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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Claire Diviner

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@UberMario: So what you're saying is we could've had an extra character, like the often requested Mega Man or the rumored Leon Kennedy, and maybe bring back Mewtwo. That's just depressing: Brawl could've been even greater than it already is had they filled the rest of the 25%. Oh well. =__=
 

UberMario

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Megaman wasn't added because of licensing [notice NOTHING from Capcom was in Brawl] and somehow, even with three years of development [at least twce as long as Melee had], they had to cut characters and songs due to time constraints.

Thank you Subspace Emissary! /sarcasm
 

Claire Diviner

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Megaman wasn't added because of licensing [notice NOTHING from Capcom was in Brawl] and somehow, even with three years of development [at least twce as long as Melee had], they had to cut characters and songs due to time constraints.

Thank you Subspace Emissary! /sarcasm
Oh, so that's why. I heard rumors saying that a possible Mega Man/Leon Kennedy wasn't added due to Nintendo's bitterness toward Capcom for releasing RE4 for the PS2 when it was supposed to be Gamecube exclusive, or something along those lines. But still, reasons of time constraints seem more realistic.
 

UberMario

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Yeah, I can't see Nintendo feeling that ticked off toward Capcom when over 60 of their games have come out on Nintendo systems in some way, shape, or form, especially since Capcom is going to have no less than five games on the starting lineup of the Nintendo 3DS. XD

-A Professor Layton & Phoenix Wright crossover, rumored to be Japan-exclusive
-A Super Street Fighter IV remake
-Two Resident Evil games (presumably one is a remake)
-Mega Man Legends 3
 

PD4FR

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Maybe it's been said, but I don't think it'll do any harm to bring it up again. ^_^

I'd love to see Marina Lightyears from Mischief Makers in the next Smash. Her moves could definitely work, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who loved that game. <3

I'm not really sure what company owns her in Japan, though. I've heard Enix, Treasure, and Nintendo, so I'm a little confused. :3
 

ryuu seika

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I'd love to see Marina Lightyears from Mischief Makers in the next Smash. Her moves could definitely work, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who loved that game. <3
It's been a long time since I've played that. It was a fun game, if a little awkward at times and I could see her working.

Do you think they'd map her moves to the Dpad for nostalgia's sake or use the control stick for consistancy with the rest of the cast?
 

PD4FR

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It's been a long time since I've played that. It was a fun game, if a little awkward at times and I could see her working.

Do you think they'd map her moves to the Dpad for nostalgia's sake or use the control stick for consistancy with the rest of the cast?
The D-pad on the GC controller would be kind of hard to utilize for movement. Maybe it's easier with the Classic Controller; I don't really use it, so I wouldn't know.

Then again, maybe the next system will come out before SSB4 and it'll work out.
I would expect her to be like the rest of the cast, though.

Yea, I loved the OST of that game. There are some songs that would really work in the next Smash. I'm sure they could come up with a level or two, as well.

Edit -
@JSN - Obviously that's up to the other parties, though, not Nintendo.
 

PD4FR

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It was awkward on the N64 aswell and as such the game really aught to have used the control stick.
Hm...I think the main reason Mischief Makers used the D-Pad was because the whole dashing concept would have worked even worse on the control stick. you know, when you repeatedly click the D-Pad to dash? Yea, that wouldn't work on the stick, lol.

Overall, I still think she'd be a great addition. I would definitely main her.
In addition to Ganon, of course. :ganondorf:
 

fenyx4

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Umm... http://kotaku.com/5676403/mega-mans-creator-quits-capcom


:crying: Does this mean Megaman has an even lesser chance of getting into SSB4? I know Capcom will likely continue the Megaman series without Keiji Inafune being present, but still... I remember reading that Inafune even wanted Megaman to be in Smash Bros., specifically Brawl, except he stated that Sakurai never asked him:

http://kotaku.com/337140/inafune-says-no-megaman-in-brawl


Ugh...I figured Inafune would be a major factor in pushing for Megaman's inclusion in SSB4, since he actually enjoys the series. Still, he will be missed by Megaman fans...

 

Serph

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It occured to me the other day that we're actually not too far from a time where talk of SSB4 can really heat up. If I remember correctly there was roughly 3 and a half years between Melee's Japanese release and the announcement of Brawl, and we're now coming up to Brawl's third year anniversary.

I'm not suggesting the next game will follow the same sort of time scale, but it's something to think about. With Wii sales drying up as they are, I would be very surprised if the next home console isn't at least being talked about by the end of next year, and with a new console comes the possibility of a new Smash Brothers.
 

ryuu seika

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I get the feeling that Brawl was designed to be the last. I mean, I could be wrong and, even if I'm not, that doesn't prohibit a mind change from nintendo but just look at the game.

They spent more than twice as long on it as any other smash game, gave us a stage roster that took up more than the whole screen, made a story mode with a 3 hour final level and the previous boss character in chains, not to mention a boss with 1 hit KOs and the supposed destruction of the nintendo universe. They threw in fan favourites from other companies (though that was intended for Melee so probably doesn't count) and a large chunk of the story revolved around a new character who wasn't even from a video game (R.O.B.). And then we've got the new theme. It sounds epic, the meaning sums up the entire series into one epic legend and it's even in latin. And then they made the game focus more on ariels. Everyone knows air combos are amazing.

Yes, we all know the gameplay changes were a mess but it is still downright glaringly obvious that they pulled out all the stops to try and make this sash as epic as physically possible, definitely hinting at it being designed as the last.
 

Claire Diviner

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I get the feeling that Brawl was designed to be the last. I mean, I could be wrong and, even if I'm not, that doesn't prohibit a mind change from nintendo but just look at the game.

They spent more than twice as long on it as any other smash game, gave us a stage roster that took up more than the whole screen, made a story mode with a 3 hour final level and the previous boss character in chains, not to mention a boss with 1 hit KOs and the supposed destruction of the nintendo universe. They threw in fan favourites from other companies (though that was intended for Melee so probably doesn't count) and a large chunk of the story revolved around a new character who wasn't even from a video game (R.O.B.). And then we've got the new theme. It sounds epic, the meaning sums up the entire series into one epic legend and it's even in latin. And then they made the game focus more on ariels. Everyone knows air combos are amazing.

Yes, we all know the gameplay changes were a mess but it is still downright glaringly obvious that they pulled out all the stops to try and make this sash as epic as physically possible, definitely hinting at it being designed as the last.
Those were my thoughts as well. Honestly, I wouldn't want Brawl to be the last entry, but if it is, then so be it.

Assuming Brawl isn't the last in the series, however, we could expect a new one to surface the moment Nintendo announces a new console. The had SSB for the N64, SSBM for Gamecube, and now Brawl for the Wii. Whatever the case, talking about a possible SSB4 is simply theorizing in hindsight... but still fun to discuss nonetheless.
 

ryuu seika

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Not a clue but they also managed to get the words "Final Smash" into just about every Brawl based conversation if that counts for anything.

Yes, I would also like another smash, preferably more like the first two, I'm just saying that that might ot be how nintendo feels on the subject.
 

Arcadenik

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I get the feeling that Brawl was designed to be the last. I mean, I could be wrong and, even if I'm not, that doesn't prohibit a mind change from nintendo but just look at the game.
It is because it was designed as if it was the last game in the series. Melee was even designed as if it was the last game in the series, too.
 

Big-Cat

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I get the feeling that Brawl was designed to be the last. I mean, I could be wrong and, even if I'm not, that doesn't prohibit a mind change from nintendo but just look at the game.

They spent more than twice as long on it as any other smash game, gave us a stage roster that took up more than the whole screen, made a story mode with a 3 hour final level and the previous boss character in chains, not to mention a boss with 1 hit KOs and the supposed destruction of the nintendo universe. They threw in fan favourites from other companies (though that was intended for Melee so probably doesn't count) and a large chunk of the story revolved around a new character who wasn't even from a video game (R.O.B.). And then we've got the new theme. It sounds epic, the meaning sums up the entire series into one epic legend and it's even in latin. And then they made the game focus more on ariels. Everyone knows air combos are amazing.

Yes, we all know the gameplay changes were a mess but it is still downright glaringly obvious that they pulled out all the stops to try and make this sash as epic as physically possible, definitely hinting at it being designed as the last.
Despite working on it for twice as long, you can see a lot of stuff was taken out and that they put way too much time into the single player. As for the stage roster, while I don't like a number of stages, it taking up more than just the screen doesn't mean anything as it all as it really depends on the size of thumbnails.

And yeah, that final 3 hour level in the story mode? I love how they just put all the other levels together and made me repeat everything again. To be fair, I'd still prefer to see a Metroidvania setup like that in the next game if they decide to do it again.

Air combos are nice, but I don't like how everything feels so floaty, yet my Melee main, Fox, is like me in water to the point that I can't play as him because his fall speed is so different from everyone else's. And I still don't understand why there had to be such an emphasis in the first place.

I've regurgitated this before, but I feel like I have to say it each time I see it.
 

UberMario

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As for the stage roster, while I don't like a number of stages, it taking up more than just the screen doesn't mean anything as it all as it really depends on the size of thumbnails.
Or, they could just simply add new pages for more stages, kind of like how Brawl, Melee, and Custom stages have different pages in Brawl. They could always have a palette to choose the series you want to play from, then select the stages attributed to that series/universe. The extra room available on each page could be used for a map of the course, kind of like the little "hologram" used on Melee's stage select screen.
 

Serph

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Yes, I would also like another smash, preferably more like the first two, I'm just saying that that might ot be how nintendo feels on the subject.
You should know by now that Nintendo isn't in the habit of retiring highly profitable series. Calling it a day on Smash Brothers makes absolutely zero sense. You may as well say Mario Kart is at risk while you're at it.

Additionally, Sakurai has already said that he isn't prepared to speak about characters and features he wanted to include in Brawl, as he wants to hold them back in the event of a fourth game.
 

Claire Diviner

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You should know by now that Nintendo isn't in the habit of retiring highly profitable series. Calling it a day on Smash Brothers makes absolutely zero sense. You may as well say Mario Kart is at risk while you're at it.

Additionally, Sakurai has already said that he isn't prepared to speak about characters and features he wanted to include in Brawl, as he wants to hold them back in the event of a fourth game.
Oh, well then there you go. Since Sakurai said that himself, then there's really nothing we smashers should fear. It makes sense too, since I'm sure there were a number of things they wanted to include in Brawl, but scrapped due to time constraints.
 

DekuBoy

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After Kid Icarus Uprising comes out we'll have a load of new stuff he could use in the game. I always excite myself just thinking about it.
 

ryuu seika

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What do you mean "play epicly"?
i think he means well...
No, I mean epicly. SSB64 played well but the gameplay didn't have the epic feel to it that Melee's did. Thus, only Melee played "epicly".

Despite working on it for twice as long, you can see a lot of stuff was taken out and that they put way too much time into the single player.
And the single player prospered because of it. It's just a shame they ruined the rest of the game for it.

And yeah, that final 3 hour level in the story mode? I love how they just put all the other levels together and made me repeat everything again. To be fair, I'd still prefer to see a Metroidvania setup like that in the next game if they decide to do it again.
The story couldn't have really avoided that IMO but yes, it was an annoying and repetetive last level but execution isn't my point. It was designed to be epic and failed because of it. Epicness isn't something you can really make intentionally. You make games good and the epicness may or may not come with that. Sacrificing good design for epic design almost inevitably leads to a final product that is neither good nor epic.

Air combos are nice, but I don't like how everything feels so floaty, yet my Melee main, Fox, is like me in water to the point that I can't play as him because his fall speed is so different from everyone else's. And I still don't understand why there had to be such an emphasis in the first place.
They focused on air combos because people like air combos. I never said it was a good idea. This is another example of the aforementioned sacrificing gameplay in the hope of epicness that inevitably never happens.

Additionally, Sakurai has already said that he isn't prepared to speak about characters and features he wanted to include in Brawl, as he wants to hold them back in the event of a fourth game.
OK, never mind me then. This near confirms its eventual creation.
Now all we have to worry about is another Brawl.
 

DekuBoy

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Maybe he means characters decked in black clashing with katanas in gothic cathedrals. :)

I'm just looking forward to DKCR. Also who else is getting Goldeneye?
 

Claire Diviner

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Maybe he means characters decked in black clashing with katanas in gothic cathedrals. :)

I'm just looking forward to DKCR. Also who else is getting Goldeneye?
I'm so getting the new Goldeneye. I really hope it lives up to the expectations we have for it. I mean, come on: it's Goldeneye with wi-fi! At least that's what the concept appears to be! X3
 

Pieman0920

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No, I mean epicly. SSB64 played well but the gameplay didn't have the epic feel to it that Melee's did. Thus, only Melee played "epicly".
....And what does that mean? If you had said that about the original Smash, I would have understood maybe, since that game generally made it seem like attacks were hitting harder, even if they weren't really. There's nothing that I would say stands out as "epic" though in terms of Melee's gameplay that was lacking in the other two.
 

Big-Cat

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Like everyone else said, I have no idea what you're talking about with all this epic talk.
And the single player prospered because of it. It's just a shame they ruined the rest of the game for it.
I wouldn't say it prospered. Break the Targets became stupid, Race to the Finish was gone, Classic Mode became redundant. All-Star Mode was too long - IMO that should've turned into Survival Mode, and once you were done with the stuff, you had no reason to really go back to it unless you were bored or wanted to beat and an old score.

The story couldn't have really avoided that IMO but yes, it was an annoying and repetetive last level but execution isn't my point. It was designed to be epic and failed because of it. Epicness isn't something you can really make intentionally. You make games good and the epicness may or may not come with that. Sacrificing good design for epic design almost inevitably leads to a final product that is neither good nor epic.
Yes, it could've avoided that cop-out level. Tabuu (in retrospect, this is a really uninspiring name) could've not absorbed those levels and you could jsut beat him. If anything else, they could've designed the last level to be this distorted blend of the levels where it ended up having its own design.

They focused on air combos because people like air combos. I never said it was a good idea. This is another example of the aforementioned sacrificing gameplay in the hope of epicness that inevitably never happens.
They didn't have to make it floaty though. Look at Marvel and Guillty Gear. They do their combos in the air with one attack right after the other instead of launching someone away from them and they don't fall down so slowly. While I admit this would be different than Smash is typically known for, but this might've worked if implemented right.
 

ryuu seika

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I wouldn't say it prospered. Break the Targets became stupid, Race to the Finish was gone, Classic Mode became redundant. All-Star Mode was too long - IMO that should've turned into Survival Mode, and once you were done with the stuff, you had no reason to really go back to it unless you were bored or wanted to beat and an old score.
Ok, point made. I meant that the upgrade to adventure mode worked out (besides the last level) because of the undue attention it was given.

Yeah, the rest of the game is fail.

And I have as little clue as to what defines "epicness" as anyone else :(.
 

Claire Diviner

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I guess we can come to an agreement that each entry has what the other doesn't. Assuming a SSB4 is in the future, let's hope Nintendo can learn from fan feedback. Then again, with the anti-competitive Sakurai around, there will inevitably be a mechanic in there that will be completely unneeded. Who knows?
 

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The fact that it's a multiplayer game makes it inherently competitive. If he doesn't like that, then stick to making single player games.
 
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