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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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vVv Rapture

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As did I. I have it on Yoshi's Island (Brawl), and that stage has a texture hack that makes everything paper-like, so it fits.

As per your list, lemme take a personal stab at it:

Toad
Paper Mario
Waluigi
Bowser Jr.
Dixie Kong
K. Rool
Ridley
Baby Mario
Peppy
Slippy

Samurai Goroh
Jeff
Tom Nook
Balloon Fighter
Meowth
Toon Zelda & Sheik

Roy
Mewtwo
Dr. Mario
Dark Samus
Little Mac


For the ones I got rid of, either I just don't think they'll fit, I don't like them, I don't think they'll make it or whatever. Waluigi just seems way too much as a spinoff character, and I don't think characters like Jeff or Meowth have enough going for them to make an appearance. I'm willing to go into specifics if anyone asks.

As for my additions, I still think Dark Samus and Little Mac are pretty viable options. Dark Samus is pretty much the third most important enemy in the Metroid series (behind Ridley and Mother Brain, obviously) and is one hell of a fighter. As for Little Mac, he has his own series (with a recent addition to said series, mind you) and is actually a fighter already. I don't see why not.
 

Arcadenik

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Why would Ganondorf get the Skyward Sword look if he isn't in it? Isn't the game supposed to happen 100 years before Ocarina of Time? :-P

Anyway, the Zelda stuff I would like to see in Smash 4 are:

- Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Tingle as playable characters
- Cuccos from Ocarina of Time as an Assist Trophy (though I would also love to see Aquamentus from Game & Watch: Zelda)
- the Spirit Train from Spirit Tracks as a stage
- an Ocarina of Time stage that wraps around Hyrule (Lost Woods, Kakariko Village, Lake Hylia, Death Mountain, and Desert Colossus)
- further declone Toon Link by giving him Roc's Cape (gliding), Four Sword (Final Smash)
- further declone Toon Link by giving Link the ability to shoot bomb arrows (pull out bomb first then use bow), shoot beams from his sword (smash forward)
- further declone Ganondorf (see my ideas I showed KumaOso a few pages ago)
- new Zelda items like the Bombchu and the Gust Jar (The Minish Cap)
 

Arcadenik

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Just found this. THIS is how a Paper Mario stage needs to be done!

http://youtu.be/7JxJLYh017s
Yes, this is exactly what I wanted for SSB4. A Paper Mario stage would be more than sufficient to represent the Paper Mario series. The hacked stage looks sweet, though...

It would be even cooler if they put a "paper effect" on the characters if you choose that stage. Sorta like flat zone. :D
That would be awesome if they did that, too! Sure, Mario won't look exactly like Paper Mario but at least he's flat as paper! :p

EDIT: Hey! The hacked characters are Bomberman, Mr. L, Dimento, and one of the Battletoads (Pimple?). That's pretty cool!
 

majora_787

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Why would Sheik get the Twilight Princess look if he isn't in it?

Anyway, the Zelda stuff I would like to see in Smash 4 are:

- Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Tingle as playable characters
- Cuccos from Ocarina of Time as an Assist Trophy (though I would also love to see Aquamentus from Game & Watch: Zelda)
- the Spirit Train from Spirit Tracks as a stage
- an Ocarina of Time stage that wraps around Hyrule (Lost Woods, Kakariko Village, Lake Hylia, Death Mountain, and Desert Colossus)
- further declone Toon Link by giving him Roc's Cape (gliding), Four Sword (Final Smash)
- further declone Toon Link by giving Link the ability to shoot bomb arrows (pull out bomb first then use bow), shoot beams from his sword (smash forward)
- further declone Ganondorf (see my ideas I showed KumaOso a few pages ago)
- new Zelda items like the Bombchu and the Gust Jar (The Minish Cap)
And the thing about the ones you took off; Everybody from Tom Nook, Onwards, was partially programmed into a smash game, or considered, but left out due to time constraints, with the exception of Balloon Fighter. He lost out to Ice Climbers.

Dark Samus and Little Mac don't fit either of the prior criteria, but I suppose they could be considered possible for the same reason Bowser Jr. could be. Sort of. Half of them DO seem excessive, but... you never know.

Also. We do NOT NEED TINGLE. Ever. However, Toon Link and Ganondorf do need to be de-cloned more. They aren't in Luigi territory quite yet.
 

BirthNote

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@ BirthNote

If Nintendo truly wanted to cut down the development time for making NSMBW, they could have put in a yellow Mario and a blue Luigi. Why bother making models for Penguin/Propeller/small Toads when you can just color swap existing models for Mario and Luigi? But of course, then people will just whine that they should have put in Wario and Waluigi instead of yellow Mario and blue Luigi. :awesome:
Here you go: http://www.destructoid.com/peach-s-dress-the-reason-for-her-not-being-playable-in-new-mario-wii-152201.phtml

My favorite part is this from Miyamoto himself: "Originally, I thought it would be nice if we could have Princess Peach in there as a playable character, but in fact, the Toad characters have a physical that's a little bit closer to Mario and Luigi. In particular, if we had one character out of the four that wore a dress, we would have to have special processing and programming to handle how the skirt is handled within the gameplay."

Perhaps a Yellario and Bluigi would be a bit too lazy...:awesome:

@ Shortiecanbrawl

The only time Bowser Jr. was really important was in Super Mario Sunshine but afterwards? Bowser Jr.'s main purpose in the main games is as a mini-boss (in the 2D games) or as a boss (in the 3D games). The only time Bowser Jr. actually fought Mario was in NSMB but the rest? He's always inside a mech... effectively making the mechs the real mini-bosses Mario fight while Bowser Jr. does nothing. It is like he is just there to provide dialogue since the mechs (the real mini-bosses and bosses) apparently aren't programmed to speak for themselves. Really, saying Bowser Jr. is important in the games is like saying Megaleg and Megahammer are important.

Super Mario Sunshine - kidnapped Peach as Shadow Mario, gets to fight Mario inside Mecha-Bowser, never to be seen again until the final boss fight where he serves as distraction (siccing Bullet Bills at Mario while Mario tries to destroy Bowser's pool)

New Super Mario Bros. - kidnapped Peach as himself, the only time he ever fought Mario in person and he was only there as Boom Boom expy (he was basically a glorified Boom Boom)

Super Mario Galaxy - not involved in stealing Power Stars nor the kidnapping of Peach, gets to fight Mario inside Megaleg and Airship, and sics King Kaliente at Mario (basically serving as the voice of these bosses)

New Super Mario Bros. Wii - involved in the kidnapping of Peach with the help of the Koopalings, gets to fight Mario inside his Koopa Clown Car
while the Koopalings get to fight Mario in person

Super Mario Galaxy 2 - not involved in stealing Power Stars nor the kidnapping of Peach, gets to fight Mario inside Megahammer and Boomsday Machine, and sics Gobblegut at Mario (again, serving as the voice of these bosses)

Both Toad and Bowser Jr. are just there. At least the Toad species contributed more to the series by being playable in two of them and Toad is being original, spawning two rip-offs (Toadsworth and Toadette). Bowser Jr. is just a rip-off of Bowser and Baby Bowser (same reason why I find Waluigi a rip-off of Wario and Luigi). That, and Toad is more iconic and popular than Bowser Jr. will ever dream of being. Yay for seniority! :bee:

Also, Bowser Jr. is nothing more than Baby Bowser with a bib. This reminds me of that Simpsons episode where fangirls think that the Malibu Stacy doll with a hat is new and unique when it is just a plain old hatless Malibu Stacy doll (which they most likely already own) but with a new hat while one girl picked the all-new and original Lisa Lionheart doll.
I wish you directed that at me as well, actually. I'm cool with Toad being in the game. He has potential, and I've seen MANY good ideas about him from the people in this thread--you might be one of them, but I don't remember all the usernames. However, I'm noticing that people are validating Toad by invalidating Bowser Jr. Many are saying that Jr.'s role decreased from Sunshine, so let me ask you all this: How can you expand Jr.'s role without pushing Bowser off to the side? Wasn't Bowser a behind-the-scenes foe in Sunshine? You fight Jr. 10 times in NSMB DS and Bowser gets fought less than 4. If that continued, wouldn't some fans start to complain about the eighth child overtaking the father in 3D platformers? The "plot" of Mario has been the same and it doesn't plan on changing: Peach gets kidnapped and Bowser's the last master. Jr.'s a right hand man.

Look, I don't know how this "Jr.'s a nobody and Toad is omnipresent" thing got started. I would like to know why it has, and why many are constantly badmouthing Jr. to validate Toad. When I made that post about Bowser Jr. being possible, I SAID NOTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT TOAD. Can't you guys just validate the mushroom without attacking the turtle?

And on a side note, Arcadenik, how can you imply that Nintendo isn't being lazy about 2 playable Toads when "Bowser Jr. is nothing more than Baby Bowser with a bib"?

EDIT:@Spydr Enzo

I would like to counter the...Diddy and Dixie were made to be companion characters (though not strictly for those two) thing by saying that DK, Diddy and Dixie all have their own game(s). This makes it clear that they're not solely companion Kongs by showing that they can have their own adventures. Diddy's got Diddy's Kong Quest and Diddy Kong Racing, while Dixie's got Dixie Kong's Double Trouble.

I'm basically at the point where I agree to disagree and move on.
 

Shorts

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Arcadenik just brought up cloning and De-Cloning. I would like to see characters either become fully decloned, or revert back to 100% clones that possibly share the same select slot. Just with different sound effects. I'm tired of half Ash Ketchumed characters that are like 3/4's a clone. Falco, Wolf, Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Lucas all need to take a side with becoming fully Decloned, or Alt. Costume/character. I would love to see all of them become their own character, but if some couldn't be, then this is how I would choose it.

De-Cloned:
Ganondorf
Wolf
Toon Link

100% Clones:
Falco (Sorry)
Lucas (Like I said. . . sorry)
Pichu (I figure why not throw in some fan service?)

Note that these characters would save time that could be spent on fully unique characters. I don't see a reason for having slight clones. It just takes up precious time. These characters would be different from costumes as well. They would have seperate sound effects and in pichu's case, would be slightly smaller.
 

vVv Rapture

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Dark Samus and Little Mac don't fit either of the prior criteria, but I suppose they could be considered possible for the same reason Bowser Jr. could be. Sort of. Half of them DO seem excessive, but... you never know.
Well they both are trophies...and rather important to the series they are in. I wouldn't count them out entirely.
 

majora_787

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Well they both are trophies...and rather important to the series they are in. I wouldn't count them out entirely.
I wasn't counting them out, they just didn't meet the criteria of the list I put up. xD

Except for D-Samus. I consider D-Samus possible ONLY if the developers are lazy enough to not even ATTEMPT Ridley. Which they should. Ridley > Dark Samus in popularity, relevance, and rights to a roster space.

Falco, Lucas, and Wolf aren't clones. I don't know why people insist that. ._. If Falco and Lucas got their own specials, they'd be PRETTY far from being clones, and Wolf is already pretty far from being a clone.

But Ganondorf and Toon Link need de-cloning, because they're too close for comfort to Falcon and Link.
 

Zap tackle

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I wish you directed that at me as well, actually. I'm cool with Toad being in the game. He has potential, and I've seen MANY good ideas about him from the people in this thread--you might be one of them, but I don't remember all the usernames. However, I'm noticing that people are validating Toad by invalidating Bowser Jr. Many are saying that Jr.'s role decreased from Sunshine, so let me ask you all this: How can you expand Jr.'s role without pushing Bowser off to the side? Wasn't Bowser a behind-the-scenes foe in Sunshine? You fight Jr. 10 times in NSMB DS and Bowser gets fought less than 4. If that continued, wouldn't some fans start to complain about the eighth child overtaking the father in 3D platformers? The "plot" of Mario has been the same and it doesn't plan on changing: Peach gets kidnapped and Bowser's the last master. Jr.'s a right hand man.

Look, I don't know how this "Jr.'s a nobody and Toad is omnipresent" thing got started. I would like to know why it has, and why many are constantly badmouthing Jr. to validate Toad. When I made that post about Bowser Jr. being possible, I SAID NOTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT TOAD. Can't you guys just validate the mushroom without attacking the turtle?

And on a side note, Arcadenik, how can you imply that Nintendo isn't being lazy about 2 playable Toads when "Bowser Jr. is nothing more than Baby Bowser with a bib"?
It's not a matter of bashing Bowser Jr. as I like the character too; however, with the constant amount of people wanting Jr. and calling Toad as worthless was what had caused us Toad fans to scratch Jr. off the list. Back in the days while we waited for Brawl, many people expected Jr. to be in it and many said that Toad had no chance despite his constant appearances within the Mario series. Then we've got people saying that Toad can't fight as an excuse, so that Jr. can make it into the game. It's funny to see how many people mentioned the only unique thing about Jr. back in their moveset posts -- his paintbrush.

In short, I wouldn't mind seeing both TOAD and BOWSER JR. in ssb4; however, if one was to come first, I'd hope that it would be Toad as he appeared first and made a larger impact on the series than the latter. Anyways BirthNote, if I ever did bash Jr., I do apologize; however, it's with all this Toad hate that I've been seeing around (people saying Toad is only popular on this boards -_-) that might have made me attack Jr.
 

vVv Rapture

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I wasn't counting them out, they just didn't meet the criteria of the list I put up. xD

Except for D-Samus. I consider D-Samus possible ONLY if the developers are lazy enough to not even ATTEMPT Ridley. Which they should. Ridley > Dark Samus in popularity, relevance, and rights to a roster space.
Dark Samus and Ridley should both be added, but Ridley over Dark Samus if only one is added. Both of them are extremely wicked characters (and hopefully they go with the Corruption form of DS, not the Echoes form) and both would be really unique fighters, blah blah blah. In short, both would be good additions. Samus and DS really aren't much alike at all besides some DNA and a name.
 

Arcadenik

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@ BirthNote

Well, the way I see it. Toad is basically the Anonymous of the Mario series. His face is literally everywhere. Maybe that's why people say Toad is omnipresent? I mean, the setting takes place in the Mushroom Kingdom and its capital is Toad Town and the whole world is populated with Toads. The Toad species is one of two most important generic species in the series (the other is the Yoshi species). Notice how Toads and Yoshis are the only generic species to be playable in main games? Notice how none of the other generic species like Goombas, Koopas, Shy Guys, etc. are never playable in the main games? To me, Toad is a classic Nintendo character, deeply ingrained into the Nintendo history and the Mario mythos. Like the others said, Toad has been around since the beginning of the Mario series and the beginning of Nintendo's foray into the video game industry, especially the NES.

@ Shortiecanbrawl

Ness and Lucas are not 100% clones. Their moves work very differently from each other. It is just that some of their moves share the same name but they function differently from each other.

I also don't like your reasoning for adding clones. You are basically suggesting that the developers should add more clones to bring more characters to the roster because it is faster and easier to do than taking the time and effort to make more unique characters.
 

BirthNote

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Okay. Thank you Zap tackle and Arcadenik for clearing that up and validating Toad (without insulting another guy) respectively. Yes, I notice how the 2 most popular species are the Toads and Yoshis. I don't have a problem with Toad being playable, and I don't mind moving on either.
 

Arcadenik

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Here you go: http://www.destructoid.com/peach-s-dress-the-reason-for-her-not-being-playable-in-new-mario-wii-152201.phtml

My favorite part is this from Miyamoto himself: "Originally, I thought it would be nice if we could have Princess Peach in there as a playable character, but in fact, the Toad characters have a physical that's a little bit closer to Mario and Luigi. In particular, if we had one character out of the four that wore a dress, we would have to have special processing and programming to handle how the skirt is handled within the gameplay."

Perhaps a Yellario and Bluigi would be a bit too lazy...:awesome:
Hmm... it is interesting how Miyamoto worded that. It sounds almost as if he is implying that he originally planned for NSMBWii to have Mario, Luigi, Toad, and Peach playable. Notice how he said "if we had one character out of the four that wore a dress..." I guess he decided to replace Peach with a second Toad instead of putting the time and effort to make Peach playable.

How awesome would NSMBWii would have been if we had the whole cast of SMB2 playable again, this time... all at once!?
 

Shorts

Zef Side
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@ BirthNote

@ Shortiecanbrawl

Ness and Lucas are not 100% clones. Their moves work very differently from each other. It is just that some of their moves share the same name but they function differently from each other.

I also don't like your reasoning for adding clones. You are basically suggesting that the developers should add more clones to bring more characters to the roster because it is faster and easier to do than taking the time and effort to make more unique characters.
You've got my reasoning backwards. I figure instead of wasting time making half-clones, they can focus on the rest of the cast, and then just add in the clone swap for the right characters. Fox having Falco as a clone swap, and Ness having Lucas as a clone swap. I'm saying keep these characters to keep fans happy, but focus on the characters that aren't clones and make some unqiue characters. The Idea of half clones is just silly, no one is happy with that. They've done this in the tekken series I recall. You can play as Panda even when you're Kuma, same goes for this Jamaicain girl. She had a swap with a man. I know the clones play different, but the smash moves need to changes and Lucas is still cloney.
 

P.I.E.

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I think I'll be happy with the next game so long as sakurai doesn't give ness a poor grab release animation, gives him new textures, and makes his uthrow a bit more flashy.
 

Arcadenik

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@ majora_787

The reason Sheik got the Twilight Princess treatment is because Sakurai got ahold of the Twilight Princess concept art featuring Sheik (she was originally planned to be in Twilight Princess but got scrapped out for some reason). Unless Sakurai gets ahold of the Skyward Sword concept art featuring Ganondorf even though he may not be in it, he isn't getting the Skyward Sword makeover.

Sure, we don't need Tingle but he would be a fun addition. He could be the Balloon Fighter of Smash - floating around with his balloon doing his own version of Jigglypuff's Wall of Pain - in addition to dropping bombs like a bomber plane and firing Rupees like a machine gun (he did that against the final boss in his own game!). And he wouldn't even have to represent the Zelda series when he can just represent his own series.
 

Soniccuz

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Hmm... it is interesting how Miyamoto worded that. It sounds almost as if he is implying that he originally planned for NSMBWii to have Mario, Luigi, Toad, and Peach playable. Notice how he said "if we had one character out of the four that wore a dress..." I guess he decided to replace Peach with a second Toad instead of putting the time and effort to make Peach playable.

How awesome would NSMBWii would have been if we had the whole cast of SMB2 playable again, this time... all at once!?

Yeah I also got that impression. It would of rounded out the cast, as it is the Mario's are almost always picked over the toads.
 

lordvaati

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an update to my final wishist for SSB4

Mario series:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Boweser Jr.
Paper Mario


Wario Series:
Wario
Captain Syrup

Yoshi Series:
Yoshi

DK Series:
Donkey Kong
Diddy/Dixie Kong
K.Rool

Zelda Series:
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondoef
Majora
Midna

F-Zero Series
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Starfox series:
Fox McCloud
Falco Lombardi
Krystal

Metroid Series:
Samus/ZSS
Ridley

Kirby Series:
Kirby
King DeDede
Meta Knight
Prince Fluff

Mother Series
Lucas
Masked Man

Fire Emblem series:
Marth
The Black Knight
Michaiah

Pokemon Series:
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Meowth

Other Series:
Ice Climbers
Olimar
Pit
Mr. game & Watch
R.O.B
Andy
Isaac
Little Mac
"The Hero"

3rd Party Chracters:
Snake(Konami)
Sonic(Sega)
Mega man(Capcom)
Lloyd irving(Namco)

Assist Tropies:
Wanda(Mario &Wario)
Fawful(Mario & Luigi)
Starman(Mother)
Alexandra Rovias(eternal Darkness)
Kiddie Kong(Donkey Kong Country)
Ashley(Warioware)
Cubivore(Cubivore)
Ninian & Nils(Fire Emblem)
Pac-Man(Pac-Man)
Roll( Mega Man)
Goron(Zelda)
Stanley(Donkey kong 3)
Birdo(Mario)
Boo(Mario)
Jody Summer(F-Zero)
Kamek(Yoshi)

New techniques & modes:
-new single control style
-L-cancellable specials
-Jump Saving
-more hitstun than Brawl, but less than Melee
-Stickers in Vs. Mode
-return of Board the platforms
-Beat Up sandBag Minigame
-new story mode
-Tag Mode in Vs.
for more info about my ideas, watch these vids:
Part 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmjTPuDdJC0

Part 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQuoKydYOMs&feature=related

so what do you guys think?
 

majora_787

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You're cutting Wolf for KRYSTAL? I'm sorry, I can't let you do that...

ANYWAY I feel like I've been living under a rock. I JUST heard about Project Cafe, and this makes me oh-so-hopeful for Smash Bros. With any luck, we'll get our "SSB4 is entering development" deal this year. :3 Or, even better yet? Launch title. Nah, prolly not THAT lucky...
 

majora_787

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Better than Falco AND WOLF, apparently. Why don't we just cut Fox too? The death of Starfox is clearly more important than any other character in the series. /sarcasm

Anyway. I REALLY HOPE that we get a Smash 4 announcement soon, especially since we're getting a new platform. xD A "it's entering development" is all we need for the fun to start flying like flaming rocks from the sky. =P
 

Soniccuz

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The Masked Man, him I want to see in brawl. I'm thinking he'd be pretty fun to play as.

Though his design makes me think of meta knight in some ways. Both being winged sword fighters.
 

Shorts

Zef Side
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Yes, because a character who many consider to have ruined the Starfox series is definitely better than Fox's second in command.
/sarcasm
If you think that then you're blaming bad game making decisions on a freaking character. It's not her fault they decided Star Fox Adventure was terrible. Besides, her story is about 800000000x more in-depth then Falco's.
 

BlueSuperSonic1

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Yes, but Falco's been in Starfox since the series started and is Fox's second in command. In addition, Falco has already been in 2 Smash Bros. games, so it would be stupid if they took him out. Even if Krystal gets in I wouldn't want to her to replace any of the existing Star Fox characters in Smash.
 

Shorts

Zef Side
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Yes, but Falco's been in Starfox since the series started and is Fox's second in command. In addition, Falco has already been in 2 Smash Bros. games, so it would be stupid if they took him out. Even if Krystal gets in I wouldn't want to her to replace any of the existing Star Fox characters in Smash.
Agreed, but IMO when it comes to most important characters it goes Fox, then Wolf, then Krystal, then Falco. I think that Falco being in Two more games isn't THAT big of a deal. That's only 40% more games then Krystal.
 

lordvaati

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And she probably won't.
I think she could. with Fox, he could still be pretty much the same as he was in all the other games with Landmaster as a FS. Falco is being "Luigified"- becoming less and less of a clone in each game- and his FS he could jump in his arwing and take Potshots from a first person perspective similar to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRJbvfzGu08&feature=related

Krystal would have a more close rnged mindset compared to the other 2, and her FS could have her riding the Pterodactl from the SFA intro.
 

BirthNote

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@Shortie
Falco's pretty important--more than Wolf actually. He's always challenging Fox over leadership--this reinforces that Fox is in charge and that he must always stay on top of his game. Slippy plays a similar role by being a n00b; his screwup moments give Fox the chance to be a hero.

Wolf on the other hand...seems to be a jealous canine who let a sleezy pig fill his head with BS. I don't know where to put Krystal when it comes to importance unfortunately.

:phone:
 

Starphoenix

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Okay, so I'm finally doing my own roster speculation. However, I'm doing something different than most. My selections are being made based upon roster symmetry. This isn't something many people consider when discussing characters, and it plays an important role. What do I mean by "symmetry"? Simple, the roster is designed and arranged in a way where each "bracket" (row) ties into a series or theme.

Smash 64 and Melee arranged their brackets horizontally, while Brawl switched to a vertical arrangement. In my opinion horizontal is the best method as it makes the screen appear less organized, in ways adding a dynamic element to selecting characters. Hard to explain but hopefully you catch on.

So let me get started by presenting my initial starting roster.



Notice the available starters are roughly equal to that of Brawl's. Technically five more boxes could have been added into the middle, achieving a better starting selection. But unlockables are fun and since this is my graph I can do however I please.

To those who are less then astute, Jigglypuff and Falco are not unlockable this time around. But somebody else is missing... Hmm...

The only newcomer playable from the start is Mii. As Mii would more than likely have some level of customization that would be better to display than hide.

So now let me move onto my final roster...



Ta-dah! Since Melee, each bracket has consisted of nine boxes. Brawl basically added another row while filling up the two gaps left in Melee. I simply added another row given the present pattern. The unlockables are arranged along the border of the starting roster with a hidden vertical column expanding in the middle. 50 characters total including Zero Suit Samus, Sheik, and the three Pokémon Trainer Pokémon. 10 new characters, Metwo returns, and most everyone from Brawl returns minus Lucario.

The theme's are as follows:

1: Mario - Mario Spin Off
2: Donkey Kong - Earthbound - Legend of Zelda
3: Pokémon - "Fantasy" (Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Golden Sun)
4: "Space" (Kirby, Star Fox, Pikmin, Metroid)
5: Returning guests - Retro - System - New Guests

I can already hear the snarls of many for whom I did or did not select. So let me break down my reasonings for you.

Q: Why two Mario characters?
A: In Melee we had 5 Mario characters, Brawl lost one in Dr. Mario. Given the fact that we should still have 5 all I'm really doing is adding one more. Additionally the Mario group was lacking and to keep things in line it required two spaces to make up the difference. Typically Donkey Kong would have fallen in the "Mario Spin Offs" category alongside Yoshi and Wario, but moving them into the first row would isolate King. K Rool. Since it is extremely unlikely we won't get another Mario representative I made the choice I did. The Mario characters are a little interchangeable. I happen to feel Paper Mario is unique enough to not be a clone and despite all the complaints about Toad he is still a recognizable face. There isn't one set Pikachu or Jigglypuff yet we have them? What makes Toad any different?

Q: Why is Earthbound in such a funny place?
A: Earthbound has always been difficult to place. In Melee ,Ness was between Fox and Ice Climbers. In Brawl both Ness and Lucas were underneath the Fire Emblem characters. Although at least with Fire Emblem you have a stretch in saying they are both RPG's (using the term loosely). So in some ways I guess it has always been the whipping boy of symmetry? Isn't that the story of Earthbound and it's fans in general? lol

Q: Who is Victini? And why did you select it?
A: Victini is one of the latest legendaries from Pokèmon Black/White.

Game Freak has made it so every game has a "promotional" Pokémon in it. Zoroark hasn't really taken off like earlier speculation thought, while Victini is becoming the break out star. The one that is popular at the time is usually derivative of the latest movie. With it's movie set to be released soon and development of another Smash probably not to far out from now I have a feeling everyone is looking at the Generation 5 representative. Just what I wanted, another rodent...

Q: Only three new series?
A: Look at the series added in Melee; they were Fire Emblem, Ice Climber, and Game and Watch. Look at Brawl; discounting the third parties we had Pikmin, Kid Icarus, R.O.B, and WarioWare. There aren't many big series to choose from anymore, Sakurai has even admitted such. Golden Sun, Punch Out, and the Mii's are the most likely to be included next. Maybe Starfy could slip in there, but it would mean removing one of the third party characters.

Q: Third party characters?
A: This is the big iffy here. There are several different scenarios that could happen.

1: We don't have anymore 3rd party characters - So now I would have 4 empty spaces that need filling. Which means I could fit another series or two along the bottom. Move Isaac to the bottom row and substitute his space for Roy. Add Starfy and another retro character like Takamaru. So then the bottom would become new series - retro - system.
2: Only have two or three - Only thing that would happen is the bottom bracket would be arranged differently. If it were three they'd be in the middle of the last bracket, if two it'd stay symmetrical on the sides.

Q: Slime?!
A: Yes, the mascot of the Dragon Quest series. I have already discussed this topic to death so I'll spare the lecture this time. It is probably the most Nintendo friendly series right now and given Nintendo's pledge to expand this series in the West it is likely this scenario could happen. To the delight of millions of Japanese men, women and children.

Q: What the heck is with Captain Falcon?
A: He was the puzzle piece that didn't quite fit... This isn't supposed to be perfect. Ok?

Q: Why weren't more cut?
A: There isn't much reason to. When you have so few choices already why remove an established character with people who enjoy using that character? The only sacrifice here is Lucario, send your hate mail to Victini, not I.


So all in all I think this is more likely of what we will see. Please discuss or make a comment.
 

WoodyWiggins

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Mewtwo and Sonic will probably make trophy appearances, that's all.
BUT. . .
If Sonic makes it in, I'm hoping that C.Sonic and M. Sonic are two different characters (kinda like Mario and Dr. Mario). C. Sonic v. M. Sonic would be epic. Tails should get in, and Knuckles as well. Knuckles is my dude.
Mewtwo seems old compared to all of the other generations of Pokemon out now. Which is a shame 'cause Mewtwo is timeless, imo.
 

Big-Cat

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Because how recent a character is matters more than their playstyle.
 

ryuu seika

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I think I like StarPhoenix's roster. I can't say I'm actively pleased by any of the newcomers besides Miis, Megaman and the Mario ones but it seems both reasonable and realistic to me. He definitely has the right idea with unlockables IMO. The only thing I'm really not sure on is the new position of Kirby, shunted off to the side.
 

WoodyWiggins

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Because how recent a character is matters more than their playstyle.
. . . yeah kinda. Isn't that why Lucario is in Brawl?

One recent feature I could see being added to SSB4 is air dashing. Air dashing seems almost mandatory nowadays. This would help bring balance between flying and non-flying characters. Especially if that air dash was directional.
 

Starphoenix

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I think I like StarPhoenix's roster. I can't say I'm actively pleased by any of the newcomers besides Miis, Megaman and the Mario ones but it seems both reasonable and realistic to me. He definitely has the right idea with unlockables IMO. The only thing I'm really not sure on is the new position of Kirby, shunted off to the side.
I could have swapped the Star Fox character's placements with the Kirby characters. King DDD and Wolf's unlockable position would atlernatr. The reasoning behind Kirby's placement is due in the starting roster, I put the more prominent series in each bracket to the right. Only Zelda characters were the exception, but that is due to DK needing to flow from the Mario spin off group.
 

Big-Cat

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. . . yeah kinda. Isn't that why Lucario is in Brawl?
Maybe. Maybe not. They only things Sakurai said that a character needs to get in is that it's someone people will want to play and someone that will bring a new playstyle with them. Lucario satisfies both these requirements.

Air dashes would be nice. It'd be a way to have some aerial emphasis while keeping the game not floaty.

I have some SmashChu-attracting ideas to present right now.

As it is right now, and in Melee, traditional combos don't really exist. Almost all of the Smash combos are predominantly juggles and are nothing like most combos in a 2D fighter. As such, I'm suggesting this:

1. Increase the number of attack buttons from one to three, light, medium, heavy. This lets you have a Guilty Gear/Marvel/BlazBlue combo system where you basically dial your combos in. This allows ground combos that don't involve jumping for a change.
2. Keep specials as they are, but now include three versions of specials. For example, you'll get different versions of Samus' missles with B+A, B+X and B+Y.
3. Jump is now just at the control stick.
4. Most of the normals in previous Smash games are now moved to the different buttons. Here's a basic format:

The control stick format is this with 5 being the neutral position
789
456
123

5A - A
6A - FTilt
2A - DTilt
5X - Utilt
6X - FSmash
2X - DSmash
5Y - New Attack
6Y - USmash
2Y - New Tripping Attack

For in the air:
j.A - NAir
j.X - Fair
j.Y - UAir
j.2Y - Dair

Again, this is to bring more of a ground game, and this under the idea the series gets a revamp. So for a quick recap on controls:

A, X, Y - Light, Medium, and Heavy attacks.
B - Specials
L - Shield
R - Final Smash

So what do you think?
 

augustoflores

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aww man! i use the R button to shield! well, there's always custom button mapping!
... wtf!? new tripping attack? not sure if i like that or dislike the fact that there is tripping in the next game...
i would like to see Ice Climbers use a ice floor attack for slipping, and since ice climbers have cleats and mewtwo floats, they are all unaffected.

ryuu, you lost more respect from me. u.u

EDIT: i also don't want the Gamecube control to have sockets in the next system... it was cool using it again, but it must die already.
 

Big-Cat

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I thought about it, but I thought it was implied that the controls could be customized.

And everyone's problem has just been that random tripping exists. I don't think anything's wrong with everyone getting some sort of tripping attack.
 
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