[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SmashChu]

One more thing, the only Assist Trophies I think has the best chances of becoming playable are Starfy, Little Mac, and Tingle. Personally, I'd love for Infantry & Tanks to be playable in SSB4. That would be a surprise addition - playable infantry soldiers led by a Commanding Officer in the tank.

What about Issac, Saki, Waluigi, Samurai Gohor or Lyn?

 

[Big-Cat]

Once more, I have to say this. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THE WORD REP. Super Smash Bros. isn't a Nintendo Congress. The sales and amount of games a series has does not indicate how many characters that series will have (reps). Otherwise, Mario and Pokemon would have like ten characters with this logic. If representation should be anywhere, it should be in the movesets, not the amount of characters per series.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Movesets shouldn't keep Toad back, if they were a problem the Ice climbers, R.O.B, Capt. Falcon etc. wouldn't be in.



The reason Waluigi isn't added is because he isn't important to the Marioverse not because his moveset would be represented by Mario sports/party games.

Also people have made Toad movesets before.

That being said I do belive that there are more deserving characters than Toad e.g. Bowser jr.

Before I start, I'd like to ask do you know someone named ~Peachy~? I get the feeling that you two would get along very well.

Regarding what you said, the three characters you mentioned are not the same as Toad. For starters, they are the stars of their own franchises. Second, those three characters were only in a few games before their Smash priemires so it's understandable that they were "clean slates." Toad, on the other hand, is actually the second most reoccuring Mario character aside from Mario himself (yes, he's actually been in more games than Bowser, Luigi, and even Peach) and still has barely anything original to work with. For a character that's been in close to 100 games, that's definately not a good thing. Third, the past has shown that clean slate characters have never been part of another existing frachise but rather come in on their own like in the case of the Ice Climbers and ROB.

It's not really a matter of whether or not a moveset could be made for the character, it's a matter of whether or not the character genuinelly bring something noteworthy to Smash. Heck I could make a moveset for Epona (Link's horse) but that doesn't mean that making the character from the ground up would be worth it and hold the player's interest while, at the same time, having characteristics that say there's nothing wrong with this character being here.

@ Smashchu:

Only if you want to. If you're too busy and just want to drop it for now, that's fine, we'll just pick it up again if the conversation ever resurfaces.

 

[Heartz♥]

After that link, I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

[ToddCam]

I see no problem with random Microgame activities being a way to get a moveset for a WarioWare character. G&W has a bunch of random moves. Or is there something sensible about turtles, hardhats, parachutes, fishbowls, buckets of oil, torches, chairs, etc?

SmashChu, re: Tingle. The fact is, that there is no way Nintendo can add characters to the game without pissing someone off. How many people are STILL complaining about Jigglypuff? Sure, there are people who wouldn't like Tingle in SSB4, but if Nintendo kowtowed to anyone who didn't like a specific character, there wouldn't be a roster at all. And besides, I think some of those deadset against him would get over it. When I found out the roster for Brawl, I was pissed that Wolf was included but not Krystal. And while I still want her in Smash, I actually really like playing as Wolf. The risks are minimal for Nintendo. The only thing that they should take no risks with is something which would really inflame people, like adding Hitler or something.

 

[lordvaati]

In fact outside of sports tites, has "the" Toad actually shown up in any other games than SMB2?

he was the protagonist of wario's woods.

I thought about it for a while, and shockingly, Toad Might actually have a chance to be in.true, he is part of Peach's attacks, but Servbot was playable in Marvel vs. Capcom 2 and it was part of Tron Bonne's attacks.

 

[justaway12]

Before I start, I'd like to ask do you know someone named ~Peachy~? I get the feeling that you two would get along very well.

Everyone knows ~Peachy~, but I have never had the pleasure to meet her

Regarding what you said, the three characters you mentioned are not the same as Toad. For starters, they are the stars of their own franchises. Second, those three characters were only in a few games before their Smash priemires so it's understandable that they were "clean slates." Toad, on the other hand, is actually the second most reoccuring Mario character aside from Mario himself (yes, he's actually been in more games than Bowser, Luigi, and even Peach) and still has barely anything original to work with. For a character that's been in close to 100 games, that's definately not a good thing. Third, the past has shown that clean slate characters have never been part of another existing frachise but rather come in on their own like in the case of the Ice Climbers and ROB.

I was just comparing them becuase it seemed like Piemans only reason that Toad shouldn't appear is because they couldn't think of a moveset, I also don't think he should appear but not because of the moveset, I know I shouldn't compare them but I am just saying a moveset isn't the only thing about smash.

It's not really a matter of whether or not a moveset could be made for the character, it's a matter of whether or not the character genuinelly bring something noteworthy to Smash. Heck I could make a moveset for Epona (Link's horse) but that doesn't mean that making the character from the ground up would be worth it and hold the player's interest while, at the same time, having characteristics that say there's nothing wrong with this character being here.

That is why I said at the end there are more deserving characters, but, as I said before movesets should not be apart of the argument. That is what I meant not that he sould appear. Sometimes I don't get what people say that well so correct if I didn't get what you meant.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

It's not so much a matter of "will they buy this game or not," but a matter of how consumers will respond to the series overall.

*Industry snippet*

So, it's not so much that Tingle will make people not buy the game. It's it will lower their current happiness with the product, the first step from them to become non-consumers.

ToddCam pretty much nailed it. Much of my sentiments are in his statement.

My idea was never really focused on alt costumes (although she changes her clothes every game), but to work that changing her clothes changes her fighting style. Just an interesting way to make her unique.

I know what you were saying, and yeah, it's pretty awesome. I'm just saying that she also has a plethora of potential alt. costumes to choose from, none of which would be the clothes she changes to. (I guessing she'd change into her Pizza deliver outfit, Bassist outfit, and Cheerleader outfit)

He'd be fun. Actually, my idea for him was to have him as an assist trophy and that when he comes out, he'd start making your opponents dance.

I could see him working as an assist trophy, but I'd much rather have him as a playable character. He just oozes potential, in my opinion.

I could see Kraid. Eggman and Wily are really dependent on if Megaman and Sonic will even be in the next one.

I suppose so. I just hope they don't remove Sonic, that would be pretty dumb after seeing the outcry for other characters who weren't present in Brawl (Mewtwo).

I see no problem with random Microgame activities being a way to get a moveset for a WarioWare character. G&W has a bunch of random moves. Or is there something sensible about turtles, hardhats, parachutes, fishbowls, buckets of oil, torches, chairs, etc?

I actually think that their [Mona and Jimmy T] movesets practically write themselves. Jimmy T. is a dancer—more specifically, he's a disco-dancing nut. Why not give him disco dance moves for his standard and smash attacks. Mona works at many establishments in Diamond City. She does things like deliver pizza, being a bassist of a rock band, cheerleading, etc. Her moveset could be based around these things. She also have a couple pets who can do a couple things, like her blue elephant which shoot sludge and soccer balls from its trunk. etc. etc.

But anyway, that aside, do you guys think that in SSB4s' adventure mode, the characters who can speak in their native series, like Fox, Snake, and so forth, should talk via subtitles? The totally mute, textless cut-scenes in SSBB reminded me of Kirby 64, which is a no-no for me. It's part of the reason why I dub SSE the Kirby Super-space Emissary.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I see no problem with random Microgame activities being a way to get a moveset for a WarioWare character. G&W has a bunch of random moves. Or is there something sensible about turtles, hardhats, parachutes, fishbowls, buckets of oil, torches, chairs, etc?

Well, it does make sense in how every single one of his moves is based on a Game and Watch game. I think it would be much harder to do this with the Wario Ware characters though.

 

[Heartz♥]

Everyone knows ~Peachy~, but I have never had the pleasure to meet her

Too much like Peachy.

btw, you have to pay royalty fees to use those hearts, Sir or Madam.

lol jk.


I've never even played Professor Layton games so I can't see much of the fuss on this whole bit. I am not even sure I understand it all.

 

[Clownbot]

It's not so much the relation to Professor Layton, moreso the discussion of whether this means they're working on a new Smash.

 

[SmashChu]

@ Smashchu:

Only if you want to. If you're too busy and just want to drop it for now, that's fine, we'll just pick it up again if the conversation ever resurfaces.

Hmmm, maybe. It depends on how I feel later. I have to feel it. If I don't reply in a while, I guess there's your answer

There seems to be some good comments though. I'll respond to some later tonight.

 

[ToddCam]

Well, that's my point. Random moves from the games they appear in.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Well, that's my point. Random moves from the games they appear in.

That's kind of my point too because, with the Game and Watch games, there's like, what, 30 different ones while if you add up all the mini-games in the Wario Ware series there's probably over a 1000.

 

[sundayseclipse]

Once more, I have to say this. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THE WORD REP. Super Smash Bros. isn't a Nintendo Congress. The sales and amount of games a series has does not indicate how many characters that series will have (reps). Otherwise, Mario and Pokemon would have like ten characters with this logic. If representation should be anywhere, it should be in the movesets, not the amount of characters per series.

do you know how much i want to make this my signature

 

[Pieman0920]

Well quite frankly the Pokemon and Mario series do have more characters than the other series, so I would say that sales are a part of it.

As for the WW thing, some characters don't need everything in their moveset based on microgames, but if it came to that, I don't see what's so difficult about it. While not all microgames actually translate out to a viable attack, a good number of them do in some form or another.

 

[pacmansays]

Toad's already in the game guys.....Peach keeps him under her dress

 

[SmashChu]

SmashChu, re: Tingle. The fact is, that there is no way Nintendo can add characters to the game without pissing someone off. How many people are STILL complaining about Jigglypuff? Sure, there are people who wouldn't like Tingle in SSB4, but if Nintendo kowtowed to anyone who didn't like a specific character, there wouldn't be a roster at all. And besides, I think some of those deadset against him would get over it. When I found out the roster for Brawl, I was pissed that Wolf was included but not Krystal. And while I still want her in Smash, I actually really like playing as Wolf. The risks are minimal for Nintendo. The only thing that they should take no risks with is something which would really inflame people, like adding Hitler or something.

Jigglypuff was never hated because people hated Jigglypuff. It's just people wanted other Pokemon playable like Charizard. Also, remember the first game was never meant to leave Japan. Jigglypuff was planned to be removed from Melee, but people liked her from the first game, so he kept her.

The truth you can't please everyone, but you can make bets on sure things. There were people who wanted Wolf and most people would have liked to see him or wouldn't mind his presence. Someone will hate anyone. There is no avoiding that. It's that the decisions Sakurai makes are not to inrage people.

One reason why Sakurai doesn't want to add more Japanese only characters is because the western players will then feel alienated. They wont know who the characters are and will find themselves uninterested in playing as people they don't know or care about. Basically, they can feel detached from the game. This is one thing that must be avoided. Adding Tingle to the game would have the same results.

 

[Pieman0920]

Tingle isn't Japan only though. He's been in several games in the Americas, and his game was put out in Europe. That alone makes him have wider appeal than say Lucas. Seriously, if he wasn't popular enough, he woudn't have had these repeat roles or games, so I don't think that saying that he'd alienate people would be a very good excuse, and those who would be alienated can either not choose to use him, or beat him up.

 

[Big-Cat]

do you know how much i want to make this my signature

Be my guest.

 

[ToddCam]

Besides the fact that, as Pieman said, Tingle isn't Japan only, did anyone really feel alienated by the inclusion of Marth and Roy in Melee, or Lucas is Brawl? Or the inclusion of ATs Sta(r)fy and Saki? In fact, the Fire Emblem characters' appearance there is often credited with the series arrival in the West. I get what you are saying, and some people will be turned off by Tingle. But some will change their minds, and few will actually decline getting SSB4 because of it. It might eventually contribute to Tingle games being brought over. The potential gain is likely much higher than the potential loss.

 

[Starphoenix]

I found this rather interesting, no it is not Smash related. But, it makes me think of some new ideas for Link.
Who wouldn't love a crazy cuccoo barrage Final Smash?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5ePGaDh1iw

 

[Pieman0920]

I'd rather not have that replace his FS since that's fine as it is, though a cucco item like Mr. Saturn could be good. If you pick the thing up, it'd act kind of like a parasol, and if you hit it enough, it summon up more cuccos to fly and attack the player who pushed it over the edge.

 

[Clownbot]

Heh, that probably wouldn't happen, but it'd be pretty cool. Link and Toon Link (if he returns) should get new Final Smashes in my opinion, since Triforce Slash didn't really appear in the LoZ games.

EDIT: @Pieman, the Cucco idea sounds like a pretty good item.

Also, what is that video of? It's... interesting.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Also, what is that video of? It's... interesting.

Card Sagas Wars. A mugen project that's really taking a long time to complete. I appreciate them keeping us updated with new vids, but it's not very smart on their part.

Anyway...

But anyway, that aside, do you guys think that in SSB4s' adventure mode, the characters who can speak in their native series, like Fox, Snake, and so forth, should talk via subtitles? The totally mute, textless cut-scenes in SSBB reminded me of Kirby 64, which is a no-no for me. It's part of the reason why I dub SSE the Kirby Super-space Emissary.

Subtitles: Yay or Nay?

 

[Clownbot]

Nay. It would seem awkward seeing characters speaking constantly, while having others not speak at all.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

How so?

It's done in most Nintendo games.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

How so?

It's done in most Nintendo games.

While Smash Bros. is a complation of most Nintendo games, it isn't most Nintendo games. Its Smash.

I disliked the Subspace Emissary for the fact the it took up a lot of disk space ht could have been used for more content, but you have to admit that the Subspace Emissary itself was pretty awesome. Part of it's charm was that you could mostly grasp the story and the plot, etc. without the characters even speaking. It just made it a bit more interesting.

But, if there is a new Adventure mode in SSB4, it should be like Melee's Adventure mode, but each character has their own unique Adventure Mode, simple cutscenes like the Luigi cutscene and the Team Star Fox cutscene. Still no voice acting.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

While Smash Bros. is a complation of most Nintendo games, it isn't most Nintendo games. Its Smash.

I disliked the Subspace Emissary for the fact the it took up a lot of disk space ht could have been used for more content, but you have to admit that the Subspace Emissary itself was pretty awesome. Part of it's charm was that you could mostly grasp the story and the plot, etc. without the characters even speaking. It just made it a bit more interesting.

But, if there is a new Adventure mode in SSB4, it should be like Melee's Adventure mode, but each character has their own unique Adventure Mode, simple cutscenes like the Luigi cutscene and the Team Star Fox cutscene. Still no voice acting.

Huh? I was always under the impression that Smash was a Nintendo game. I guess I'm wrong?

And I mentioned this in another thread. Yeah, even though I despise SSE, it did what it was designed to do: Expand upon Melee's adventure mode, albeit it did do horribly. It's the right step in the right direction and will only get better moving forward.

Also, I have to disagree with you on making SSB4s' adventure mode like Melee's. That's a step backwards. It should be like SSE in terms of having all the characters go through this big story, with enemies, locations, bosses, and gameplay elements based off of respective Nintendo franchises represented in the game. Not just Kirby.

It should have cameos of characters who didn't make it into the roster, said cameos (like Fawful) influencing the story to an extent and cameos (like Knuckles) sending you on quests when the main story is over, adding replayability. Keep Tabuu and the other stupid crap the **** away.

It should have better implemented co-op. The co-op is SSE sucked badly because of the camera which primarily focuses on player one. Add a split-screen feature, please, so player one can scroll without worrying about player two, whom also wouldn't have to worry about accidental deaths. (Furthermore, this would make searching for items, such as multiple keys, somewhat more entertaining. Imagine spliting up into two directions--you'll find one key whilst your friend search for the other simultaneously.)

Better yet, this should be called "Story Mode" while SSB4s' "Adventure Mode" could be like Melee's.

And lastly, I never propose voice acting. I said subtitles, which is featured in most Nintendo games. I don't see why it can't be added in SSB4.

 

[Pieman0920]

The characters shouldn't have dialogue. It'd just make things even more corny. In addition, a good number of characters simply do not talk. While you could go and say that some of these characters are in worlds where others talk but they don't this is almost always the case of a silent protagonist, where the goal is to make the player identify with the character. The thing though is that there are multiple characters who fit this description in Smash so it'd just seem weird. In SSE what would Mario say to Kirby? Or Link say to Yoshi? Heck, in the case of Mario, it'd just be odd having him talk for a extended period of time.

Anyways I agree that the next Adventure mode should not be like Melee's. While some people still may be annoyed with how SSE ended up, the Adventure mode from Melee was indeed much worse. It was long, reperetive, and there was no way to save you game. Still, the fact that it used locals from the games itself was a positive trait that I think could be implemented in a way.

What I'd propose as a truce between the two modes is if the replacement mode had around 8 levels, each around one of the longer SSE levels, and each based around a one or more franchises, such as the first being Mario (along with Yoshi and possibly DK and Wario) and the next being Zelda (with possibly FE or GS) with the end level being Smash original. Each would have cutscenes and what not for the intro, character introductions, and endings, as well as a boss who originates from the level's theme game. After each level you could save and choose to continue or quit, so you wouldn't need to spend so much time on it like you had to for Adventure mode.

Of course this idea is a work in progress, so there could be some things that I'm not thinking of right now that could be added, or need to be fixed.

 

[Knyaguy]

My only real problem with the single player was the classic mode. I hated the fact that you had to play the *** thing multiple times just to get the transformations. For example two times to get ZZS and Samus, two times to get zelda and the potato and three times just to get Pokemon Trainer and his pokemon!

 

[sundayseclipse]

i say nay.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

@Pieman0920: I'm not saying all characters should talk with text, I'm saying... you know what, forget I even brought this up. It's not worth the headache.

What I'd propose as a truce between the two modes is if the replacement mode had around 8 levels, each around one of the longer SSE levels, and each based around a one or more franchises, such as the first being Mario (along with Yoshi and possibly DK and Wario) and the next being Zelda (with possibly FE or GS) with the end level being Smash original. Each would have cutscenes and what not for the intro, character introductions, and endings, as well as a boss who originates from the level's theme game. After each level you could save and choose to continue or quit, so you wouldn't need to spend so much time on it like you had to for Adventure mode.

Of course this idea is a work in progress, so there could be some things that I'm not thinking of right now that could be added, or need to be fixed.

Help me understand this a bit more. Are you saying that SSB4s' adventure mode should be like:

[Insert Character] adventure mode

Intro
World 1
World 2
.
.
World 8
Boss Battle
Ending?

 

[Pieman0920]

Not exactly. There'd be 8 levels total, with a boss battle at the end of each. While the initial run would have cutscenes and a story of sorts, later runs could simply be used with a team like SSE. Each level, outside of the last one would have a series theme to it, though I never went through my head what each shoud be (Mario, LoZ, Kirby, Pokemon, Metroid, SF, Retro, and SSB? Missing series like DK, Yoshi, FE, Mother, F-Zero and what not would be implamented within other series, like Mother being with Pokemon, and F-Zero being with either SF or Metroid) Perhaps a technical story couldn't work though under such conidtions.

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

I believe SSB4's Adventure Mode should be similar to Brawl's. However, instead of having the characters fight retarted looking monsters in dull generic locations, the adventure mode should take place in different places in the Nintendo universe filled with Nintendo enimies from past games.

 

[babster80]

But, if there is a new Adventure mode in SSB4, it should be like Melee's Adventure mode, but each character has their own unique Adventure Mode, simple cutscenes like the Luigi cutscene and the Team Star Fox cutscene. Still no voice acting.

I dont think that would be good. I never play the Melee adventure mode becuse it has no plot and its kind of boring. Even though I havent done the SE yet, (Curse u, Wii) Ive heard its pretty sweet.

PS: Just Declone Ganon for god sake!

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Not exactly. There'd be 8 levels total, with a boss battle at the end of each. While the initial run would have cutscenes and a story of sorts, later runs could simply be used with a team like SSE. Each level, outside of the last one would have a series theme to it, though I never went through my head what each shoud be (Mario, LoZ, Kirby, Pokemon, Metroid, SF, Retro, and SSB? Missing series like DK, Yoshi, FE, Mother, F-Zero and what not would be implamented within other series, like Mother being with Pokemon, and F-Zero being with either SF or Metroid) Perhaps a technical story couldn't work though under such conidtions.

Sorta sounds like a better Melee adventure mode, to me, which isn't bad at all.

I really think there should be two modes in SSB4: "Story Mode" and "Adventure Mode"

"Story Mode" encompassing all characters as they go through one big story together whilst "Adventure Mode" is more character specific, telling a brief unrelated story of one character. In a way, it's kinda like what you're describing, I think.

PS: Just Declone Ganon for god sake!

I think it's too late for that.

 

[Tacel]

the adventure mode should take place in different places in the Nintendo universe filled with Nintendo enimies from past games.

I agree with that part.

Location's I'd like to see:
Bob-omb Battlefield (Super Mario 64)
Outside of Peach's Castle (Super Mario 64)
Bowser's Castle (Super Mario World 8-4)
Rainbow Road (Mario Kart 64)
Hyrule Field (Ocarina of Time)
Zora's Domain (Ocarina of Time)
Gourmet Race (Kirby Super Star)
Mt. Coronet (Pokémon Diamond/Pearl)

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well, lets see.....

Characters:
Mewtwo
Flint
Ike

Stages:
Hyrule Field
Iron/Newmoon/Fullmoon Island

 

[Clownbot]

Y'know Mushroomy Kingdom? Well, they should have stuff like that in Adventure Mode for characters from side-scrolling games, like Mega Man, Pit (Underworld would be pretty cool), Kirby (Green Greens), things like that.

Lasrs, I sincerely doubt that Flint'll be in SSB4.