[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Phantom7]

Has anyone else thought of the possibility of the inclusion of Adam Malkovich from Metroid: Other M? He was the second most important character in the game (behind Samus, of course) and once a general in the Galactic Federation army, is Samus's former superior officer who once again commands Samus's missions on the BOTTLE SHIP in Other M.

 

[Big-Cat]

I've been playing Other M again recently (hard mode is hard) and I thought of a good Final Smash for Ridley:

Mega Flare (Named after Bahamut's attack in the Final Fantasy games)
Ridley flies up (if not already in the air) and shoots out a mega fire ball. This attack has two phases. The first part is the fire ball portion. This is the strongest part of the attack and can K.O. instantly at high percents. The second part is the shockwave once the mega flare lands/hits. This does good horizontal knockback.

This has three angles available: Directly below (like in Other M), 45 degrees downward, and straight forward.

@Phantom7
Manthony Higgs plz.

 

[fenyx4]

Tingle is the only real choice. (Sad, I know. but that is just the way it is.

Kirby needs no new reps. Either Yarn Kirby will replace kirby, or he is just put as a sticker.

No. SF has to many reps. Keep what we have or replace someone.

Responses:

1. You still have the viable Wolf Link+Midna combination, which would give us another quadrupedal fighter and another tag team. The only problem is that Twilight Princess is slowly becoming old news , but it's still possible for them to resurge (especially since Eiji Aonuma did not rule out the possibility of Midna returning in future Zelda installments). Otherwise, Vaati and Zant seem to be the only other likely options, unless the upcoming Skyward Sword or future Legend of Zelda games introduce other feasible fighters. IMO, Tingle should stay as an Assist Trophy.

2. I see no problem with "regular" Kirby and Yarn Kirby/Prince Fluff coexisting. One more "rep" wouldn't hurt.... I don't see any other Kirby characters becoming viable anyway anytime soon, unless the proposed Kirby 3DS/Wii? introduces additional characters to the Kirby universe...

3. Seriously? If you're not counting the proposed Krystal and Leon additions, Pokemon has way more than StarFox does. And technically, the Super Mario series leaves both of them in the dust, having at least five reps in one SSB installment (Mario, Dr. Mario, Peach, Bowser, and Luigi), not counting all of the sub-series it has (Yoshi, Donkey Kong, and Wario, totaling four combatants altogether). And yet I still want Paper Mario in SSB4; Bowser Jr. would just be an extra bonus.

Personally, I think the character limit should be upped some. Eventually, some series are going to overshadow other series slightly. I mean, I don't think the R.O.B., Game and Watch, and Ice Climber universes are gaining additional fighters anytime soon...

I've been playing Other M again recently (hard mode is hard) and I thought of a good Final Smash for Ridley:

Mega Flare (Named after Bahamut's attack in the Final Fantasy games)
Ridley flies up (if not already in the air) and shoots out a mega fire ball. This attack has two phases. The first part is the fire ball portion. This is the strongest part of the attack and can K.O. instantly at high percents. The second part is the shockwave once the mega flare lands/hits. This does good horizontal knockback.

This has three angles available: Directly below (like in Other M), 45 degrees downward, and straight forward.

Interesting...wish I could see a visual demo, though... The only other Final Smash I had for Ridley was a "Meta Ridley" transformation...

 

[Fawfulcopter]

This sounds dumb. The name itself prohibits this.
They could alter the second word, couldn't they? And besides, especially for the Racing Game idea, why not branch out and maybe give characters that couldn't do **** in the battlefield(Daisy, maybe even anybody from F-Zero besides Captain Falcon and Samurai Goroh) a chance to be playable in a crossover game?


I hate to break it to you but Bowser Jr. hasn't been in every game since his first inclusion and nor is he a "recent upstart" as he was first introduced in Yoshi's Story under the name "Baby Bowser". Also, I think he's a really rubbish character TBH but each to his or her own.
Hahahaha. Yeah, lol no. You had really better be joking with this, because Baby Bowser is not, and has never been, Bowser Jr. Bowser Jr. is Bowser's son, supposedly next in line for the title of King of Koopas, and made his first appearance in Mario Sunshine, and has been in every major platformer since, as well as being a star in most of the spinoff titles since. Baby Bowser, meanwhile, lives up to his name, as he is no more that Bowser, as he was when he was a baby. He made his first appearance in Yoshi's Island, not Yoshi's Story, as you said. And as for him being a rubbish character-wait, Rubbish? Are you british or something? Anyway, yeah, to each his own.


I'm not adverse to K. Rool in any way other than the "he isn't Wiz Pig grumble grumble" one but Dixie Kong is little more than a Diddy clone, already exists as an alternate cotume in Brawl and was never really more than a bad Banjo replacement anyway.
Right, because a female chimpanzee with a long Ponytail that allows her to fly, got her own game, and is the most important character to the Donkey Kong series outside of DK and Diddy, and she's on about equal level with THE MAIN VILLAIN OF ALL THREE GOD**** GAMES.
Also, since when is she an alternate costume in Brawl? I mean, even if when you say costume you mean color(Or should that be colour?), the closest color to Dixie is a Pink Hat and shirt.

is not the same as

. That should be obvious.
If what your asking for is a movepool that will instantly differentiate her from Diddy, here you go...
Her A moves would consist mostly of punches, kicks, and attacks using her large prominent ponytail. Her dash move would be a twirl, using her ponytail to cause damage. She would have 2 jumps, but then she would be able to hover using her ponytail as a helicopter, allowing her to get safely back to land by traversing horizontal distances as well as vertical. Due to this, she would be mostly an aerial character, and her air attacks will reflect that. Her Side Special would be Bubblegum, which shew blew bubbles with when you left her idle in Donkey Kong Country 2 & 3. She blows a bubble, which you can charge to increase size, and when you release the button, it will burst, damaging opponents. In this manner, it will have an odd trajectory for a projectile, as not only will the main popping do damage, but the bits of gum that fly at high speeds in front of her also do damage.
Her Up B should be obvious-the ponytail copter, with which she spins rapidly, which can do some good combo damage, but could also, when used in midair, elevate her upwards, similarly to Link's Up B. Her Neutral B could be the Feather Bow, borrowed from her sister Tiny Kong. Unlike Diddy's Peanut Popgun, Dixie's Feather Bow could shoot repeatedly, like Fox's blaster. As for her Down B...well, more likely than not, that'd be her switching places with Diddy Kong.



No great ideas here.



Meta was more fun in SSE, otherwise, I don't know them.
...What?



Yarn Kirby was suggested who may or may not be a better idea than PF but either way is fine.



Or even up team Starfox and team Starwolf by adding in the only other reccuring SW member, Leon, with Mewtwo-esque tail attacks and teleports mixed in with the SF series classics.
Right, but while Leon is Falco's rival, and a minor villain, Krystal is Fox's love interest, the only major female in the series, has been both a hero and a villain, uses a very unique play style, and one of the most wanted characters(By fur***s) for Smash brothers. In fact, I think she was the second most wanted character that didn't get in(First is Geno).


There's nothing fun for them to do though. Phoenix as a high-tech Falcon, Pico with spanner throwing ability or Black Shadow are the only ones I can see working.
Samurai Goroh has a Katana, which he could use for some very interesting sword attacks, including having the unique playstyle of a katana, which is very different from a regular sword. In addition, he's been in the series from the beginning, and has been Captain Falcon's rival since the beginning. That, coupled with sheer popularity, almost garuntees him a spot, if there's another F-Zero character.


Pokemon suck but Mewtwo was a great smash character who needs to make a return and Meowth could actually work if done well. We don't need any total newcomers though, we have too many pokemon via PT and the pokeballs already.
Well, to each his own I guess. I am a huge fan of pokemon myself. Mewtwo was pretty good in Melee, and I would wish him a return if there weren't so many more deserving characters. I believe that there should be a representative from every set of new pokemon added with a new couple of games. In both Brawl and Melee, there were 3 of these, and the only other character was a rep from the newest generation. As such, there will almost certainly be a character to represent the newest games, which, at the moment, are Pokemon Black and White. And who better to represent Black and White than the popular, humanoid, first revealed pokemon who already has his own move, Zoroark, known to many as the Lucario of Black/White. I also believe that since gen 2 was new in Melee and had a rep, and Gen 4 was new in Brawl and had a rep, they should give a chance to the games they skipped over, that is, Ruby/Sapphire. I believe the most important and popular choices for this are Blaziken and Deoxys.
As for the don't need any newcomers thing, PT is only one character, meant to be used as all 3 pokemon, and the pokeballs are items. That's like saying 'We don't need to add any more characters, there's already all of the assist trophies!



Mr. G&W was added for the shear lols of his comedy moveset as far as I can tell and while the retro aspect seems like another good reason, I don't think he was exactly out of nowhere. Rob, on the other hand, was an absolute nescessity for the story of SSE and so seems to have been added for that reason.
Your ideas seem uninteresting IMO, although balloon fighter might work, inflating his balloon when jumping and during Up B to become super ultra floaty, deflating over time to become no lighter than Zelda and the like, then reinflating on the next jump.
Well, for the first one, yes, Game and Watch is Melee's joke character(To be clear, the 3 joke characters are Jigglypuff, Mr. Game and Watch, and Wario, as far as I can discern, and all 3 of those are great characters.


Yes to this.

And Finally
@the idea of DLC: Lloyd or I'm not buying.

As for DLC, I was thinking that there would not be any Namco characters, BUT, if there were, Lloyd could very well be DLC. If there were a Namco character, it would be either Pac-Man, due to being mascot, Klonoa, due to just because, or somebody from Soul Calibur. Why? Well, in SC2, they added Link as a character. Why not return the favor? In addition, Soul Calibur is a fighting series, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

 

[Big-Cat]

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if DLC characters in fighters becomes more common, but I think it's something very dangerous if done wrong.

With BlazBlue, you got Makoto, Valkenhayn, and Platinum as DLC, but these characters were made long after the game was made so they weren't something you had to pay to unlock, they weren't on the disc itself. Likewise, Street Fighter is likely to get two characters at least for the arcade edition path (assuming we get it) and this is something that the developer's weren't thinking at the time of development.

If Smash does do this, they need to release the characters some time after the game has been released along with a balance patch.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Has anyone else thought of the possibility of the inclusion of Adam Malkovich from Metroid: Other M? He was the second most important character in the game (behind Samus, of course) and once a general in the Galactic Federation army, is Samus's former superior officer who once again commands Samus's missions on the BOTTLE SHIP in Other M.

He would be an interesting addition. Other M has revealed enough of his character to warrant his appearance in Smash. However, when it comes to Metroid, I would think more along the lines of one of the hunters from Metroid Prime: Hunters - namely, Sylux. Still, I think either character's viable.

 

[DekuBoy]

I'm very well aware of that. I was talking about design. Yes, character-wise, they are different, but Bowser Jr. is basically a recycled Baby Bowser. Their similarities in appearance is uncanny.

Sorry, but I wasn't referring to you. There was a guy further up the page saying it.

 

[ElPanandero]

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if DLC characters in fighters becomes more common, but I think it's something very dangerous if done wrong.

With BlazBlue, you got Makoto, Valkenhayn, and Platinum as DLC, but these characters were made long after the game was made so they weren't something you had to pay to unlock, they weren't on the disc itself. Likewise, Street Fighter is likely to get two characters at least for the arcade edition path (assuming we get it) and this is something that the developer's weren't thinking at the time of development.

If Smash does do this, they need to release the characters some time after the game has been released along with a balance patch.

Ha, Patches by nintendo? Silly Kuma, you live in a land of logic and reason. Come back to the nonsensical world of Nintendo.

 

[Big-Cat]

Ha, Patches by nintendo? Silly Kuma, you live in a land of logic and reason. Come back to the nonsensical world of Nintendo.

Believe me, I believe Nintendo's lack of action on this kind of thing is asinine. I mean, what kind of gaming company asks you to send you your copy of Other M, VIA SNAIL MAIL, to have a glitch removed? We live in an age where this shouldn't be happening other than as a last resort.

I really hope the 3DS and Wii2 fix up a lot of these problems.

 

[Phantom7]

I've been playing Other M again recently (hard mode is hard) and I thought of a good Final Smash for Ridley:

Mega Flare (Named after Bahamut's attack in the Final Fantasy games)
Ridley flies up (if not already in the air) and shoots out a mega fire ball. This attack has two phases. The first part is the fire ball portion. This is the strongest part of the attack and can K.O. instantly at high percents. The second part is the shockwave once the mega flare lands/hits. This does good horizontal knockback.

This has three angles available: Directly below (like in Other M), 45 degrees downward, and straight forward.

@Phantom7
Manthony Higgs plz.

The Ridley fight in Other M really presents a lot of options for Ridley's moves. But I'm afraid he'll never make it as a character in Smash Bros. because he's too big.

Adam was actually a more important character than Anthony and would be a better representative of Metroid, but I'm sure if Anthony somehow made it in, everyone would remember him.

 

[fenyx4]

The Ridley fight in Other M really presents a lot of options for Ridley's moves. But I'm afraid he'll never make it as a character in Smash Bros. because he's too big.

WTF?! If Kirby (8 inches tall), Captain Olimar (0.75 inches tall), and Bowser (ESPECIALLY Bowser, a colossus!) can be resized for Smash Bros., Ridley can too.

Once again, fighter size does not matter in Super Smash Brothers!!!

Also, Awesome Face Kirby for SSB4!

 

[Phantom7]

The problem is that Sakurai might consider him too large. Ridley's inclusion as a boss in Brawl shows Sakurai's depiction of what Ridley's size should be - which is incredibly large. It would be inconsistent to have Ridley that size in Brawl but have him scaled down to about the size of Bowser in SSB4.

 

[Big-Cat]

There's still that old post-Brawl interview. Sakurai said they didn't even try making him a playable character. He said that if Ridley was in, he'd be a bit slow which is fine considering that he'd likely be the largest character and his knife tail, projectiles, and flight present him a lot of zoning and defensive options. Still, in Other M, I'd say he's roughly two to three times as big as Samus is in her power suit so he might not be that slow.

IMO, I can see him being T.Hawk-ish size (meaning the biggest character, but not freaking huge). I can also see him being one of the hardest characters to balance because of his potential properties.

 

[Phantom7]

I don't think Ridley's chances are impossible, just questionable, considering Sakurai's opinion on the matter. Here are some pros and cons defending Ridley's chances of inclusion and exclusion.

Pros:
+Excellent representative of Metroid.
+Popular among SSB fans.
+Great moveset potential.

Cons:
-Inconsistency in size with SSBB and Sakurai's depiction of his size.
-Difficult to balance.

Overall, I think the pros weight out the cons, but as always, it's all up to Sakurai. And in this case, Sakurai may not approve based on the little evidence that we have.

 

[fenyx4]

The problem is that Sakurai might consider him too large. Ridley's inclusion as a boss in Brawl shows Sakurai's depiction of what Ridley's size should be - which is incredibly large. It would be inconsistent to have Ridley that size in Brawl but have him scaled down to about the size of Bowser in SSB4.

As for "consistency", I think SSB64 has thrown that out the window. For instance: Compare Pikachu's size relative to a Poke Ball during the intro and during gameplay. Inconsistent. In the same game.

 

[Phantom7]

As for "consistency", I think SSB64 has thrown that out the window. For instance: Compare Pikachu's size relative to a Poke Ball during the intro and during gameplay. Inconsistent. In the same game.

That is a much less noticeable example. I haven't heard a single complaint about that, but if Ridley's size had to be inconsistent between two Smash Bros. games, Sakurai may not agree to his inclusion. Because it is so trivial, the developers simply didn't bother to spend time fixing that, but the presence of a playable Ridley in SSB4 is almost totally dependent on Sakurai's depiction of Ridley's size and whether inconsistency in Ridley's size between games matters.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with Ridley's inclusion. Size-wise, he can be scaled to Bowser's size, maybe a little bigger. Seeing his frame, he can be one of the lighter of the heavyweights. His wings would allow multiple jumps in the same fashion as Charizard or Pit. Any attack involving his tail can deal high knockback when sweetspotted at the sword-like tip. Honestly, there's so many options that would warrant Ridley's inclusion. The size thing should be an afterthought. If memory serves me well, his size compared to Samus in Melee's intro wasn't as extreme as Brawl's.

 

[Phantom7]

Then again, Sakurai may not care about consistency between the games, considering the drastic change in graphic style between Melee and Brawl (Going from colorful and futuristic-looking to less color and more smooth-white looking), plus the changes in styles of characters like Fox, Link (any of the Zelda characters, for that matter), or Bowser.

But, that doesn't change the possibility of Sakurai thinking Ridley is just too big in general.

 

[ElPanandero]

As for "consistency", I think SSB64 has thrown that out the window. For instance: Compare Pikachu's size relative to a Poke Ball during the intro and during gameplay. Inconsistent. In the same game.

While I won't advocate for Ridley's exclusion, all of the size inconsistencies can be logically explained, outside of Ridley.

Pikachu-Pokemon are like animals, and like animals are prone to mutations, of which can be size. I doubt every single Pikachu in the entire pokemon world is limited to the exact size listed in the pokedex. to verify this see fishing contest/minigames in the later generations. Any fished pokemon can be of a great range of weights, and I'm assuming that wasn't due to some internal mass equation.

Olimar- In Olimar's game, he finds a Red mushroom which the spaceship robot thing says has the power to excel one's growth beyond normal measures. Olimar eats mushroom and bam, he's in.

Bowser- Bowser has had fluctuating sizes since his creation, but most, if not all, of the 8-bit and 16-bit Bowsers were proportional to the Mario/Bowser of Smash.

None of these examples have anything to do with why these characters are in smash, however. These characters are in becuase Sakurai saw them fit to be. He does not care about size only, but other things. Ridley is not in because he is too big, he's not in because scaling him down would make him look, act, play and feel awkward as hell, plus it's be an unnessecary nightmare in programming.

I'm calling it now: If Ridley is in Smash 4 he WILL be the new Metaknight.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I'm calling it now: If Ridley is in Smash 4 he WILL be the new Metaknight.

Hopefully in a few years you can honor my bet that he'll be the new Ganon instead.


And I'm kind of surprised people still think Ridley would be some sort of programming nightmare or that size somehow plays into this. Animating his tail and wings are unquestionably the only "difficult" aspect in making him work, but unless the modeling team is a bunch of college kids working for scraps of food, there shouldn't be any problem.

The only thing stopping Ridley would be an unwillingness to even try. In fact, I vow right here and now that if Sakurai says "we couldn't get Ridley to work no matter how hard we tried" when SSB4 comes out, I will slam my nuts in a car door repeatedly until gangrene sets in on what's left.

 

[DekuBoy]

I kinda want to know how that turns out for you, but I really want Ridley in.

His wings couldn't be that hard to animate. Charizard, Pit and Metaknight all have wings and they're fine. Is it the size of the wings you're referring to?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Years of Oregon Trail have prepared me for any gangrene-related developments.

But anyway, it's not really the animation itself so much as potential hitbox (more for the wings) and model clipping (more for the tail) issues from however they animate the rest of his body.

I say "difficult" with sarcasti-quotes because A) he's got a whole Z-axis to stretch his junk, B) his wings aren't so big that he'll have Giga Bowser hitboxes even fully extended, and C) they'll probably have a nicer physics engine that handles clipping issues better.

So yeah, as long as you have some basic level of faith in the designers, no problem.

 

[DekuBoy]

Well the clipping only matters in the pause mode, cause if you're playing you don't mind small things like that. Hmmm, I suppose he could have his wings kinda folded when he's not flying/jumping.

I have lots of faith in the designers to make this possible, it's just that their character priorities are quite odd. Snake? Two Links? Taking out Mewtwo? I just hope they choose him.

 

[Phantom7]

I don't think programming Ridley is nearly as much of a problem as balancing him.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Deku: Designers aren't choosing who gets in or not, that's the director.

If you love how the characters look and move, you probably have some faith in them to do Ridley justice.

 

[Phantom7]

Deku Boy, I fail to undertand why you consider Snake as one of Brawl's odd character choices.

 

[DekuBoy]

Oh, don't get me wrong I love Snake, but there are a crapload of Nintendo characters I would've preferred to get in (and who probably deserved it more) like Little Mac, Ridley and K.Rool.

 

[ryuu seika]

Snake doesn't fit smash IMO. He plays ok though.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Guys, the point is that Snake was a surprise "WTF OMG!!1!" addition to Brawl. Few - if not, no one - saw him coming. His addition breaks the tradition of having only characters of the Nintendo paradigm join a Smash Bros. game. In this sense, Nintendo refers to non-Nintendo characters as "guests". According to Sakurai, Kojima wanted Snake to be included in Melee, but was cut for time, thus his inclusion in Brawl. Nintendo capitalized on Snake's inclusion with a poll for people to send in who they want to be included in Brawl, and surprise surprise, Sonic became the most requested character and was thus included (albeit a bit late).

I would also like to add that the colonel tells Snake in his Smash taunt against Mario "This is a once-in-a-lifetime chance, Snake". This may indicate that Brawl may (sadly) be Snake's only Smash Bros. appearance (and by extension, Sonic's) and Nintendo will not include anymore guest characters in subsequent Smash games, or if Nintendo does continue with the guest character inclusions they will either A: replace Snake and Sonic for other guests, or B: keep Snake and Sonic whilst further expanding the third-party VIP roster. In the end, no one really knows what the future of Smash Bros. (assuming there is one) will hold, and if Snake and Sonic's inclusion will have any significant impact on said future.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Guys, the point is that Snake was a surprise "WTF OMG!!1!" addition to Brawl. Few - if not, no one - saw him coming. His addition breaks the tradition of having only characters of the Nintendo paradigm join a Smash Bros. game. In this sense, Nintendo refers to non-Nintendo characters as "guests". According to Sakurai, Kojima wanted Snake to be included in Melee, but was cut for time, thus his inclusion in Brawl. Nintendo capitalized on Snake's inclusion with a poll for people to send in who they want to be included in Brawl, and surprise surprise, Sonic became the most requested character and was thus included (albeit a bit late).

I would also like to add that the colonel tells Snake in his Smash taunt against Mario "This is a once-in-a-lifetime chance, Snake". This may indicate that Brawl may (sadly) be Snake's only Smash Bros. appearance (and by extension, Sonic's) and Nintendo will not include anymore guest characters in subsequent Smash games, or if Nintendo does continue with the guest character inclusions they will either A: replace Snake and Sonic for other guests, or B: keep Snake and Sonic whilst further expanding the third-party VIP roster. In the end, no one really knows what the future of Smash Bros. (assuming there is one) will hold, and if Snake and Sonic's inclusion will have any significant impact on said future.

I thought snakes smash was just referencing that this might be the last game for smash. The creator keeps trying to end the series.

Now, we all know that is not true. There will be another smash game, but the dialogue may just be suggesting that brawl was intended to be the end.

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't think Sakurai tries to end the series with each one. He just treats each one as if it's the last (in which case he failed HARD with Brawl).

I think the whole "once in a lifetime" thing is just for hype and whatnot. I wouldn't look too much into this kind of thing. I can't see why Snake and especially Sonic wouldn't return in the next game aside from bad blood between the companies and copyrights.

 

[fenyx4]

Guys, the point is that Snake was a surprise "WTF OMG!!1!" addition to Brawl. Few - if not, no one - saw him coming. His addition breaks the tradition of having only characters of the Nintendo paradigm join a Smash Bros. game. In this sense, Nintendo refers to non-Nintendo characters as "guests". According to Sakurai, Kojima wanted Snake to be included in Melee, but was cut for time, thus his inclusion in Brawl. Nintendo capitalized on Snake's inclusion with a poll for people to send in who they want to be included in Brawl, and surprise surprise, Sonic became the most requested character and was thus included (albeit a bit late).

I would also like to add that the colonel tells Snake in his Smash taunt against Mario "This is a once-in-a-lifetime chance, Snake". This may indicate that Brawl may (sadly) be Snake's only Smash Bros. appearance (and by extension, Sonic's) and Nintendo will not include anymore guest characters in subsequent Smash games, or if Nintendo does continue with the guest character inclusions they will either A: replace Snake and Sonic for other guests, or B: keep Snake and Sonic whilst further expanding the third-party VIP roster. In the end, no one really knows what the future of Smash Bros. (assuming there is one) will hold, and if Snake and Sonic's inclusion will have any significant impact on said future.

I agree about Solid Snake's status as a "WTF?!" character in Smash Bros. Brawl. Had it not been for the announcements on the DOJO!! and the preview on the back of the SSBB box, unlocking him would be a surprise indeed, similar to discovering Captain Falcon or Ness in Super Smash Brothers 64.

That "once-in-a-lifetime chance" mention has me worried a bit. Personally, I think it would be counter-productive to axe Snake and Sonic altogether from future rosters. Sonic has staying power, due to a sizable amount of games in the Sonic franchise and Sonic's maintained presence in the videogaming world. Snake, however, IIRC, has been featured in his potentially last game - Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. So I fear his series (Metal Gear Solid) may start to become a transient series - as in, one that doesn't preserve a main character across games, such as Final Fantasy or Fire Emblem. It would be quite a shame, because I think his moveset has some of the most innovations (having physical tilts yet using projectile-based Smash attacks was very disorienting at first, but I gradually grew to love the concept). I would keep Snake and Sonic in all subsequent Smash games, regardless of their reappearances in later games of their own series. I see no harm in doing so - even if Snake's presence is slightly dated, it still gives the MGS series exposure.

I mean, Marth's own tale is apparently over, and he was featured in Smash Bros. a second time (which is partly due to the fact that his game was the first in the series and paved the way for his "successors" like Roy and Ike). Plus, it would be very strange to have two whole universes with established content axed from the Smash series... Ugh, this is why I loathe the concept of "guest characters" in fighting games - if they're in one game, players will likely want them in subsequent games, especially if they come with unique, innovative, and refreshing movesets...

 

[Big-Cat]

The thing with the guest fighters in other games (i.e. Link in Soul Caliber 2) is that other fighting games have some kind of storyline and including those guest fighters into the canon would very likely muck things up (unless said character becomes a canon immigrant).

And why are we still up on the whole "dated character" thing or not? It's a concept that fans made up that in no way has any official backing.

 

[ElPanandero]

I don't think Sakurai tries to end the series with each one. He just treats each one as if it's the last (in which case he failed HARD with Brawl).

I think the whole "once in a lifetime" thing is just for hype and whatnot. I wouldn't look too much into this kind of thing. I can't see why Snake and especially Sonic wouldn't return in the next game aside from bad blood between the companies and copyrights.

Seriously guys, Sakurai's no Mark Twain...it was just some banter...not everything has a huge underlying sub-context to it.

 

[Pieman0920]

I don't think Sakurai tries to end the series with each one. He just treats each one as if it's the last (in which case he failed HARD with Brawl).

Huh? I don't get this. :V

Anyways, I believe that enough time has past to start up a new music list considering the new releases between the last one and this one, though I'm not in any position at this moment and time to do anything, I will have time in a few hours, I suppose. But three things come to mind that seem a bit puzzling. First off is what to do with Galaxy 2 music, considering the fact that there's so many potential tracks for a stage based around it, especially if proper representation is given to Galaxy 1 as well. Thus I can't help but wonder if two Galaxy stages would be best to hold it all. Second off is that for a future Metroid stage consideration, that while I believe that Sector 1 from Other M would work fine, the music for the game was absent for the most part, but I have to put a bit more research into that. Lastly, I think I have to consider Epic Yarn for a new stage, but as it stands, I haven't actually played the game. Thus I'm not sure of a location that would be good. Next off considering Epic Yarn, I wonder if there's any particularly good tracks that aren't relaxed and laid back. I suppose its fine to have 2 or 3 in that vein, but there has to be something that's a bit more peppy. (Is there something in there? I haven't really heard every track or anything like that)

 

[Big-Cat]

Huh? I don't get this. :V

I guess you can say that he wants to go all out on each one so that if it does end up being the last one, the series ends on a good note. Anyway, Sakurai has no say when and where the series finishes; that's up to Nintendo's higher-ups.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Always glad for music discussion, especially if it detracts from people overthinking or complaining.

First off is what to do with Galaxy 2 music, considering the fact that there's so many potential tracks for a stage based around it, especially if proper representation is given to Galaxy 1 as well. Thus I can't help but wonder if two Galaxy stages would be best to hold it all.

Few things:

-- Galaxy 1+2 (or any Wii title) tracks doesn't require a rearrangement, so they can go nuts with adding these
-- Presumably, there'd be more songs per stage on average and probably a higher maximum; also consider Galaxy tracks on other Mario stages, especially past stages
-- The pool for Galaxy songs isn't that big if you factor in old songs (Bowser's Road), multiple versions of the same song (Gusty Garden), or "unfitting" songs (snow/beach/etc. themes); can probably work a few of them into a medley or two, especially if they feel like busting out the orchestra again
-- Galaxy music isn't special, gonna miss a few regardless, deal with it, etc.

Second off is that for a future Metroid stage consideration, that while I believe that Sector 1 from Other M would work fine, the music for the game was absent for the most part, but I have to put a bit more research into that.

There aren't too many stages with even half of its playlist originating from the same game (including remixes), so it's probably not too big of a deal. Plus Metroid has tons of tracks waiting to be used in Smash anyway.

[convenience link]

Lastly, I think I have to consider Epic Yarn for a new stage, but as it stands, I haven't actually played the game. Thus I'm not sure of a location that would be good. Next off considering Epic Yarn, I wonder if there's any particularly good tracks that aren't relaxed and laid back. I suppose its fine to have 2 or 3 in that vein, but there has to be something that's a bit more peppy. (Is there something in there? I haven't really heard every track or anything like that)

Boss themes? I won't be playing this game until sometime after Christmas but I know there's a lot of remixes in there. Worst case scenario is that it's the same deal as an Other M stage, lots of waiting-to-be-used older goodies here too.

 

[Claire Diviner]

A Galaxy-based stage? I can only begin to imagine how it would look and function, but you pair that with some of the tracks from the game, and it's bound to be amazing.

For Metroid, there really isn't much in the way of music from Other M, though two tracks that come to mind are the big boss battles and the music heard when exploring the entrance to Sector Zero for the first time. Whatever the case, there are tons of music from other Metroid titles that I'd like to hear remixes for in a Smash Bros. game, including:

SR388 main theme (Metroid 2)
Lower Norfair (Super Metroid)
Brinstar (Super Metroid)
Crateria (Outside) (Super Metroid)
Sector Zero (Metroid: Other M)
Battle with Serris (Metroid Fusion)

That's about all I can immediately think of for tracks. As far as Metroid stages, well I'd like to add that I was so ecstatic when I found out Norfair was gonna be in Brawl, and I'm still happy about it. Anywho, back to the stages:

Tourian (Super Metroid)
Sector 3 (Metroid: Other M)
SR388 (Metroid 2)
Maridia (Super Metroid)
Lower Norfair (Super Metroid)
Wrecked Ship (Super Metroid)
Brinstar (Super Metroid)
Sector 6: NOC (Metroid Fusion)
Oubliette (Metroid Prime Hunters)

There, that should cover some Metroid stages. Of course, this is just Metroid alone. We've yet to touch upon the vast majority of other games. I mean, if Nintendo decided that Hanenbow and Pictochat were good enough to be stages, then we can throw in any ideas we have and call them valid, really.

 

[Pieman0920]

Few things:

-- Galaxy 1+2 (or any Wii title) tracks doesn't require a rearrangement, so they can go nuts with adding these
-- Presumably, there'd be more songs per stage on average and probably a higher maximum; also consider Galaxy tracks on other Mario stages, especially past stages
-- The pool for Galaxy songs isn't that big if you factor in old songs (Bowser's Road), multiple versions of the same song (Gusty Garden), or "unfitting" songs (snow/beach/etc. themes); can probably work a few of them into a medley or two, especially if they feel like busting out the orchestra again
-- Galaxy music isn't special, gonna miss a few regardless, deal with it, etc.

I suppose the answer to my major problem is in the final point here, but I just really like the music between these games. When making a music list prior to Galaxy 2's release though, I came into the problem that there were too many tracks that I wanted and that it was starting to get a bit large, even though I was taking out Bowser tracks and putting them into a Bowser stage, and doing similar things here and there. (Looking at my old list, I do have about four or so non-remixed galaxy songs showing up in non-galaxy places.) There are a few that come to mind that would have similar treatment, like Yoshi Star Galaxy which would probably fit in perfectly with whatever Yoshi Stage that Smash 4 gets. One track that I really want in and I'm not quite sure if it would work well with the Galaxy stage I have in mind (Starship Mario) is Melty Monster....but it could probably work there.

Actually, while I've been typing this post, I've been thinking about trying to list all the tracks that I'd want in, and while there are a lot, I can see that a few of them aren't really "must haves" like Bowser Jr's Fort, or Fleet Glide Galaxy, though I'd still like it if they got in.

There aren't too many stages with even half of its playlist originating from the same game (including remixes), so it's probably not too big of a deal. Plus Metroid has tons of tracks waiting to be used in Smash anyway.

[convenience link]

Yeah, that's right. I had a place holder for a Metroid stage prior to Other M showing up, and that was generally filled with unused Metroid series music that didn't originate in Prime. (Though there were a few things from Prime that did sneak in due to tone, since my Prime stage was Skytown.)

Anyways, reviewing over things, there seems to be a good deal of battle music, which for the most part seems like it could fit, buuuut....its not all that distinct. Kind of hard to pick out one battle theme from another, y'know? Maybe just have the theme for the final/secret bosses (they have the same theme) and maybe just throw in that Ridley remix.

Boss themes? I won't be playing this game until sometime after Christmas but I know there's a lot of remixes in there. Worst case scenario is that it's the same deal as an Other M stage, lots of waiting-to-be-used older goodies here too.

Eh, the Kirby series does have some unused tracks that would be good, but I think they may have fewer than most other series. But anyways, its a bit difficult to get through Epic Yarn's soundtrack on youtube and try to avoid remixes at the same time...but there are good tracks here...just mostly all of them are laid back.

 

[UberMario]

I think that the original tracks in SSB4 should outnumber the remixes, after all, if the disc size gets larger for the next system, would there really be a reason not to have 400+ of their own songs taken from the original audio? After all, Brawl had 267 (258 that are accessible in the Sound Test, 9 that are not) songs, in Brawl, of which 167 of them were remixes or medleys. Obviously, it's better to have more remixes than not, but still, it's a bit strange that the amount of songs taken straight from their "home" games is lower.