[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[sundayseclipse]

Yeah, but luckily we don't have to worry about that. Pikachu has zero chance of being cut... Another thing we can be sure of is Jigglypuff's return (sorry Clownbot... ). It may not be that popular nymore, but it WAS, and I know I'm going to get hated for saying this, but it's one of the "Original 12". Sakurai would keep Jigglypuff in the game for nostalgic worth, and if he wanted to cut it, he would have done it already in Brawl.

yap 0 chances.

as for jigg i say she has 40% chance of being cut same with ness. but maby maby not. i just want jiggily to leave.

origonal 12 rule can go get wasted and be found in a ditch with differnt article of clothing that it dousnt own.

any way. what do you think of a 3rd party boss being put in the advanture mode story line. such as liquid snake or eggman.

 

[Clownbot]

origonal 12 rule can go get wasted and be found in a ditch with differnt article of clothing that it dousnt own.

I don't think you realize how much of a desire I have to sig this.

About the 3rd Party boss thing, I'm rather surprised they didn't use Robotnik and one of his wacky gadgets as a boss. It seemed kind of... obvious.

So, yeah, they should have 3rd Party bosses in SSB4.

 

[sundayseclipse]

I don't think you realize how much of a desire I have to sig this.

About the 3rd Party boss thing, I'm rather surprised they didn't use Robotnik and one of his wacky gadgets as a boss. It seemed kind of... obvious.

So, yeah, they should have 3rd Party bosses in SSB4.

lol thxs

i kinda based its death on how edgar allen poe died

i think sonic was last minuit seeing how he is useless to the storyline.

tabuu- mwhahahaahhahaha
mario and various other ppl- HOLY CRAP
sonic-*boom bam* did i miss anything
nintendo- beep yes you have. whats the point of you beeing here last minuit, fastist thing alive my beep.

lol im random

 

[Fatmanonice]

Catching up on things:

1. The Paper Mario storybook idea is genius.

2. Pokemon already technically has 6 reps. Adding another trainer would give them nine reps assuming that Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, and Jigglypuff stay and that Lucario either stays or is replaced by a recent 5th generation pokemon. Maybe they should consider doing a different trainer to replace the current one.

3. Third party bosses would be cool. For Megaman, I'd personally prefer Bass and Treble than Dr. Wily as bosses.

 

[Pieman0920]

As far as Pokemon go, Jigglypuff is closer to getting the axe than Lucario, so if Lucario does get cut, Jiggs will probably be cut too. The thing is Lucario is there to spread out the generation problem in Pokemon, by actually representing a generation that isn't the first. Thus its more likely he'd stay, so we won't have a even larger gap between the latest and oldest generations.

And as for 3rd party bosses, I don't really like it, since this is supposed to be focused on Nintendo. I will say though that Bass/Treble are less likely than Dr. Wily, as if Brawl is any indication, the bosses have to be larger than the player, and Bass just shouldn't be like that, seeing as he's practically a clone of MM.

 

[Clownbot]

It's not an established rule that bosses have to be huge. I think it'd be cool to see a few that are smaller in size. Come to think of it, having larger bosses is a bit... cliched, don't you think?

I also don't think Bass and Treble would be a clone of Mega Man at all.

 

[Pieman0920]

Perhaps they could have different movesets, but Bass really is almost a clone of MM. You know, like how Blood Falcon is a clone of Captain Falcon but evil.

And its not in Smash's nature of have smaller bosses. If they were small enough, they'd simply be playable characters really. Think of it as cliche all you want, but for the last three games, they are all big, and anything that's small is playable.

 

[kirbywizard]

Catching up on things:

1. The Paper Mario storybook idea is genius.

I think the first Paper Mario game made it look like the whole Paper Mario Universe was in a book. Look at the opening.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I made a roster, a roster that contains a few characters that I feel will be a part of SSB4. These Newcomers are characters that I feel have very likely chances of appearing in SSB4, and it might be a bit small, but there were many characters that I was unsure about. Anyway, here it is...

MARIO
Mario
Peach
Luigi
Bowser
Bowser Jr.

DONKEY KONG
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong

LEGEND OF ZELDA
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Toon Link
Ganondorf
Toon Zelda

METROID
Samus/Zero Suit Samus

YOSHI
Yoshi

KIRBY
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

STARFOX
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal

POKEMON
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
(Next-generation rep)

F-ZERO
Captain Falcon

EARTHBOUND (MOTHER)
Ness
Lucas

FIRE EMBLEM
Marth
Ike
(Next-generation Fire Emblem rep)

WARIOWARE
Wario

PIKMIN
Olimar

RETRO
Ice Climbers (represents Ice Climber)
Pit (represents Kid Icarus)
R.O.B. (represents Gyromite)
Mr. Game & Watch (represents Game & Watch)

NEW SERIES
(New series rep)
(New series rep)
(New series rep)

THIRD PARTY
Sonic
Snake




That was a list of characters that I believe have superior chances of getting into SSB4. The next list is also a list of characters who have good chances, but they're chances aren't as superior as those in the list above. These characters have a vhance of being playable, but because thy are so controversial/debatable, no one can really tell. Thats why the next list is called "POSSIBLE SCRAPPED CHARACTERS"

POSSIBLE SCRAPPED CHARACTERS
(New Metroid rep)
Samurai Goroh
(New EarthBound (MOTHER) rep)
(New series rep)
(New series rep)
Megaman


There you have it. Below is some extra information I compiled from this Roster. You don't have to read it, I just thought I should post it.

ROSTER STATUS

-There is a total of 48 characters in the roster.
-If you added all the characters from the "scrapped" list, there would be 54.
-That said, You can expect anywhere from 47 to 55 characters in SSB4 (give or take one or two).

-There is a total of 9 newcomers in the roster.
-If you add all the characters from the "scrapped" list, there would be 15.
-That said, you can probably expect anywhere from 8 to 16 newcomers in SSB4 (give or take one or two).

SERIES THAT HAVE NO NEW REPS
-Yoshi
-Kirby
-WarioWare
-Pikmin
-All Retro and Third Party series

CHARACTERS PER SERIES
Pokemon ~ 7
Legend of Zelda ~ 6
Mario ~ 5
Starfox ~ 4
Donkey Kong ~ 3
Kirby ~ 3
Fire Emblem ~ 3
Metroid ~ 2 (3)
EarthBound (MOTHER) ~ 2 (3)
F-Zero ~ 1 (2)
Other ~ 1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now you may have stumbled across a few things that need a bit of clarification or explanation. All the explanation you need, you'll find right down here...

-Bowser Jr. is a bit obvious. If there was a new Mario rep in SSB4 (and I'm sure there will be), there is a superior chance that it would be Bowser Jr. Really, no explanation is needed for this one.

-Dixie Kong was one of the candidates for Brawl as well as one of the final cuts. She got pretty far in the roster, only time held her back. Sakurai has shown more interest in her and barely any in K. Rool, so don't argue K. Rool with me. An interesting note about Dixie Kong is that she was also originally planned to be Diddy Kong's partner, the two were going to be some sort of tag team. Apparently Sakurai read it in an e-mail and liked the idea very much. So this could also happen as well.

-Toon Zelda may seem a bit off, but, Sakurai has shown interest in her, considering that she was originally planned for Brawl (along with the mysterious "Toon Shiek"), but was scrapped due to time constraints. Like Dixie Kong, she made it pretty far in the roster. She seems like something Sakurai would pick...

-The (New Metroid rep) is simply there just because the Metroid series is EXTREMELY controversial when it comes to Smash, so I just didn't think it would be right to put any name up there. Nevertheless, I'm sure we'll get one, but honestly, nobody can really tell who it will be, it could be anybody. Since its so debatable, thats why I put it in the "Possible Scrapped" list.

-Krystal is a very popular character in the Starfox series and she is a regular on Team Starfox now. I think her chances are pretty high compared to any other Starfox rep. And no, she will not replace Wolf or anything like that...

-Before arguing with me about Pokemon, I want you to know that there are three different possibilities for the Pokemon series that seem very likely. To see these three possibilities, click the link. You can expect any three of these to pop up in SSB4.

-Samurai Goroh is the only F-Zero character that Sakurai has shown a lot of interest in. He appeared as a cameo in the Melee opening movie and is an Assist Trophy in Brawl. Plus, he is a significant F-Zero character. But, he won't get in before a new Metroid rep does, so h's on the possible scrapped list.

-A (New EarthBound (MOTHER) rep) is actually a lot more likely than you might think. The series, although dead, is still very popular and known by gamers all over the world. But, there are too many candidates to choose from, we can expect anything. Like Samurai Goroh, you won't see this until we get a new Metroid rep.

-Fire Emblem slowly grows more popular as the years go by, and the series is still alive. A new Fire Emblem rep is something you can expect to see, whether it be from a future generation or the newest (current) generation.

-As far as Third Parties are concerned, anything can happen. We don't even know if Sonic or Snake will return, but for now, I'll safely assume that they will. But, Sakurai can't expect to make a new game without another guest appearance. The most likely candidate (this isn't arguable) is obviously Megaman. But we still aren't sure, and we won't be until the game actually comes out (or is announced)

-The new series reps, those don't mean "new" as in a brand new series, I mean new to Smash. Two of those will most likely be retro characters (considering we usually get two), and I'm sure Sakurai will represent at least one new series. It is hard to say who though...


So how accurate do you think this would be? Please don't flame, would like to see some discussion, but no flaming.

 

[Pieman0920]

While I don't like that there's no Ridley, I understand your position for not including him. That being said, my main complaint is that Toon Zelda is in there rather than Tingle. Yes, Sakurai expressed interest in Toon Zelda at the time, but the fact is that times change. As it stands, Tingle is starting to show up in more games, and even has one on the way.

Also, while I know you're somewhat hesitant about it, Little Mac will get in over BF. As I've said before, he's the closest thing at this time there is to a shoe in. Any percieved problems with his moveset are even more bogus than the Ridley size thing, and his position as both a retro character, and a revamped series character nearly confirms him in my eyes.

EDIT: Also given the popularity of the Wario series, I think it'd get a new rep, especially since its selling better than either the DK, Metroid, and the Kirby series in the last two generations.

EDIT x2: Oh, and still don't think that Bowser Jr. will get in before Paper Mario, due to the fact that I would expect a second "version" of Mario before a second "version" of Bowser. In addition, I think it expands the Mario series better to go over their RPG sections, rather than focus again on the main games, which they already do with the four characters they have now.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

1.) While I don't like that there's no Ridley, I understand your position for not including him. That being said, my main complaint is that Toon Zelda is in there rather than Tingle. Yes, Sakurai expressed interest in Toon Zelda at the time, but the fact is that times change. As it stands, Tingle is starting to show up in more games, and even has one on the way.

2.) Also, while I know you're somewhat hesitant about it, Little Mac will get in over BF. As I've said before, he's the closest thing at this time there is to a shoe in. Any percieved problems with his moveset are even more bogus than the Ridley size thing, and his position as both a retro character, and a revamped series character nearly confirms him in my eyes.

3.) EDIT: Also given the popularity of the Wario series, I think it'd get a new rep, especially since its selling better than either the DK, Metroid, and the Kirby series in the last two generations.

1.) Ridley is one of the more deserving characters, but I'm just not so sure what Sakurai or anyone else would think about it. But you understand my problem with the Metroid series, thats good. And I understand you're reasoning with Tingle. I'd say, their chances are equal, but the Zelda series is a bit controversial as well, so its difficult to say...

2.) I am hesitant about it and I still believe Balloon Fighter has better chances. But lets not get into THAT again, that was painful. And I never even mentioned any of the two in my post, I don't know why you would bring them back up... But please, I want to avoid that.

3.) The WarioWare series will not get a new rep until Metroid does, trust me. hey may be gaining popularity, but their significance and popularity isn't enough for another rep just yet. Donkey Kong, Metroid, and Kirby didn't get new reps until Brawl, so don't expect a new WarioWare rep anytime soon.

And trust me, Bowser Jr.'s chances are FAR greater than Paper Mario's, the whole "version" thing is a pretty lame argument. And they don't need to represent the RPG series with a character, but a stage would be great.

 

[Fatmanonice]

And as for 3rd party bosses, I don't really like it, since this is supposed to be focused on Nintendo. I will say though that Bass/Treble are less likely than Dr. Wily, as if Brawl is any indication, the bosses have to be larger than the player, and Bass just shouldn't be like that, seeing as he's practically a clone of MM.

Well, the reason I want third party bosses is because I want the third party characters to be more involved with the story. The SSE was just goofy in that respect. Why the heck was Snake doing recon in the Halberd and, of course, where in God's name did Sonic come from at the last minute? Granted, the SSE's story was like a bad written fan-fic already but the third party characters' part in story made even less sense. The other Nintendo characters at least had some connections to the SSE world while the third party characters just seemed thrown in.

I know that Bass and Treble would be a lot less likely than Dr. Wiley but I don't like the idea of the main boss of the franchise being reduced to a mini-boss. With that being said, I don't like the idea of Robotnik/Eggman being the same way. For the Sonic franchise, I'd much rather see Metal Sonic. Regarding boss size, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the bosses the size of the characters even if they weren't playable. For example, maybe there would be a rouge force with Cosmic Mario, Metal Sonic, and Dark Samus that are causing chaos along with the bigger bosses.

 

[Pieman0920]

1.) Ridley is one of the more deserving characters, but I'm just not so sure what Sakurai or anyone else would think about it. But you understand my problem with the Metroid series, thats good. And I understand you're reasoning with Tingle. I'd say, their chances are equal, but the Zelda series is a bit controversial as well, so its difficult to say...

I don't think its that difficult to say at all. Toon Zelda hasn't really done much...heck, Zelda herself hasn't done much. Tingle on the other hand has had several playable games and what not. While some may dislike him, and thus play down his chances, he is one of the rare reoccuring Zelda characters. Yes Toon Zelda has shown up in her fair share of games as well, but she's still just another version of Zelda and not a brand new character.

2.) I am hesitant about it and I still believe Balloon Fighter has better chances. But lets not get into THAT again, that was painful. And I never even mentioned any of the two in my post, I don't know why you would bring them back up... But please, I want to avoid that.

It was painful to you?

I'm sorry, but it just doesn't make sense to me how you can't see how inevitable Little Mac is. He's one of the few remaining retro characters (and quite frankly the most well known of the remaining bunch) who just got a Wii update to his series. He's a fighter, he's both retro and topical, and he's well known. I really don't know how he can't get any more obvious unless they start churning out sequles inbetween now and the next Smash.

3.) The WarioWare series will not get a new rep until Metroid does, trust me. hey may be gaining popularity, but their significance and popularity isn't enough for another rep just yet. Donkey Kong, Metroid, and Kirby didn't get new reps until Brawl, so don't expect a new WarioWare rep anytime soon.

The Mother series got a second rep before Metroid, the SF series got a third rep before Metroid, and so on. I really don't think the WW series (or really any other series) depends on Metroid's future status, but rather its own status and pottential for unique characters. As the WW series popularity is high, and a microgame themed character from it can be very unique, I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed to get a second rep, while less popular series get their third or fourth.

And trust me, Bowser Jr.'s chances are FAR greater than Paper Mario's, the whole "version" thing is a pretty lame argument. And they don't need to represent the RPG series with a character, but a stage would be great.

I don't see why its so lame. Bowser Jr is basically a smaller version of Bowser. Heck, he looks just like baby Bowser. Its less likely in my eyes to see a character like that then show up first before a second version of the main character in the series, who quite frankly would stand out a lot more. And remember, I'm not saying that Bowser Jr. would be automatically discounted either if Paper Mario was in there. Heck, Paper Mario could be filed under his own series or someing. It just doesn't feel right though having a second Bowser and not having a second Mario, especially when the second Mario represents a whole lot more than the second Bowser.

I know that Bass and Treble would be a lot less likely than Dr. Wiley but I don't like the idea of the main boss of the franchise being reduced to a mini-boss. With that being said, I don't like the idea of Robotnik/Eggman being the same way. For the Sonic franchise, I'd much rather see Metal Sonic. Regarding boss size, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the bosses the size of the characters even if they weren't playable. For example, maybe there would be a rouge force with Cosmic Mario, Metal Sonic, and Dark Samus that are causing chaos along with the bigger bosses.

But wouldn't those most likely be recolors of the established characters, and fighting them wouldn't be the same as fighting a boss? (As demonstrated how you don't fight the "dark" Samus's in the boss rush mode)

The main problem as I see it when going with a boss that's a character's size is that they should theoretically be knocked around just like any other character. Thus there is no reason for them to be a boss in the sense of Brawl's bosses, and they should just be characters who you happen to fight in story mode.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

1.)I don't think its that difficult to say at all. Toon Zelda hasn't really done much...heck, Zelda herself hasn't done much. Tingle on the other hand has had several playable games and what not. While some may dislike him, and thus play down his chances, he is one of the rare reoccuring Zelda characters. Yes Toon Zelda has shown up in her fair share of games as well, but she's still just another version of Zelda and not a brand new character.



2.)It was painful to you?

I'm sorry, but it just doesn't make sense to me how you can't see how inevitable Little Mac is. He's one of the few remaining retro characters (and quite frankly the most well known of the remaining bunch) who just got a Wii update to his series. He's a fighter, he's both retro and topical, and he's well known. I really don't know how he can't get any more obvious unless they start churning out sequles inbetween now and the next Smash.



3.)The Mother series got a second rep before Metroid, the SF series got a third rep before Metroid, and so on. I really don't think the WW series (or really any other series) depends on Metroid's future status, but rather its own status and pottential for unique characters. As the WW series popularity is high, and a microgame themed character from it can be very unique, I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed to get a second rep, while less popular series get their third or fourth.

1.) You could have a point I guess, but I still stand by Toon Zelda. Tingle does seem pretty likely though, but none of his games or anything like that will make me change positions.

2.)Yes, it was painful. Painful as in incredibly annoying and a waste of my time. But again, say anything you want, I'm not changing my position with the Balloon Fighter. Now please stop, I never even put this in the post, I don't want to get into this debate again. PLEASE.

3.) If I remember correctly, it goes like this: MOTHER got a second rep at the same time Metroid did. Donkey Kong got a second rep at the same time Metroid did. Kirby got 2 more reps at the same time Metroid got a second. The reason for Starfox getting a new rep before Metroid is this:Melee's development started around the time when Starfox was quickly gaining popularity, and when the Metroid series was near dead. Thus, you get Falco in Melee. Brawl started development during the popularty of Starfox as well, and you get Wolf, but Metroid got their new rep in that time as well. So that argument was useless.

I admit, a second WarioWare rep is likely, but still, I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Pieman0920]

1.) You could have a point I guess, but I still stand by Toon Zelda. Tingle does seem pretty likely though, but none of his games or anything like that will make me change positions.

Why wouldn't they change your position? Is the fact that Toon Zelda possibly being put in Brawl that strong? As I said, that was then, but times change. Tingle not only represents teh series as a whole best (being in both the more realistic and cel-shaded games) but has his own games now as well, which is a lot more than what can be said for Toon Zelda. (Who's only ability shown was the light arrows, which regular Zelda already has.) Heck, you're basically asking for a small Zelda clone, seeing as there's so little to work with here.

3.) If I remember correctly, it goes like this: MOTHER got a second rep at the same time Metroid did. Donkey Kong got a second rep at the same time Metroid did. Kirby got 2 more reps at the same time Metroid got a second. The reason for Starfox getting a new rep before Metroid is this:Melee's development started around the time when Starfox was quickly gaining popularity, and when the Metroid series was near dead. Thus, you get Falco in Melee. Brawl started development during the popularty of Starfox as well, and you get Wolf, but Metroid got their new rep in that time as well. So that argument was useless.

...No, that makes no sense at all. Couldn't I just say that the Metroid series couldn't get a second rep until Mother got a new rep? Or say that both of those couldn't get a new rep until DK got a new rep? I don't see where the real logic is in that Metroid is what controls this.

I admit, a second WarioWare rep is likely, but its not a superior chance like many characters up there.

Superior like Dixie Kong or Toon Zelda? You've got to be joking there. Popularity isn't everything, but it does provide a good kick, especailly when combined with uniquness. Seriously I think the main problem with your list is that its focusing more on the series to heavily, and not considering the pootential characters ranked amongst themselves, which in the end is a equal factor.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

1.) Why wouldn't they change your position? Is the fact that Toon Zelda possibly being put in Brawl that strong? As I said, that was then, but times change. Tingle not only represents teh series as a whole best (being in both the more realistic and cel-shaded games) but has his own games now as well, which is a lot more than what can be said for Toon Zelda. (Who's only ability shown was the light arrows, which regular Zelda already has.) Heck, you're basically asking for a small Zelda clone, seeing as there's so little to work with here.




2.) ...No, that makes no sense at all. Couldn't I just say that the Metroid series couldn't get a second rep until Mother got a new rep? Or say that both of those couldn't get a new rep until DK got a new rep? I don't see where the real logic is in that Metroid is what controls this.



3.) Superior like Dixie Kong or Toon Zelda? You've got to be joking there. Popularity isn't everything, but it does provide a good kick, especailly when combined with uniquness. Seriously I think the main problem with your list is that its focusing more on the series to heavily, and not considering the pootential characters ranked amongst themselves, which in the end is a equal factor.

1.) You don't understand. I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING **** ABOUT TINGLES GAMES. I stand by Toon Zelda, and I will until the day SSB4 is released (in a good four or five years).

2.) I don't know if you've noticed, but the Metroid series already has a second rep. I'm not sure if thats what you're saying or anything, because honestly, your post doesn't make sense. And you're going a bit too far with the whole "Spydr says Metroid controls who gets in and who doesn't!" thing. I obviously did not mean for a simple statement to be taken that far.

3.) I edited the post before you posted. I realize the "superior chances" was bad wording on my part. And its good to focus on the series and the characters equally. You don't want to end up with 6 MOTHER reps and 3 Legend of Zelda reps (obviously that would never happen). Its still too early for a new WarioWare rep. It isn't as popular as you are portraying, Star Fox, Donkey Kong, Kirby, and Metroid were WAY more popular back in there days than WarioWare is now. And Metroid and Kirby are tied, if not more popular than WarioWare. Just... don't expect a new WarioWare rep. It won't happen.



Anyway, I'm done with all this ****. I'm going to bed, have fun pissing each other off! After all, thats what this thread is for, right?

Oh... and TOON ZELDA, DIXIE KONG, and BALLOON FIGHTER for SSB4! (Before any **** WarioWare jokes)

G'night!

 

[sundayseclipse]

@enzo
to be honest thats not enough fighters for my satisfaction. i think smash4 should be all out.
there not enough rep for new series

any way gona fix somtin i did earlier tmro

 

[Fatmanonice]

I personally don't think it's a good idea to consider any of the "Forbidden 7" as shoe ins simply for the fact that they were cut in the first place. So far, we don't have any explanations for why any of them were cut. For all we know, some of their characteristics were "mixed" into characters that made it into the final roster (I have a theory that's what happened to Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, and Roy but that's another story in itself.) We have no idea if Toon Zelda/Sheik, Dixie, and Plusle and Minun weren't just there to test something given that, aside from Mewtwo and Roy, there's virtually no data on the disc suggesting that they even stayed all that long.

Regarding Dixie, King K. Rool and Diddy and Dixie as a team were both mentioned twice and neither was specifically addressed. As I said in an earlier post, the only character suggestions that Sakurai commented on were the one of the two Megaman suggestions and the one Toad suggestion (where he trolled a Kindergartener ).

Aside from that, I pretty much agree with everything else that was said aside for a few minor things.

Add in: You shouldn't judge Tingle's chances on your own personal bias. Believe me, I'd rather teabag a woodchipper than see him playable in Smash but there's no doubt that the little bugger is far away the most likely new Zelda pick if there is one. Unlike Toon Zelda, he was actually in the game in, if you ask me, the closest form to a playable character (assist trophy) and, like Wario and Yoshi, the star of his own franchise despite coming from a larger franchise.

 

[Scott!]

I just saw the IGN article on Professor Layton being invited to Brawl on Twitter (it was a joke). Now, I've decided that, no matter how little sense he makes as a fighter, and how few games he's been in, or any other arguments that could be made, I want him in, just cause he's awesome.

As for Toon Zelda vs. Tingle, I say add both, and then Tingle can take the place of Jigglypuff as the character I unleash cathartic slaughter on when I need to just Fsmash everyone with Ike a lot.

 

[majora_787]

As for Toon Zelda vs. Tingle, I say add both, and then Tingle can take the place of Jigglypuff as the character I unleash cathartic slaughter on when I need to just Fsmash everyone with Ike a lot.

...I'd have to agree. The only toon Zelda character I'd tolerate now is Ganondorf, because there's no way he SHOULD be a clone of the real one. If he were, I would make an NOA staff member eat my wii.

I still have a weird wishlist for SSB4...
Leon Kennedy, Doopliss, Ghor, Camus, Ridley, Geno, and K. Rool.

I guess it's just my preference, they'd all be my mains no matter how much they suck. Or in Leon's case, even if he never makes it in. =P

 

[Pieman0920]

1.) You don't understand. I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING **** ABOUT TINGLES GAMES. I stand by Toon Zelda, and I will until the day SSB4 is released (in a good four or five years).

Like Fatman said, your bias is screwing your judgement up here. Seriously, your inclusion of Toon Zelda makes about as much sense as adding in Dr. Mario instead of Yoshi. or something. Its nearly gauranteed clone your sending in there instead of a character with multiple apperances in the main series plus multiple games.

2.) I don't know if you've noticed, but the Metroid series already has a second rep. I'm not sure if thats what you're saying or anything, because honestly, your post doesn't make sense. And you're going a bit too far with the whole "Spydr says Metroid controls who gets in and who doesn't!" thing. I obviously did not mean for a simple statement to be taken that far.

Not really. Its pretty much one rep. Yes ZSS has her own moveset, but she's still Samus, and shares the same box. Heck, given that if you count that as a seperate character, as well as the fact that Toon Link exists, I find it quite odd that you don't think Paper Mario will make it, but that's another thing. What I'm saying doesn't make sense is that you're automatically assuming that Metroid is the series that is controlling this, and that the inclusion of a "second" character for it is what allows the other series to get their own. The thing is you've given no real proof on that, and the idea doesn't seem logical. And if you didn't want it to be taken so far, you shouldn't have kept using it in all your analysis.

3.) I edited the post before you posted. I realize the "superior chances" was bad wording on my part. And its good to focus on the series and the characters equally. You don't want to end up with 6 MOTHER reps and 3 Legend of Zelda reps (obviously that would never happen). Its still too early for a new WarioWare rep. It isn't as popular as you are portraying, Star Fox, Donkey Kong, Kirby, and Metroid were WAY more popular back in there days than WarioWare is now. And Metroid and Kirby are tied, if not more popular than WarioWare. Just... don't expect a new WarioWare rep. It won't happen.

Huh? It is more popular than every series back in "their days" outside of the Donkey Kong series. That being said, it doesn't matter if they were popular then, it matters what's popular now. 80% of Brawl's focus was on the development that series made between Melee and its game, so it would make sense that a simmilar occurance would happen for SSB4. Thus if the Wario series is going strong, then it should simply get its second character due to earning it on two different fronts. While I'm not saying that its something that's nearly 100% guaranteed like Little Mac, it makes much more sense than focusing on series that have been in slumps for the last two generations such as SF and DK, or have pretty much ended like FZ or Mother.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ This might have not been said, but don't you think next Smash should show Wario's true nature with his Warioware nature? That being said, there are also no songs or stage reps for Wario Land or Wario World, the non spinoffs, I'm saying maybe they should fix that a little. †

 

[Pieman0920]

The Wario in Brawl represents both sides of his series in my mind, though certain attacks such as his Neutral B and Up B could be changed around. For instance instead of the bite attack, he could have a neutral B where he grabs the opponent ala Wario Land Shake It, and pressing up and down real fast will cause Wario to shake them causing damage. (I guess if items were turned on, things may fly out?) If a opponent is caught in the air, it'd be a spinning piledriver going straight down into the ground.

But in any case, with either one or two characters, I think it'd be nice if the Wario series got two stages, one representing Wario Land, and the other representing WarioWare.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Not really. Its pretty much one rep. Yes ZSS has her own moveset, but she's still Samus, and shares the same box. Heck, given that if you count that as a seperate character, as well as the fact that Toon Link exists, I find it quite odd that you don't think Paper Mario will make it, but that's another thing. What I'm saying doesn't make sense is that you're automatically assuming that Metroid is the series that is controlling this, and that the inclusion of a "second" character for it is what allows the other series to get their own. The thing is you've given no real proof on that, and the idea doesn't seem logical. And if you didn't want it to be taken so far, you shouldn't have kept using it in all your analysis.

Zero Suit Samus is her own haracter. Sakurai counts her as her own character, so therefore, she's her own character. "Because they have the same box" is the worst excuse I've ever heard. According to Sakurai, there is 39 characters. But there's only 35 boxes! Oh NO! What do we do now!!? Zero Suit Samus is a separate character, deal with it. And I mentioned it twice in my post. I just think it would be strange for a series as popular as Metroid to not et another rep before a dead series like MOTHER or F-Zero. That was my only point, I never said it was controlling the roster or anyting like that, you did.

 

[Starphoenix]

Give me Ridley and Dark Samus! If we could get two Kirby characters in one game, it can happen.

 

[ffdgh]

dixie/krystal

tetra/zelda

jody....ok wtf i cant think of any other characters besides females
ok random name....balloon fighter

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Jody....ok Wtf I Cant Think Of Any Other Characters Besides Females
Ok Random Name....balloon Fighter

red = Yay!!!

But with that aside, can anyone think of any other Legend of Zelda candidates for SSB4? I have a list but I just don't think its... big enough.

LEGEND OF ZELDA
-Tingle
-Toon Zelda
-Vaati
-Skull Kid
-??? (any I missed?)


If we got Tingle or Toon Zelda and Vaati, that would be great. There would be 3 main reps and 3 toon reps (I think Tingle would be a toon rep in this case). Plus, a Toon villain thats not Ganondorf would be nice, and Vaati is perfect for that. Skull Kid, I don't know. He seemed likely back before Brawl came out, but I just don't see it happening anymore. I think he still has a small chance, though...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Give me Ridley and Dark Samus! If we could get two Kirby characters in one game, it can happen.

Metroid's different though because the series overwelmingly focuses on Samus. She's pretty much alone a vast majority of time and, aside from Ridley, her rivals (although Ridley and Samus's relationship runs a lot deeper than that) have only shown up in one title or were destroyed. Also, aside from the multi-player mode in Metroid Prime Hunters, Samus has been the only character who's ever been playable in her franchise. The Kirby franchise, in comparison, has dozens of people who have been playable including King Dedede and Metaknight. With this being said, if Metroid ever gets another character, it will probably only be one.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Metroid's different though because the series overwelmingly focuses on Samus. She's pretty much alone a vast majority of time and, aside from Ridley, her rivals (although Ridley and Samus's relationship runs a lot deeper than that) have only shown up in one title or were destroyed. Also, aside from the multi-player mode in Metroid Prime Hunters, Samus has been the only character who's ever been playable in her franchise. The Kirby franchise, in comparison, has dozens of people who have been playable including King Dedede and Metaknight. With this being said, if Metroid ever gets another character, it will probably only be one.

Do you think Metroid will get another character in SSB4? The reasons you mentioned is why its so difficult to speculate who would be a possible rep. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sakurai did say that he wanted to include more Metroid characters. But that was before Brawl, and we got Zero Suit Samus.


All I'm saying is, now that we have Zero Suit Samus as Metroid's second rep, do you think Sakurai would be done with Metroid?

 

[ffdgh]

bowser juinor
another character 4 earthbounbd
saki?
an animal crossing character (lol)

 

[Fatmanonice]

Do you think Metroid will get another character in SSB4? The reasons you mentioned is why its so difficult to speculate who would be a possible rep. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sakurai did say that he wanted to include more Metroid characters. But that was before Brawl, and we got Zero Suit Samus.


All I'm saying is, now that we have Zero Suit Samus as Metroid's second rep, do you think Sakurai would be done with Metroid?

It's hard to say simply because Sakurai was incredibly vague regarding that. It's like with the poll, what if he was talking about cameos rather than playable spots? ZSS was already in the game at that point and he said "I want to add" instead of "I wanted to add" suggesting that was indeed the case. Again, the roster was done (aside from Sonic) and the focus of development had already strongly shifted to making the SSE before E3 06 so that suggests even further than he was referring to cameos. He still showed a decent amount of interest in Ridley and, as I mentioned, the roster was already made at the time so making him a boss was probably the highest "honor" that Sakurai could reasonably give to him at the time. I also theorize this is what happened with Krystal too given the interest he showed but to a lesser degree.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

It's hard to say simply because Sakurai was incredibly vague regarding that. It's like with the poll, what if he was talking about cameos rather than playable spots? ZSS was already in the game at that point and he said "I want to add" instead of "I wanted to add" suggesting that was indeed the case. Again, the roster was done (aside from Sonic) and the focus of development had already strongly shifted to making the SSE before E3 06 so that suggests even further than he was referring to cameos. He still showed a decent amount of interest in Ridley and, as I mentioned, the roster was already made at the time so making him a boss was probably the highest "honor" that Sakurai could reasonably give to him at the time. I also theorize this is what happened with Krystal too given the interest he showed but to a lesser degree.

I guess anything could happen when it comes to Metroid in Smash. We can expect anything from Sakurai, we'll just have to wait and see what happens I guess.

bowser juinor
another character 4 earthbounbd
saki?
an animal crossing character (lol)

Bowser Jr. is almost guaranteed in. If Mario gets another rep, it will most definitely be Bowser Jr., no doubt about that.

Another character for EarthBound (MOTHER) probably isn't as unlikely as it may seem. Even though the series is dead, it has a large, vocal fanbase and the games are still popular and well known by gamers all around the world. We can probably expect to see a new MOTHER rep in SSB4.

Saki actually doesn't seem that unlikely. He was an Assist Trophy, I'm sure he has enough potential now to become a playable character. Like a new MOTHER rep, you should be ready to see Saki appear in SSB4, although there is still a good chance it wont happen. I'm just saying, don't be surprised.

Animal Crossing rep? I honestly don' think that will happen. I love the games, but I just can't see anyone from the games fighting, it's very out of character. Still, Animal Crossing will remain one of the main series of Smash, with a stage, a good number of stickers and trophies, and respectable music.

 

[Clownbot]

The fact that an AC character fighting would seem "out of character" is just bull.

Unfortunately, Sakurai pretty much said they wouldn't be playable, so unless he doesn't develop the next game, we still may not get one.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

The fact that an AC character fighting would seem "out of character" is just bull.

Unfortunately, Sakurai pretty much said they wouldn't be playable, so unless he doesn't develop the next game, we still may not get one.

I agree with your first statement, but that is what Sakurai sais, and there is an EXTREMELY good chance Sakurai will be directing the next Smash.

 

[ffdgh]

air shielding and airdodging
b button smashes(,,,,yeah right)
l and r have Vspot dodge
<>roll dodge
^counter dodge? as in a prarry?with set knock back for every character

 

[lordvaati]

aww, not that last page glitch again.

 

[ffdgh]

i though that was just me seeing that. this topic usually have 2 last pages for me

 

[SmashChu]

Just some other quick stuff, I didn't notice the thing about Waluigi and what Sakurai mentioned. It's interesting, and I think we may all be wrong on Mario characters.

My think for the next has become to look at the assist trophies. I think a lot of them were added because people wanted them. Lyn is a good example of this as we loved her in the West, but Japan doesn't feel the same way. Saki's page on the Dojo has something similar to Waluigi's but is more direct. He say he knew a lot of people wanted to see this character (funfact: when the roster was decided, Sin and Punishment was not released on the VC, so it was still a Japanese only game).

I think there are going to be a good amount of fighters who were once assist trophies.

Note how that link says "finalized" which lines up with I keep saying of how the roster was decided in 2005 and programmed into the game in early 2006.

Words have multiple meaning. He could also mean "I picked all the characters in 2006" like I'm saying. What you are doing is mincing words. Also, since he was talking though a translator, I doubt the translator would use tricky wording. And, since the message was transferred via a third party, it is doubtful any tricky words would be used for the third party because there is no purpose in doing so. What does he gain from everyone believing wrong information?

1) ... the only thing that was posted on Nsider was a letter from Sakurai asking people what they thought of the characters that were shown in the E3 06 trailer, not what characters they wanted. Also the character suggestion thread was made for the same reason this thread was made, to keep it from clogging up the boards with dozens and dozens of threads that essentially say the same things.

No. The point of the sticky-ed favorite character thread was to collect information from western fans. It even said that in his letter.

2) ... again, in the post Melee notes, Sakurai said that he originally wanted to replace Ness with Lucas in Melee. That's all that matters in that regard. Sakurai knew he existed and it was known that a Mother 3 was in production. End of story.

Yet he kept Ness. If they were so similar, why keep Ness if his goal was just to replace him with Lucas. But he decided to kept both. If he was working on that principle, then why would he have chosen characters based on what he wanted then asking what people wanted. It's not consistent.

3) Lucario represented the upcoming generation so it really doesn't matter that he was only known by a few people at the time. I honestly don't see the huge flaw in logic that you insist exists in this situation. Sakurai didn't have to wait on the official releases to decide so why you insist that he did is beyond me.

What about Generation 3? If the goal was to represent other generations then where was the gen 3 character. The added more gen 1 Pokemon but not gen 3 (maybe because Gen 1 is the one everyone loves hmm).

Also, one problem with this logic is that Sakuria said that the character has to want to make people play the game (this is why Tingle wont appear). We didn't know is Lucas or Lucario would have pissed people off like Tingle does. Then what? Of course, this may also mean "characters people want to see." People were happy to see Pit and Wario because they have wanted those characters for a long time. Meaning part of it is also popularity.

6) You honestly think that a development team of probably 15-20 professional programmers at the did nothing in 8 months but make a 3 minute trailer? I think it would insult their intelligence to suggest otherwise.

I'm just saying what he said. But, again, I assume a lot of the work was on logistics more then anything else. Also, the game was running off the Melee engine and most of the effects and actions came right from that game. They probably didn't get very far.

One thing I will say is you claim that we are talking in the stone age when the claim can not be proven. Heck, if he was also using Melee data for characters (which could very well be true for characters like Diddy, Wolf, and Wario) doesn't that mean he was using what people liked over what he thought he could make an interesting character out of? Also, most of the characters were ones that were popular. Pokemon Trainer exemplifies this as he uses Pokemon only from the first generation. I know that this is everyone's favorite by far. But, if his goal was representation, why not use gen 3 or gen 4 starters? I don't think the claim "Sakurai chooses only what can make a good moveset" is entirely truthful.

I have an eye doctor appointment to go to so I'll get back to this.

Well, I worked so it took me this long to get back.

 

[BKupa666]

bowser juinor
another character 4 earthbounbd
saki?
an animal crossing character (lol)

Earthbound is overrepresented with two characters. Seriously, it's a great series, but it only has three games. We're lucky to have Ness and Lucas together; hoping for a new character is just too much.

Saki would be an interesting choice, but I don't see a whole lot of popularity. Still, Sakurai shows interest by using Saki as an AT; I can't really judge this one.

Animal Crossing is a great and popular series, but like Balloon Fighter, Sakurai just can't seem to envision a fighting character from those games. I hope it happens, but it seems unlikely as of now.

Fatmanonice, since you've given your opinions for several other series, what do you think is likely to happen to Mario? Geno seems ultra popular (I am clueless as to why Jr. is not at all represented in polls/Sakurai's notebook), while Jr. seems like an easier option to choose (1st party, and could be a reasonable Luigified-clone, although he should use his paintbrush). Also, Mario is kind of shafted in terms of characters (4 to Pokemon's 6?! WTF!); what's your take on the matter?

EDIT: By the way, I just went to Professor Layton's Twitter and posted: It's a good thing you left the Smash Tournament when you did; there's supposed to be a psychotic king crocodile there!

Just for the lulz.

 

[sundayseclipse]

red = Yay!!!

But with that aside, can anyone think of any other Legend of Zelda candidates for SSB4? I have a list but I just don't think its... big enough.

LEGEND OF ZELDA
-Tingle
-Toon Zelda
-Vaati
-Skull Kid
-??? (any I missed?)


If we got Tingle or Toon Zelda and Vaati, that would be great. There would be 3 main reps and 3 toon reps (I think Tingle would be a toon rep in this case). Plus, a Toon villain thats not Ganondorf would be nice, and Vaati is perfect for that. Skull Kid, I don't know. He seemed likely back before Brawl came out, but I just don't see it happening anymore. I think he still has a small chance, though...

tingle would have no fighting abilitys, and would rip balloon fighter.
toon zelda....eh depends if shes gona be a pirate arg.

you missed zant and Agahnim.
to be honest the next zelda reps should be secondary villlians so its eitther skull kid, vaati or agahnim. seeing zant is to knew and also depending on LOZ wii

also missed wolf link transformation.

HAPPY 4TH OF JULY , GET WASTED AND BLOW **** UP GUYS