[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[OmegaGod]

remove gay kirby

 

[Rychu]

Kirby doesnt like that Idea

 

[Grim Tuesday]

What do people think of having more ground-based combos in the next Smash game?

Like, take Falcon for example. His bread & butter combos all revolve around SHFFL'd nairs, uairs and fairs.

In my opinion it would be cool if in the next game, you could actually combo across Final Destination or whatever stage without leaving the ground once.

Only thing I can think of that is sort-of like this is Fox's wave-shining.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think the best way of doing this would be revolver actions like in Marvel and Guilty Gear. The only problem is that Smash has only one normal attack button. I would love to see more ground based combos though.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Eh, the Kirby series does have some unused tracks that would be good, but I think they may have fewer than most other series. But anyways, its a bit difficult to get through Epic Yarn's soundtrack on youtube and try to avoid remixes at the same time...but there are good tracks here...just mostly all of them are laid back.

Only someone who never played a Kirby game would say that!

I'm not too big on Galaxy or Other M music, so aside from tracks from other games nothing comes to mind. You wanna post some playlists?

I think that the original tracks in SSB4 should outnumber the remixes, after all, if the disc size gets larger for the next system, would there really be a reason not to have 400+ of their own songs taken from the original audio? After all, Brawl had 267 (258 that are accessible in the Sound Test, 9 that are not) songs, in Brawl, of which 167 of them were remixes or medleys. Obviously, it's better to have more remixes than not, but still, it's a bit strange that the amount of songs taken straight from their "home" games is lower.

I'm assuming they wanted to show off the arranged stuff more. And yeah, more originals sounds right, they can only get so many composers.

Although it's interesting that they didn't get anyone outside of Japan, would be pretty neat to see some David Wise arrangements next time.

 

[Phantom7]

I thought Galaxy 2 and Other M had incredible music.

Sky Station Galaxy Music - Galaxy 2

Sector 1 Music - Other M

 

[Claire Diviner]

I thought Galaxy 2 and Other M had incredible music.

Sky Station Galaxy Music - Galaxy 2

Sector 1 Music - Other M

I dunno about Sector 1's music. Granted it sounds nice (gives it that dark and gloomy feel that reminds me of Parasite Eve), I don't really see it as music I can really figh... Actually, I take that back: if Nintendo can throw in Ai no Uta, Wii Sports, and other songs that are just "why the hell?", then Sector 1 from Other M will be a fine addition to the next Smash Bros..

Talking about this, one game - though esoteric - they should bring into Smash Bros. is Crystalis. I know I mentioned this before, but they should use either the male protagonist or Mesia as playable characters, or at the very least as Assist Trophies in the same vein as Saki and Isaac.

For those who have never heard of/played Crystalis, it is an NES RPG game in a style seen in the Mana series of games that was originally by SNK. Also, the music was pretty amazing as well. Then, years later, Nintendo bought the rights to the game. They released a remake for the Gameboy Color. Aside from the in-game NES sprites, it was a vastly different game in terms of storyline and music. It was actually quite horrible compared to the original. The point, however, is that Nintendo still has rights to the game (including the NES version), which means they can use elements from said original and translate them into Smash Bros., be it characters, a stage(s), music, or whatever. Just a thought.

 

[ryuu seika]

IMO if SMG2 music is in then we need Starship Mario as a stage, complete with weird gravity and the ability to run upside down and get stuck on (not up) his nose.

 

[UberMario]

I don't know how well that would work, but it definitely sounds interesting. Maybe it could be designed like a HUGE Brinstar Depths, where the edges are walkoffs due to the size?

 

[Phantom7]

It wouldn't work because the goal of Smash Bros. is to knock the opponent off the arena, and having gravity changes would interfere with that. (Also, the stage would immediately be made illegal in tourneys.) I'm expecting either Sky Station Galaxy, Good Egg Galaxy, Yoshi Star Galaxy, or something along those lines.

 

[Jaklub]

Tourneys are NO argument. Nintendo doesn't care about that.

UberMario is right. Make it a huge Brinstar Depths like stage with walkoff edges and maybe no gravity change would be needed.

 

[Phantom7]

The shape of the stage is just plain awkward for Smash Bros., though. There are plenty more options for a stage like Sky Station Galaxy, where the characters could ride through the galaxy, and there could be a lot to see in the background, much like Brawl's Delfino Plaza.

 

[fenyx4]

It wouldn't work because the goal of Smash Bros. is to knock the opponent off the arena, and having gravity changes would interfere with that. (Also, the stage would immediately be made illegal in tourneys.) I'm expecting either Sky Station Galaxy, Good Egg Galaxy, Yoshi Star Galaxy, or something along those lines.

Um...don't several stages interfere with that goal already?


And yeah, tourneys (and the potential stage bannings in them) aren't a reason to inhibit the creation of such a stage. Everyone just uses the partially monotonous Final Destination all the freaking time, anyway (in my experience just a few days ago, at least ). Personally, I actually like having that goal interfered with a bit - I don't play Super Smash Brothers primarily for the bland, static stages.

As for the gravity thing, the Pokemon Stadium 2 and Spear Pillar stages already have gravity alterations (Flying-type stage transformation and Palkia, respectively).

Anyway, I haven't played Super Mario Galaxy yet, so I can't vie for the inclusion of Starship Mario or Sky Station Galaxy. They sound interesting in theory, though. However, that "riding out around the galaxy" thing sounds way too similar to a background clone of Final Destination, which already apparently partially takes place in space. The stage would have to be a bit distinctive in terms of background with that "Mario" feel...

Yes, it would be instabanned but designing stages solely for tournament use is not good design. There must be a balance of competetive play and fun ideas in the game.

I share similar sentiments.

 

[ryuu seika]

My idea of Starship Mario was a very simple front or side on (uncertain as to which) view of the spaceship, possibly with a moving background but without it having any affect (like FD), and with the ability to run all the way round and upside down it. You don't really need to have played either SMG game to understand how that would work, though having seen a picture of Mario's head would help.
Yes, it would make sideways KOs a lot harder and completely destroy edge guarding and the need for recovery (if you don't die you eventually fall back on, even if you have to do three rotations of the stage first) but it would also be a unique gameplay element that summerise an entire game quite simply.
Yes, it would be instabanned but designing stages solely for tournament use is not good design. There must be a balance of competetive play and fun ideas in the game.

 

[Big-Cat]

So yeah, that revolver action thing to have ground based combos....

 

[kingkyle_333]

I have been reading posts on here for some time now and I have decided to post my opinion of the next roster. Just something to note. This is not a wish list it is a prediction. Bracketed characters are competitors for one space ordered from most to least likely then I will write my opinion on new/changed characters.

Super Mario Bros. : Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, (Bowser Jr./Toad/Paper Mario)

Bowser Jr.- Bowser Jr. is the most likely character to be added to the Mario series. Sins his introduction he has been in many important games and will no doubly be in future Mario games.

Toad- I do not want Toad as A playable Smash Bros. character but admittedly I would say he is the most deserved to be in the game. Although I believe Bowser Jr. is more likely because he is a main villain, if there is another multiplayer Super Mario Bros. game on the Nintendo 3DS with him playable, in my opinion he has a legitimate chance at being a playable character.

Paper Mario- Paper Mario is a well received side series of Mario. It has three games and one Nintendo 3DS game on the way so I believe if Sakurai wants a character a little different from the “main” Mario series its definitely a legitimate possibility to happen, but not as likely.

The Legend of Zelda: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Gannondorf, (Toon Link/Irregular Link)

I believe that there is a chance that Toon Link might be changed, but this is only if Zelda developers drop the Toon Link styled games. If they don’t, I don’t see the Legend of Zelda changing.

Pokemon: Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, (Mewtwo/Lucario), Jigglypuf, (Fifth Generation Pokemon)

Mewtwo vs. Lucario- I think it both Mewtwo and Lucario cannot coexist in the next Smash Bros. game, so it is my believe that Mewtwo will most likely (but not diffidently) replace Lucario, because 1. Lucario was likely in the game to promote Gen 4 Pokemon. 2. Mewtwo is a very popular Pokemon who was planed to be in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. 3. The two characters are to similar and when there are better characters to add, there is no reason to have to similar Pokemon characters.

I also believe, in order to advertise for the Fifth Generation there will be one representative.

Star Fox: Fox, Falco, Wolf

Up until recently I believed Krystal also believed to be on this list, but after reading some posts for Chronobound I have came to the conclusion these three character are just the right Star Fox representatives.

Kirby: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede

Sakurai knows what he’s doing when it comes to his babies.

Metroid: Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Ridley

I was honestly surprised Ridly wasn’t in Brawl, but I think especially because of Metroid: Other M that Ridley is going to be a playable character.

Fire Emblem: Marth, (Ike/Roy), Roy

I don’t really know if I think Fire Emblem deserves three characters, I also don’t know if Ike deserves to be kept in the next game, but if Ike is removed from the next Smash Bros. I believe Roy is likely to come back, and if Ike stays there is a smaller, yet still legitimate chance of Roy coming back.

Donkey Kong: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool

I believe that King K. Rool definitely deserves to be in the next game, but I do believe weather he has any appearance in Donkey Kong Country Returns will affect his chances. From what we know now, he is most likely not in the game, witch is disheartening but don’t count him completely out.

Mother/Earthbound: Lucas, (Ness/Masked Man)

We probably wont see wont see a change in the Mother/Earthbound series, but if we do the only thing that will happen is Ness will be replaced by the Masked Man.

F-Zero: Captain Falcon, Black Shadow

I cant say I believe 100% that F-Zero needs another character but if it does, we will be smashing with Black Shadow.

One Character Series-

Pikmin: Captain Olimar

Pikmin deserves another character but there simply is not any other deserving character. It is very unlikely, but there might be a deserving character in the planed Pikmin 3, but don’t hold your breath.

Wario Ware: Wario

I love the Wario series but he’s not getting company.

Kid Icarus: Pit

Its hard to tell what’s going to happen with Kid Icarus, Sakurai is working on Kid Icarus for the Nintendo 3DS, so we may think the series doesn’t deserve two characters, he will better understand the characters and that make him more inclined to add one. This is not too unlikely.

Golden Sun: Isaac

With the new Golden Sun for the DS, I believe Sakurai will believe Golden Sun is worthy enough to have a playable character in the next Smash Bros.

Yoshi‘s Island: Yoshi

If anything we will see something like Baby Mario Bros. duo or something along those lines, but there simply isn’t enough Yoshi’s Island games to warrant a second character.

Advance Wars:

Sorry I don't know the series well enough to choose.

Retro Series-

Game & Watch: Mr. Game & Watch

Ice Climbers: Ice Climbers

Famicon: R.O.B

Other: (Mach Rider/Takamaru/Balloon Fighter)

I personally believe there is a good chance we are going to get one more retro character. Any of these characters could be applied to Smash Bros. but I really don’t know who I think has a better chance in this series.



Third Party-

Metal Gear: Snake

Snake is most likely to return, he is well loved and this is supported by the fact that we are getting a Metal Gear Solid game on the Nintendo 3DS. If third party characters return, we will likely see Snake.

Sonic The Hedgehog: Sonic

Sonic is loved by many, and has been in, and is rumored to be in another Nintendo crossover, this and Sonic Colors makes me pretty sure he will come back.

Megaman: Megaman

Simply, Megaman is the Capcom character with the most ties with Nintendo, and will likely be the only new third party newcomer.


Assist Trophy/Characters

Here I will list characters that I believe are unlikely to be playable characters but still relatively possible however unlikely to appear. E.g. If I believe Bowser Jr. has a 50% and above chance to appear, these characters would have a 6%-25% chance to appear.

Super Mario Bros. : Geno

Legend of Zelda : Tingle, Skull Kid

Pokemon: Rival

Star Fox: Krystal

Kirby: Knuckle Joe, Prince Fluff (Kirby’s Epic Yarn)

Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong, Funky Kong

Mother: None

Fire Emblem: Black Knight

Yoshi’s Island: Baby Mario Bros. , Baby Bowser, Kamek, Shyguy

Kid Icarus: Palutena, Medusa

Wario Ware: Mona, Jimmy T, Kat and Anna

Pikmin: Loui

Golden Sun: None

Advance Wars: None

F-Zero: Samurai Goro

Retro: None

 

[Claire Diviner]

@kingkyle_333: Wow! Where to begin?...

Bowser Jr. may see an appearance, provided he isn't a clone of Bowser. A "Luigification" perhaps, but if Nintendo cannot think of any ideas to make him anything but a lighter, smaller Bowser, he may not be included.

Paper Mario has a somewhat similar problem, though given the game he's from, I think a moveset to differentiate him from normal Mario is definitely possible. Whether that would warrant an inclusion remains to be seen.

I don't see Toad as a character at all, mostly because he technically is already in Smash Bros. as Peach's standard B move. On top of that, there isn't anything Toad has that could conjure a viable moveset. Sad to say, but the dog from Duck Hunt has a better shot at being included as a fighter than Toad does.

I want both Mewtwo and Lucario. They both are really different. Truly, the only thing they have in common are their respective standard B moves. Other than that, they aren't similar at all. If I had to choose between the two, I'd go Mewtwo (I'll spare the reasons for another time). Chances are, they both might be replaced with Zoroark. Best case scenario, Nintendo includes all three.

This thread had a discussion earlier about Ridley. I can type a "Bible"-long post about the reasons he may/may not be included, but I'll leave that up to you to go back and read the earlier posts.

Marth and Ike, I can see remaining practically untouched. For Roy to return, Nintendo will have to think of a more unique moveset to differentiate him from Marth. He can at least keep his standard B unchanged from Melee, since Marth's was altered for Brawl, making Roy's currently unique.

King K. Rool should be in a Smash Bros. game. It goes without saying he'd be classified as a super heavyweight, but there are various elements from his Donkey Kong Country appearances that could warrant a fresh and unique moveset. Tossing his crown is but one example.

Ness will never be replaced, period. He's been around since Smash64. People initially thought Lucas was Ness's replacement, but that was later proven false. It's a safe bet to say, "if they were in Smash64, they'll be in all subsequent Smash games".

Isaac (among others) deserves to be in a Smash Bros. game. There's a clown car of options for a unique moveset, so Isaac's inclusion is definitely not impossible.

Between Mach Rider, Takamaru, and Balloon Fighter, I see them including Balloon Fighter (maybe). Other than that, I wouldn't really bank on it in the end, but who knows?

As for third-party characters, it's as I said before: they'll either remove them (and all ideas for third parties), replace them with different third parties, or keep Snake and Sonic while expanding on the potential for a wider third party character pool.

For your Assist Trophies, I see all but Geno. Unless Nintendo gets permission from Square-Enix, Geno's inclusion in any form isn't likely.

Well, that's pretty much all I've got in response. Overall, your idea/theories isn't too bad, though some were already discussed before.

 

[Phantom7]

Um...don't several stages interfere with that goal already?


And yeah, tourneys (and the potential stage bannings in them) aren't a reason to inhibit the creation of such a stage. Everyone just uses the partially monotonous Final Destination all the freaking time, anyway (in my experience just a few days ago, at least ). Personally, I actually like having that goal interfered with a bit - I don't play Super Smash Brothers primarily for the bland, static stages.

As for the gravity thing, the Pokemon Stadium 2 and Spear Pillar stages already have gravity alterations (Flying-type stage transformation and Palkia, respectively).

Anyway, I haven't played Super Mario Galaxy yet, so I can't vie for the inclusion of Starship Mario or Sky Station Galaxy. They sound interesting in theory, though. However, that "riding out around the galaxy" thing sounds way too similar to a background clone of Final Destination, which already apparently partially takes place in space. The stage would have to be a bit distinctive in terms of background with that "Mario" feel...

First of all, none of those stages interfere with the gameplay in the same manner that Starship Mario would. The gravity changes that I'm referring to apply all of the way around the ship, meaning that characters could walk on the bottom and sides of the stage - that would cause a gameplay interference. The examples you mentioned are merely gimmicks that do not interfere with physics, just the battle alone.

Second, I was not using tourneys as a basis for my argument; I just threw that in because it came to mind as one of the results of gravity changes at Starship Mario.

Third and finally, if you haven't even played Galaxy or Galaxy 2, how can debate that Starship Mario should have priority over other potential Galaxy stages? And if you can't vie for Sky Station or Good Egg, how can you vie for Starship Mario? And how can you compare Sky Station to Final Destination if you've never even seen Sky Station? Of course it would be distinctive in terms of a "Mario" feel, simply because it is from a Mario game that has a very distinctive "Mario" feel.

Maybe this will help you determine the distinctiveness between Final Destination and Sky Station Galaxy:

(If only I could find a better image)

 

[Pieman0920]

Only someone who never played a Kirby game would say that!

I'm not too big on Galaxy or Other M music, so aside from tracks from other games nothing comes to mind. You wanna post some playlists?

Then what Kirby song do you have in mind? The only major one I can think of off the top of my head that they need to put in the next game is Sand Canyon.

Anyways, for Super Mario Galaxy 2

Final Boss Battle - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2GHF8icAXI
Puzzle Plank Galaxy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrzeaIOzSg
Melty Monster Galaxy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJP0zTV66j4
Bowser Jr's Fiery Flotia - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBIFhM5KGPg
Yoshi Star Galaxy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rylkLr9BYJo
Sky Station Galaxy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Pw4k8
Sky Station Galaxy 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpjXgwFGdqQ
Cloudy Court Galaxy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMKoGyh3fBM&
Space Storm Galaxy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vka-N_jWNEY&
Fleet Glide Galaxy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9dd5xGJmbY
Bowser Galaxy Generator - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8jD6NLwy50
Bowser Battle - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_7N8pePjQE


Woo~

As for Metroid Other M, as I said before, there's not really much that I can think of that isn't a remix.

Nightmare Fight - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBbRdWUIZHg&
Final Boss(es) Fight - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBVA7qrPbOE&
Staff Roll - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=126-XKmeV68
Desbrachian Battle - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F2nBC2rPkQ&

Seriously, there's not that much. Other M seemed to try a minimalist approach for music it seems



Anyways, it wouldn't matter if Starship Mario had weird gravity or not. It still has to be the stage. If the grabity is normal, just have it show Mario's head in profile as it travels around the different world maps.

 

[UberMario]

Then what Kirby song do you have in mind? The only major one I can think of off the top of my head that they need to put in the next game is Sand Canyon.

For retros:

Fountain of Dreams:
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - Sand Canyon 3
Kirby 64 - Quiet Forest
Kirby Air Ride - Magma Flows
Kirby Air Ride - Celestial Valley
Kirby Air Ride - Sky Sands

Green Greens/Dreamland (they should be two variants of the same stage):
("Nature Area" from Kirby & The Amazing Mirror should have been here, not Halberd)
Kirby's Dream Land 2 - Big Forest
A medley of KDL2's Rick, Coo, and Kine themes.
Kirby's Block Ball - Mr. Shine & Bright
Kirby's Pinball Land - Whispy Woods
Kirby's Tilt 'N Tumble - Balloon Theme
A medley of KDL3's Kine, Rick, and Coo themes..
Kirby's Avalanche - Forest
Kirby 64 - Grassland
Kirby 64 - 100-Yard Hop (Kirby Super Star - Gourmet Race)
Kirby's Epic Yarn - Outer Rings

Halberd:
Kirby Super Star - Battle Against Meta-Knight
Kirby's Block Ball - Boss Battle
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - Hyper Zone: Dark Matter
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - Hyper Zone: Zero (This and the above could be a 2-part medley)
Kirby 64 - Boss Theme
Kirby 64 - Desert
Kirby 64 - Checkerboard Chase
Kirby 64 - Miracle Matter
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror -vs. Dark Meta-Knight
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror - Dark Mind
Kirby Squeak Squad - Fire Land
Kirby Super Star Ultra - Galacta Knight


For new courses: (I'll just put three potential stage ideas down for the sake of sorting):
DeDeDe's Arena:
(DeDeDe's Theme would be moved to here)
Kirby Super Star Stacker - DeDeDe's Theme
Kirby Super Star Ultra - Masked DeDede (Combined with the above into one remix)
Kirby's Dream Land 2 - Dark Castle
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - Dark Tower
Kirby 64 -Dark Matter's Castle
Kirby Air Ride - Dyna-Blade (Kirby's Dream Land - Castle LoLoLo)
Kirby Canvas Curse - Drawcia Sorceress
Kirby's Epic Yarn - Tube Town

NOVA:
(Marx's Theme would be moved here)
Kirby's Adventure - Nightmare
Kirby Super Star - Milky Way Wishes Overworld
Kirby Super Star - Heart of Nova
Kirby 64 - Factory Investigation
Kirby 64 - Dark Star
Kirby Air Ride - Nebula Belt
Kirby Air Ride - Machine Passage
Kirby Squeak Squad - Dark Nebula

Float Islands:
Kirby Super Star - Float Islands (Kirby's Dream Land)
Kirby's Dream Course - Cloudy Mountain Peaks
Kirby's Dream Course - Green Fields
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - Sand Canyon 1
Kirby 64 - Taking Battle
Kirby's Epic Yarn - Dusk Dunes

I suggest listening to all of them.

 

[jiujie1]

This thread is for the discussion of SSB4, and what your hopes for the game are. Everything from character lists to new features should go in this thread.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Then what Kirby song do you have in mind? The only major one I can think of off the top of my head that they need to put in the next game is Sand Canyon.

Yeah, you're not looking very hard then. Every Sakurai-made Kirby game had, in my mind, a flawless soundtrack. But rather than list every single song I'll just pick a few from the big three:

Kirby's Dream Land
- Float Islands
- Bubbly Clouds
- Kaboola
- Ending

Kirby's Adventure
- Ice Cream Island
- Yogurt Yard
- Forest (Amazing Mirror version)
- Grape Garden

Kirby Super Star
- Cocoa Cave
- Great Cave Theme
- Orange Ocean
- Milky Way Wishes Ending


Also kinda surprised you guys think they'd do a stage based off of Galaxy 2 instead of Galaxy 1. In fact, add Comet Observatory to the list of "things Toise will gamble his marriage on."

This thread is for the discussion of SSB4, and what your hopes for the game are. Everything from character lists to new features should go in this thread.

What are you, the narrator?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

No, he's a bot.

 

[Sync99]

Super Meat Boy for SSB4!!

 

[Phantom7]

All of these music suggestions seem pretty plausible. Although, Metroid Other M really did not carry a minimalist appraoch to music. Most of the music is very cinematic and not cut out for Smash Bros., so when thinking in Smash Bros. terms, there doesn't seem to be much original music. But if you consider the music played during the cutscenes as well as the amazing credits music, the developers took original music very seriously and did a fantastic job with it.

Anyways, it wouldn't matter if Starship Mario had weird gravity or not. It still has to be the stage. If the grabity is normal, just have it show Mario's head in profile as it travels around the different world maps.

What do you mean by "It still has to be the stage"? Is this supposed to be an argument? Think of the options the stage designers would have by instead creating a Good Egg Galaxy or Sky Station Galaxy stage. Let's take Sky Station for example. The characters could fight on a platform that travels all around the galaxy, showing many features of the galaxy, like some of the actual level design and enemies. The traveling platform could merge into different sections of planets, and Starship Mario could even fly around in the background.

Not to say that they will not or cannot turn Starship Mario into a stage, but it is more likely that one of the most well-known galaxies, like Good Egg, Sky Station, or Yoshi Star, will make an appearance as a stage.

 

[Claire Diviner]

All of these music suggestions seem pretty plausible. Although, Metroid Other M really did not carry a minimalist appraoch to music. Most of the music is very cinematic and not cut out for Smash Bros., so when thinking in Smash Bros. terms, there doesn't seem to be much original music. But if you consider the music played during the cutscenes as well as the amazing credits music, the developers took original music very seriously and did a fantastic job with it.



What do you mean by "It still has to be the stage"? Is this supposed to be an argument? Think of the options the stage designers would have by instead creating a Good Egg Galaxy or Sky Station Galaxy stage. Let's take Sky Station for example. The characters could fight on a platform that travels all around the galaxy, showing many features of the galaxy, like some of the actual level design and enemies. The traveling platform could merge into different sections of planets, and Starship Mario could even fly around in the background.

Not to say that they will not or cannot turn Starship Mario into a stage, but it is more likely that one of the most well-known galaxies, like Good Egg, Sky Station, or Yoshi Star, will make an appearance as a stage.

For your Other M comment, I have to say I agree 100%.

For Starship Mario, let's assume they do make it a stage, and the stage has the gravity feature where you're running around a planet. A stage like that would rely exclusively on verticle kills to remove a stock. Assuming there are no proper hazzards to do so, SDing would also be rendered impossible. I can only begin to imagine how the controls would be if one decides to go upside down. It seems fun, though I'm positive myself that Nintendo will forgo such an idea in favor of another galaxy.

 

[ryuu seika]

Starship Mario is more simple and iconic than any galaxy ever could be (short of throwback galaxy or something). This does not exclude other stges, it just makes SSM the obvious choice, both from my point of view and, likely, that of the developers.

Taking Starship Mario, what have you got?
1: You've got a near circular stage that aught to have (but doesn't require) weird gravity. How this works is very simple, right is clockwise, left is anti-clockwise. This allows players to, if unhindered, go all the way round without letting go of the control stick. Vertical KOs would require a much higher percentage but would still be possible.
2: The possibility of clouds (YI64 style), boboms, penguins, "chance cube" item boxes and various other permenant stage hazards.
3: Free roam of both SMG universes, both as backgrounds and to provide additional hazards if deemed nessicery.
4: Another Toad cameo appearance.

Basically, while the stage seems to want a unique aspect that massively changes gameplay, there are so many other options for the stage and so many ways to fix it for casual use even if the main gimmick is broken.

EDIT: and on another note, can we have the Ice Climbers unlocked by SDing off the top (perhaps multiple times) in future games (the whole stage being the top for SSM if used like that)? It wouldboth make sense and be an odd method of unlocking.

 

[libertyernie]

I think it's almost certain that two of the Fire Emblem characters will be Marth, who was in the first and third FE games, and the protagonist from the most recent FE game at the time of SSB4's release. I would not be surprised if Ike and/or Roy returned as well.

 

[Zap tackle]

I don't see Toad as a character at all, mostly because he technically is already in Smash Bros. as Peach's standard B move. On top of that, there isn't anything Toad has that could conjure a viable moveset. Sad to say, but the dog from Duck Hunt has a better shot at being included as a fighter than Toad does.

Honestly, I don't see how people still bring up the problem with making Toad a moveset. In every forum I go to, I always see this as the main complaint for Toad. There are many moves to give for him that will be unique originating from Mario 2 and even to New super mario bros. wii. As for a final smash, most of the mario characters got moves that are based on their characteristics and Toad would get the same as well. Look at Mario Sports mix. Despite being a spin-off, it gives the characters their moves that they would use (eg Jr. uses his paintbrush and Mario uses a fiery blast).

(final smash idea) In mario sports mix, Toad releases spores and creates gargantuan sized mushrooms on the stage which then move due to Toad's telepathic powers (he apparently has some in this game). Toad would then launch a shot causing the mushrooms to explode; thus, causing an explosion for his opponents. Having a FS like this would really stay true to the character in my opinion (note: spin-off or not, these games give the characters their traits like Peach's hearts).

 

[konstargirl]

This is just speculation at this point.

Oh okay. If it really happened, I would like buy it.

 

[n88]

@Zap tackle

The arguments against Toad that claim that he couldn't have a moveset are pretty stupid. Not because he has so much to work with in his source material (He's quite limited there, yes) but because a lot of movesets are just made up anyway. Zelda had almost nothing to work with and she had a moveset pulled out of thin air for her. Ditto for Peach, ROB, Captain Falcon, Fox, and really all of the cast in some capacity. Sakurai and co. really aren't afraid to make stuff up to fill in the gaps in a character's attacks, but people rarely take that into account for characters like Toad who don't have much to work with.

 

[Zap tackle]

The arguments against Toad that claim that he couldn't have a moveset are pretty stupid. Not because he has so much to work with in his source material (He's quite limited there, yes) but because a lot of movesets are just made up anyway. Zelda had almost nothing to work with and she had a moveset pulled out of thin air for her. Ditto for Peach, ROB, Captain Falcon, Fox, and really all of the cast in some capacity. Sakurai and co. really aren't afraid to make stuff up to fill in the gaps in a character's attacks, but people rarely take that into account for characters like Toad who don't have much to work with.

Exactly. Most of the smash characters have moves that feel natural to them, even though they themselves never used them in the games. Like Zelda, she should have magic powers so give her the best of Link's magical moves that he used in the past and voila! Zelda is playable in smash. I'm not trying to say that this is the case for every character but I just detest how so much people say that the only reason for Toad not getting into smash is due to a lack of moveset. Peach had barely any thing to work with before too but that didn't stop her from being playable. She even needed Toad to be a part of her moveset as she again had nothing to work with in the past.

 

[Claire Diviner]

The arguments against Toad that claim that he couldn't have a moveset are pretty stupid. Not because he has so much to work with in his source material (He's quite limited there, yes) but because a lot of movesets are just made up anyway. Zelda had almost nothing to work with and she had a moveset pulled out of thin air for her. Ditto for Peach, ROB, Captain Falcon, Fox, and really all of the cast in some capacity. Sakurai and co. really aren't afraid to make stuff up to fill in the gaps in a character's attacks, but people rarely take that into account for characters like Toad who don't have much to work with.

Exactly. Most of the smash characters have moves that feel natural to them, even though they themselves never used them in the games. Like Zelda, she should have magic powers so give her the best of Link's magical moves that he used in the past and voila! Zelda is playable in smash. I'm not trying to say that this is the case for every character but I just detest how so much people say that the only reason for Toad not getting into smash is due to a lack of moveset. Peach had barely any thing to work with before too but that didn't stop her from being playable. She even needed Toad to be a part of her moveset as she again had nothing to work with in the past.

In hindsight perhaps, I can see your point. Just about every character has moves that seemed to come from nowhere. So okay, Toad's inclusion isn't impossible, but I still think a couple of factors may still play a part in his possible exclusion:

- Seeing as he's the standard B for Peach already, Nintendo has several options. A: Change Peach's standard B. B: Keep her standard B as is and have an odd moment of a Peach pulling out Toad's clone in a Peach/Toad MU. C: explain that the playable Toad is THE Toad, while the one Peach pulls out is merely one of the generic "Toad" servants. Either method is viable should they choose to include him.

- Popularity: Personally, I don't believe Toad is a popular character (or rather, as popular as others). True, there may be other characters that weren't popular at the time, like G&W and R.O.B., the former of which half the world knew nothing about. However, their inclusion had a definite "Wow!" factor that no one saw coming. They could include Toad, but few would be wowed or excited about his inclusion (or so I predict), and unless he has a moveset that makes him extraordinary, it would be a safe bet that not many would main him, unless he somehow becomes a high/top tier.

Regardless, Toad's inclusion doesn't seem very farfetched, but I still believe they may not include him anyway. I could be wrong, and I actually hope I am, as I'm always happy when Nintendo is able to expand the fighter pool with whatever they can think of.

 

[Phantom7]

In regards to Toad, has anyone in here ever played the fan-game Super Smash Bros. Crusade? Toad is a playable character in that game, and it shows he has quite a bit of moveset potential.

I don't think Sakurai will have much support for him, though, considering he is actually Peach's standard special move.

 

[UberMario]

Or . . . they could replace Peach's B move with Perry the Parasol, which could also be used for her Up B. [rather than a generic one]. Peach can grab players/items with Perry and chuck them, or since Perry has magic powers, they could just make him reflect attacks as a direct replacement of Peach's B move.

 

[fenyx4]

@kingkyle_333: Wow! Where to begin?...

Bowser Jr. may see an appearance, provided he isn't a clone of Bowser. A "Luigification" perhaps, but if Nintendo cannot think of any ideas to make him anything but a lighter, smaller Bowser, he may not be included.

Paper Mario has a somewhat similar problem, though given the game he's from, I think a moveset to differentiate him from normal Mario is definitely possible. Whether that would warrant an inclusion remains to be seen.

I don't see Toad as a character at all, mostly because he technically is already in Smash Bros. as Peach's standard B move. On top of that, there isn't anything Toad has that could conjure a viable moveset. Sad to say, but the dog from Duck Hunt has a better shot at being included as a fighter than Toad does.

I want both Mewtwo and Lucario. They both are really different. Truly, the only thing they have in common are their respective standard B moves. Other than that, they aren't similar at all. If I had to choose between the two, I'd go Mewtwo (I'll spare the reasons for another time). Chances are, they both might be replaced with Zoroark. Best case scenario, Nintendo includes all three.

This thread had a discussion earlier about Ridley. I can type a "Bible"-long post about the reasons he may/may not be included, but I'll leave that up to you to go back and read the earlier posts.

Marth and Ike, I can see remaining practically untouched. For Roy to return, Nintendo will have to think of a more unique moveset to differentiate him from Marth. He can at least keep his standard B unchanged from Melee, since Marth's was altered for Brawl, making Roy's currently unique.

King K. Rool should be in a Smash Bros. game. It goes without saying he'd be classified as a super heavyweight, but there are various elements from his Donkey Kong Country appearances that could warrant a fresh and unique moveset. Tossing his crown is but one example.

Ness will never be replaced, period. He's been around since Smash64. People initially thought Lucas was Ness's replacement, but that was later proven false. It's a safe bet to say, "if they were in Smash64, they'll be in all subsequent Smash games".

Isaac (among others) deserves to be in a Smash Bros. game. There's a clown car of options for a unique moveset, so Isaac's inclusion is definitely not impossible.

Between Mach Rider, Takamaru, and Balloon Fighter, I see them including Balloon Fighter (maybe). Other than that, I wouldn't really bank on it in the end, but who knows?

As for third-party characters, it's as I said before: they'll either remove them (and all ideas for third parties), replace them with different third parties, or keep Snake and Sonic while expanding on the potential for a wider third party character pool.

For your Assist Trophies, I see all but Geno. Unless Nintendo gets permission from Square-Enix, Geno's inclusion in any form isn't likely.

Well, that's pretty much all I've got in response. Overall, your idea/theories isn't too bad, though some were already discussed before.

I agree with pretty much all of this sans the Toad part. While I'm not going to vouch for him as an actual character (I'm pretty much fine with him as Peach's neutral special), as I have several other characters prioritized for inclusion (incuding Ridley, King K. Rool, and uncloned Paper Mario), I would not have a problem with him being included as a playable character, provided all the other characters on my wishlist happen to get in. As long as the Toad in Peach's neutral special gets recolored or something to make it look less strange that Toad is seen in two forms, I won't have a problem. Namely from your post, I'm hoping for Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark to be included as playable characters despite Lucario and Zoroark's high similarity to Mewtwo in a sense as the "humanoid legendary" (yes, Zoroark apparently isn't actually legendary, but he's event-only as of now and has a legendary-like illusory ability). Additionally, I'm hoping for Snake and Sonic to stay, have their universes expanded, while introducing further third-party characters/universes as well.

First of all, none of those stages interfere with the gameplay in the same manner that Starship Mario would. The gravity changes that I'm referring to apply all of the way around the ship, meaning that characters could walk on the bottom and sides of the stage - that would cause a gameplay interference. The examples you mentioned are merely gimmicks that do not interfere with physics, just the battle alone.

Second, I was not using tourneys as a basis for my argument; I just threw that in because it came to mind as one of the results of gravity changes at Starship Mario.

Third and finally, if you haven't even played Galaxy or Galaxy 2, how can debate that Starship Mario should have priority over other potential Galaxy stages? And if you can't vie for Sky Station or Good Egg, how can you vie for Starship Mario? And how can you compare Sky Station to Final Destination if you've never even seen Sky Station? Of course it would be distinctive in terms of a "Mario" feel, simply because it is from a Mario game that has a very distinctive "Mario" feel.

Maybe this will help you determine the distinctiveness between Final Destination and Sky Station Galaxy:

(If only I could find a better image)

Fine...that great of a physics alteration may pose a problem with gameplay. IMO, it would still be pretty interesting to see if it could be implemented, and as for "gameplay interference via major physics alteration", Starship Mario is only one stage. There would be plenty of other stages to choose from if one dislikes the physics on such a stage. Just like there are plenty of options for those anti-Rumble Falls people who hate constantly jumping. I, however, would welcome such a stage, as I think stages that deviate from the Smash norm can invite the chance for some pretty interesting matches. Mario Bros. and 75m can do this on occasion as well.

And I never said that I "prioritized" Starship Mario over Sky Station or Good Egg. I just stated that its concept sounds interesting in theory. However, a potential stage's concept alone isn't the only thing to factor in when considering a stage for inclusion. One also has to take in account the look of the stage (to an extent), notability (to an extent) and playability, among other things. So since I haven't played Super Mario Galaxy 1 or SMG2 to get a feel for the stages, I cannot fully vouch for them yet. I support their concepts though, as using a certain stage concept does not have to be limited. For instance, if other SMG stages happen to have priority over Starship Mario according to the developers, that does not mean we cannot import and reuse the concept somewhere else. Take Pokemon for instance. The fourth generation introduced several physics-altering moves such as Gravity and Trick Room, and even a whole physics-altering location, the Distortion World, home of the legendary Pokemon Giratina. Using a combination of those things newly introduced, I believe that a stage using the concept of "walking on the sides and the bottom of the stage" could still be created, just Pokemon-themed instead of Mario-themed. So once again, I cannot fully vouch for Starship Mario yet due to not having exposure to its other factors, but I support the concept it has brought forth.

Even though I haven't seen Sky Station yet, I compared it (the background it would have, I mean) to Final Destination because of what I heard would be used: riding around the galaxy. That statement alone was enough to make me think Final D, because that's essentially what the background is, traveling through different space locales, one of which includes a galaxy in the background. Lylat Cruise could be argued to do the same thing. If we're going to be "riding around the galaxy" again, which is essentially traveling through a portion of space, there isn't really a need/point for the stage, as two stages already do the same thing pretty much. I mean, space is pretty much stars, star clusters, planets, and rock debris. Not much else you can do if you've used all of that, which is why I stated that the background of the proposed Sky Station stage of the Mario universe would need to have that distinctive "Mario" feel. Lylat Cruise's background managed to differentiate itself from Final Destination's background by including space warps that were more prominent, asteroid belts, floating spacecraft, and spaceship dogfights. I feel those elements distance Lylat Cruise from Final Destination enough so it doesn't feel too much like a Final Destination clone of "traveling through space." As for Sky Station, it would need to introduce something different from Lylat Cruise and Final D for its background to be viable. Due to the picture posted, it seems like the background of Sky Station could be distinguished enough from the other 2 aforementioned stages that are already present in Smash, as I see more vibrant colors used (especially what appears to be green grass in space), oddly-shaped space debris and structures unlike those of the other stages, and what seems to be like clouds hovering in space. Those elements could distinguish Sky Station enough IMO, thus resolving the issue of Sky Station's background being a generic clone of other "riding around the galaxy/traveling through space" stages.

Then what Kirby song do you have in mind? The only major one I can think of off the top of my head that they need to put in the next game is Sand Canyon.

Yes! Sand Canyon should be featured in its pristine original form!
Sand Canyon 1 - Kirby's Dreamland 3

In hindsight perhaps, I can see your point. Just about every character has moves that seemed to come from nowhere. So okay, Toad's inclusion isn't impossible, but I still think a couple of factors may still play a part in his possible exclusion:

- Seeing as he's the standard B for Peach already, Nintendo has several options. A: Change Peach's standard B. B: Keep her standard B as is and have an odd moment of a Peach pulling out Toad's clone in a Peach/Toad MU. C: explain that the playable Toad is THE Toad, while the one Peach pulls out is merely one of the generic "Toad" servants. Either method is viable should they choose to include him.

- Popularity: Personally, I don't believe Toad is a popular character (or rather, as popular as others). True, there may be other characters that weren't popular at the time, like G&W and R.O.B., the former of which half the world knew nothing about. However, their inclusion had a definite "Wow!" factor that no one saw coming. They could include Toad, but few would be wowed or excited about his inclusion (or so I predict), and unless he has a moveset that makes him extraordinary, it would be a safe bet that not many would main him, unless he somehow becomes a high/top tier.

Regardless, Toad's inclusion doesn't seem very farfetched, but I still believe they may not include him anyway. I could be wrong, and I actually hope I am, as I'm always happy when Nintendo is able to expand the fighter pool with whatever they can think of.

I agree that new moves could be "slipped into" Toad's moveset, as from what I've seen, he seems to be partially viable with a small repertoire of moves. But again, I'd like Peach's neutral special (Standard B) to be preserved, with there being a way to somehow distinguish the two Toads should a playable one be included.

In regards to Toad, has anyone in here ever played the fan-game Super Smash Bros. Crusade? Toad is a playable character in that game, and it shows he has quite a bit of moveset potential.

I don't think Sakurai will have much support for him, though, considering he is actually Peach's standard special move.

Very interesting...I might have to check that fangame out alongside Super Smash Flash 2. But yeah, since Toad is technically already a "character" seen in someone's moveset, it could lessen the chance for his inclusion.

Or . . . they could replace Peach's B move with Perry the Parasol, which could also be used for her Up B. [rather than a generic one]. Peach can grab players/items with Perry and chuck them, or since Perry has magic powers, they could just make him reflect attacks as a direct replacement of Peach's B move.

That's what I was wondering. I've always been wondering whether something from Super Princess Peach could be used in some way in future Smash games... Perry the Parasol could be a nice replacement for Peach's generic parasol... For the Up Special/Up B move at least... However, I still think Toad should stay as the neutral Special/neutral B, regardless of whether Perry could be substituted for the same function during the move's instance. Not only do I like that blue-green spray featured in the move, IMO, it's much funnier seeing Toad absorb attacks than seeing a parasol doing the same thing...

 

[Claire Diviner]

Or . . . they could replace Peach's B move with Perry the Parasol, which could also be used for her Up B. [rather than a generic one]. Peach can grab players/items with Perry and chuck them, or since Perry has magic powers, they could just make him reflect attacks as a direct replacement of Peach's B move.

Wow, that's actually a smart idea. Maybe her standard B could be an energy projectile fired from Perry, where the damage and range depends on how long you hold B. Why not go the extra mile and allow her complete mobility while holding B. It's genious!

By the way, kudos to the Super Princess Peach reference: I love that game, and I'll argue to the death that it badly needs a sequel! X3

 

[Fatmanonice]

It almost scares me that this thread is nearly 3 years old. X_x' We'll probably have to wait another 3 years for another Smash Bros though so by that time I'll just be plain flabbergasted.

 

[Claire Diviner]

It almost scares me that this thread is nearly 3 years old. X_x' We'll probably have to wait another 3 years for another Smash Bros though so by that time I'll just be plain flabbergasted.

Wow, really? Why was I unaware of this thread's age? When you put it that way though, this could end up being the oldest active thread (as far as I know) on the forum, if it hasn't already.

 

[Zap tackle]

- Popularity: Personally, I don't believe Toad is a popular character (or rather, as popular as others). True, there may be other characters that weren't popular at the time, like G&W and R.O.B., the former of which half the world knew nothing about. However, their inclusion had a definite "Wow!" factor that no one saw coming. They could include Toad, but few would be wowed or excited about his inclusion (or so I predict), and unless he has a moveset that makes him extraordinary, it would be a safe bet that not many would main him, unless he somehow becomes a high/top tier.

I can't help but notice this but I'm pretty sure that Toad is pretty famous as a Mario character. He was top 8 on the Japan poll for 2008 for Japan's favourite video game characters. He is also featured a lot in Nintendo type merchandising as well, making him quite well known for the most part. Not to mention that NSMB wii probably boosted his popularity even more.

Anyways with ssb4, there really won't be as much "WOW!" characters coming in as we already have the main stars in the game. For ssb4, we'll definitely be getting more sidekick characters, new characters, or those major characters who have yet to be added (ex Toad). At this point, Smash needs the remaining major characters and Toad would fit perfectly to complete the Mario team. Considering that we did not get a character for Mario in Brawl and even lost one, having Jr. thrown in as another character (cloned or not) would not be far fetched either for ssb4.