being said, the most unique characters are usually among the most popular too which, luckily for us, lines up with both parties' wants.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yes, sundayeclipse, like it or not, Tingle shoots Rupees like a machine gun in his Rupeeland game.

Also, it is a bad idea to add a female character for the sake of having more female characters. It is ******** to add a character just because she has breasts and a ******. How are the breasts and the ****** going to help the character fight?

Wario does not need a second or a third playable character for the sake of having more Wario characters. Pretty much all the WarioWare characters has virtually nothing to base their movesets so their movesets would be totally made up from scratch. This is where I think Toad has an advantage over them - at least he has sources like Super Mario Bros. 2 and New Super Mario Bros. Wii to base his moveset on. If we want more representation for the Wario franchise, why not have two stages - one based on WarioWare and one based on Wario Land.

One more thing, the only Assist Trophies I think has the best chances of becoming playable are Starfy, Little Mac, and Tingle. Personally, I'd love for Infantry & Tanks to be playable in SSB4. That would be a surprise addition - playable infantry soldiers led by a Commanding Officer in the tank.

 

[Pieman0920]

A moveset based around the microgames that a character is incharge of can work very well in my opinion, and would be much more original than anything that can be done with Toad, as his SMB2 moves have already been used for Peach, and its not Toad in those new games, but rather just two toads.

 

[TEECO]

I wish there was a whole second page of characters. That second page being NOTHING BUT POKEMON!

 

[sundayseclipse]

holy **** tingle with a gun 0.0.k tingle can be in smash IF he changes out of that stupid costume.

hmm what games should have playable roles in smash

advance wars
custom robo
punch out
starfy
golden sun
sin and punishment

all above get 1 rep maby 2 depending on the important stuff
also what character deserve another rep( besides the ones we know are gona get 1)
FE
pikmin
wario
metroid
retro(hellz yah eggplant wizard =D)
star fox(maby)

 

[Arcadenik]

Yoshi isn't even playable in Yoshi's Island, Yoshi's Story, and Yoshi's Island DS. The playable Yoshis in those games are 8 generic Yoshis (Yoshi himself wasn't born until the end of Yoshi's Island DS). So, why the heck would Yoshi get the moves from the generic Yoshis? Because it made sense for Yoshi to have the same moves the generic Yoshis used in those games. If 8 generic Yoshis can fight like they do in those games, then its not farfetched to see the main Yoshi fight like them in Smash.

Your argument against Toad is that Toad cannot fight because the 2 generic Toads are playable in New Super Mario Bros. Wii. If 2 generic Toads can fight like they do in that game, then its not farfetched to see the main Toad fight like them in Smash. Also, Toad can have the vegetable move like Peach's. That one move alone won't make him a clone of Peach if:

- Toad does not float like Peach does because he never floats in SMB2.
- Toad's other special moves are all different from Peach's (Toads and parasols are part of Peach's background, not Toad's).
- Toad's other special moves are based on NSMBWii (Propeller Suit as a recovery move is a possibility) and/or Mario Kart games (his special items always involve mushrooms).
- Toad can lift and carry characters and barrels/crates with ease like Donkey Kong does in Smash (Toad's superhuman strength is even mentioned in his Brawl trophy).

Your suggestion for using microgames to make up movesets for WarioWare characters would require a lot of baseless creativity. What are they going to do? Water flowers, pick noses, brush teeth, pet dogs? Like I said before, at least Toad has some basis for a made-up moveset.

 

[Pieman0920]

There is a specific green Yoshi who stands out above all others in the Yoshi's Island games, and given the series that Yoshi is represented by is the Yoshi series instead of the Mario series, the Yoshi that is playable in these games is likely that one. Further evidence of that is that Baby Mario/Baby Peach are listed as Yoshi serie characters. Thus the Yoshi you're thinking of isn't even in Brawl.

And one of the flaws with your arguments about the two generic multi-colored Toads fighting in the new game is that you don't know the extent of how they fight in these new games, as well as you not knowing if these two Toads are actually going to become characters themselves. There are about two new suits to my understanding, and that quite frankly isn't worth basing a moveset over. And as I said before, the Toads could be distinct characters themselves, and thus shouldn't have their moves stolen by Toad, aka a character who has lacked his individuality a long time ago.

And a creative fighter is much more likely than a generic moveset for a generic character. It doesn't take all too much effort either, siince all you need to do is translate the microgames into combat moves, which comes much easier than you think. In addition in certain cases there are characters who are given pottential attacks in their cutscenes, but that not something that happens for every character.

EDIT: Also Sundayseclipse, the Pikmin series by absolutly no means deserves a second character.

 

[ToddCam]

Ah, but Ness and Lucas have abilities taken from their allies. It makes a lot more sense for Toad to have abilities taken from other Toads than that.

 

[Pieman0920]

While that is true, that Toad is still irrelivant for the most part, as shown by the fact that he isn't one of those two toads. In fact outside of sports tites, has "the" Toad actually shown up in any other games than SMB2? If anything its more likely that these new toads get in rather than the old generic one from those games of yore. (And of course there's the fact that there are better Mario representatives to choose from anyways)

 

[ToddCam]

Well, it's really a question of how does one know who is "the" Toad? I tend to go with, red spots on white cap, red vest and blue shorts makes it Toad. I think that means SMB3, and Melee and Brawl, at least, and I believe Wario's Woods. Of course, then you do have occasions where there are multiple copies of this Toad, as in Paper Mario or Mario 64, so it gets muddled.

I think the fact is, that Toad, like Yoshi, is an individual and a race, and the creators equate them.

And what I mean by this is, if the Toads as a race AND the individual combined deserve a spot on the roster, then Toad the individual will get that spot. If not, then no.

While I love Toad (probably partially because of that god-awful cartoon), I doubt Toad will ever make it, because, while he does have "powers" and even ways that he/they could get a moveset, there just isn't the interest in scraping it together.

 

[KingK.Rool]

A moveset based around the microgames that a character is incharge of can work very well in my opinion, and would be much more original than anything that can be done with Toad, as his SMB2 moves have already been used for Peach, and its not Toad in those new games, but rather just two toads.

Toad has plenty of potential. Mushroom-based attacks (maybe an attack that causes him to grow or shrink at random?), a variety of Mario series props, plus a series of headbutts and wacky acrobatic tricks. Anyone has potential for an original moveset, and I'm not convinced that drawing upon microgames would work. It'd come off as incredibly random and not at all fitting to the character at hand.

For reference, Wario doesn't have any microgame-based attacks, at all.

I agree that Toad is both an individual and a race, which probably leads to the whole argument against him in and of itself. There is THE Toad, he's in all the sports games and party games. I don't see why he can't also draw upon those for an interesting moveset.

At the least, he should get in over a second Warioware rep or some nauseating pick like Waluigi.

 

[Pieman0920]

Toad has plenty of potential. Mushroom-based attacks (maybe an attack that causes him to grow or shrink at random?), a variety of Mario series props, plus a series of headbutts and wacky acrobatic tricks. Anyone has potential for an original moveset, and I'm not convinced that drawing upon microgames would work. It'd come off as incredibly random and not at all fitting to the character at hand.

Of course they'd be random, since thats what the microgames are. I also don't see why it wouldn't be fitting to them, given their status in the games.

For reference, Wario doesn't have any microgame-based attacks, at all.

Which makes it more original for the WW character.

I agree that Toad is both an individual and a race, which probably leads to the whole argument against him in and of itself. There is THE Toad, he's in all the sports games and party games. I don't see why he can't also draw upon those for an interesting moveset.

At the least, he should get in over a second Warioware rep or some nauseating pick like Waluigi.

The sports and party games are better represented by Waluigi actually, as he is born from them, and shows up more in them as his own character. That still doesn't make Waluigi a good choice by any means, but if anyone gets a Mario sports moveset, its him.

Still as the WW series is very popular at this time, in combination with the fact that there are more relevant Mario characters that should get in before Toad, there really should be a second Wario character before Toad becomes playable.

 

[justaway12]

Movesets shouldn't keep Toad back, if they were a problem the Ice climbers, R.O.B, Capt. Falcon etc. wouldn't be in.

The sports and party games are better represented by Waluigi actually, as he is born from them, and shows up more in them as his own character. That still doesn't make Waluigi a good choice by any means, but if anyone gets a Mario sports moveset, its him.

The reason Waluigi isn't added is because he isn't important to the Marioverse not because his moveset would be represented by Mario sports/party games.

Also people have made Toad movesets before.

That being said I do belive that there are more deserving characters than Toad e.g. Bowser jr.

 

[UncleSam]

toad should be an item like Mr. saturn
...ya' know, use him as a meat sheild...

 

[ScoobyCafe]

As much as I like Tingle (and how I think your right on how recognizable he'd be), I don't think he'll ever be in Smash. I say this because Sakurai adds character which make people want to play the game. Tingle would be the opposite, it would deter people from the game. As awesome as he is, people don't like him.

Honestly (though you could be right), I think people will buy SSB4 regardless of Tingle appearing or not. How many people wouldn't buy the game because of one characters inclusion? Certainly not enough to influence sales numbers, right? He's just one character out of many, people don't have to play with him. lol

I think it might. There is a lot of potential there (including for Female characters hmm). My idea for Mona was for her to work like Gen from Street Fighter. He down B would change her fighting style.

Awesome. She could also have a lot of potential alt. costumes to choose from. =]

And Jimmy T. would be all kinds of cool, too. With those disco moves and style, he'd be like... the Johnny Bravo/Bobobo of Smash Bros. =D

Yeah, that could be cool. But, who would the big bosses be?

I agree with Pieman0920, Kraid is probably the best choice. Maybe, I guess Eggman or Dr. Wily in some sort of robot could work. I can't think of any good ones, at the moment.

Wario does not need a second or a third playable character for the sake of having more Wario characters. Pretty much all the WarioWare characters has virtually nothing to base their movesets so their movesets would be totally made up from scratch. This is where I think Toad has an advantage over them - at least he has sources like Super Mario Bros. 2 and New Super Mario Bros. Wii to base his moveset on. If we want more representation for the Wario franchise, why not have two stages - one based on WarioWare and one based on Wario Land.

One more thing, the only Assist Trophies I think has the best chances of becoming playable are Starfy, Little Mac, and Tingle. Personally, I'd love for Infantry & Tanks to be playable in SSB4. That would be a surprise addition - playable infantry soldiers led by a Commanding Officer in the tank.

WarioWare's massive popularity and speedy growth warrants the franchise a second rep. I'd even say it can manage a third rep given aforementioned reasons. SmashChu and Pieman0920 sort of highlighted what the movesets could be based on.

And believe it or not, but Toad has more disadvantages than advantages. Pieman0920 stated a couple reasons why this is true.

As for Wario Land representation, I can see Captain Syrup as a boss or mini-boss in SSB4s' adventure mode. WarioWare could get one new stage, one which could encompass Club Sugar and Mona Pizza―in other words, Diamond City. Still, I do see the franchise getting another character.

Oh, and I think Saki and Andy has a good chance of becoming playable, too. (Andy who'd command the Infantry & Tanks, much like Carl in BlazBlue).

 

[KingK.Rool]

THE MOVESETS OF MYM
A DEFINITIVE ROSTER: HISTORY AND QUALITY​

-- MYM 1.0 --​

Furret / Fawriel​

MYM 1 was marked by a very relaxed atmosphere. There was little to no sense of competition. Fawriel, however, stood out from the crowd with his simple, readable, fun movesets, like this one. He was also, of course, MYM's founder, and formulated the Infinite Sakurai Theorem. He left MYM in the hands of another and has never visited it since.

~~ MYM 2.0 ~~​

Aqua Teen Hunger Force / El Duderino​

MYM 2 was much like the first MYM, except that it was the first one that started to have what you'd call "regulars". Its champion set was Paper Mario, but that set is largely forgettable and won on the basis of character bias; this set for an obscure group of characters placed second. Note the great improvement this set is over Furret, especially in terms of detail. El Duderino himself disappeared soon after the end of MYM 2.0.

(( MYM 3.0 ))​

Dracula / Chief Mendez​

Dracula is probably the most famous and influential moveset in the history of MYM. It was a giant leap forward for its creator, Mendez, who was already becoming a legend based off of his intelligent posting, creative movesets, and brilliant set organization. Dracula's creativity was unsurpassed at the time he was posted. He singlehandedly caused the rest of MYM to take heed and step up their games, and marked the point that "just for fun" became a real contest. Dracula himself is still a shining beacon of simplicity working out and visual appeal.

Cervantes / MasterWarlord​

Warlord, like Mendez, was a rising star. He replied to Dracula with a string of Soul Calibur movesets that oozed creativity and were heavy on special mechanics, on detail, and on extras. The last of these was Cervantes. He was immediately raised up on a pedestal, right next to Dracula, and seemed the obvious runner-up.

Donna / Junahu​

Junahu's Donna was the first set that proved that even an original character - or OC - had the potential to rake in a lot of votes. He also showed that you didn't have to be a big name in MYM to place highly, as Donna's 4th place medal showed. Junahu posted fairly little and was more or less an unknown when he posted her. Today, of course, he's one of the most lauded MYMers around.

The Headless Horseman / KingK.Rool​

The Headless Horseman was the last moveset posted in MYM 3.0, and was posted on the last day, which just happened to be Halloween. This move made the moveset's reception all the greater, and it placed 3rd on the back of its organization, creativity, and intriguing mechanic. K.Rool had taken inspiration from Mendez and Warlord, and emphasized readability and overall playstyle in his later MYM 3.0 movesets.

«« MYM 4 »»​

Chef Kawasaki / KingK.Rool​

Kawasaki placed first in MYM 4 on the basis of a massive hype campaign. He also featured a unique, interactive mechanic, light, approachable organization, and nary a generic attack to be found. In recent times, some MYMers look back at him less than fondly, but he stood out then and now as a more digestable moveset in an overdetailed period.

Mr Shine and Mr Bright / SirKibble​

Kibble had been an MYMing stalwart since MYM 2.0, but it wasn't until MYM 4 that he stepped up his game and proved that he was one of the best. He quickly became one of the most popular and acclaimed moveset makers, as, quite apart from his great creativity and really easy reading style, he had always been one of the most likable regulars. The idea of him making excellent sets like this - a two-in-one character that just grips you and won't let go - was very appealing to the average MYMer.

Simirror / agidius​

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Simirror's one of those sets that you can read any number of times and still find something new each time. He was incredibly true to his Kirby-based character, had the kind of playstyle that could fit into an actual Smash game without missing a beat, and was the first moveset based around defensive magic. This was a milestone in organization, creativity, and so much else, and cemented agidius as one of the MYMers who was changing with the times.

Mach Rider / Chief Mendez​

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Mendez was ever present, now as an authority figure, and he soon came out with this brilliant moveset. Sadly, his brilliant organization is no longer all there; the moveset has fallen into disrepair since Mendez's departure. The breathtaking mechanic, however, implementing the character's motorcycle directly into his moveset, is still there and just as compelling as ever.

Super Star Helpers / SirKibble​

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Along with Shine and Bright, this was Kibble's other major offering to his favorite series. This mighty four-character moveset had been in the works for a good two months, and its arrival did not disappoint, as it proved to have four entirely fascinating characters, each with styles that would be utterly unique, from the bomb-heavy Poppy Bro to the grab-obsessed Bugsy. This was the set that first cemented Kibble as a great moveset maker, although it wouldn't place as highly as Shine and Bright (see above).

Black Doom / Hyper_Ridley​

Another rising presence in the MYM world, Hyper_Ridley turned in a batch of excellent movesets in MYM 3.0 but never really took off until MYM 4. Black Doom was his opus, an eclectic character based around making your own playstyle through a batch of attacks that did things nobody else had ever thought of. The number of interactions HR had hidden between the lines was unparallelled at the time, and is a trademark that continued in his later sets.

Shanoa / MarthTrinity​

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Shanoa was the breakthrough set from one of the most reliable and stalwart MYMers, MarthTrinity. Active since MYM 2, it took him a while to get the recognition he deserves, and he is still brutally underrated to this day for his unobtrusive, less-than-flashy movesets. However, his work has never been anything short of excellent, and most especially in Shanoa, whose greatest claim to fame was the best yet implementation of an attack with effects that vary depending on the enemy character. Shanoa remains a great read and an immersion into the mind of its creator.

Cortez / Hyper_Ridley and goldwyvern​

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HR's other excellent set of the contest, along with Black Doom, was the first truly effective and successful "joint set", a moveset that resulted from the collaboration of multiple moveset makers. When he teamed up with a relatively maligned MYMer, they crafted this monstrosity, who boasts a versatile, clever playstyle, a brilliantly fitting mechanic, and HR's trademark clinical writing style.

Undead Hero / dancingfrogman​

Undead Hero has a rather heavy writing style, as with all of dancingfrogman's sets. Here was an MYMer who had been popular and successful since MYM 2, but whose overdetail only got worse with the rest of the movesets in MYM 4, resulting in the majority of MYMers overlooking his brilliantly creative ideas that never quite seemed too outrageous to work. Undead Hero was - and is still often considered - his best work, despite being for such an obscure character. In fact, MYM 4 can be considered the golden age of DFM, as overdetailed sets were quite the norm and so his creativity was more noticed in general.

Kefka / Spadefox​

Kefka is laden with Final Fantasy references, is positively bubbling with creativity, and perfectly captures the spirit of a manic clown. Spadefox brought to him his simple - but obscenely effective - organization and succinct descriptions; he, like frogman, had been a faithful MYMer who broke through for the first time in MYM 4. Kefka was only one in a long chain of powerful entries, and served as a welcome respite to the era of overdetail.

Pleinair / Emergency​

Pleinair and her creator represent an MYMing success story. The relatively unknown emergency slipped onto the scene with this one, rather slight and unobtrusive moveset, and his hard work was immediately recognized, despite his not being one of the bigger names in the thread. Pleinair would go on to place in the Top 20, and remains a beautifully organized moveset that marries simplicity to creativity. Truly a charming read, and it goes to show how almost anyone can "go the distance".

Advance Army / SirKibble​

As the thread he had started entered its last days, Kibble took everyone by surprise with this powerhouse moveset with the amazing playstyle and the patented readability. With it, he proved once and for all that he had become one of the "Big 3", as they were not-so-affectionately dubbed by those that cried bias - MasterWarlord, KingK.Rool, and SirKibble.

Deoxys / Chief Mendez​

​

By the end of MYM 4, Mendez had begun to lose interest in Make Your Move. This set, posted around the halfway mark, was one he had been prodded into posting, as he had never been completely satisfied with it; however, its organization, friendly level of detail, and simplistic but interesting concepts made for an easy, inviting read, and it proved just as popular as his earlier movesets. Mendez's departure is still remembered as one of the greatest losses MYM has suffered; his friendly, intelligent demeanour and air of easy authority have never quite been matched since.

[[ MYM 5 ]]​

Acid Seaforce / Hyper_Ridley and Spadefox​

The ultimate joint set between two of the closest friends in MYM, Acid Seaforce had it all, quite simply; a beautiful do-it-yourself playstyle, individual moves that were oozing uniqueness, a charming organization, perfect balance, and a writing style that simply begged to be read. It ended up narrowly winning the whole contest. It was only one of HR's numerous and indelible contributions to MYM 5, but Spadefox left not long after it, after a string of nasty arguments that resulted in him simply throwing up his arms and walking away.

Arthas / Chris Lionheart​

After a tumultuous relationship with MYM that involved getting appointed and later booted from the authority figures, Chris redeemed himself with a moveset that took everyone by surprise. Arthas was the first "summons" character, and his mechanic was so simple - but so interesting - that Arthas rode the wave all the way to the Top 50, much later. The fact that he didn't quite make Top 10 is an injustice that can only be explained by how early he was posted. Chris would make many other excellent MYM 5 movesets, and handily regained his spot among the authorities.

Lemmy Koopa / Hyper_Ridley​

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HR's most popular moveset of the contest after Acid Seaforce (see above), this trap-based character revolves around turning the stage into a circus sideshow, and a real nightmare for any foe. His creativity and significance can't be overstated; he was one of the movesets that prodded forth the playstyle movement (see Alphonse).

Ryuk / MasterWarlord​

MasterWarlord, who turned in a number of fascinating movesets in MYM 4 - none of which stood out from the others in any significant way - and a number more in early MYM 5, eventually came out with this beast, whose unique concept and truth to the source material is almost unparallelled. This moveset embodies a rapidly emerging trend in movesets; the focus on an overall feel, a flow to the character's attacks, over the creativity of individual attacks. This "playstyle movement" would permanently change the way movesets were made and evaluated, and rather like the detail movement of late MYM 3.0 and MYM 4, was spearheaded by Warlord.

Sakurai / TheSundanceKid​

Sakurai is as random as movesets get, spitting in the face of the playstyle movement and getting away with it. His creator, Sundance, a well-liked MYMer regularly voted as Funniest Poster, pulled out every trick in his bag of tricks for a moveset that is more "Meme Man" than Masahiro Sakurai himself. This one deserves special recognition, if only for being as enjoyable an experience as any other moveset ever made.

Metal Man / Plorf​

Along with Lemmy Koopa (see above) and The Kid (from agidius), Metal Man is often considered one of the old trap classics. Plorf's emphasis on detail and extras sets him apart from the more streamlined mood of MYM 5, but his truth to the subject matter and developped playstyle kept him from being coined a relic. A relatively new addition to MYM, he proved a famous procrastinator; SirKibble agreed to work on a joint set with him just to get him to start working and thinking. The result was Heat Man, and indeed, Metal Man followed soon after.

Alphonse/ MasterWarlord​

Soon after Ryuk, Warlord posted his most popular moveset yet, the mighty Alphonse. With myriad move interactions and the definitive playstyle, he was an easy favorite to win the whole contest, but ultimately placed third, marking Warlord's worst showing in an MYM yet, as he had placed second in both MYM 3.0 and 4 - however, he lost here by a single vote in the tight top 10, making this in point of fact the closest he has ever come to victory. Al remains one of his best works and one of the most stimulating movesets ever made.

Miracle Matter / KingK.Rool​

After his win in MYM 4, K.Rool almost rendered Kawasaki obsolete with several lauded movesets, the most popular of which was Miracle Matter, who had an easily imagined (if difficultly put into use) mechanic that involved the use of all his forms, just as in the eponymous boss battle. Each form - including a fireball, an ice cube, and a rock - has an unusual and creative playstyle.

Hypno / Tanookie​

Tanookie emerged as one of the strongest newcomers of MYM 4 and quickly secured a place among the leadership for his interesting and varied Castlevania movesets. Hypno proved one of his few MYM 5 movesets, but was acclaimed for his relative simplicity while still maintaining a distinct and clear playstyle. He also boasts brilliant, appealing organization.

Raiden / Smash Daddy​

Smash Daddy had been sporadically present, commenting and reading movesets, since MYM 3.0, but he had only posted one set in each contest, a trend which continued with Raiden, who was posted as MYM 5 was drawing a close. He took everybody aback by showing off a monumental amount of improvement, and Raiden was unique in his off-the-wall organization, his professional writing style, his heavy, exhaustive detail, and his choose-your-weapon playstyle. He ended up tying with Acid Seaforce for the champion's crown, but was then narrowly chosen to place second by the Sins (the authorities at the time).

Cutesy Beau / Junahu​

Junahu gave his finest outing since Donna and proved that he wasn't going anywhere any time soon when he surprised everyone with this OC. All agree that she has wonderful organization - a hallmark of Junahu's work - but after that, opinions are divided. Cutesy has attracted a devoted cult following based on her flowing playstyle, unique conception, and choice to emphasize a smooth implementation into Smash over complex standards. Definitely worth a read, if only to see what side you stand on.

Count Cannoli / KingK.Rool​

As in MYM 3.0 with The Headless Horseman, KingK.Rool slipped in the last moveset of the contest, but this one came with no fanfare and little celebration. However, in retrospect, it's regarded by many as one of K.Rool's best, implementing a thieving mechanic and showing off light detail, powerful organization, and a strong emphasis on playstyle. It's no milestone, but its popularity and high place in the Top 50, while other movesets were lost in the last-day shuffle, stands testament to its effectiveness.

MYM Man / SirKibble​

The end of MYM 5 signalled another major loss, as SirKibble, legend since MYM 2.0, leader of MYM 4, friend and advisor to all, was forced to leave MYM - and all computer access - for a period of two years. MYM Man, his final solitary moveset, was his testament to the community, and incorporated many of the memes and trends of MYM in ingenious attacks. Although the overall quality of Kibble's movesets in MYM 5 was not quite up to par with his golden age in MYM 4, he remained one of the Big 3 right up until his departure.

|| MYM 6 ||​

Hades / BKupa666​

Kupa had been putting in incredibly solid works ever since MYM 2, his notorious tendancies to overcomplicate and follow in the footsteps of his mentor MasterWarlord growing ever more famous, but it wasn't until this remake of an MYM 4 moveset that he finally broke through as one of the major MYMers. Hades has a mechanic that feels tacked-on but everything else about him is superb, from his balance right down to his organizational quirks.

Vaati / SkylerOcon​

Vaati is a moveset with incredible organization above all else - this is something SkylerOcon, the only mod to ever become a regular in MYM (although he technically was an MYMer first and a mod second), has always emphasized in his movesets. Vaati is also distinctive in how he shows off Ocon's philosophy: less is more and the best playstyles are those that could be slipped right into Brawl without skipping a beat.

Sloth / MasterWarlord​

With Sloth, Warlord showed just how much he intended to push playstyle. Almost every attack in Sloth's moveset is specifically meant to interact with at least one other attack, making a brilliant jigsaw puzzle and a stimulating thought experience. Individual move creativity has finally been cast aside in favor of the bigger picture, and Warlord seems prepared to push MYM forcefully onto a whole new level of greatness.

 

[Arcadenik]

Pieman, your logic is ********. You say Toad should not steal other Toads' moves but it is not even an issue in Smash. We already have Ness and Lucas who use moves that belonged to Paula and Kumatora. We have Zelda who used magic that belonged to Link in OOT. At least Toad would use moves the other Toads used.

You keep saying that giving microgame-based movesets to WarioWare characters would be more original than giving actual moves Toad (as an individual and as a species) used in his many playable roles. So why aren't you posting special moves for these WarioWare characters?

 

[Pieman0920]

I don't see how a microgame with, say, plucking a carrot can be translated into a cool attack for Jimmy T. Seeing him randomly pluck a carrot for his Down Tilt would be bizarre and make no sense, thematically, if you know what I mean.

I don't see why. None of the characters really make any sense in the first place, all things said. For instance in the Wii game, wasn't Jimmy T dancing around with cats and dogs despite never having a real connection to them before?

True enough, I suppose. Or maybe it's just a hint that Sakurai doesn't plan on drawing on microgames at all.

Well for one, Wario has established moves of his own, seeing as the WW series isn't his only series. For second, the Wario Bite, as well as Bike could be considered as derived from the microgames, as there are micro games where he does both things.

Toad was in sports and party games before Waluigi was created. Peach wasn't born from them either, but she still uses a golf club and a tennis racket in her moveset.

And as to Warioware's popularity... well, I'm not convinced. Then again, I'm really just playing devil's advocate, since I'd welcome a second WW character.

Granted Peach uses abilities from them, but they aren't what she's based around, like Waluigi is. All I'm saying is that a Mario character who's moveset was heavily based on sports would much more likely be Waluigi, since he originated from the series and has maintained a main role in the games, unlike Toad who is becoming less featured in them.

If you would welcome it, then what's the problem here? Toad inclusion or lack of inclusion has no real effect on a new Wario character. Heck, Waluigi isn't a Wario character either.

 

[SmashChu]

@ Fatmanonice: I'll reply to your thing sometime in the future. I'm not in the mood to get into an argument today (namely becuase I have to go to work tonight). I'll respond to that a little later.

Also, on Toad, my idea for a moveset for him was to have it be item based. Maybe he could pull out different types of items with his attacks or one of his attacks has him throwing Mario items like hammers, shells, ect.

Honestly (though you could be right), I think people will buy SSB4 regardless of Tingle appearing or not. How many people wouldn't buy the game because of one characters inclusion? Certainly not enough to influence sales numbers, right? He's just one character out of many, people don't have to play with him. lol

It's not so much a matter of "will they buy this game or not," but a matter of how consumers will respond to the series overall.

In any industry, the goal needs to be to keep your consumers happy. The happier you are, then happier you are. All business strategies work with this idea in mind. The problem is if you add a character people don't like, they'll be less happy with the game, and could become less happy with the franchise. If a character makes people unhappy, then this could be problematic later as this lowers their overall happiness with the product. It's good for Sakurai to focus on how consumers enjoy the product as it will keep them happy consumers and be willing to buy more of the product.

So, it's not so much that Tingle will make people not buy the game. It's it will lower their current happiness with the product, the first step from them to become non-consumers.

Awesome. She could also have a lot of potential alt. costumes to choose from. =]

My idea was never really focused on alt costumes (although she changes her clothes every game), but to work that changing her clothes changes her fighting style. Just an interesting way to make her unique.

And Jimmy T. would be all kinds of cool, too. With those disco moves and style, he'd be like... the Johnny Bravo/Bobobo of Smash Bros. =D

He'd be fun. Actually, my idea for him was to have him as an assist trophy and that when he comes out, he'd start making your opponents dance.

I agree with Pieman0920, Kraid is probably the best choice. Maybe, I guess Eggman or Dr. Wily in some sort of robot could work. I can't think of any good ones, at the moment.

I could see Kraid. Eggman and Wily are really dependent on if Megaman and Sonic will even be in the next one.