[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ChronoBound]

The one good thing about Smash 4 being announced is that I hopefully a Smash 4 forum will be opened up and all these character debates will go into specific topics pertaining to those characters. Also, as long as Sakurai is directing Smash Bros., there will be no playable Animal Crossing characters.

We are less than a week away from E3. I still don't expect Smash 4 to be announced. I am curious though about the new game announcements since it will probably have an impact on Sakurai's decisions regarding the roster.

We are now likely a year away from seeing Smash 4. Pretty exciting.

 

[Weyard]

The one good thing about Smash 4 being announced is that I hopefully a Smash 4 forum will be opened up and all these character debates will go into specific topics pertaining to those characters. Also, as long as Sakurai is directing Smash Bros., there will be no playable Animal Crossing characters.

We are less than a week away from E3. I still don't expect Smash 4 to be announced. I am curious though about the new game announcements since it will probably have an impact on Sakurai's decisions regarding the roster.

We are now likely a year away from seeing Smash 4. Pretty exciting.

Yes pretty much. All Layton and AC debates are running under the assumption that we get a new director or Sakurai changes is mind. We already know his views on "innocent" series.

 

[Arcadenik]

If we get an Animal Crossing character in Smash, I really doubt Tom Nook would get in before the Villager. The Villager is the playable protagonist and Tom Nook is one of the many supporting characters (albeit one of the more important ones). Tom Nook doesn't really do anything... he usually just have you and the other furries do his bidding. The Villager can do the same things people have been suggesting for Tom Nook anyway.

 

[Gallowglass]

The one good thing about Smash 4 being announced is that I hopefully a Smash 4 forum will be opened up and all these character debates will go into specific topics pertaining to those characters. Also, as long as Sakurai is directing Smash Bros., there will be no playable Animal Crossing characters.

We are less than a week away from E3. I still don't expect Smash 4 to be announced. I am curious though about the new game announcements since it will probably have an impact on Sakurai's decisions regarding the roster.

We are now likely a year away from seeing Smash 4. Pretty exciting.

I'm sure the new Kid Icarus game for the 3DS will have something since his team is developing it. I don't know if it's a remake like Punch-out or a whole new story.

 

[Weyard]

If we get an Animal Crossing character in Smash, I really doubt Tom Nook would get in before the Villager. The Villager is the playable protagonist and Tom Nook is one of the many supporting characters (albeit one of the more important ones). Tom Nook doesn't really do anything... he usually just have you and the other furries do his bidding. The Villager can do the same things people have been suggesting for Tom Nook anyway.

But what would you call him/her? Animal crossing kid is a bit of a hefty name isn't it? Gotta heft this thing HUURRGG- Sakurai [laughs]

 

[Arcadenik]

Have you been paying attention to the latest Kid Icarus news? It is a sequel with a story that takes place 25 years after the NES game.

I still believe that we may see Palutena and Medusa as playable characters with Eggplant Wizard as an Assist Trophy in SSB4. I wouldn't be surprised if Palutena takes Pit's Brawl Final Smash while Pit gets a new Final Smash from Uprising.

 

[Arcadenik]

But what would you call him/her? Animal crossing kid is a bit of a hefty name isn't it? Gotta heft this thing HUURRGG- Sakurai [laughs]

Either Villager or Animal Crosser would suffice. No one complained about the name "Pokemon Trainer".

 

[Weyard]

Have you been paying attention to the latest Kid Icarus news? It is a sequel with a story that takes place 25 years after the NES game.

I still believe that we may see Palutena and Medusa as playable characters with Eggplant Wizard as an Assist Trophy in SSB4. I wouldn't be surprised if Palutena takes Pit's Brawl Final Smash while Pit gets a new Final Smash from Uprising.

I'd love to see Medusa or Eggplant wizard. Pit isn't in the retro category anymore so it isn't that odd that it would have more than 1 rep.

 

[Gallowglass]

I don't know about Medusa being playable. She would be a great boss though. I'm surprise Eggplant wizards were not an assist trophy in brawl. Those things are Evil.

 

[AetherEch0s]

But how would he pick a costume, or male , or female. It would be much easier and less discriminatory to just pick Nook, K.k slider or Resetti, an actual character instead of a generic avatar.

 

[Gallowglass]

But how would he pick a costume, or male , or female. It would be much easier and less discriminatory to just pick Nook, K.k slider or Resetti, an actual character instead of a generic avatar.

Well they could just have various male and female versions in the costume changes. With SSB4 for the new system they could give full costume changes and not just color changes.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'd love to see Medusa or Eggplant wizard. Pit isn't in the retro category anymore so it isn't that odd that it would have more than 1 rep.

So true. At the time of Melee, Samus would have been classified as a retro character. Since then Metroid saw a revival with five games before Brawl... so we got Zero Suit Samus. I think that may warrant one more character like Ridley (preferably a big Ridley around the size of a giant Charizard).

I don't see no reason why this should not apply to Kid Icarus, one of Nintendo's more popular series despite being on a hiatus for 20 years? Nintendo is giving it plenty of love and attention like they did with Punch-Out!! when it was revived.

 

[Weyard]

So true. At the time of Melee, Samus would have been classified as a retro character. Since then Metroid saw a revival with five games before Brawl... so we got Zero Suit Samus. I think that may warrant one more character like Ridley (preferably a big Ridley around the size of a giant Charizard).

I don't see no reason why this should not apply to Kid Icarus, one of Nintendo's more popular series despite being on a hiatus for 20 years? Nintendo is giving it plenty of love and attention like they did with Punch-Out!! when it was revived.

I expected them to reboot it since they had a new design for him with Brawl. It was just a matter of time before they got to it.

Have you saw Medusa or Eggplant wizard in any trailers for the new Kid Icarus? I was thinking that Eggplant Wizard was rather large in one trailer I saw, might not have been it though. If it is as big as I recall, it would do good as a boss.

 

[SmashChu]

Toad will not be a playable character. bowser jr. will be the mario character they add probably. Toad will always be peach's counter lol.

Uhhhhh no. Only people born after 1994 like Bowser Jr. He is otherwise a very annoying character which is probably why Petey Piranha had more of a role in Brawl than he did.

 

[Gallowglass]

The eggplant wizard didn't seem that big and appears a common enemy. I see Death had an upgrade from common enemy to a boss. Twinbellows (the flaming two headed dog) looks awesome!

 

[BirthNote]

@BirthNote:

No one was specifically referenced in the essay, you're good. Also, I have absolutely nothing against Bowser Jr., and I'm sure he'd make a great addition to the roster. I only attacked him to show how, in some cases, Toad even beats out Bowser Jr., and how many of Bowser Jr.'s supporters use arguments against Toad that defy their own logic in supporting Jr.

I'm really hoping both get in though, that would make the series feel complete to me playable character-wise.

Thanks for clarifying.

@BirthNote i see your point, and he could easily have a unique moveset, but i doubt Sakurai would see it. Seeing him as Bowser's child, and using Sunshine as his first and most known appearance, it would either end up being a Bowser clone or a Mario clone, or both. Thats my opinion, as I said earlier.
Yeah, he has plenty of room to have a unique moveset, but so does Luigi and Ganondorf. Unless Sakurai does things differently, a lot of the new characters people are wishing for could end up being clones.

Okay. Thanks for replying. I was wondering what your opinion would be; it wasn't an attack or anything.

 

[Steam]

Uhhhhh no. Only people born after 1994 like Bowser Jr. He is otherwise a very annoying character which is probably why Petey Piranha had more of a role in Brawl than he did.

*was born before 1994*

oh. that's honestly my opinion of toad.

 

[SmashChu]

*was born before 1994*

oh. that's honestly my opinion of toad.

....you don't get it.

People DON'T LINK Bowser Jr. He's annoying. The only people who do like him are kids because their first game is either Mario 64 or Sunshine. They don't know any better.

Older people know and like Toad. He's been around since the beginning and you could even use him in Super Mario Bros 2 and Mario Kart. Seeing from how you write, I would assume you probably are a teenager now.

 

[•Col•]

Older people know and like Toad. He's been around since the beginning and you could even use him in Super Mario Bros 2 and Mario Kart. Seeing from how you write, I would assume you probably are a teenager now.

I guess I'm a part of this group... Loved using him in both SMB2 and Mario Kart, lol. I'm indifferent when it comes to Bowser Jr. though.

Would much rather prefer it if Toad was introduced to SSB4 instead of Bowser Jr.... But then again, I wouldn't even really care if there weren't any new Mario characters added at all.

 

[BirthNote]

....you don't get it.

People DON'T LINK Bowser Jr. He's annoying. The only people who do like him are kids because their first game is either Mario 64 or Sunshine. They don't know any better.

Older people know and like Toad. He's been around since the beginning and you could even use him in Super Mario Bros 2 and Mario Kart. Seeing from how you write, I would assume you probably are a teenager now.

I was born before 1994 as well, and I remember playing Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island before I got SM64. And while I had SM64, I often played SMB 3. That being said, I like Bowser Jr., and I always thought Toad was cool.

 

[Steam]

....you don't get it.

People DON'T LINK Bowser Jr. He's annoying. The only people who do like him are kids because their first game is either Mario 64 or Sunshine. They don't know any better.

Older people know and like Toad. He's been around since the beginning and you could even use him in Super Mario Bros 2 and Mario Kart. Seeing from how you write, I would assume you probably are a teenager now.

people don't link bowser jr.? oh yeah if someone linked him to this thread he'd be pissed to see you hating him.

he's annoying IYO, and everything you wrote after that is a generalization.

it also doesn't matter if the only people that like bowser jr. are little kids if there are more little kids than older fans (there are). these little kids are the future of the nintendo's revenue. It's why Lucario made it before mewtwo into brawl (and will again in smash 4)

 

[Big-Cat]

If we get an Animal Crossing character in Smash, I really doubt Tom Nook would get in before the Villager. The Villager is the playable protagonist and Tom Nook is one of the many supporting characters (albeit one of the more important ones). Tom Nook doesn't really do anything... he usually just have you and the other furries do his bidding. The Villager can do the same things people have been suggesting for Tom Nook anyway.

Tron Bonne got to be playable in a fighting game years before Megaman Volnutt. Who's to say Nintendo can't do something similar? Then again, she had her own game before MvC2 came out.

Anyway, the main problem with the Villager is that it has no set appearance or gender. If anything, this is that characters biggest barrier for inclusion. Also, Tom Nook has the option to include several tanuki (aka raccoon dog) type attacks derived from Japanese folklore.

 

[Arcadenik]

Kuma... MvC2 already had classic Mega Man. Of course they are going to put in Tron Bonne instead of replacing classic Mega Man with Mega Man Volnutt. Of course, MvC3 changed that.

Spoiler

Not complaining because I got Amaterasu, Arthur, and Haggar.

So, you are saying that the biggest barrier the Villager has is that he/she has no set appearance or gender? Okay, that's understandable... but really, that's what palette swaps/alternate costumes are for.

The Villager's main (default) gender/costume could be based on the male Villager trophy in Brawl. You know, that one with the red #1 shirt? Interestingly, he's on the front of the City Folk box art, too.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Are we really still talking about Toad?

SmashChu, I was born in 1994 (actually in June of 1994, I'm turning 17 in a couple of weeks ) I don't know if that counts as "after 1994" or what, but I do like Bowser Jr. I also don't think that everyone who was born before 1994 hates Bowser Jr. either. I'd say he has a reasonable chance, as well as Toad.

I'd expect to see either of the characters playable in SSB4, I'd even expect both... that is also a possibility.

And to those who are still using the fact that Toad is Peach's B-move against him... stop it. I doubt something that trivial and stupid would halt his inclusion, especially when Peach's Toad can be replaced by Toadsworth (who would make more sense now and also help represent the new era of Mario quite nicely).

it also doesn't matter if the only people that like bowser jr. are little kids if there are more little kids than older fans (there are). these little kids are the future of the nintendo's revenue. It's why Lucario made it before mewtwo into brawl (and will again in smash 4)

You can't really compare Pokemon to series like Mario when it comes to recentness (the whole "recentness" thing is BS in most cases anyway...) and popularity. Pokemon is always introducing new characters (by the hundreds). These new characters become the new faces of Pokemon and become pretty popular until they are once again generally replaced by the next generation. THAT is why Lucario got into SSB4 before Pichu or Mewtwo, because with a constantly changing series, it's good to represent the latest iterations. Now look at Mario... yeah, Bowser Jr. is newer and yes he appeals to younger fans more than older fans... but people seem to forget that Toad is still here and HAS BEEN here since the beginning. It's not like younger fans have no idea who Toad is, and it is very likely that many younger fans might prefer Toad to Bowser Jr.

 

[Steam]

Lucario hasn't lost popularity at all. anything from 5th gen has kinda been a fizzle. 2nd and 3rd gen didn't have anything like him either. Today's young lucario's fans are pretty much congruent to mewtwo's fans way back when... they'll stick around lol.

and yeah toad is still around and has been. they both have a chance but Bowser jr. just seems to fit better. But to be honest the mario series has plenty of representation as is especially with the DK and yoshi spinoffs being in the game.

 

[Big-Cat]

@Arc
The point I was making with Tron is that she got in way before Megaman Volnutt, the protagonist of Megaman Legends.

If you're gonna have palette swaps/alts. for the Villager, you're still stuck with different hair styles and colors and eyes. Basically, you have to worry about five different variables: hair style, hair color, eyes, shirt design, and gender. With any of the other AC characters, or any other characters for that matter, there are no variables such as these.

Anyway, just because I feel like it, I'll post a specials moveset.

B: Leaf Drop
Nook drops a leaf in front of him. Once the leaf lands, it turns into a random piece of furniture (does not vary in damage or any other properties) that can the be thrown or smashed forward like crates. In the air, this attack acts very differently. Nook drops the leaf, but he must press the B button as the leaf falls for it to turn into a piece of furniture. This is useful for zoning with Nook by keeping the opponent out with deception.

Side B: Net
Similar to Ibuki of SF's Raida, this attack can grab opponents on the ground or in the air. Nook catches with his net and extends his reach during the attack, meaning that capturing at the largest range requires the most startup. After grabbing them, Nook will the opponent and send the opponent flying. Can be used as an anti-air, a counter attack, or a combo ender. You can choose to stop the startup of the attack with B, but only before a certain point in the startup, and there is recovery on the feint.

Down B: Shovel
Acts as a launcher by digging into the ground. The normal animation for this is him putting in a pitfall, but the length of time compared to the item counterpart is much smaller. You can have up to two of these at a time and each one disappears after a set period of time. When used as a launcher, press B to cancel the rest and you can proceeded to a combo.

Up B: Fishing Rod
Casts the fishing rod upward at a 45 degree angle. Can be used as an anti-air to bring the opponent in or as a tether.

On Bowser Jr., I was born in 1990 and I like the little *******.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

and yeah toad is still around and has been. they both have a chance but Bowser jr. just seems to fit better. But to be honest the mario series has plenty of representation as is especially with the DK and yoshi spinoffs being in the game.

What I'm worried about is Jr. becoming a Bowser clone. You could say he has potential but then again so did many of the other cloned characters like Ganondorf and Toon Link. At least Toad doesn't seem to have a chance of becoming a clone.

Yeah, I'd say the only thing stopping the Mario series from getting any more characters is if the developers didn't want to over-represent it. That' most likely why we didn't see Bowser Jr. in Brawl, which surprised me as well as a lot of other people. But I don't see this as a big deal, considering Mario is Nintendo's biggest franchise anyway. Toad would complete the original main characters of the Mario series as well as representation of the "Mario Big Eight", and Bowser Jr. would perfectly represent the newer era of Mario, which deserves a recurring popular character like Bowser Jr.

After this happens, then I'd agree that the Mario series feels complete.

 

[Gallowglass]

Toad should be next on the list of Mario characters. Two were playable in Mario Wii and everyone who has played a mario game knows who he is. Also they don't have to change Peach's B move since there is more then one toad character.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think I have a solution how we can add both Bowser Jr. and Toad in SSB4 without expanding the Mario series to six slots. Give Toad his own slot and have Bowser Jr. appear as an unlockable alternate character of Bowser (select Bowser, press Z and Bowser's image turns into Bowser Jr. and vice versa).

Alternate characters may be clones or they may be semi-clones. The only alternate characters I think would plausibly work best are the following:

- Dr. Mario [no FLUDD and gets unique Final Smash involving the Viruses] (Mario)
- Bowser Jr. (Bowser)
- Donkey Kong Jr. (Donkey Kong)
- Classic Wario [new moves based on Wario Land games and maybe gains transformations based on the types of damages he endures and turns into Vampire Wario for Final Smash] (Wario)
- Toon Link [declone a bit more and gets Four Links as Final Smash] (Link)
- Toon Zelda [no Toon Sheik nor Tetra transformation so she gets an unique Down B] (Zelda)
- Fusion Suit Samus [no Zero Suit Samus after using Final Smash and she shoots Wave Beam (Side B, now Samus can run and shoot at the same time) and Ice Missiles (B, can be charged for Diffusion Missiles)] (Samus)
- Yarn Kirby [no inhale ability but uses rope instead and turns into a tank for Final Smash instead of cooking] (Kirby)
- Ness (Lucas)
- Pichu (Pikachu)
- Falco (Fox)
- Roy (Marth)

 

[Big-Cat]

The problem with semi-clones is that you have to balance those as well.

 

[augustoflores]

why does a series need to be a long standing franchise to receive more characters? why do they have to put more characters for the Mario franchise anyway? with all of the racers in fzero to choose from, they can easily make a completely new moveset for any character. I mean who gives a rat's *** if this series has more "representation" than this other series. I care more about the different styles that i get to play as. it was awesome to play as zero suit samus. i would have never thought of doing that! i have a new favorite play style in brawl.

lets say that FZERO gets captain falcon/blood falcon, samurai goroh, jody summer and black shadow... are you going to complain? yes, why? because it was "over represented" based on some bulls*** algorithm you adopted from some guy you've never even met. i would transfer falco or wolf for krystal in a heartbeat... who would i rather? im not saying.

I am 20 years old... i hate the idea of adding toad in brawl and i have distaste for bowser jr. So then i'd prefer bowser jr. over toad any day... i believe that paper mario will not be in this next smash.

if capcom gets in their megaman, then i want them to get vaati in there too. if square enix gets in their black mage, i want them to get Geno in there too. i mean what's the harm of taking him right out after black mage isn't in the next one?
i seriously do believe that sonic and snake won't be in the next one... don't argue with me as i am merely stating my place and not telling you to join me... and you cannot defect me to the light side (aka jedi lol)

if konami retains their guest choice... i would not want them to keep the same guest they had in brawl. much to the chagrin of you snake users and... basically anyone who dislikes a character getting dropped. snake has better things to do anyways... like save the world!! bring in castlevania! i wanna be able to fight there! sega? NiGHTS...
buut i'd still prefer just two guests so square enix and capcom.

 

[Jaklub]

get ready to skip this like you always do... jerks.

I skipped just because of this part

 

[augustoflores]

lol, i knew someone would do that to that comment... nice. im gonna remove that part of the sentence... you keep that quote.

 

[Arcadenik]

The problem with semi-clones is that you have to balance those as well.

No kidding.

 

[Gallowglass]

F Zero has a lot of characters that should be represented. I don't know about black shadow but Samurai Goroh and Judy would be then next on the list. I know it won't happen but I would love to see Pico in Smash.

 

[Steam]

I think I have a solution how we can add both Bowser Jr. and Toad in SSB4 without expanding the Mario series to six slots. Give Toad his own slot and have Bowser Jr. appear as an unlockable alternate character of Bowser (select Bowser, press Z and Bowser's image turns into Bowser Jr. and vice versa).

the problem is bowser junior is much much smaller than bowser...

 

[augustoflores]

i like pico cause he's fast... if i cannot win with falcon, i resort to pico. lol

 

[Steam]

i like pico cause he's fast... if i cannot win with falcon, i resort to pico. lol

there's also the part where he's the slowest machine in the game (if this is GX)

 

[augustoflores]

i wish i had GX, i talk about FZERO X... i can't find GX in any store and i refuse to buy anything from the internet... i haz no credit cards.

 

[Gallowglass]

Pico was wild and wreckless and seemed more into taking out other racers then winning. He would fit right at home in smash.