[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ToiseOfChoice]

I got all lonely in this thread wondering where all the people who prefer Brawl to Melee went, then I got hungry instead.

 

[ryuu seika]

There are people who prefer Brawl?

I prefer Brawl story mode but the rest I could do without. They even ditched my favourite stage and stole the music for a rubbishy new one.

EDIT: well, second favourite if you count non-playables.

 

[Starphoenix]

One thing I have noticed in Brawl is how large the characters models are in comparison to the stages.

 

[DekuBoy]

I prefer Brawl. It's actually a more tactical game which I enjoy. I don't like the gravity though.

 

[UberMario]

I like Brawl's emphasis on air combat and the LARGER amount of viable stages, but prefer 64's hitstun and Melee's speed.

 

[ElPanandero]

Brawl's too campy, and stall-festable.

 

[Starphoenix]

Brawl feels "sticky" to me.

 

[DekuBoy]

Campy? Sticky? Explain.

 

[ryuu seika]

LARGER amount of viable stages

Yeah but all the new ones are rubbish.

 

[Big-Cat]

Campy? Sticky? Explain.

I don't know what he means by sticky, but campy would refer to how your best options are to be defensive and that the risk involved on going on the offensive is not proportional to the reward in successfully attacking. You're better off spamming Falco's lasers than to try approaching with Ganondorf period.

 

[UberMario]

Yeah but all the new ones are rubbish.

Clearly you don't remember the amazingly unusable stages of Brinstar Depths, Venom, Yoshi's Island 64, Icicle Mountain, Temple, and Mushroom Kingdom 64. >_>

Seriously, 64 had a whopping one stage without noticable elements (Dreamland), while Melee had a few (Final Destination, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams), and Brawl has as many as Melee (Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Lylat Cruise)

I hate when people automatically think that the older games had more usable stages, they all had at least 40% broken stages.

And the "stickiness" he's probably talking about i the landng lag and jumping lag in comparison to the 64 and Melee.

 

[augustoflores]

i just saw a gamestop commercial for DKCR on disney xd; it was followed by "5 little monkeys jumping on the bed" family game... that caught me off guard. i can't wait for the TV commercial for everything else from E3... also, some time recently, i could have sworn i heard the goldeneye theme song when i went to the kitchen. it was a sound that came out while a sibling was channel surfing.. can anyone confirm that New Goldeneye has made it to the commercials yet?

are there added frames in brawl for jumping and landing? maybe the lag is the fluid motion of an actual land and jump.

 

[ryuu seika]

Clearly you don't remember the amazingly unusable stages of Brinstar Depths, Venom, Yoshi's Island 64, Icicle Mountain, Temple, and Mushroom Kingdom 64. >_>

Seriously, 64 had a whopping one stage without noticable elements (Dreamland), while Melee had a few (Final Destination, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams), and Brawl has as many as Melee (Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Lylat Cruise)

I hate when people automatically think that the older games had more usable stages, they all had at least 40% broken stages.

And I don't exactly like how you assume that me saying I much prefered the Non-Brawl stages means that I think the older ones were more useable.

Brawl stage design may or may not turn out more neutral stages but it turns out less fun stages. That and the fact that they ditched Dreamland 64 means I can't think of any stages I'd ever want to play on in Brawl but FD.

 

[ryuu seika]

I hate when people automatically think that the older games had more usable stages, they all had at least 40% broken stages.

And I hate how you assume that I think the older stages were usable just because I hate the Brawl ones. Brawl stages may or may not be more usable but they sure are less fun.

That and the cutting of Dreamland 64 means there isn't a single stage in Brawl but FD I'd ever choose to play on.

 

[Pieman0920]

You've got odd parameters on what are epic and fun, you know that RS? I mean, unless you're either hung up on the aesthetics, or really liked Brinstar Depths, Brawl pretty much has everything Melee had to offer plus more.

 

[ElPanandero]

Campy? Sticky? Explain.

I don't know what he means by sticky, but campy would refer to how your best options are to be defensive and that the risk involved on going on the offensive is not proportional to the reward in successfully attacking. You're better off spamming Falco's lasers than to try approaching with Ganondorf period.

Good job Kuma. this is basically what I meant. If you watch a competitive game (note, I'm not trying to advocate for competitive vs casual, this just simply uses extremes to iterate my point.) Most often it will be character X *coughmetaknightcouchcouch* against character y and once character x gets a lead he stalls whichever way is best for his character. I saw a match where the it was MK vs. Diddy in which the match consisted of both of them feinti jumping at the other. At one point, the match stopped and they taunted a bit because MK was camping behind the rock wall in Pokestadium.

 

[Big-Cat]

Good job Kuma. this is basically what I meant. If you watch a competitive game (note, I'm not trying to advocate for competitive vs casual, this just simply uses extremes to iterate my point.) Most often it will be character X *coughmetaknightcouchcouch* against character y and once character x gets a lead he stalls whichever way is best for his character. I saw a match where the it was MK vs. Diddy in which the match consisted of both of them feinti jumping at the other. At one point, the match stopped and they taunted a bit because MK was camping behind the rock wall in Pokestadium.

I saw that one. Reminded me why I haven't gone back to playing Brawl. Do you have the link though?

 

[Starphoenix]

Maybe I should clarify what I mean when I say "sticky". It seems like moves don't flow as well as I recall they did in Melee. Maybe there is another term that would be more appropriate but that is the best way I can explain what I mean.

 

[ElPanandero]

Nahm I can't find the link... I'm pretty sure the Meta was M2K, can't remember the Diddy though.

 

[Big-Cat]

Is this the video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbmu8fGcWaw

It's not M2K, but Plank (no, not that Plank).

This comment made me lol:

first there were no combos in brawl

then the metagame developed

and now there is not even hitting in brawl

everytime someone talks about brawl I'm going to show them this video

 

[ryuu seika]

You've got odd parameters on what are epic and fun, you know that RS? I mean, unless you're either hung up on the aesthetics, or really liked Brinstar Depths, Brawl pretty much has everything Melee had to offer plus more.

Are you saying you honestly like brawl stage design? I'm not saying the stage design of Melee was "epic" as it wasn't really (outside of the FD improvements) but it was a lot more fun.
My idea of good stage design is stuff like DL64, Kongo Jungle 64, Brinstar, Big Blue, FoD, etc. Things that are simple in concept but lead to complex changes in how the game plays without distancing it too much from the subject matter.
Brawl overcomplicated things for no good reason, adding in rubbish like ladders and the ability to swim, that didn't help the game at all and also made far too many of them move without any need to. This took the stages away from the simple and iconic feel they used to have.

The "epicness" of Melee was almost entirely in the feel of the gameplay. Brawl changed this an now it feels empty and as though they tried to make it more epic and ended up making it less so.

 

[Pieman0920]

You seriously need to actually explain what you're talking about. In terms of gameplay, I have no idea what you're talking about. In terms of stages, I have no idea what you see in Melee's that aren't in Brawl's. You're just saying vague things. Ladders were in a total of two or so stages. Swimming wasn't really in many stages either (Pirate Ship, The Summit, Delfino sometimes, and I can't seem to remember others.) It added to variety, and if you didn't like those "complicated" mechanics, there were plenty of other stages that were more simple.

 

[UberMario]

They added swimming because it made no freaking sense for the characters to fall through Melee's water as fast as they did in the air, and the only two stages that have ladders in Brawl are both banned. (Rumble Falls and 75m)

To be honest, I think you are being biased toward the Melee stages, Ryuu. I've played Melee more than 64 and Brawl combined and I don't see anything more "exciting" in Melee's stages than in those two.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

The "epicness" of Melee was almost entirely in the feel of the gameplay. Brawl changed this an now it feels empty and as though they tried to make it more epic and ended up making it less so.

Oh come on, be more vague. You could've said "I just don't like it as much" and that'd be that.


You know what I wish they'd do in the next game? Random sounds/visuals from various Nintendo games in various places, like how Melee's All-Star area had the Great Cave save room song. Or a good chunk of Game Boy Camera, if any of you had that.

Pretty sure they won't do that at all, but meh.

 

[Pieman0920]

....There was music from the Game Boy Camera? Or are you saying that the Game Boy Camera had random Nintendo music in other places?

Anyways, while I doubt they'd do that, there probably will be a couple of random ones thrown in there, such as Squirtle's Koopa shell sound effect. Of course, the odds probably would increase for a random song, if all of the songs weren't remixed versions of the main theme. :V

 

[Claire Diviner]

As far as ladders go, only one legal stage had it: Pictochat. Even then, it was completely random. For water, you had Pirate Ship, Jungle Japes and Delfino Plaza for legal stages.

Also, people are constantly gonna whine over which is better between Melee and Brawl. In truth, they each have what the other doesn't. Also, just because one likes Melee over Brawl or vice versa doesn't mean they should hate on the other. Accept the other game for what it has to offer, whether you like it or not. I prefer Brawl, but I also love Melee for what it has in terms of gameplay mechanics, although I have since lost all touch with Melee's mechanics, so I'm garbage in that game... and now I'm being verbose, so I'll end my post here. XD

 

[Flame Hyenard]

....There was music from the Game Boy Camera?

Music of this "game"

 

[ryuu seika]

Fine, I'll leave things as "I don't see what you people see in Brawl" and leave it at that. SSE was the one vaguely interesting part of the game IMO.

I don't know why I feel the way I do but, for me, 64 was a great fun game to which Melee added all sorts of stuff and a competetive feel that the original lacked, while taking away my ability to play as non-Kirby characters. Brawl wasn't the same as either and felt poorly designed.

 

[Pieman0920]

@Hyenard: Oh, I know that the thing had music. I was just questioning Toise if he meant that some of the music in Smash was actually from it....or if he meant that the Game Boy Camera's music was based on other game's.

@Ryuu
...So its just your gut saying all of this? In that case, I wouldn't really go around flaunting that.

 

[Fawfulcopter]

WELP, looks like it's time for my first post.
And it is...well, I'm just gonna go with the flow.
My first point-The Smash Brothers Franchise needs to branch out. I'm talking Super Smash Brothers RPG, Smash Kart, Super Smash Tennis(OK, Maybe I'm kidding there), and maybe even release a sequel to the Subspace Emissary as its own game. Sure, the fighting games are fun, but could you imagine a race between Captain Falcon in the Blue Falcon, Sonic running at top speeds, Wario on his Bike and Kirby on Wheelie?
Could you imagine a turn-based style of gameplay, fighting Tabbu one attack at a time, with a party of Ness, Pikachu, Isaac and Ike?
That's all I'll say about that. Now, I don't believe they should stop making the fighting games. NO SIR! They should have it branch out more, though. Just like how Mario is a series of Platformers, RPGs, Sports Games, Racers and even a DDR game.
Now, who do I think should be in SSB4? Well, I'll give you my answer of the most rudimentary, basic, simple, expected roster. It shall have 50 characters even, adding 15 characters to Brawl's 35.
Now, people say there shouldn't be another Mario Rep-after all, we have all 7 really major characters, and there's never been a series with over 4 characters in a Smash Game, right? Well, hate to break it to you, but Dr. Mario in Melee counted as a 5th Mario characters, and besides that, before Melee, there had never been a series with more than 2 charcaters in it, so it's not like it can't go up from there.
So, I'm thinking they should add one character to each row, add a 10th row, and add a character in place of the random box. This, is, of course, 50. I was also thinking that if they wanted to DLC, they'd have to set up the roster in such a way that characters could fit off the sides.
*** such, I have added a new Mario character. Who? Well, only the recent upstart who has been in every major Mario title since his first appearance. Bowser Junior was a secondary villain in New Super Mario Bros Wii, Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, as well as being the main villain throughout most of both Mario Sunshine and New Super Mario Bros DS. He was also playable in almost every spinoff game since then, including Mario Golf:Toadstool Tour, Mario Karts Double Dash and Wii, Mario Power Tennis, Super Sluggers and Superstar Baseball, Hoops 3-on-3, Strikers Charged, and Mario and Sonic @ the Olympic Winter Games.
I believe all of this evidence is in clear support of Bowser Junior for Smash. Now, he would fight using his Paintbrush for Specials and Smashes, and mostly his claws and teeth for regular attacks. His Plain B could toss a glob of Goop, which lands on the ground if it doesn't connect(Connecting does little damage and knockback), creating a puddle of Goop that is not only Poisonous(Puts a flower on your head), but also Slippery(Sliding and Tripping Galore!). His Side B could be a counter move, however, if it while doing it, instead of countering with an attack, he paints the opponent into a shadow version of themselves, making them Slow, Weak, Slippery on everything and Heavy. They continue in this form either until they die, or after the same amount of time as they would get for a Metal Box.
His Up B would be the Mini Klown Kar. It would be essentially the same as Snake's, but, it is less overpowered, from the bottom instead of the top, and the propellor on the bottom does damage. His Down B is the Koopa Shell, which, much like NSMB, he tosses out, sending them at varying speeds, doing damage equal to that of the item 'Green Koopa Shell'. On rare occasions, his shell would be a red one, which would return doing what they did in Melee.
As for his Final Smash, the Koopalings, of course. They'd rampage around in their own unique ways, based on their various boss fights and mannerisms. As an added bonus, if there are alt costumes, Bowser Jr's alt would make these Koopalings look like they did in Mario World, where their designs were perfected.
Whew, that was long. I'll try to make these shorter.
As for the next series with a new character, I'm thinking either one of the 2 biggest DK reps not already in-K. Rool or Dixie Kong.
It all depends on who is spiking in popularity at the time. Donkey Kong Country Returns 2 is coming out, with Dixie and Diddy as playable characters, but a different antagonist than K. Rool? Add Dixie. K. Rool gets a starring role in an upcoming game? K.r Rool is in. DKCR2 has both Dixie and K. Rool? Add Dixie onto Diddy, completely change Diddy's moveset(I'd imagine it'd be like the DK games, in that you would have a 2-person team like the Ice Climbers, with a swap move like Zelda's transformation), and add K. Rool in on top of that.
But, then again, if Yoshi's Island 3D is coming out for 3DS with Kamek as main villain, and there's no DK game coming out, toss in Kamek. Same kinda thing with Wario, I guess.
Zelda series is good-declone Toon Link, of course, and give him weapons from WW, PH and ST. As for a 5th character, to keep the big 3(Mario, Zelda, Pokemon) equal(Although if anyone is going to be lagging behind character-wise, it would be Zelda), I'm thinking either Tingle(most popular and important character besides the Triforce Trio), Vaati(Wind Magic? Check. Unique Play Style? Check. Villain for Toon Link specifically? Check. Representative of the Four Sword games? Check.), Toon Zelda(Only if Spirit Tracks is till fresh in our mind(Unlikely), or Zelda gets another just as important role in the next Celda game), or Adelle(Or whatever that blue chick is going to be named, the one that is the human form of the Skyward Sword)(If Skyward Sword is still relevant). I guess that covers that.
As for Metroid...Ridley, Ridley, Ridley, Ridley, Ridley, Ridley. That is all.
Nobody new needs to be added from Kirby, but if one is, it'd have to be Gooey or Prince Fluff, but only if they're relevant for the time.
As for Star Fox...KRYSTAL YOU GUYS, DUUUH
I'm also thinking a new F-Zero character would be good, particularly a villain or a woman, especially one that's been there since the beginning-that is to say, either Goroh or Jody Summers. I'm really thinking Goroh though.
As for Pokemon, remove Lucario to make way for Zoroark, and add...well, characters have, in the past, represented 1st, 2nd, and 4th gens, Zoroark would represent 5th, and so I'd think they'd want to add a character to represent Gen 3. Obviously, that means Deoxys, Blaziekn or Gardevoir(Legendary Popular Pokemon, also able to represent the event-only pokemon, Starter Popular Pokemon, with a secondary Fighting Type, which would be good for a fighting game(Why didn't anybody think of this before?), and a...erm...pure, unbridled, fanbase.) Or they could just A:Keep Lucario, B:Add Meowth or C:Bring Back Mewtwo.
Fire Emblem and Mother both could use another character. As for FE, either the most recent new lord, or the most recently remade lord. That is, if they don't have a new protaganist, but Sigurd's game has just been put out for 3DS, sure as hell add Sigurd. Same if it's Eirika or Roy(But that's more unlikely, as the only real reason they're remaking games is to translate them for americans who played Melee and were like 'WTF is this').
As for Mother, there's really only 3 viable options. Either you add, and renew/revamp Ninten, if Mother 1 is being remade, or even rereleased in its original condition. Otherwise, either Masked Man, who has a lot going for him, or, my favorite choice, Porky/Pokey. He'd ride in the Mecha he wore as Heavily Armed Porky(That, or he'd become Doctor Octopus), and would not only act as an antagonist for the Mother series, but would also be a nice connection to tie Ness and Lucas together.
Now, for the characters from a previously unrepresented series.
Now, in both SSBM and SSBB, there has been a pattern regarding retro characters-one retro character that's there simply because he'd work interestingly/well as a character(Ice Climbers, Pit), and one that's smack out of nowhere, and more often than not, represents something(Mr. Game & Watch, ROB).
Now, the first one should be obvious-Little Mac, or, if you want to count him as a current character due to recent appearance in Punch-Out Wii!, then Balloon Fighter.
The second one is less obvious. You could apt for Sherrif, to represent Nintendo's Arcade days. You could choose Diskun, mascot of the Japan-Only Famicom Disc System. You could go with something of some sort to represent the Game Boy, but I think, like the SNES, that could be better represented with an item. For a long time, I was even thinking of Nester, to represent the good 'ol days of Nintendo Power, or even the Virtual Boy(Nester's Funky Bowling, lulz).
So, who do I think would be best? I think Sukapon, from the Japan-only game Joy Mecha Fight, which was Nintendo's first Fighting Game, and, with it's Simple and intuitive play style, consisting of a variety of punches and kicks, as well as 4 special moves(Hm, sound familiar?), acts much like a grandfather of Smash Brothers.
To round it off, I'll add 3 characters from series that are seriously lacking in characters, each one being a major Nintendo franchise, with a total of 0 characters each.
Starting off, Isaac, of course, being a main protagonist in all 3 games in his series. Secondly, the male villager from Animal Crossing, Animal Crossing being to big of a series to ignore. Thirdly, Starfy, from all the Starfy games.
That about round it off, I suppose. Although I've also been thinking about Medusa or Eggplant Wizard from Kid Icarus, or something, anything, for Magical Starsign.

 

[Ievan_Polkka]

You got some good ideas there, although similar versions of that have already been posted a ton of times. You might want to format it better if you want more people to read all of it. My concern with the whole branching thing is that it'd take away from some of what makes Smash Bros. special. There really aren't many other games that attempt to do what it does, and in most genres, like sports, DDR, or racing, it just doesn't seem like the characters would be able to be all that different from each other to where it would be all that different from some other sports or racing game. The roster is mostly what I'd expect to see, except for a few characters like Medusa, Jody, and Eggplant Wizard. I'd prefer to see more new series added but that's just my opinion.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

....There was music from the Game Boy Camera? Or are you saying that the Game Boy Camera had random Nintendo music in other places?

Anyways, while I doubt they'd do that, there probably will be a couple of random ones thrown in there, such as Squirtle's Koopa shell sound effect. Of course, the odds probably would increase for a random song, if all of the songs weren't remixed versions of the main theme. :V

Random Nintendo music or visuals or whatever in various places. Can't remember everything, but I know they had a ton of Mario/Pokemon images and stamps in the albums section, G&W Ball in the games section, and a bit from Sheriff and a song from Mother in the credits. Same deal with Melee's All-Star rest area song being from Kirby Super Star save points.

Basically saying more little references to Nintendo stuffs that

A) aren't dumped into galleries most people usually ignore,
B) aren't forced to fit the context of the gameplay (IE "non-fighting" content), and
C) are simple and subtle enough that they can be appreciated even by anyone unfamiliar with them.


Although Game Boy Camera content in Smash would rule, that game was ridiculous and did everything right.

 

[Fawfulcopter]

You got some good ideas there, although similar versions of that have already been posted a ton of times. You might want to format it better if you want more people to read all of it. My concern with the whole branching thing is that it'd take away from some of what makes Smash Bros. special. There really aren't many other games that attempt to do what it does, and in most genres, like sports, DDR, or racing, it just doesn't seem like the characters would be able to be all that different from each other to where it would be all that different from some other sports or racing game. The roster is mostly what I'd expect to see, except for a few characters like Medusa, Jody, and Eggplant Wizard. I'd prefer to see more new series added but that's just my opinion.

Well, Medusa, Jody and Eggplant Wizard are not actually on my roster. If you're curious, my ideal SSB4 roster, not including DLC or anything, is...
Mario
*Luigi
Peach
Bowser
*Bowser Jr.

Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
*Toon Link
*Vaati

Pikachu
*Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Blaziken
*Zoroark

Fox
*Falco
*Wolf
Krystal

Kirby
*Metaknight
*Dedede

Donkey Kong
*Diddy Kong
*K. Rool

Marth
*Ike
*Sigurd

Ness
*Lucas
*Porky

Samus/Zero Suit Samus
*Ridley

Captain Falcon
*Samurai Goroh

Ice Climbers
*Mr. Game & Watch
Pit
*R.O.B
Little Mac
*Sukapon

Yoshi
Wario
Olimar
Starfy
Villager
*Isaac
*Sonic
*Snake
*Mega Man

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

You know, I played Melee for a while, but then I moved to Brawl, and I actually like it. Most fighting games are offensive (at least, it looks it) and Brawl is very defensive. I think it being different is kinda neat. Then again, I also play MH Tri now, and have played Pokemon forever, and those games are about being offensive with a defensive mindset. (Which is kinda what Brawl is)

Actually, most things I do involve offensive procedures, but with a defensive mindset. (Like I don't care for shields, but I dodge a lot over taking a hit or blocking type thing)

That said, I'm not uber good at Brawl (I'd say Pokemon is my best, though I'm not with Gen V metagame till release), but I play it enough to say it's not a bad game. Everything I read trashes it frequently and relates Melee to it as well. I just don't get it =/

 

[ryuu seika]

My first point-The Smash Brothers Franchise needs to branch out.

This sounds dumb. The name itself prohibits this.

I have added a new Mario character. Who? Well, only the recent upstart who has been in every major Mario title since his first appearance. Bowser Junior was a secondary villain in New Super Mario Bros Wii, Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, as well as being the main villain throughout most of both Mario Sunshine and New Super Mario Bros DS. He was also playable in almost every spinoff game since then, including Mario Golf:Toadstool Tour, Mario Karts Double Dash and Wii, Mario Power Tennis, Super Sluggers and Superstar Baseball, Hoops 3-on-3, Strikers Charged, and Mario and Sonic @ the Olympic Winter Games.

I hate to break it to you but Bowser Jr. hasn't been in every game since his first inclusion and nor is he a "recent upstart" as he was first introduced in Yoshi's Story under the name "Baby Bowser". Also, I think he's a really rubbish haracter TBH but each to his or her own.

As for the next series with a new character, I'm thinking either one of the 2 biggest DK reps not already in-K. Rool or Dixie Kong.

I'm not adverse to K. Rool in any way other than the "he isn't Wiz Pig grumble grumble" one but Dixie Kong is little more than a Diddy clone, already exists as an alternate cotume in Brawl and was never really more than a bad Banjo replacement anyway.

Zelda series.

No great ideas here.

As for Metroid...Ridley, Ridley, Ridley, Ridley, Ridley, Ridley. That is all.

Meta was more fun in SSE, otherwise, I don't know them.

Nobody new needs to be added from Kirby, but if one is, it'd have to be Gooey or Prince Fluff, but only if they're relevant for the time.

Yarn Kirby was suggested who may or may not be a better idea than PF but either way is fine.

As for Star Fox...KRYSTAL YOU GUYS, DUUUH.

Or even up team Starfox and team Starwolf by adding in the only other reccuring SW member, Leon, with Mewtwo-esque tail attacks and teleports mixed in with the SF series classics.

I'm also thinking a new F-Zero character would be good, particularly a villain or a woman, especially one that's been there since the beginning-that is to say, either Goroh or Jody Summers. I'm really thinking Goroh though.

There's nothing fun for them to do though. Phoenix as a high-tech Falcon, Pico with spanner throwing ability or Black Shadow are the only ones I can see working.

As for Pokemon, remove Lucario to make way for Zoroark, and add...well, characters have, in the past, represented 1st, 2nd, and 4th gens, Zoroark would represent 5th, and so I'd think they'd want to add a character to represent Gen 3. Obviously, that means Deoxys, Blaziekn or Gardevoir(Legendary Popular Pokemon, also able to represent the event-only pokemon, Starter Popular Pokemon, with a secondary Fighting Type, which would be good for a fighting game(Why didn't anybody think of this before?), and a...erm...pure, unbridled, fanbase.) Or they could just A:Keep Lucario, B:Add Meowth or C:Bring Back Mewtwo.

Pokemon suck but Mewtwo was a great smash character who needs to make a return and Meowth could actually work if done well. We don't need any total newcomers though, we have too many pokemon via PT and the pokeballs already.

Now, in both SSBM and SSBB, there has been a pattern regarding retro characters-one retro character that's there simply because he'd work interestingly/well as a character(Ice Climbers, Pit), and one that's smack out of nowhere, and more often than not, represents something(Mr. Game & Watch, ROB).

Mr. G&W was added for the shear lols of his comedy moveset as far as I can tell and while the retro aspect seems like another good reason, I don't think he was exactly out of nowhere. Rob, on the other hand, was an absolute nescessity for the story of SSE and so seems to have been added for that reason.
Your ideas seem uninteresting IMO, although balloon fighter might work, inflating his balloon when jumping and during Up B to become super ultra floaty, deflating over time to become no lighter than Zelda and the like, then reinflating on the next jump.

Basically saying more little references to Nintendo stuffs that

A) aren't dumped into galleries most people usually ignore,
B) aren't forced to fit the context of the gameplay (IE "non-fighting" content), and
C) are simple and subtle enough that they can be appreciated even by anyone unfamiliar with them.

Yes to this.

And Finally
@the idea of DLC: Lloyd or I'm not buying.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I see character rosters. Time for a repost i guess.

To add to discussion.

I hate to break it to you but Bowser Jr. hasn't been in every game since his first inclusion and nor is he a "recent upstart" as he was first introduced in Yoshi's Story under the name "Baby Bowser". Also, I think he's a really rubbish haracter TBH but each to his or her own.

He was in both New super Mario Bros Wii and Super Mario Galaxy 2. He is going to be a mainstay for a while.

I'm not adverse to K. Rool in any way other than the "he isn't Wiz Pig grumble grumble" one but Dixie Kong is little more than a Diddy clone, already exists as an alternate cotume in Brawl and was never really more than a bad Banjo replacement anyway.

Dixie was considered for brawl though. I really liked the tag team idea for the both diddy and dixie, but I am usually the only one. I think she has a shot, but only if DLC is avaliable.

No great ideas here.

Tingle is the only real choice. (Sad, I know. but that is just the way it is.

Yarn Kirby was suggested who may or may not be a better idea than PF but either way is fine.

Kirby needs no new reps. Either Yarn Kirby will replace kirby, or he is just put as a sticker.

Or even up team Starfox and team Starwolf by adding in the only other reccuring SW member, Leon, with Mewtwo-esque tail attacks and teleports mixed in with the SF series classics.

No. SF has to many reps. Keep what we have or replace someone.

Pokemon suck but Mewtwo was a great smash character who needs to make a return and Meowth could actually work if done well. We don't need any total newcomers though, we have too many pokemon via PT and the pokeballs already.

DLC is perfect for those two characters.

Yes to this.

And Finally
@the idea of DLC: Lloyd or I'm not buying.

I disagree unless people think Smash bros will have 4 3rd party characters. Then Namco should be represented and the list would be

InGame: Pacman
DLC: Ghost from Pacman
DLC: Lloyd
DLC: DigDug
DLC: Klonoa

 

[Claire Diviner]

Some people often overlook Bowser Jr.'s originaj debut in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island as Baby Bowser. It wasn't Yoshi's Story.

As for Zelda characters, Tingle wouldn't be my choice. I would've gone with Vaati, but that's just me.

 

[DekuBoy]

Ugh...

Baby Bowser is Bowser as a baby.

Bowser Jr is his eighth child.

I hate having to repeat that.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Ugh...

Baby Bowser is Bowser as a baby.

Bowser Jr is his eighth child.

I hate having to repeat that.

I'm very well aware of that. I was talking about design. Yes, character-wise, they are different, but Bowser Jr. is basically a recycled Baby Bowser. Their similarities in appearance is uncanny.

 

[UberMario]

Maybe because they are father and son? >_>

@dag0n, you misspelled "Konami", also, why is Meowth in "party hats"? Developers would have to go out of their way to make him a clone, even more than they did with Ganon. 0_O

@Ryuu: Bowser Jr. has been in plenty of recent games, including NSMB, SMG, NSMBWii, SMG2, the four most recent non-remake platformers.